Vaccine expansion ?

Quote
























Internal people at Novartis have NO CHANCE. Thank you Novartis for looking out for your own! So why should I stay here or give you everything I have on every call or not trying to find another job with another company?
 






Raj Mehta (GSK) and Alec Ford (Novartis) are the other Regional Directors. Final DM interviews were last week in Dallas. Interviews for reps start in March. Recruiting is being done through Ventiv.

Vaccine sales people will get the first look. Outside sales experience is preferable to pharma. They want people who know how to close and get physicians to purchase which is a lot harder than getting them to write a prescription. I have seen some pharma people make the transition and do beautifully and others fail miserably. I'm not trying to slam the pharma reps because many of you have what it takes but it is very different from what you do now and requires ALOT more work.

You'll see people leave Merck and GSK because Novartis has the best vaccine pipeline in the industry. They'll have the opportunity to be part of a start up vaccine division and that is where all of the fun starts! GSK and Merck were fun when call reporting didn't drive their business and they were allowed to own their business (10 years ago). Menveo has better data than Menactra in a HEAD TO HEAD trial which is virtually unheard of in the vaccine world. Watch heads start to spin when Novartis picks off MVD, GSK and SA talent for the management pool.

The GSK rep should apply - you'll get an interview for sure.
 






Anonymous said:
Raj Mehta (GSK) and Alec Ford (Novartis) are the other Regional Directors. Final DM interviews were last week in Dallas. Interviews for reps start in March. Recruiting is being done through Ventiv.

Vaccine sales people will get the first look. Outside sales experience is preferable to pharma. They want people who know how to close and get physicians to purchase which is a lot harder than getting them to write a prescription. I have seen some pharma people make the transition and do beautifully and others fail miserably. I'm not trying to slam the pharma reps because many of you have what it takes but it is very different from what you do now and requires ALOT more work.

You'll see people leave Merck and GSK because Novartis has the best vaccine pipeline in the industry. They'll have the opportunity to be part of a start up vaccine division and that is where all of the fun starts! GSK and Merck were fun when call reporting didn't drive their business and they were allowed to own their business (10 years ago). Menveo has better data than Menactra in a HEAD TO HEAD trial which is virtually unheard of in the vaccine world. Watch heads start to spin when Novartis picks off MVD, GSK and SA talent for the management pool.

The GSK rep should apply - you'll get an interview for sure.
Click to expand...

I agree that you will see people leave Merck & GSK (Wyeth?) to join the vaccine expansion.
Vaccine sales are different but many tablet reps think they are the same, until they come over. This happened a lot the last few years at Merck and it SCREWED our culture.

The only thing I disagree is what the impact of better data head on will mean for Menveo. The CDC will still try to position the two products as interchangeable. They want a steady supply & our mistakes at Merck manufacturing have highlighted the issue even more.

Novartis has my resume and many other Merck ped reps who remember back five or more years ago what it was like having fun selling!

Good luck to all those that become part of this new team!
 






Anonymous said:
Raj Mehta (GSK) and Alec Ford (Novartis) are the other Regional Directors. Final DM interviews were last week in Dallas. Interviews for reps start in March. Recruiting is being done through Ventiv.

Vaccine sales people will get the first look. Outside sales experience is preferable to pharma. They want people who know how to close and get physicians to purchase which is a lot harder than getting them to write a prescription. I have seen some pharma people make the transition and do beautifully and others fail miserably. I'm not trying to slam the pharma reps because many of you have what it takes but it is very different from what you do now and requires ALOT more work.

You'll see people leave Merck and GSK because Novartis has the best vaccine pipeline in the industry. They'll have the opportunity to be part of a start up vaccine division and that is where all of the fun starts! GSK and Merck were fun when call reporting didn't drive their business and they were allowed to own their business (10 years ago). Menveo has better data than Menactra in a HEAD TO HEAD trial which is virtually unheard of in the vaccine world. Watch heads start to spin when Novartis picks off MVD, GSK and SA talent for the management pool.

The GSK rep should apply - you'll get an interview for sure.
Click to expand...

What about Novartis internal candidates? Please don't come on here and tell me that just because a person might have vaccine sales experience that that makes them automatically a better candidate. Is that experience helpful, sure it is. However there are a lot of extremely qualified internal candidates that would love to have these jobs and could do just as good of a job and anyone else. Research is invaluable. More antibodies with Menveo. An infant indication coming down to 2 years of age. Pricing, contracting, distributors, etc, etc. Believe me, it's not rocket science.

