Vaccine Mandate - September 30th

I am in R&D and you wouldn’t believe the amount of colleagues who are scrambling to interview and get out. Turns out when you do clinical trials for a living for decades, you know you shouldn’t take something that had a 5.5-6 month long clinical trial with no follow up safety studies. Many AEs and SAEs are not being reported by Doctor’s offices, due to medical arrogance or not knowing how to or if they should. An IQVIA employee leaked out that they and Moderna are sitting on 300K+ of unreported AEs from Jan-March alone. I was on a call earlier this week where employees were talking about that leak.

Even the vaccinated are trying to get out and find a remote job before they are scooped up when more companies push mandates. We all know this is headed for Boosters. If you don’t take the Booster, you’re out.
 






I am in R&D and you wouldn’t believe the amount of colleagues who are scrambling to interview and get out. Turns out when you do clinical trials for a living for decades, you know you shouldn’t take something that had a 5.5-6 month long clinical trial with no follow up safety studies. Many AEs and SAEs are not being reported by Doctor’s offices, due to medical arrogance or not knowing how to or if they should. An IQVIA employee leaked out that they and Moderna are sitting on 300K+ of unreported AEs from Jan-March alone. I was on a call earlier this week where employees were talking about that leak.

Even the vaccinated are trying to get out and find a remote job before they are scooped up when more companies push mandates. We all know this is headed for Boosters. If you don’t take the Booster, you’re out.


Most healthcare, biotech, and pharma companies are starting to mandate the vaccine. For our field/customer facing folks the health systems, vendor credentialing companies and academic centers are already mandating the vaccine. It's not unlike needing a TB test, MMR titters, and often times a flu shot to be certified by the vendor credentialing companies to gain access to a facility.

Over 4.5 Billion people have received one of the three vaccines with little to know unexpected or untoward AR's. That's a pretty big sample size and please save the long term follow up...that will happen with the vaccines...just like it does with the any new drug. Also as a scientific and medical community we know how to create vaccines. The Cutter and Simian issues with the Polio vaccine are over 70 years ago and those manufacturing issue have been solved for 68 years ago. So this whole notion that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease is utter nonsense. Next the longterm follow up clock typically does not start until the drug is approved and commercially available. Please save the FIH Phase 1/2 dose finding studies as being akin to longer term follow up. Sample size, unblinding, max/min doses all would confound any sort of 'longer term follow up' so just like the drugs that are approved everyday very few have longterm follow up pre approval and commercializaion. The vaccines will go through the same pharmacovigilance that all drugs go through post market approval. These are all things you should know so my guess is if are in R&D (or not) which is an extremely vague job description, but my guess is you are not a bench scientist but rather on the admin side where you know a little bit about few things but not a lot about anything. All three vaccines have been proven to be safe and effective for the vast majority of people.

Like any other drug there are unwanted AR's and some can be severe and deadly...just like most other drugs that get approved everyday...fortunately those severe reactions and deaths are extremely rare.

So please stop with your anti-science narrative under the guise of being in R&D...you sound foolish.
 






Most healthcare, biotech, and pharma companies are starting to mandate the vaccine. For our field/customer facing folks the health systems, vendor credentialing companies and academic centers are already mandating the vaccine. It's not unlike needing a TB test, MMR titters, and often times a flu shot to be certified by the vendor credentialing companies to gain access to a facility.

Over 4.5 Billion people have received one of the three vaccines with little to know unexpected or untoward AR's. That's a pretty big sample size and please save the long term follow up...that will happen with the vaccines...just like it does with the any new drug. Also as a scientific and medical community we know how to create vaccines. The Cutter and Simian issues with the Polio vaccine are over 70 years ago and those manufacturing issue have been solved for 68 years ago. So this whole notion that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease is utter nonsense. Next the longterm follow up clock typically does not start until the drug is approved and commercially available. Please save the FIH Phase 1/2 dose finding studies as being akin to longer term follow up. Sample size, unblinding, max/min doses all would confound any sort of 'longer term follow up' so just like the drugs that are approved everyday very few have longterm follow up pre approval and commercializaion. The vaccines will go through the same pharmacovigilance that all drugs go through post market approval. These are all things you should know so my guess is if are in R&D (or not) which is an extremely vague job description, but my guess is you are not a bench scientist but rather on the admin side where you know a little bit about few things but not a lot about anything. All three vaccines have been proven to be safe and effective for the vast majority of people.

