Public Option Bill

[Anonymous]

I agree with you buddy but these "all government does is care about you" types will ever get it.

Remember Reagan's quote that you you should be fearful of the government "Because we come to help."

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with you buddy but these "all government does is care about you" types will ever get it.

Remember Reagan's quote that you you should be fearful of the government "Because we come to help."

Then why did Reagan get his operations at a govt. run hospital? He benefited big time from govt. run health care. He chose not to apply for coverage in the free market.

If everything the govt. does is bad then why...

>are veterans group protesting Johm McCain's proposal to privatize the VA and give veterans vouchers to buy health insurance?

>don't Republicans in Congress reject their govt. provided health coverage and apply for coverage in the free market?

>do we trust the govt. to run fire departments and the military?

>did the economy expand when Repbulican President Eisenhauer instituted a gas tax to support interstate highways? (Many economist make this claim)

The oposition to a Public Insurance option is really an the insurance monopoly trying to protect its ability to fleece people.
---Dude from Orange County, CA

 

[Anonymous]

Then why did Reagan get his operations at a govt. run hospital? He benefited big time from govt. run health care. He chose not to apply for coverage in the free market.

If everything the govt. does is bad then why...

>are veterans group protesting Johm McCain's proposal to privatize the VA and give veterans vouchers to buy health insurance?

>don't Republicans in Congress reject their govt. provided health coverage and apply for coverage in the free market?

>do we trust the govt. to run fire departments and the military?

>did the economy expand when Repbulican President Eisenhauer instituted a gas tax to support interstate highways? (Many economist make this claim)

The oposition to a Public Insurance option is really an the insurance monopoly trying to protect its ability to fleece people.
---Dude from Orange County, CA

V.A. Hospitals, are you serious? Do you remember anything about the Walter Reed V.A. hospital in D.C.? Here is a link to refresh your memory... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/04/AR2007030401394.html

Republicans don't reject THEIR government run healthcare, they probably like it. But ALL government officials reject the public option that you want. NONE of them were willing to give-up what they have for this new reform insurance that they want you to have. Do you really think you are going to get the same level of healthcare as our elected officials? Wake-up DUDE.

Again.... The FEDERAL government does NOT run the Fire Dept., so your point is pointless. And yes, the Military is one of the few things that the federal government is good at. But to my Point once again, the military is a legitimate, constitutional duty of the federal government... Healthcare is NOT. Go back to Jr. High and learn some basic civics.

To put a fine-point on the ineptitude of our federal government, if you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there would be a shortage of sand.

 

[Anonymous]

Then why did Reagan get his operations at a govt. run hospital? He benefited big time from govt. run health care. He chose not to apply for coverage in the free market.

If everything the govt. does is bad then why...

>are veterans group protesting Johm McCain's proposal to privatize the VA and give veterans vouchers to buy health insurance?

>don't Republicans in Congress reject their govt. provided health coverage and apply for coverage in the free market?

>do we trust the govt. to run fire departments and the military?

>did the economy expand when Repbulican President Eisenhauer instituted a gas tax to support interstate highways? (Many economist make this claim)

The oposition to a Public Insurance option is really an the insurance monopoly trying to protect its ability to fleece people.
---Dude from Orange County, CA

You claim to be a Dude from California.... look around you. Your state sucks and is the direct result of years of failed liberal, government programs. If you like that type of shit, fine... you are in the right place for it, but PLEASE don't try to export your failed ideas throughout the rest of America. Much of the rest of America actually embraces the values and principles that our country was founded on and rejects liberal, socialist ideals.

 

[Anonymous]

V.A. Hospitals, are you serious? Do you remember anything about the Walter Reed V.A. hospital in D.C.? Here is a link to refresh your memory... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/04/AR2007030401394.html

Republicans don't reject THEIR government run healthcare, they probably like it. But ALL government officials reject the public option that you want. NONE of them were willing to give-up what they have for this new reform insurance that they want you to have. Do you really think you are going to get the same level of healthcare as our elected officials? Wake-up DUDE.

Again.... The FEDERAL government does NOT run the Fire Dept., so your point is pointless. And yes, the Military is one of the few things that the federal government is good at. But to my Point once again, the military is a legitimate, constitutional duty of the federal government... Healthcare is NOT. Go back to Jr. High and learn some basic civics.