Funny how Alec Ford who was displaced with Novartis back in October got an RD position with ZERO vaccine experience. Now your saying that the rep positions will only be filled with vaccine experienced reps? What a crock and hypocritical of Ford. He should look in the mirror and realize how he landed on his feet when he wasn't necessarily qualified himself. If I don't get an interview as a very qualified rep with Novartis currently, then I will raise so much hell that it will get me fired, but I could care less. Novartis has shoved this whole "people-first" bullshit credo down our throats forever and this is a clear indication that they are hypocrites to the highest degree.
 






Anonymous said:
I agree that you will see people leave Merck & GSK (Wyeth?) to join the vaccine expansion.
Vaccine sales are different but many tablet reps think they are the same, until they come over. This happened a lot the last few years at Merck and it SCREWED our culture.

The only thing I disagree is what the impact of better data head on will mean for Menveo. The CDC will still try to position the two products as interchangeable. They want a steady supply & our mistakes at Merck manufacturing have highlighted the issue even more.

Novartis has my resume and many other Merck ped reps who remember back five or more years ago what it was like having fun selling!

Good luck to all those that become part of this new team!
Click to expand...

I am one of those MVD folks who hate the job now as the division is run by tablet people. It was a fun run now it is just a job. If Bill D was able to be removed, that just shows you how clueless those that renamed MVD to MVID are. Good luck to you all.
 






This post is likely the most accurate one here....having done both pharma and vaccines, they are incredibly different. I'm guessing there is way too much riding on the for Novartis to hire anyone other than individuals who have the experience and can hit the ground running.




Anonymous said:
I would consider myself a pretty well informed vaccine industry insider who has worked for both GSK and Merck (not a sales rep), here is my perspective on the Novartis vaccine situation. First, let me say I understand what the Novartis pharma reps are thinking at this point and this post is not to attack them or burst their hope of getting those new vaccine jobs. Rather, my post is too add to the meaningful discussion. I certainly can't blame any pharma rep for hoping this is their opportunity to get out of being a pharma rep and into a growing vaccine market that has more direct sales responsibility and is a safer place due to robust pipelines, especially the one at Novartis.
My thoughts are that Novartis is going to get this expansion right, let me explain further. I really feel they are going to hire the right people with the right mix of experience (private and public sector vaccine experience) and learn from the mistakes of other companies and their commercial models and vaccine product launches. They clearly have taken their time with the expansion so they don't jump the gun like Merck and even GSK, having people doing market development for 6 months with no product. They also have already cherry picked PED marketing talent from Merck to head up Menveo (I am not naming names or initials but those who work inside at Merck know who it is) I won't go into detail on the other mistakes at Merck but any Merck vaccine person reading this knows exactly what I am referring too in the sense of ruining a great division by mixing pharma and vaccines together and bringing in pharma leadership with zero vaccine experience. GSK apparently is shaking things up as well but is faced with issues due to product delays etc.
It will also be no surprise to see a certain recently displaced senior level person from Merck Vaccines as one of the directors of sales. In fact sources I have nearly confirmed that one of the three directors is in fact a former Merck Ped SBD (again not naming names) who will run the West region. With that said, I agree totally with the poster who points out the differences of pharma vs. vaccines, and to my point of Novartis getting this right, I think that the new vaccine Novartis district managers will consist of Merck, GSK, and SA vaccine managers. It will be easy to find Ped and PCP vaccine managers at Merck who are willing to leave for the shear opportunity of being in a small division again, new leadership and having new product bonus potential again which was so nice during all of Merck's vaccine launches. I am sure the same can be said for GSK vaccine managers who want a change or see the HPV battle as already lost due to delay perceptions. Perhaps they keep a few high potential Novartis pharma managers who have an interest in the job or an inside connection. It is my opinion though that pharma reps with no vaccine experience have little to no chance since it is my belief that the district managers and directors know the unique differences between pharma/vaccines and will not make that mistake. In this job environment and with all the vaccine experience that will likely apply for the jobs it would make no sense to hire a pharma rep and wait 6-8 months for them to figure it out and learn the in's and out's of the vaccine business. There is also instant credibility going into an office with vaccine knowledge. During Merck's expansion they moved pharma people over and while some "got it" and loved it when it came to selling vaccines, many people struggled with the transition and didn't like closing a customer for an order of x doses on the spot and preferred the softer pharma sale and being in clusters of 4 people with very limited direct accountability. In vaccines, numbers are instant and you likely the only person promoting your product so there is no hiding and waiting 3 months for data. There are going to be people, likely pharma reps, who disagree with me and thats fine, I would just simply say you are grossly misinformed of the differences of pharma/vaccines. I do recognize there are really good sales people "stuck" in pharma sales and I feel your pain, for I was in your position back in the day but was very lucky to break out with persistence, luck, politics and performance.
This will be an interesting case study looking back to see if Novartis gets this right, again I think they will. However, if they don't get it right, they have no one to blame because they had the talent pool and recent launch examples to model and learn from. I wish everyone luck in these challenging times and for those who apply and don't the jobs at Novartis, remember that the vaccine reps and managers from GSK, SA, and Merck will likely need to be replaced so there will still be opportunities to get into vaccines elsewhere. Good luck!
Click to expand...
 