Like any other drug there are unwanted AR's and some can be severe and deadly...just like most other drugs that get approved everyday...fortunately those severe reactions and deaths are extremely rare.

So please stop with your anti-science narrative under the guise of being in R&D...you sound foolish.

The person in R&D made a statement that people are looking to leave, both unvaccinated and vaccinated, due to the mandate. The mandate means vaccination now and booster doses shortly thereafter with more to follow. Your huffy “on the spectrum-ish” response is irreverent and doesn’t change that fact. You are forcing people to take a vaccine based on a newer platform that has failed repeatedly in Phase 2 until they could skate by with a clinical trial that lasted a handful of months. If people do not feel comfortable taking an mRNA vaccine or non-stop boosters, they will leave.

You cannot tell us what the long term impact will be for people’s health and that is a 100% fact that you absolutely cannot deny. Any attempt to do so shows what smug dishonesty we’re dealing with here with people like you.
 












The person in R&D made a statement that people are looking to leave, both unvaccinated and vaccinated, due to the mandate. The mandate means vaccination now and booster doses shortly thereafter with more to follow. Your huffy “on the spectrum-ish” response is irreverent and doesn’t change that fact. You are forcing people to take a vaccine based on a newer platform that has failed repeatedly in Phase 2 until they could skate by with a clinical trial that lasted a handful of months. If people do not feel comfortable taking an mRNA vaccine or non-stop boosters, they will leave.

You cannot tell us what the long term impact will be for people’s health and that is a 100% fact that you absolutely cannot deny. Any attempt to do so shows what smug dishonesty we’re dealing with here with people like you.

The platform is not new. We starting researching and developing Covid vaccines back in 2002 for SARS-CoV-1 so the heavy lifting was already done. Keep propagating your false narrative, as it doesn’t change the fact that 4.5 billion people have received the vaccine and people are not dropping like flies.

Furthermore, it’s always doomsday here…isn’t it? Every department is always having a ‘mass exodus’. It really is a wonder we have any employees at all based on the ‘flood of talent’ that is always said to be leaving…yet here we are.

Lastly, leave if you want, but before you do you may want to check around SSF and the East Bay for biotechs that are NOT mandating the vaccine…good luck… as many already have instituted the policy and many more are following suit.
 






The person in R&D made a statement that people are looking to leave, both unvaccinated and vaccinated, due to the mandate. The mandate means vaccination now and booster doses shortly thereafter with more to follow. Your huffy “on the spectrum-ish” response is irreverent and doesn’t change that fact. You are forcing people to take a vaccine based on a newer platform that has failed repeatedly in Phase 2 until they could skate by with a clinical trial that lasted a handful of months. If people do not feel comfortable taking an mRNA vaccine or non-stop boosters, they will leave.

You cannot tell us what the long term impact will be for people’s health and that is a 100% fact that you absolutely cannot deny. Any attempt to do so shows what smug dishonesty we’re dealing with here with people like you.


Stop...this is just nonsense. No one is forcing anyone. It is a requirement to work. Just like MMR is required for most public schools. If you do not want to get the vaccine then find a company where you do not need one. Good luck with that in the Bay Area btw. Non-stop boosters"??? Again not how vaccines work. Sure there may be a booster, perhaps every six months to a year until the virus is eradicated...guessing you do not know the history of small pox?

mRNA as no bearing one way or the other on long term impact...clearly you are not a scientist. We know exactly the long term impact of vaccines from a safety and efficacy standpoint. What virus we are inoculating against is irrelevant and does not change the long term understanding of how vaccines work with your immune system. You clearly have no idea how vaccines are researched, developed or manufactured...just for reference the 'flu shot' changes every year based on our best predictions of what strain will be most prevalent and we don't see people 10 years after their flu shot mysteriously dropping dead.

