Layoffs?

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yes, you are correct.

Inc, Endo and Gynecare are the only three that are being changed. Biosurgery is part of Ethicon surgical care but they are not part of this group that is being reorganized. I'm not sure what is going to happen to the reps in territories where there are a ton of reps but there is no way it is looking good. Last year on the Inc side they did the same thing. Had a call in September and let the displaced people work until mid october. They will not lay anyone off until Q3 results. That is a fact across any sales organization, especially since they have a regular fiscal year J-D.
 






the managers know by now what is going on. has anyone heard anything?? Clearly we will not be having layoffs tomorrow but we HAVE to be having them soon. If tomorrows call is all about "upcoming timelines" and that's all, I am going to be very upset. A lot of Ethicon folks are catching grief from their managers about their numbers and being put on plans. Seems like a strange time to make such a move.
 






Anonymous said:
the managers know by now what is going on. has anyone heard anything?? Clearly we will not be having layoffs tomorrow but we HAVE to be having them soon. If tomorrows call is all about "upcoming timelines" and that's all, I am going to be very upset. A lot of Ethicon folks are catching grief from their managers about their numbers and being put on plans. Seems like a strange time to make such a move.
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Why do you say we "HAVE" to have layoffs soon? Who besides cafepharma posters have said that there would be layoffs at the rep level? Does it make sense to bring all of those managers to a meeting if they are just going to lay a bunch off? People being put on plans for performance is another indicator that there probably won't be layoffs. If there were going to be layoffs why not just get rid of the people instead of going through the whole process of performance plans?
 












Anonymous said:
Nobody has come out and said "we will have layoffs" but most cities have 7 to 8 reps. How does that work???
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small (endo size) territories with 5 or 6 different types of specialty reps carrying all products for their specialties..plus a couple of different rep type positions dealing with purchasing types (think mini corporate account director roles)
 






so you are telling me the number of reps will stay the same throughout the entire company and pay will more than likely go down. The main customer complaint was that they deal with too many reps. I'm not sure i'm buying it but keep sipping on that tropical punch!

Too many of INC products are commodity products PLUS Gynecare has lost a massive share of their business. From a finance perspective, it does not make sense to keep the 95 ethicon, endo, bariatric and gynecare reps around in each major city.

Everyone can say I told you so when October rolls around but that is exactly what they did last year. The calls came the end of September (after Q3 financials) and people worked until October.
 






Anonymous said:
so you are telling me the number of reps will stay the same throughout the entire company and pay will more than likely go down. The main customer complaint was that they deal with too many reps. I'm not sure i'm buying it but keep sipping on that tropical punch!

Too many of INC products are commodity products PLUS Gynecare has lost a massive share of their business. From a finance perspective, it does not make sense to keep the 95 ethicon, endo, bariatric and gynecare reps around in each major city.

Everyone can say I told you so when October rolls around but that is exactly what they did last year. The calls came the end of September (after Q3 financials) and people worked until October.
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customers deal with too many reps because they have a rep for suture, a rep for mesh, a rep for trocars and staplers, a rep for energy etc...under a specialty rep structure, a general surgeon will have one ethicon rep who sells it all. A CV surgeon will have one ethicon rep. A GYN will have one ethicon rep. A sourcing or materials manager will have one ethicon contact rather than 5 ethicon reps parading in their office (new position that deals with purchasing with a larger territory than the specialty reps). This is totally speculation on my part but someone asked how we can keep 7 reps in a city. That's how.
 






Anonymous said:
Too many of INC products are commodity products PLUS Gynecare has lost a massive share of their business. From a finance perspective, it does not make sense to keep the 95 ethicon, endo, bariatric and gynecare reps around in each major city.
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other than dermabond and basic suture what INC products are commodity products? Not CV suture/needles, not prineo, not mesh, not securestrap. The only (commoditized) product that INC reps even get paid on is dermabond. It may come as a surprise to some but the only suture that INC reps get paid on is antibacterial (plus) suture and cardiovascular suture.
 






take away mesh and securestrap. You co sell those with HSR. Any how much time do you spend counting suture, in-servicing suture and doing all the value added services around suture??? I know because I've been there and done it!!
CSR has suture,prineo,dermabond..PERIOD!
 