Anonymous said:
This post is likely the most accurate one here....having done both pharma and vaccines, they are incredibly different. I'm guessing there is way too much riding on the for Novartis to hire anyone other than individuals who have the experience and can hit the ground running.
Click to expand...

Just curious. How does one go about getting that all important vaccines sales experience? Oh yeah, that's right. Someone or somebody gives them a shot and they learn and they can be successful. Don't underestimate our intelligence, we know that selling a pill or capsules or a patch is different than selling vaccines. I mean are you serious? Maybe people in your respective organizations didn't know the difference but we do because we have been following this ever since the acquisition of Chiron. Oh and another thing, it's not rocket science so get over your self-indulgent self. Funny how all of you vaccine people from Merck, GSK and SP are telling us internal Novartis people (in which many of us are president's club winners, etc) that we absolutely must have vaccine experience to even remotely be successful yet when all of you had to get that first opportunity in vaccines yourselves you didn't have that experience either, right? Hypocritical is being kind to you people as well to the management of Novartis. Cause let me explain something to you external vaccine people coming over...you see for years Novartis has force fed the credo of "people first" down our throats forever and guess what...they are simply full of crap and hypocritical to say the least. I hope you people fuck it up! It would serve Novartis and you arrogant vaccine people from other companies right!
 






Anonymous said:
Just curious. How does one go about getting that all important vaccines sales experience? Oh yeah, that's right. Someone or somebody gives them a shot and they learn and they can be successful. Don't underestimate our intelligence, we know that selling a pill or capsules or a patch is different than selling vaccines. I mean are you serious? Maybe people in your respective organizations didn't know the difference but we do because we have been following this ever since the acquisition of Chiron. Oh and another thing, it's not rocket science so get over your self-indulgent self. Funny how all of you vaccine people from Merck, GSK and SP are telling us internal Novartis people (in which many of us are president's club winners, etc) that we absolutely must have vaccine experience to even remotely be successful yet when all of you had to get that first opportunity in vaccines yourselves you didn't have that experience either, right? Hypocritical is being kind to you people as well to the management of Novartis. Cause let me explain something to you external vaccine people coming over...you see for years Novartis has force fed the credo of "people first" down our throats forever and guess what...they are simply full of crap and hypocritical to say the least. I hope you people fuck it up! It would serve Novartis and you arrogant vaccine people from other companies right!
Click to expand...

Years ago, vaccines were an after-thought at the major companies, a public service. Then, more vaccines were approved, prices for them were quite high, and a lot of money was being made. That is when MVD was taken over and destroyed. Vaccine experience was not as important back then because there was not a lot at stake, unlike now. Good luck to you.
 






Anonymous said:
Just curious. How does one go about getting that all important vaccines sales experience? Oh yeah, that's right. Someone or somebody gives them a shot and they learn and they can be successful. Don't underestimate our intelligence, we know that selling a pill or capsules or a patch is different than selling vaccines. I mean are you serious? Maybe people in your respective organizations didn't know the difference but we do because we have been following this ever since the acquisition of Chiron. Oh and another thing, it's not rocket science so get over your self-indulgent self. Funny how all of you vaccine people from Merck, GSK and SP are telling us internal Novartis people (in which many of us are president's club winners, etc) that we absolutely must have vaccine experience to even remotely be successful yet when all of you had to get that first opportunity in vaccines yourselves you didn't have that experience either, right? Hypocritical is being kind to you people as well to the management of Novartis. Cause let me explain something to you external vaccine people coming over...you see for years Novartis has force fed the credo of "people first" down our throats forever and guess what...they are simply full of crap and hypocritical to say the least. I hope you people fuck it up! It would serve Novartis and you arrogant vaccine people from other companies right!
Click to expand...

The difference is we were able to come on board and learn from others who had vaccine experience. As I said on an earlier post if you mix experienced with tablet people you can do OK. It is not rocket science, but it is DIFFERENT!!
It takes time to adjust & gain a different mind set. The problem is that if everybody in the group tries to sell vccines like tablets, ALL of you will fail. I have seen some tablet people new to a team of ten vaccine people do well & others could not adjust. Personality and style matter in each case.
I do hope that internal candidate are mixed with experienced people. What I DO NOT agree with is making management all tablet people. That would be a huge mistake. Let the mistakes & learning be at the rep level, not strategy making level.

Good luck, I hope that helps clarify external opinions. We are not trying to ruin your chances, but you need a mix of experince to succeed with a new vaccine.

