Zoll Lifecor

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Anonymous said:
Love working here. Making a difference selling life saving product. Ignore all the idiots in here, come join the team, you 'll love it here. I do, best career move I made.
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Give this person a break...he/she could be BRAND NEW because that's the ONLY way you'd say some $h!t like that!!!

In 3-6 months he/she will be back on here complaining like everyone else who's been here that long! 75% of TM's have been here less then 1 year...
 






Anonymous said:
Love working here. Making a difference selling life saving product. Ignore all the idiots in here, come join the team, you 'll love it here. I do, best career move I made.
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If you call 1% save rate (and I'm sure many of these saves were VT set at 150 which would have broke back to normal sinus) making a difference, than I hope you or a family member develop some kind of disease that could be easily treatable but the healthcare system can't seem to find the money to help you, because hundreds of millions have been spent on this piece of shit! Maybe your children will be affected by the shortage of money in the future? Ya keep telling everyone how proud you are!!! Fool!!! Another manager who wants to see if his reps are calling him out on his incompetence. Spend more time learning about the product and cardiology rather than looking for your name!!
 






I really hope you are not in the cardiology field working with doctors or patients. To assume that a VT would break at 150 bpm is a ludicrous assumption. The parameters for shocking are programmable. These vests are not just placed on anyone. You obviously have surface knowledge. Enough to be a danger to a patient.

If I were a patient, and I was told that I was a high risk for a sudden cardiac arrest based on my ejection fraction and the fact that 90 days of medication/treatment has to elapse before insurance will pay for an implantable defibrillator, what would I do? I have a job, a family, a life to get back to. I would want some security that if I have a deadly arrhythmia, suddenly, (hence the term sudden cardiac arrest, in case you didn't put two and two together, you seem a little slow) that something could be done, or attempted. if it were 60% or 1% chance of saving my life. Your % is wrong by the way, but I feel as if I am educating you enough, I have a job to do. Save lives. (No, I do not work for this company)

I recommend that you pick up a book.
 






Anonymous said:
I really hope you are not in the cardiology field working with doctors or patients. To assume that a VT would break at 150 bpm is a ludicrous assumption. The parameters for shocking are programmable. These vests are not just placed on anyone. You obviously have surface knowledge. Enough to be a danger to a patient.

If I were a patient, and I was told that I was a high risk for a sudden cardiac arrest based on my ejection fraction and the fact that 90 days of medication/treatment has to elapse before insurance will pay for an implantable defibrillator, what would I do? I have a job, a family, a life to get back to. I would want some security that if I have a deadly arrhythmia, suddenly, (hence the term sudden cardiac arrest, in case you didn't put two and two together, you seem a little slow) that something could be done, or attempted. if it were 60% or 1% chance of saving my life. Your % is wrong by the way, but I feel as if I am educating you enough, I have a job to do. Save lives. (No, I do not work for this company)

I recommend that you pick up a book.
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You don't work for LifeVest my ass!!!

The poster's percentage you are responding to may be wrong, but only slightly. Here is the latest stats straight from ZOLL corporate:

Patients (cumulative) - 150,014
Patient saves - 2041

As it seems like I am already educating YOU too much, I should probably not point out that those numbers equate to a small 1.3% save rate...

Furthermore, cardiologists will tell you VT does not equal sudden cardiac arrest and that VT will, at times, terminate on its own (hence the response buttons on the LifeVest)!

Lastly, I cannot envision any scenario where a 1% chance of death is considered high risk!?!? EP's preform ablations daily/routinely and they carry a 1% chance or death.
 






In crunching those numbers how many saves were the result of prior cardiac result dx or infected lead/device
Once you back those guys out the save % gets smaller for primary prevention
 






Anonymous said:
In crunching those numbers how many saves were the result of prior cardiac result dx or infected lead/device
Once you back those guys out the save % gets smaller for primary prevention
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Agreed! I would not argue that the patients that ZOLL is trying to identify for primary prevention are incorrect, rather the time interval (AKA CMS waiting period) is too short for enough events to occur to make the LifeVest a valuable tool for physicians!

The high cost for the low save rate is the issue.

Everyone entertain me for a bit:

If every insurance company paid $1,000 for each patient that has worn the LifeVest (in most cases it's more then that...double perhaps), that equals $150,014,000 to "save" 2041 lives. Yes I am sure those families that truly did have a loved one saved are grateful, but paying ~$300,000,000 to accomplish that is simply too much!