To put a fine-point on the ineptitude of our federal government, if you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there would be a shortage of sand.

Outside of the Walter Reed Hospital fiasco the veterans prefere the VA coverage to the HMOs that frequently cancel coverage of sick policy holders. Veterans groups are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

You think the Federal govt. screws everything, but economists say this:

>Eisenhauer's tax payer run interstate program stimulated the economy. I notice you ignored that point I made earlier!!

>GI Bill stimulated the economy by increasing the % of Americans going to college.

Yes, govt. healthcare was not lised in the Constitution, but then again education for veterans (GI Bill) was not mentioned either. Govt. has changed to address national needs.

I respect your anti-govt. opinions. Keep in mind, the insurance monopoly is gouging businesses and causing jobs to go to Canada and other nations. (book: Outsoursing America). A PO would force HMOs to end their price gouging. Obama caved in to the HMO lobby and dropped the PO. The bill he settled for does not stop the price gouging.
---------Dude from Orange County, CA

 

[Anonymous]

Then why did Reagan get his operations at a govt. run hospital? He benefited big time from govt. run health care. He chose not to apply for coverage in the free market.

If everything the govt. does is bad then why...

>are veterans group protesting Johm McCain's proposal to privatize the VA and give veterans vouchers to buy health insurance?

>don't Republicans in Congress reject their govt. provided health coverage and apply for coverage in the free market?

>do we trust the govt. to run fire departments and the military?

>did the economy expand when Repbulican President Eisenhauer instituted a gas tax to support interstate highways? (Many economist make this claim)

The oposition to a Public Insurance option is really an the insurance monopoly trying to protect its ability to fleece people.
---Dude from Orange County, CA

This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. Of course Reagan or McCain didn't reject their free healthcare. It was a perk of the job. Humans are humans and will always act in self preservation. Big surprise.

Have you been to a VA hospital? I go to them frequently and the length of the waits never cease to amaze me.

 

[Anonymous]

Outside of the Walter Reed Hospital fiasco the veterans prefere the VA coverage to the HMOs that frequently cancel coverage of sick policy holders. Veterans groups are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

You think the Federal govt. screws everything, but economists say this:

>Eisenhauer's tax payer run interstate program stimulated the economy. I notice you ignored that point I made earlier!!

>GI Bill stimulated the economy by increasing the % of Americans going to college.

Yes, govt. healthcare was not lised in the Constitution, but then again education for veterans (GI Bill) was not mentioned either. Govt. has changed to address national needs.

I respect your anti-govt. opinions. Keep in mind, the insurance monopoly is gouging businesses and causing jobs to go to Canada and other nations. (book: Outsoursing America). A PO would force HMOs to end their price gouging. Obama caved in to the HMO lobby and dropped the PO. The bill he settled for does not stop the price gouging.
---------Dude from Orange County, CA

Your supposition is that the PO could self sustain itself and still provide good care without large cost raises. When premiums go up, what do I do if I am on the public option? What recorse would I have? Do I yell at my politician? Tell them that they won't get re-elected if they raise my PO rates? Then the politicians feel the heat and continue to run the program into the red because unlike private HMOs, the government can continue to print worthless Dollars and continue a 14 trillion debt. To a poltician just trying to save his own skin, this is monopoly money. Whats another 9 billion a year for this program this year when I can keep my senatorship.

You can't deny this will happen. I lived in California and I let 5 years ago because of that sort of thinking. When I talk to my friends about your high unemployment, high taxes and "dude" mentality, I laugh.

California may make hot women, but their political ideology was chic in 1969. Hippy crap.

 

[Anonymous]

Outside of the Walter Reed Hospital fiasco the veterans prefere the VA coverage to the HMOs that frequently cancel coverage of sick policy holders. Veterans groups are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

You think the Federal govt. screws everything, but economists say this:

>Eisenhauer's tax payer run interstate program stimulated the economy. I notice you ignored that point I made earlier!!

>GI Bill stimulated the economy by increasing the % of Americans going to college.

Yes, govt. healthcare was not lised in the Constitution, but then again education for veterans (GI Bill) was not mentioned either. Govt. has changed to address national needs.