Lastly it's pretty funny what relative risk people are willing and unwilling to take. We have a morbid obesity issue in our country and preventable heart disease will kill more people than most other causalities yet people keep living unhealthy lifestyles with little concern of the 'long term' effects. Liver cancer is on the rise due to NASH/NAFLD yet people are not changing their diets or lifestyle to decrease that risk. People drive well over the speed limit or DUI risking their life and the lives of others yet they won't take the limited risk of taking a vaccine? Look up top causes of death in the US...you will not find vaccines or drug related deaths in the top 10 of any list.
 












Hi, I worked in vaccine sales for another company for over a decade. Perhaps I can point out a few things that will help this discussion.

A vaccine is supposed to help your body make antibodies. Antibodies to the specific antigen that you are exposed to. It’s quite simple. So with all the standard recommended pediatric and adult vaccines, when you get a shot - you’re getting the antigen, whether it is an inactivated virus or small part of the virus/bacteria. Your body then responds by developing antibodies, and the antibodies protect you from future infection.

Now with the mRNA vaccine, the distinction is that you’re not getting the antigen in the shot, you’re getting the instructions for making the antigen. And then you make the antigen in your own body. All the standard vaccines you’ve gotten do not work like that. They give you the antigen already made -which is simpler and cleaner.

With the mRNA vaccines, the mRNA in the vaccine gives your cells instructions to make the antigen/spike protein. Once that happens, your body reacts by developing antibodies to the spike protein. The mRNA itself is supposed to self-destruct after the instructions is given (so it doesn’t linger and keep making spike protein in your body, which you wouldn’t want once you’ve developed antibodies). CDC has a nice image illustrating how the mRNA vaccine works - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/vaccines/COVID-19-mRNA-infographic_G_508.pdf

The potential concern with mRNA vaccine has to do with what may possibly go wrong in the “making the spike protein part”. While mRNA technology has been used in cancer therapy, using it to make the antigen for a vaccine is completely novel. Once again, with standard vaccines, we don’t make the antigen in our body, we just get the antigen in the shot.

I’m not a doctor or PhD, so I asked my friends in medical to explain to me in plain English what the concerns are. What I was told, to put it simply, is that if something goes awry in the “making the spike protein” part, such as the mRNA goes somewhere in the body it’s not supposed to and then instruct cells to make spike protein where you wouldn’t want your own antibodies attacking, you essentially have an autoimmune phenomenon where your body is attacking its own cells. This concern also applies to the J&J viral vector vaccine. mRNA vaccines and viral vector vaccines differ only in how they get your body to make the spike protein. Either way, you’re making the spike protein.

I sold vaccines for a long time, and I believe in the science, so I got it knowing that this vaccine is very different. Since my family was nervous about getting vaccinated, and COVID-19 cases were high where I live, I was the first to get it. I got 2 does of the Pfizer vaccine, and I didn’t have any side effects other than a slight fever. My wife chose not to get vaccinated since we’re trying to have another baby, and she’s nervous about everything she puts in her body, and I respect that. For the rest of my family, it’s a mixed, some people got vaccinated and some didn’t. We agreed that we wouldn’t pressure each other. Everyone has to make their own decision based on their own health and their individual risks vs benefits. I think it’s really important to understand how these vaccines work to make an informed decision. I’m sharing my story in hopes that the vaccinated and unvaccinated can be more understanding of each other’s perspective.