Also, factoring in the copays from the patients, it is probably in the ballpark of ~$400,000,000 to save 2041 lives...
 






quick question, why haven't you opened your database for full review? I wonder how many true events were pts on a second event (old MI) (> 6months) as the survival curves once again diverge on SCD risk at this point as well (sub-endocardial scarring, valvular) (MADITT, ScDHeFT). How many of these patients had an event in a vest past the waiting period. I mean its great you picked them up but doesn't it bode the argument for earlier ICD therapy. With a save percentage <0.8% it just doesn't make sense to cover a population with this device period. Look at the surveillance data out of Cedars Sinai, Minnesota, cripes even Framingham. AED's public surveillance, and ICD's for an at risk cohort. The best of the vest is behind. The device is mature and declining. ASP's will only go down...along with utilization. Ever wonder why Zoll pushes IVTM more so in the Chain of resuscitation with nary a word regarding vest in the literature.......discussions of cost are merely a surrogate of quality but data is data and until you have some then all you have is an unproven concept (I am not talking about defibrillation energy or waveforms) ripe to be extinguished. Also please for the sake of self-respect....leave the trite analogies about parachutes, bears in the woods, airbags etc. in the parking lot where they belong.
 






Anonymous said:
quick question, why haven't you opened your database for full review? I wonder how many true events were pts on a second event (old MI) (> 6months) as the survival curves once again diverge on SCD risk at this point as well (sub-endocardial scarring, valvular) (MADITT, ScDHeFT). How many of these patients had an event in a vest past the waiting period. I mean its great you picked them up but doesn't it bode the argument for earlier ICD therapy. With a save percentage <0.8% it just doesn't make sense to cover a population with this device period. Look at the surveillance data out of Cedars Sinai, Minnesota, cripes even Framingham. AED's public surveillance, and ICD's for an at risk cohort. The best of the vest is behind. The device is mature and declining. ASP's will only go down...along with utilization. Ever wonder why Zoll pushes IVTM more so in the Chain of resuscitation with nary a word regarding vest in the literature.......discussions of cost are merely a surrogate of quality but data is data and until you have some then all you have is an unproven concept (I am not talking about defibrillation energy or waveforms) ripe to be extinguished. Also please for the sake of self-respect....leave the trite analogies about parachutes, bears in the woods, airbags etc. in the parking lot where they belong.
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Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!!!

This is EXACTLY what well informed, educated physicians believe! If I've heard the above (paraphrased) once, I've heard it 1000 times!

Of course, this device still has usage/uptake because of ill informed physicians (what do you call the person who finished last in his/her medical school class...), nurse practitioners, ZOLL's lies, "patient capture", and playing on emotions. Without any of these factors no one would utilize the LifeVest...
 






its a salesmans product. Do your job with concentric selling and add value to your physician by educating them. WE have so many toolls in our bag. use them and stop bitchin.
 






Anonymous said:
its a salesmans product. Do your job with concentric selling and add value to your physician by educating them. WE have so many toolls in our bag. use them and stop bitchin.
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It's a salesmen's product. Do your job with concentric selling and add value to your physician by educating them. WE have so many tools in our SALES FORCE. Use them and stop bit chin.

There...I not only corrected your spelling/grammatical errors, I also corrected your wording error!
 












Name one tool? Show us the data? What study says the Lifevest saves life's within the first 30 days! Come on you got a tool ? The product has been out for 10 years and all we have is this could happen, this might happen, omg it probably will happen!! What bullshit. Hundreds of millions of wasted dollars to the health care system on a 1% save rate!!! Crap! What tool you going to use against that? Ask me a concentric question??? This is one of the biggest scams of the medical industry. In time! Oh yes in time! The company isn't adding reps and cutting territory size because of growth, or because they care about how much a rep can make here, it's because the clock is ticking. The jig is up. We are the 1200 dollar toilet seat of the medical industry. 70 percent of the reps here used there tool (resume) and got out before the smell attached to there clothes. The bitching will stop sir when jerks like you are exposed! And if you have a family think about your daughter little Susie. Maybe one day Susie will come down with a life threatening disease but daddy can't help! You see Susie daddy worked for a company that wasted all the money that could have been used to research your life threatening disease! So when, and if, and it probably does happen- pull out your tool and shove it up your a...
 






So I read how you rep's do your job to sell the product, let me post from the other side of the fence, from the clinical side.

So around 100,000 a year are fitted and there is a 1% save rate. Of those 100,000 patients fitted, how many patients had arrhythmias that were treated, and how many of those treated arrhythmias were successful?

I don't see any of you answering the above question...

Ive worked in clinical EP cardiology for 7 years now, have had plenty of patients fitted with LifeVest and thankfully none of them have had to be defib'd. But you know what, the patients were happy to have at least a chance at being saved if they did have a life threatening arrhythmia.

There is always a chance that any device will fail, even the implantable PM/ICD/CRT-D have issues, rare, but they do. I've actually seen more patients for inappropriate implanted device therapy and never seen an inappropriate LifeVest therapies in my area.

Yes, its a niche product, yes the corporate structure is performance based. But you know what, technology isn't free, physicians and clinicians forget about products, and goals are often missed as we cannot predict how many patients are going to need devices like this. As preventative medicine improves, I see less people being fitted for LifeVest. But does that mean we slam the product and shelf it? Absolutely not. What we need are committed rep's who know their product, know cardiology and know that nothing is absolute, numbers change and you don't always win.
 