I respect your anti-govt. opinions. Keep in mind, the insurance monopoly is gouging businesses and causing jobs to go to Canada and other nations. (book: Outsoursing America). A PO would force HMOs to end their price gouging. Obama caved in to the HMO lobby and dropped the PO. The bill he settled for does not stop the price gouging.
---------Dude from Orange County, CA

You keep talking about the insurance monopoly.... here is a short list of the major health insurance companies:
AARP
Aetna
American Family Insurance
American National Insurance Company
Amerigroup
Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield
Assurant
Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association
Celtic Insurance Company, subsidiary of Centene Corporation
Centene Corporation
Cigna
Coventry Health Care
EmblemHealth
Fortis
Golden Rule Insurance Company
Group Health Cooperative
GHI
Health Net
HealthMarkets
HealthSpring
Highmark
Humana
Independence Blue Cross
Kaiser Permanente
LifeWise Health Plan of Oregon
Medical Mutual of Ohio
Molina Healthcare
Premera Blue Cross
Principal Financial Group
The Regence Group
Shelter Insurance
Thrivent Financial for Lutherans
UnitedHealth Group
Unitrin
Universal American Corporation
WellCare Health Plans
WellPoint

How many companies is that?
With all this competition, how can any one of these insurers have a monopoly? After government run healthcare puts them out of business, then who has the monopoly.

 

[Anonymous]

Outside of the Walter Reed Hospital fiasco the veterans prefere the VA coverage to the HMOs that frequently cancel coverage of sick policy holders. Veterans groups are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

You think the Federal govt. screws everything, but economists say this:

>Eisenhauer's tax payer run interstate program stimulated the economy. I notice you ignored that point I made earlier!!

>GI Bill stimulated the economy by increasing the % of Americans going to college.

Yes, govt. healthcare was not lised in the Constitution, but then again education for veterans (GI Bill) was not mentioned either. Govt. has changed to address national needs.

I respect your anti-govt. opinions. Keep in mind, the insurance monopoly is gouging businesses and causing jobs to go to Canada and other nations. (book: Outsoursing America). A PO would force HMOs to end their price gouging. Obama caved in to the HMO lobby and dropped the PO. The bill he settled for does not stop the price gouging.
---------Dude from Orange County, CA

Oh yeah, in regards to your empty allegations of price gouging.... I don't know how you roll out there in Cali, but here in the rest of the U.S., there are very specific laws against price gouging. So without proof, you are simply crying wolf.... and with proof, the guilty will be punished. So you see, these allegations of price gouging are NO arguement for a Public Option or government take-over of Healthcare.

 

[Anonymous]

Outside of the Walter Reed Hospital fiasco the veterans prefere the VA coverage to the HMOs that frequently cancel coverage of sick policy holders. Veterans groups are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

You think the Federal govt. screws everything, but economists say this:

>Eisenhauer's tax payer run interstate program stimulated the economy. I notice you ignored that point I made earlier!!

>GI Bill stimulated the economy by increasing the % of Americans going to college.

Yes, govt. healthcare was not lised in the Constitution, but then again education for veterans (GI Bill) was not mentioned either. Govt. has changed to address national needs.

I respect your anti-govt. opinions. Keep in mind, the insurance monopoly is gouging businesses and causing jobs to go to Canada and other nations. (book: Outsoursing America). A PO would force HMOs to end their price gouging. Obama caved in to the HMO lobby and dropped the PO. The bill he settled for does not stop the price gouging.
---------Dude from Orange County, CA

Lastly, you keep bringing up government programs such as the interstate highway program, and the GI Bill as some sort of success story for the government. Have these programs helped certain individuals.... yes, there is no doubt. Have they even stimulated the economy... to a certain extent, yes. But the real question is.... can government achieve these goals better than the free-market. And moreover, in a free-market, should government even be doing these things at all. In case you didn't know, governent is you and me. When government does things, it does it with tax-dollars.... so really, they are not creating anything. They are only shifting money from one group of people and giving it to another. This does not create wealth or prosperity. It does not promote innovation. I would bet that 99% of the things that you own, tv, car, computer, ipod, etc. had nothing to do with a government program. As a matter of fact, it is probably very likely that some government program or regulation actually got in the way of creating those products. You seem overly obsessed with evil, greedy companies. Do you really believe that your elected officials are somehow devoid of greed? What kind of society isn't structured on greed? The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm; capitalism is that kind of a system.

