Idorsia contract

[anonymous]

What a great regional meeting we just finished. Q going for 1st line therapy, creating a developmental program for reps to advance to managers and above when the average rep age is 50 years old, skating through the IC slide that says if you are on warning letter you are not eligible for bonuses, left overs for most meals, mentioning collapsing numerous territories when we are being told how great Q is doing, and a 25 dollar per rep for district dinners. This is a great place to be!

How long do you not get bonuses if you have a warning letter?

 

[anonymous]

Is there anyone not 100% miserable here? I get it that it’s a crappy contract but for all I know it’s the same person posting all the miserable posts. Bottom
line is that I am out of work and need something to pay the bills.

 

[anonymous]

Is there anyone not 100% miserable here? I get it that it’s a crappy contract but for all I know it’s the same person posting all the miserable posts. Bottom
line is that I am out of work and need something to pay the bills.

Out of work and need to pay the bills! Then why the fuck are you asking if it is good or bad take the job and find out.

 

[anonymous]

Is there anyone not 100% miserable here? I get it that it’s a crappy contract but for all I know it’s the same person posting all the miserable posts. Bottom
line is that I am out of work and need something to pay the bills.

Get on the independent contractor work apps and start hustling. Humble yourself, do some jobs you don't like, and make some money to get by until you secure something better. By the way, Pharma rep jobs, and the industry, is a shit show these days. You're best to prepare an exit strategy. Being micromanaged with the risk of being laid-off or managed out every year is no way to live one's life and not an intelligent way to earn a living these days. You want to keep riding the rollercoaster of unemployment, agonizing job searches, and working short-lived jobs in a shrinking industry? Be my guest. I did it for years and finally escaped by changing careers - you can, too.

 

[anonymous]

Is there anyone not 100% miserable here? I get it that it’s a crappy contract but for all I know it’s the same person posting all the miserable posts. Bottom
line is that I am out of work and need something to pay the bills.

It isn't just one person. My whole team is miserable and many others we know. I think it is just wishful thinking that the re-hires "hope" none of this is true. Then why are you taking someone's spot who left only a few months into the launch? Why are so many positions open now due to people quitting?

I suggest finding some reps on LinkedIn past and current to talk to if you don't believe it.

Crappy contract is one thing. They sent out warning letters to terminate people only 2.5 months into the launch. Now they are looking to downsize. You might not even make it past a few months. I would rather take the few months and keep trying to search for a better pharna job where you are given a real chance and might last longer and get treated better.

I don't see Idorsia keeping more than 200 reps next year. The drug isn't doing well. How can they afford to keep 400+ reps with all these rehires probably in bad territories where the rep quit due to having bad numbers/put on a warning letter due to it/territory not able to perform.

 

[anonymous]

Get on the independent contractor work apps and start hustling. Humble yourself, do some jobs you don't like, and make some money to get by until you secure something better. By the way, Pharma rep jobs, and the industry, is a shit show these days. You're best to prepare an exit strategy. Being micromanaged with the risk of being laid-off or managed out every year is no way to live one's life and not an intelligent way to earn a living these days. You want to keep riding the rollercoaster of unemployment, agonizing job searches, and working short-lived jobs in a shrinking industry? Be my guest. I did it for years and finally escaped by changing careers - you can, too.

Then what the heck are doing on this page?

 

[anonymous]

It isn't just one person. My whole team is miserable and many others we know. I think it is just wishful thinking that the re-hires "hope" none of this is true. Then why are you taking someone's spot who left only a few months into the launch? Why are so many positions open now due to people quitting?

I suggest finding some reps on LinkedIn past and current to talk to if you don't believe it.

Crappy contract is one thing. They sent out warning letters to terminate people only 2.5 months into the launch. Now they are looking to downsize. You might not even make it past a few months. I would rather take the few months and keep trying to search for a better pharna job where you are given a real chance and might last longer and get treated better.

I don't see Idorsia keeping more than 200 reps next year. The drug isn't doing well. How can they afford to keep 400+ reps with all these rehires probably in bad territories where the rep quit due to having bad numbers/put on a warning letter due to it/territory not able to perform.

Thank you for the honest answer.