imagine your wife was the employee….terrible
 






There is political posturing, without a doubt. But the real reason is that pharma and government just closed the biggest business deal ever… The government wants to conduct the biggest compliance test ever with this pandemic, and to do that they need to buy vaccines/ PCR tests from pharma. In a public emergency, pharma is IMMUNE from liability for any harm from products they rush out… hmmm, huge upside with no downsides…


Mandatory vaccines = greater demand for pharma products. It’s classic I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine ;), We grant you EUAs, you help us pressure the masses into compliance, which ultimately means more money in your pocket, especially with those booster doses…. It’s a win-win. That’s what they mean by “We’re all in this together”

follow the science? Lol sure we’ll do that… because where money goes, science follows

I wish cafe Pharma had a like button. Liked
 
























There is no understanding of not getting the vaccine unless you are truly contraindicated. At this point we would have seen any substantial design and manufacturing flaws with the amount of vaccinations that have been administered world wide and we quite simply are not seeing it. Your argument is ok, I guess, if you are talking about being the first folks to get inoculated back in Jan/Feb. It is the middle of August and we have not seen any evidence of any unexpected or massive amounts of untoward AR's. So the 'i don't want to be a guinea pig' defense is over at this point.

Over 4.5 Billion people have been vaccinated...that is arguably the largest sample size of any drug ever to show safety and efficacy.

4.5 billion doses not people. Your “facts” are ok, I guess. Who pays you to make these ignorant pro-vaccine comments? :rolleyes:
 






4.5 billion doses not people. Your “facts” are ok, I guess. Who pays you to make these ignorant pro-vaccine comments? :rolleyes:

Ok so close to 2 billion people are fully vaccinated…and still people are not dropping like flies so the logic holds true.

Who pays you to make anti science comments against vaccines?
 






Ok so close to 2 billion people are fully vaccinated…and still people are not dropping like flies so the logic holds true.

Who pays you to make anti science comments against vaccines?

This company went to the dogs several years ago when they stopped hiring people based upon experience and talent and started focusing on “equity”. Now this oh so progressive company is stripping away employees civil rights. Well done. You will fail. You deserve to.
 
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Im truly shocked at the venom that people have towards individuals who have legitimate concerns over the vaccine. The people defending the mandate of the vaccine I cannot fathom. How you can defend this? As a previous poster stated, even a miracle medicine that cured everything would still be unethical to force people to take. While the brainwashed conveniently disregard the massive AR's, are they not even remotely concerned at the lack transparency, the censorship, the discrimination, the intrusion into personal freedoms? You people not only support fascism but embrace it. It's goddamn un-American.

They may have MBA's, PhD's etc out the yazoo but lack independent and critical thought, (see, no name calling like you guys) and insult people who disagree with their dogma. Everyone knows SF has severe mental health issues but it's actually worse in SSF. No hope for these people. To quote Daly City's own Tim Armstrong "With no evacuation, let California fall into the fuckin ocean" (great song by the way).
 


















Im truly shocked at the venom that people have towards individuals who have legitimate concerns over the vaccine. The people defending the mandate of the vaccine I cannot fathom. How you can defend this? As a previous poster stated, even a miracle medicine that cured everything would still be unethical to force people to take. While the brainwashed conveniently disregard the massive AR's, are they not even remotely concerned at the lack transparency, the censorship, the discrimination, the intrusion into personal freedoms? You people not only support fascism but embrace it. It's goddamn un-American.

They may have MBA's, PhD's etc out the yazoo but lack independent and critical thought, (see, no name calling like you guys) and insult people who disagree with their dogma. Everyone knows SF has severe mental health issues but it's actually worse in SSF. No hope for these people. To quote Daly City's own Tim Armstrong "With no evacuation, let California fall into the fuckin ocean" (great song by the way).

What the F are you babbling about? You off your meds? Venom for anti vaxers is justified…their unsubstantiated fears are not.

Vaccines have been mandated at public schools and most private schools for decades.

The only way this pandemic ends is through mass vaccinations. Every legitimate scientist agrees on this. Funny when dopes like you think you know better than the experts.