Ok so I call Bull on your perspective/post in an attempt to seem like your not a company agent. If I am wrong, I will gladly where a vest while mowing the lawn this weekend. First no one is debating the merits of the product. Yes it is an option, does work and is appropriate for certain pts. The issue at this point is the blatant greed by the company. The market estimates are so bloated they should be benched marked against US GDP $. The "performance" culture you speak of is nonsense. The product is oversold, over used (pts wear beyond 30 days). Good people are pressured to over sell the device. The company could give 2 bits about pt care. Ad a matter of fact once a pt goes beyond month 2, tech support delays support because it is no longer "ad profitable"(garments, psr visits). If the company really wanted to revolutionize SCD then they would have a contracting strategy to provide and drive access to care. Instead we have a managed care team made up of washed up crazy eyed booze hounds with zero ability or contacts. As for those areas doing 30 vests a week in areas of population 1-2Million with one or 2 400-600 bed hospitals please stay here. 1099 mid level providers sourcing and fitting pts may not be illegal technically but its a breach of ethics, a shameful business practice at best.
 






Anonymous said:
Good people are pressured to over sell the device.
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EXACTLY! The argument could be made that ANY selling of this device is overselling! Physicians/NP/PA have heard about and are aware of LifeVest by now (especially with the inundation of TM's through splits). If they believe a patient is TRULY at risk, believe in the LifeVest, and cannot implant they will use it!
 






Anonymous said:
Ive worked in clinical EP cardiology for 7 years now, have had plenty of patients fitted with LifeVest and thankfully none of them have had to be defib'd. But you know what, the patients were happy to have at least a chance at being saved if they did have a life threatening arrhythmia.
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So let me get this straight; you are "thankful" that 7 years of LifeVest use has resulted in ZERO treatment events?!?! Don't worry, I definitely believe you work in an EP clinic (wink, wink)!

I am sure that all those patients over the 7 years are thrilled with the discomfort, alarms, and (let's not forget) COPAYS (most times over $1000 per month) they have experienced using a device that has NEVER went off...
 






Anonymous said:
So I read how you rep's do your job to sell the product, let me post from the other side of the fence, from the clinical side.

So around 100,000 a year are fitted and there is a 1% save rate. Of those 100,000 patients fitted, how many patients had arrhythmias that were treated, and how many of those treated arrhythmias were successful?

I don't see any of you answering the above question...

Ive worked in clinical EP cardiology for 7 years now, have had plenty of patients fitted with LifeVest and thankfully none of them have had to be defib'd. But you know what, the patients were happy to have at least a chance at being saved if they did have a life threatening arrhythmia.

There is always a chance that any device will fail, even the implantable PM/ICD/CRT-D have issues, rare, but they do. I've actually seen more patients for inappropriate implanted device therapy and never seen an inappropriate LifeVest therapies in my area.

Yes, its a niche product, yes the corporate structure is performance based. But you know what, technology isn't free, physicians and clinicians forget about products, and goals are often missed as we cannot predict how many patients are going to need devices like this. As preventative medicine improves, I see less people being fitted for LifeVest. But does that mean we slam the product and shelf it? Absolutely not. What we need are committed rep's who know their product, know cardiology and know that nothing is absolute, numbers change and you don't always win.
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So answer the question.... From the clinical side which I also come from... Where is the CLINICAL information that shows the Lifevest statistically decreases mortality??? ICD haven't shown this, but show me the magic mr or mrs clinician??? Like I said you can talk all the crap you want about a patient who had a v fib arrest and was put on a Lifevest by a stupid Dr who then fibs again! Did you need a Lifevest? Or maybe the correct call would have been the ICD. Since your on the clinical side it's easy to see why you just dont get it !!! Nobody in this company thinks the Lifevest should not be on the market! X plants, v tach, lead wires etc terrific product. It's the fact mr or mrs clinician that your leaders think anyone with a pulse needs a vest!! Post cabg post PCI with just a low EF is BULLSHIT,! Remember one thing pigs get fed hogs get slaughtered. So your on the clinical side and have never seen an inappropriate vest???? WTF DO YOU WORK???? If Medicare ever performs a full house audit and compares the H&P that the company submits to the original copy in the chart.... We'll lets just say someone is going to owe some cash!!!! I see patients fit at least twice a week that DO NOT MEET CRITERIA but the Cracker Jack team inside reviewing paperwork decides to fit. Most have ischemic cardiomyopathy printed in big bold letters!!!! So put down the kook aid and try saving some health care money for those people who need it. Ps why don't you review all the CCR reports that come in every month and then come back and tell us a story about all the good things patients have to say!!!!
 






Anonymous said:
So let me get this straight; you are "thankful" that 7 years of LifeVest use has resulted in ZERO treatment events?!?! Don't worry, I definitely believe you work in an EP clinic (wink, wink)!

I am sure that all those patients over the 7 years are thrilled with the discomfort, alarms, and (let's not forget) COPAYS (most times over $1000 per month) they have experienced using a device that has NEVER went off...
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Yeah but scheduling apps. in EP cardiology is a little different than understanding who should wear the LV. Please only post if you have appropriate experience.
 






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