 

[Anonymous]

Lastly, you keep bringing up government programs such as the interstate highway program, and the GI Bill as some sort of success story for the government. Have these programs helped certain individuals.... yes, there is no doubt. Have they even stimulated the economy... to a certain extent, yes. But the real question is.... can government achieve these goals better than the free-market. And moreover, in a free-market, should government even be doing these things at all. In case you didn't know, governent is you and me. When government does things, it does it with tax-dollars.... so really, they are not creating anything. They are only shifting money from one group of people and giving it to another. This does not create wealth or prosperity. It does not promote innovation. I would bet that 99% of the things that you own, tv, car, computer, ipod, etc. had nothing to do with a government program. As a matter of fact, it is probably very likely that some government program or regulation actually got in the way of creating those products. You seem overly obsessed with evil, greedy companies. Do you really believe that your elected officials are somehow devoid of greed? What kind of society isn't structured on greed? The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm; capitalism is that kind of a system.

I assume all of you responders are highly compensated and get health coverage from your employer. However, if you were self employed and had to pay over $1,000/month for health coverage you may have a differrent opinion of health insurance companies.

Even if Obamacare survives the Supreme Court, the HC issue will not gone away
because Obamacre does not deal with the price gouging that has taken for over a decade. If companies like Anthem Blue Cross keep insisting on 29% premium increases people will start to demand a Public Option or expansion of Medicare.


I don't think businesses are evil. Their sole aim is to increase the stock price which is achieved through charging the highest possible price. Not everyone needs a BMW or flatscreen, but society functions best when certain services are made affordable to most people. If govt. did not subidize public univerisities there would be even bigger shortages in critical ocupations like nurses and engineers. I bet most of you attended public universities. If the profit motive conflicts with the common good then it is best for the govt. to provide the service.

--Dude from Calif. -if you want to reply contact me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

 

[Anonymous]

I assume all of you responders are highly compensated and get health coverage from your employer. However, if you were self employed and had to pay over $1,000/month for health coverage you may have a differrent opinion of health insurance companies.

Even if Obamacare survives the Supreme Court, the HC issue will not gone away
because Obamacre does not deal with the price gouging that has taken for over a decade. If companies like Anthem Blue Cross keep insisting on 29% premium increases people will start to demand a Public Option or expansion of Medicare.


I don't think businesses are evil. Their sole aim is to increase the stock price which is achieved through charging the highest possible price. Not everyone needs a BMW or flatscreen, but society functions best when certain services are made affordable to most people. If govt. did not subidize public univerisities there would be even bigger shortages in critical ocupations like nurses and engineers. I bet most of you attended public universities. If the profit motive conflicts with the common good then it is best for the govt. to provide the service.

--Dude from Calif. -if you want to reply contact me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

Profit margins always conflict with the common good. Look at housing. A good home is expensive, especially in California. I should know, I left because a shit hole was $600,000 in the San Gabriel Valley where I grew up. Should government provide "a public option" for middle class families to buy houses? Isn't shelter "a right?" What about food? My grocery bill for my middle class family is $100 a week roughly. Should I be able to go to a government food store and buy government funded food? Maybe a government option supermarket could keep those evil meat and vegetable companies from price gouging my family. God I hate the meat and vegetable industry.

 

[Anonymous]

I assume all of you responders are highly compensated and get health coverage from your employer. However, if you were self employed and had to pay over $1,000/month for health coverage you may have a differrent opinion of health insurance companies.

Even if Obamacare survives the Supreme Court, the HC issue will not gone away
because Obamacre does not deal with the price gouging that has taken for over a decade. If companies like Anthem Blue Cross keep insisting on 29% premium increases people will start to demand a Public Option or expansion of Medicare.


I don't think businesses are evil. Their sole aim is to increase the stock price which is achieved through charging the highest possible price. Not everyone needs a BMW or flatscreen, but society functions best when certain services are made affordable to most people. If govt. did not subidize public univerisities there would be even bigger shortages in critical ocupations like nurses and engineers. I bet most of you attended public universities. If the profit motive conflicts with the common good then it is best for the govt. to provide the service.