Many of us have long time relationships also and have built trust in discussing vaccine issues. When a group spends $3 million dollars with you they like to know you understand the issues. In tablets, they are not spending millions with you.
 






Anonymous said:
The difference is we were able to come on board and learn from others who had vaccine experience. As I said on an earlier post if you mix experienced with tablet people you can do OK. It is not rocket science, but it is DIFFERENT!!
It takes time to adjust & gain a different mind set. The problem is that if everybody in the group tries to sell vccines like tablets, ALL of you will fail. I have seen some tablet people new to a team of ten vaccine people do well & others could not adjust. Personality and style matter in each case.
I do hope that internal candidate are mixed with experienced people. What I DO NOT agree with is making management all tablet people. That would be a huge mistake. Let the mistakes & learning be at the rep level, not strategy making level.

Good luck, I hope that helps clarify external opinions. We are not trying to ruin your chances, but you need a mix of experince to succeed with a new vaccine.

Many of us have long time relationships also and have built trust in discussing vaccine issues. When a group spends $3 million dollars with you they like to know you understand the issues. In tablets, they are not spending millions with you.
Click to expand...


Novartis has already hired three out the four RD's from external companies and all 20 managers from external companies. Novartis will have a major mutiny on their hands if they don't even allow well qualified internal reps to at least have an opportunity to interview let alone get these positions and word has it that that is the way it's going to play out. And thank you for echoing my earlier statement that this isn't rocket science so internal candidates, at least the high performers, could do just fine. And there are plenty of high performers inside Novartis that could seel circles around you experienced reps for sure!
 






Anonymous said:
Novartis has already hired three out the four RD's from external companies and all 20 managers from external companies. Novartis will have a major mutiny on their hands if they don't even allow well qualified internal reps to at least have an opportunity to interview let alone get these positions and word has it that that is the way it's going to play out. And thank you for echoing my earlier statement that this isn't rocket science so internal candidates, at least the high performers, could do just fine. And there are plenty of high performers inside Novartis that could seel circles around you experienced reps for sure!
Click to expand...

I agree with you except for your last shot at externals. There are plenty of talented people in all areas. But if you take a ten year, award winning rep in vaccines VS a ten year award winning cadiovascular specialty rep, who do you think would win??
You are correct, the experinece of each would win out in their specialty, but not cross over. They are TWO DIFFERENT sells. If you disagree then you are telling me a great dermatology rep could walk into your offices and know all the science, competitors, history, relationships etc that you developed for years??

That again is why you need some experinced reps from external. They have sold vaccines & have relationships with the different people you call on to sell a vaccine.
One clue for you, the doctor often does not make the brand decision on a vaccine. That is only part of why it is different. Heres a few others :contracts, supply, ACIP, reimbursement issues , public health departments, VFC, etc.
 


















Anonymous said:
I am one of those MVD folks who hate the job now as the division is run by tablet people. It was a fun run now it is just a job. If Bill D was able to be removed, that just shows you how clueless those that renamed MVD to MVID are. Good luck to you all.
Click to expand...

Remember Bill Darnells team was last in the nation with Gardasil and Rota. Being nice and havine knowledge do not make you a competitive sales lead.
 






Anonymous said:
Remember Bill Darnells team was last in the nation with Gardasil and Rota. Being nice and havine knowledge do not make you a competitive sales lead.
Click to expand...


Oh, you don't think the three stooges set him up to fail? Did you notice Perez was 150% to plan years in a row? They break out the national numbers to the regions with a lot of tweaking. Typical tablet rep believing the objective is set correctly some magical way!

Bill had half the country at one time and we had EX ratings from corporate. Everyone will work extra to help Bill. You can take that to the bank!!

Darnall correct spelling.
 






Anonymous said:
Oh, you don't think the three stooges set him up to fail? Did you notice Perez was 150% to plan years in a row? They break out the national numbers to the regions with a lot of tweaking. Typical tablet rep believing the objective is set correctly some magical way!

Bill had half the country at one time and we had EX ratings from corporate. Everyone will work extra to help Bill. You can take that to the bank!!

Darnall correct spelling.
Click to expand...

EX ratings for like 6 of 7 years or something like that. I wish I was coming over but too well entrenched at MViD. I call it MViD as there are Many Vaccines in Distress.

As far as Perez being so high in the numbers, a lot went on at national level, and even more at district. It was to the three stooges advantage for Mid-Atlantic and Bill to fail. New England was helped along at disadvantage to a few other districts in northeast region. Notice how most award winners from from 1-2 districts for 2 years? That tells you either they were doing well and everyone else sucked or there were other things in play. It was latter- Vaqta was shut out in NE so they were judged on Gardasil only first year and objective was low.
 






Top Bottom
Back
Quote