Anonymous said:
take away mesh and securestrap. You co sell those with HSR. Any how much time do you spend counting suture, in-servicing suture and doing all the value added services around suture??? I know because I've been there and done it!!
CSR has suture,prineo,dermabond..PERIOD!
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I co sell mesh and securestrap? I wish you would tell my HSR that. They show up in my territory once a month tops! The only suture work I do is in CV. That's where my money is at and I already have the majority of my territory using plus suture. Oh and please don't "take away" the mesh and securestrap as you say. I have made $67k in comp through Q2 in those two categories alone.
 






I think that person meant that you are NOT a specialty rep like the HSR is. Your role is basic entry level while the specialty role is that of a hernia rep. No need to get defensive, it is simply a fact. Do you see the role of an executive clinical sales representative? NO, that is why endo reps are specialty reps that are making bases double what CSRs make. That's great you are selling mesh and tacker but in the end you have a partner and your sole responsibilities are to co-sell that product with your specialty rep. I understand you only get paid on CV and Plus suture but you are there to protect that suture business you do NOT get paid for which in turn gives most CSRs access to the OR.
All of our jobs are changing people!! Access in most ORs is nothing like it use to be. Contracts are the sole foundation all the majority of business in my area and the only say so a surgeon has is in CV and Ortho and that is for the hardware not TSA and suture. The days of selling to surgeons is over unless Obama is run out of office. Either you take a breather for the next two years and bite the bullet or find another job. The glory days are over, ask anyone.
 






Anonymous said:
I think that person meant that you are NOT a specialty rep like the HSR is. Your role is basic entry level while the specialty role is that of a hernia rep. No need to get defensive, it is simply a fact. Do you see the role of an executive clinical sales representative? NO, that is why endo reps are specialty reps that are making bases double what CSRs make. That's great you are selling mesh and tacker but in the end you have a partner and your sole responsibilities are to co-sell that product with your specialty rep. I understand you only get paid on CV and Plus suture but you are there to protect that suture business you do NOT get paid for which in turn gives most CSRs access to the OR.
All of our jobs are changing people!! Access in most ORs is nothing like it use to be. Contracts are the sole foundation all the majority of business in my area and the only say so a surgeon has is in CV and Ortho and that is for the hardware not TSA and suture. The days of selling to surgeons is over unless Obama is run out of office. Either you take a breather for the next two years and bite the bullet or find another job. The glory days are over, ask anyone.
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this post is pretty dead on..just to clarify though..endo reps have a higher base because they make no where near what a CSR or HSR can make in variable compensation. Not saying one is better than the other, but that's just the reality. That is one thing that will be interesting. What will the new jobs look like? High base low commission like endo or low base high commission like INC?
 
























I feel bad for INC reps...most people call them the "suture rep" but they do make good money. Yes, their bases are low (between 45-60) but their comp is pretty sweet. The INC rep in my territory was making around 150-170 a year for a couple of years before she left.
 






I do not have a dog in the fight here, just enjoy reading cafepharma. I am from a large hospital system and I am confused by the discussion around suture reps. I have never seen or spoken to a suture rep since this is all purchased through a distributor (Cardinal). The inventory is kept by an Ethicon employee that tells me she is a contractor hired by Ethicon. The only time I have EVER seen any kind of inservice from an Inc rep is on the new Dermabond replacing the DHV12. So, please explain why suture, dermabond and mesh for that matter couldn't be sold by an EES rep?
 






Anonymous said:
I do not have a dog in the fight here, just enjoy reading cafepharma. I am from a large hospital system and I am confused by the discussion around suture reps. I have never seen or spoken to a suture rep since this is all purchased through a distributor (Cardinal). The inventory is kept by an Ethicon employee that tells me she is a contractor hired by Ethicon. The only time I have EVER seen any kind of inservice from an Inc rep is on the new Dermabond replacing the DHV12. So, please explain why suture, dermabond and mesh for that matter couldn't be sold by an EES rep?
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Suture and dermabond could be sold by an EES rep. Just like trocars, staplers, and cutters could be sold by a suture rep. Mesh is a different story. You definitely need a hernia specific rep as that is pretty competitive. Not as much as ortho but similar. Bottom line is that many of the products could be handled by the same rep as long as the territories are small. That is what all of these changes are likely going to accomplish. Reps with much smaller territories but several more products. You're probably used to seeing your EES rep because he/she has only 4 or 5 accounts. Your suture rep likely has 40-50 accounts, and since suture is not a comp item outside of CV suture, he/she has no reason to spend too much time with suture.
 












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