--Dude from Calif. -if you want to reply contact me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

You just made the allegation of price gouging again. Price gouging is illegal.... so show me any evidence of price gouging that went unpunished.

"I don't think businesses are evil. Their sole aim is to increase the stock price which is achieved through charging the highest possible price."
Your statement shows a complete lack of fundamental understanding of how business works. Businesses charge a fair-market value based on market-factors. If a comany charges too much for its product and nobody can afford it, they price themselves out of the market.
The most important single central fact about a free market is that no exchange takes place unless both parties benefit.
Study basic economics, learn about the free-market and the law of supply and demand. Read a book by Milton Friedman.
Competition is the NUMBER ONE FACTOR that will lower costs. Healthcare reform does not do a single thing to lower costs and will actually raise costs.

"If the profit motive conflicts with the common good then it is best for the govt. to provide the service."
What motive does the government have? Tell me, is there some society you know of that doesn't run on greed? You think Russia doesn't run on greed? You think China doesn't run on greed? What is greed? Do you think our American government is somehow immune from greed, especially when history has not a single example that supports that theory. The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm, capitalism is that kind of a system.

How can you live in California, a state that is COMPLETELY FUBAR'ed beyond all recognition and NOT understand that it is precisely the policies that you advocate that got you there?

 

[Anonymous]

I assume all of you responders are highly compensated and get health coverage from your employer. However, if you were self employed and had to pay over $1,000/month for health coverage you may have a differrent opinion of health insurance companies.

Even if Obamacare survives the Supreme Court, the HC issue will not gone away
because Obamacre does not deal with the price gouging that has taken for over a decade. If companies like Anthem Blue Cross keep insisting on 29% premium increases people will start to demand a Public Option or expansion of Medicare.


I don't think businesses are evil. Their sole aim is to increase the stock price which is achieved through charging the highest possible price. Not everyone needs a BMW or flatscreen, but society functions best when certain services are made affordable to most people. If govt. did not subidize public univerisities there would be even bigger shortages in critical ocupations like nurses and engineers. I bet most of you attended public universities. If the profit motive conflicts with the common good then it is best for the govt. to provide the service.

--Dude from Calif. -if you want to reply contact me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

An arguement against price gouging taken from the following website:
http://asgcritique.blogspot.com/2006/09/no-such-thing-as-price-gouging-in.html

Read it... you might actually learn something
If price gouging existed in the marketplace, then that means a business can force a person to pay for its goods or services. But setting a price never involves force, because the consumer always has the freedom not to buy. Price is never an ultimatum on the customer; it has always been an offer.

When we think about "price gouging", we think of monopoly prices like those for airline tickets offered by Hawaiian Airlines. Since no other airline exists then the people seem to have no choice but to pay HAL airfares. But that is still the wrong assumption because many people choose not to fly at current prices anyway. They just stay at home.

HAL understands this. There is limit to what people are willing to pay. This is called the law of demand. Raising the price any higher will reduce the current volume of traffic that now maximizes HAL profits. If HAL can supposedly gouge the consumer in the sense that they are using force to get their way, then the company wouldn't stop at a $1000 per ticket. They would increase fares to two or three thousands dollars if there were no limit to what consumers would pay.

It is with this same reasoning that environmentalists now demand that the government force gas prices up to $4 to $5 a gallon. You would think that gas station owners and Big Oil would join the environmental choir, but they choose not to. They understand that the current level of patronage relative to current costs of business maximize profits. Raising the price runs the risks of reducing their number of customers and thereby reducing their profits.

Perhaps they and the environmentalists realize that demand for gas is not as inelastic as presumed before. People start to conserve by running errands all in one trip, carpooling, buying smaller vehicles or taking other means of transportation. Prices to a point encourage people to conserve and buy less (what the environmentalists want), which translates to reduced profits (what businesses don't want).

In the end, price gouging doesn't exist for the simple fact that you and I have the right to our individual property. No one around says there should be a limit to the price we set for our own homes. You could "price gouge" your one bedroom house for a million dollars if you want to, but that doesn't mean someone is going to buy it. But what you think your property is worth is not only priceless; it's a fundamental and inalienable right.

However, there is only one real price gouger in the world. It is the government, which uses the political process to sanctify its thievery but calls it taxation and regulation instead.

 

[Anonymous]

An arguement against price gouging taken from the following website:
http://asgcritique.blogspot.com/2006/09/no-such-thing-as-price-gouging-in.html

Read it... you might actually learn something
If price gouging existed in the marketplace, then that means a business can force a person to pay for its goods or services. But setting a price never involves force, because the consumer always has the freedom not to buy. Price is never an ultimatum on the customer; it has always been an offer.

When we think about "price gouging", we think of monopoly prices like those for airline tickets offered by Hawaiian Airlines. Since no other airline exists then the people seem to have no choice but to pay HAL airfares. But that is still the wrong assumption because many people choose not to fly at current prices anyway. They just stay at home.

HAL understands this. There is limit to what people are willing to pay. This is called the law of demand. Raising the price any higher will reduce the current volume of traffic that now maximizes HAL profits. If HAL can supposedly gouge the consumer in the sense that they are using force to get their way, then the company wouldn't stop at a $1000 per ticket. They would increase fares to two or three thousands dollars if there were no limit to what consumers would pay.

It is with this same reasoning that environmentalists now demand that the government force gas prices up to $4 to $5 a gallon. You would think that gas station owners and Big Oil would join the environmental choir, but they choose not to. They understand that the current level of patronage relative to current costs of business maximize profits. Raising the price runs the risks of reducing their number of customers and thereby reducing their profits.

Perhaps they and the environmentalists realize that demand for gas is not as inelastic as presumed before. People start to conserve by running errands all in one trip, carpooling, buying smaller vehicles or taking other means of transportation. Prices to a point encourage people to conserve and buy less (what the environmentalists want), which translates to reduced profits (what businesses don't want).

In the end, price gouging doesn't exist for the simple fact that you and I have the right to our individual property. No one around says there should be a limit to the price we set for our own homes. You could "price gouge" your one bedroom house for a million dollars if you want to, but that doesn't mean someone is going to buy it. But what you think your property is worth is not only priceless; it's a fundamental and inalienable right.

However, there is only one real price gouger in the world. It is the government, which uses the political process to sanctify its thievery but calls it taxation and regulation instead.

If govt. is the " real price gouger in the world" then why....

>do most college students attend public universities when they are free to attend private universities? The reason is the lower tuition.

>are the monthly premiums for Medicare ($90) only 1/10 of what 50 year olds pay for private health insurance?

>does the VA negotiate prices with the drug companies? No wonder veterans are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

>has the gasonline tax that supports highways not kept pace with inflation? I noticed that charges on private toll roads exceed inflation. Last increase on the gas tax was in 1993.

Last year there was a backlash against Anthem Blue Cross' proposed 29% rate hike, and that helped Obama rally support for his HC bill. Unfortunately, he did not include a Public Option that would force private insurers to keep their rate hikes reasonable.

--This is my last post. Feel free to email me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

 

[Anonymous]

If govt. is the " real price gouger in the world" then why....

>do most college students attend public universities when they are free to attend private universities? The reason is the lower tuition.

>are the monthly premiums for Medicare ($90) only 1/10 of what 50 year olds pay for private health insurance?

>does the VA negotiate prices with the drug companies? No wonder veterans are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

>has the gasonline tax that supports highways not kept pace with inflation? I noticed that charges on private toll roads exceed inflation. Last increase on the gas tax was in 1993.

Last year there was a backlash against Anthem Blue Cross' proposed 29% rate hike, and that helped Obama rally support for his HC bill. Unfortunately, he did not include a Public Option that would force private insurers to keep their rate hikes reasonable.

--This is my last post. Feel free to email me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

*you keep posting the same "examples" over and over again:

* I went to a public school because I liked it and it was in an area I wanted to live in. My public university is also broke as the state cut their budget by a considerable amount.

*Medicare premiums are artificially low and is going broke. Google it and look and reputable sources. I could sell a widget at a loss if I had government backing, the ability to print money, the ability to go further in debt and as a politician, the understanding that if I ever touch medicare and the like, I will get booted out of offices fromt he geriatric crowd saying "You raised my premiums, now i have to eat catfood." You think this won't happen with a PO?

*The VA negotiates prices like any other formulary for any private drug company would. Bad example. This is why on my private insurance some drugs are covered, and some aren't just like in the private sector.

*Gasoline taxes don't go up because of how polticially unpopular it is, especially when gas got expensive after the war. Again, you think this political upheval wouldn't happen if they raised the PO rates later on down the line. Of course it would and the PO would go broke just like all the other government programs out there.

The government pretty much messes up anything it does. And when there isn't enough money for something like the fire department, the unions post commercials like

"You might die if you don't pay more taxes for the fire department."

or when medicare has proposed cuts, you get commercials from Old People Lobbying groups saying

"Grandma will die in the street and have to eat cat-food."


It is funny, I spoke to my great grandfather decade ago who was a 20 something when the depression hit. He said that when his family was left with nothing, they banded together, relied on the community and the church and didn't need government. HE used to roll his eyes at those that looked to the government for salvation...used to say "pick yourself up by the bootstraps. Get it done for god sakes."

America's culture has changed to expect a cradle to grave entitlement. This is what the government wants, ie you to be dependent on them as the only real forces of change...not yourselves, your church, your family, companies, but the government. No wonder the US has been in decline for the past 30 years.

 

[Anonymous]

If govt. is the " real price gouger in the world" then why....

>do most college students attend public universities when they are free to attend private universities? The reason is the lower tuition.

>are the monthly premiums for Medicare ($90) only 1/10 of what 50 year olds pay for private health insurance?

>does the VA negotiate prices with the drug companies? No wonder veterans are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

>has the gasonline tax that supports highways not kept pace with inflation? I noticed that charges on private toll roads exceed inflation. Last increase on the gas tax was in 1993.

Last year there was a backlash against Anthem Blue Cross' proposed 29% rate hike, and that helped Obama rally support for his HC bill. Unfortunately, he did not include a Public Option that would force private insurers to keep their rate hikes reasonable.

--This is my last post. Feel free to email me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

You are hopeless dude. Do you understand that the government is all-powerful? It can print money. It can tax its citizens to shift money and can create false-market prices which are totally unsustainable. It can subsidize public universities, the V.A., highwayss, and medicare. Anthem can NOT do that. Private companies have to remain profitable and create prices that promote their business model. If anything, the government is guilty of Predatory Pricing. Do you understand that the U.S. national debt is as of January 31, 2011, was $14.13 trillion and was 96.4% of calendar year 2010's annual gross domestic product (GDP). The estimated population of the United States is 309,970,287 so each citizen's share of this debt is $45,563.11. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
$4.18 billion per day since September 28, 2007! How can a private business compete with that? It can't.... in the end, the government will put them out of business and we will ALL suffer. Look at Greece, look at much of Europe.... they are totally F'ed and people like you are trying to send America down that same path.

 

[Anonymous]

*you keep posting the same "examples" over and over again:

* I went to a public school because I liked it and it was in an area I wanted to live in. My public university is also broke as the state cut their budget by a considerable amount.

*Medicare premiums are artificially low and is going broke. Google it and look and reputable sources. I could sell a widget at a loss if I had government backing, the ability to print money, the ability to go further in debt and as a politician, the understanding that if I ever touch medicare and the like, I will get booted out of offices fromt he geriatric crowd saying "You raised my premiums, now i have to eat catfood." You think this won't happen with a PO?

*The VA negotiates prices like any other formulary for any private drug company would. Bad example. This is why on my private insurance some drugs are covered, and some aren't just like in the private sector.

*Gasoline taxes don't go up because of how polticially unpopular it is, especially when gas got expensive after the war. Again, you think this political upheval wouldn't happen if they raised the PO rates later on down the line. Of course it would and the PO would go broke just like all the other government programs out there.

The government pretty much messes up anything it does. And when there isn't enough money for something like the fire department, the unions post commercials like

"You might die if you don't pay more taxes for the fire department."

or when medicare has proposed cuts, you get commercials from Old People Lobbying groups saying

"Grandma will die in the street and have to eat cat-food."


It is funny, I spoke to my great grandfather decade ago who was a 20 something when the depression hit. He said that when his family was left with nothing, they banded together, relied on the community and the church and didn't need government. HE used to roll his eyes at those that looked to the government for salvation...used to say "pick yourself up by the bootstraps. Get it done for god sakes."

America's culture has changed to expect a cradle to grave entitlement. This is what the government wants, ie you to be dependent on them as the only real forces of change...not yourselves, your church, your family, companies, but the government. No wonder the US has been in decline for the past 30 years.

I agree with you... this Dude from California is a typical Lib. He actually seems like a decent guy, but he is completely clueless. He is what Stalin would have called a "Useful Idiot" People like this just spit-out the usual liberal talking-points and have no idea how to have a rational debate. A rational debate would require a level of thinking and analysis that most liberals don't have the ability to engage in or are just too lazy to challenge their own drone-way-of-thinking.

 

[Anonymous]

If govt. is the " real price gouger in the world" then why....

>do most college students attend public universities when they are free to attend private universities? The reason is the lower tuition.

>are the monthly premiums for Medicare ($90) only 1/10 of what 50 year olds pay for private health insurance?

>does the VA negotiate prices with the drug companies? No wonder veterans are against McCain's proposal to privatize the VA.

>has the gasonline tax that supports highways not kept pace with inflation? I noticed that charges on private toll roads exceed inflation. Last increase on the gas tax was in 1993.

Last year there was a backlash against Anthem Blue Cross' proposed 29% rate hike, and that helped Obama rally support for his HC bill. Unfortunately, he did not include a Public Option that would force private insurers to keep their rate hikes reasonable.

--This is my last post. Feel free to email me at ocrep75@yahoo.com

Why do you think that public schools have lower tuition than private institutions? Why do you think the V.A. and Medicare can charge less money than private insurers? First of all, because they are not as good as private entities. You kind of get what you pay for. But moreover, it's because they are subsidized by tax-payers. It's also because the are allowed to function with HUGE, UNSUSTAINABLE DEBT. It has been shown ALL over the world that private schools actually spend less money per student than does public schools and they get FAR GREATER RESULTS. However, you and I have to pay more as individuals to send our kids to private schools because first-off private schools are NOT subsidized and secondly we have to waste our tax-dollars on public education which SUCKS. So we have to pay for a broken system that is subsidized while having to pay again out of our pockets for a private system which works and is not subsidized..... Seems backwards doesn't it!?!?!? There is no doubt, based on quality and results, Government programs can NOT hang with private enitities. And if you were to take away all the tax-payer subsidies, government programs could NOT even compete on price. Government controlls all the cards in this game and they create prices and services that do NOT reflect any sustainable business model.

 

[Anonymous]

Why do you think that public schools have lower tuition than private institutions? Why do you think the V.A. and Medicare can charge less money than private insurers? First of all, because they are not as good as private entities. You kind of get what you pay for. But moreover, it's because they are subsidized by tax-payers. It's also because the are allowed to function with HUGE, UNSUSTAINABLE DEBT. It has been shown ALL over the world that private schools actually spend less money per student than does public schools and they get FAR GREATER RESULTS. However, you and I have to pay more as individuals to send our kids to private schools because first-off private schools are NOT subsidized and secondly we have to waste our tax-dollars on public education which SUCKS. So we have to pay for a broken system that is subsidized while having to pay again out of our pockets for a private system which works and is not subsidized..... Seems backwards doesn't it!?!?!? There is no doubt, based on quality and results, Government programs can NOT hang with private enitities. And if you were to take away all the tax-payer subsidies, government programs could NOT even compete on price. Government controlls all the cards in this game and they create prices and services that do NOT reflect any sustainable business model.

You are breaking this guy's mind I bet!

The power to continue to print money and lessen the value of the dollar 20% is something that left wing types can't fathom. They always point to "what about the waste of money in IRaq" and I do agree with them on that, but I always love the "You can't cut that program..." program mentality.

I wish they would allow me to opt of Social Security. The notion of a means test is a laughable too. My family makes VERY good money. If they know that based on my income I will no longer receive SS benefits if they do a means test which is growing in popularity, can I stop paying in then? Of course not, they want my money to pay for everyone else...

Spreadin' the wealth. Whenever politicians say that I feel like I need to spread my legs open so I can get f'ed by the non-producers in this country.

It's funny though, I will have paid about 40 grand in payroll deductions last year not related to retirement, etc. And then, before April 15 i need to shell out another 8 on average to make it up. WHen half of the american public don't pay income taxes, they still get "all those great services" I do.

Crock.