 

[anonymous]

My best advice for those interviewing:

I would highly suggest asking the recruiter or hiring manager what the territory is pulling in currently for scripts. I think the national average is in the 40s now (does anyone know?). You could ask them what the national average is and what the territory is at. If you are under that by (I'd say) 10 to 15 or more, you will have a target on your back from day one. This way, you are dealing with facts and not just Cafepharma. The company only cares about the national script number and nothing else. Your territory either has it and can get to it, or it does not. If you can't get it to that number, your life will be hell here/you might not last/you might get a warning letter threatening your employment/you might eventually be downsized.

I would also ask the recruiter or hiring manager why the last rep left. This info will tell you everything. Better yet, hunt down the last rep on LinkedIn and get the truth. If it's a territory with a low script number, then the rep probably left due to getting one of the warning letters and the territory can't produce. Unless you feel that the rep wasn't working or not effective and you can do better, don't take a bad territory. You won't be able to be successful either. But just know that Idorsia spent months trying to hire the best. Most of the people they originally hired were veteran reps with lots of prior success and awards. I highly doubt they hired 480 reps who aren't working and can't sell. If a recruiter or hiring manager tells you the prior rep in the territory was awful, I'd be wary.

Next, if the rep left and the territory IS producing numbers, then they probably left due to the other problems mentioned in the 88 pages on CP. Then it is up to you if you need a paycheck that badly to handle it. Maybe you can and it won't bother you.

This is a start up. The company is trying to figure out which territories are viable while they use you in the process. I'm sure they will have it figured out in a year or so and be down to 100 reps who have potential by expanding territories. But, right now, there are about 200-300 too many reps with too few script potential.

So, to recap: Issue number one can't be overcome. Don't think it can. Issue number two will be a headache but more up to you with what you want to put up with. This is my best advice.

 

[anonymous]

I don't see Idorsia keeping more than 200 reps next year. The drug isn't doing well.

I agree with the first point, but not the second. The current number of reps, 450+, is too high. ..They launched w/ 450 to see which territories were viable and which were not. ..I suspect that early in 2023 they'll scale back the number of reps considerably (half?), then increase the size of the territories for those who remain.

The drug IS doing well; it's blown past Dayvigo and is about to over take Belsomera. ..No small feat. Is it meeting Idorsia's expectations? ..Tough to say. If you compare current scripts/ territory avg. to the T2 objective of 133, then no. ..But I suspect they knew that objective was utterly ridiculous. Who knows what their true expectation was.

The drug is good. ..It's safer than the Z-drugs and works better than the other (also safer) DORA's due to it's shorter half-live. ...Is it a game changer? ..Who knows. But few drugs are these days.

Would I take this job today knowing how much I'll be micromanaged and how quickly they'll start sending out threatening letters? ..No.

 

[anonymous]

The above thread hit the nail on the head..
Well said and thanks for posting! good luck to all!
God speed ..

 

[anonymous]

"The drug IS doing well; it's blown past Dayvigo and is about to over take Belsomera. ..No small feat. Is it meeting Idorsia's expectations? ..Tough to say. If you compare current scripts/ territory avg. to the T2 objective of 133, then no. ..But I suspect they knew that objective was utterly ridiculous. Who knows what their true expectation was."

Fair statement. But Belsomra & Dayvigo never did well and had to get rid of their salesforce, correct? I don't believe they have reps selling. Or, not many. So, is Q. doing a little better than these two that great where a sales team is sustainable for long term?

 

[anonymous]

I agree with the first point, but not the second. The current number of reps, 450+, is too high. ..They launched w/ 450 to see which territories were viable and which were not. ..I suspect that early in 2023 they'll scale back the number of reps considerably (half?), then increase the size of the territories for those who remain.

The drug IS doing well; it's blown past Dayvigo and is about to over take Belsomera. ..No small feat. Is it meeting Idorsia's expectations? ..Tough to say. If you compare current scripts/ territory avg. to the T2 objective of 133, then no. ..But I suspect they knew that objective was utterly ridiculous. Who knows what their true expectation was.

The drug is good. ..It's safer than the Z-drugs and works better than the other (also safer) DORA's due to it's shorter half-live. ...Is it a game changer? ..Who knows. But few drugs are these days.

Would I take this job today knowing how much I'll be micromanaged and how quickly they'll start sending out threatening letters? ..No.

Lets be real. We sell. I personally can sell anything. But the actual product is just part of the job. It’s the company, the manager, the territory, the coverage and the competition especially generics. So in this equation only the product is good. That equates to not taking the job!

 

[anonymous]

Lets be real. We sell. I personally can sell anything. But the actual product is just part of the job. It’s the company, the manager, the territory, the coverage and the competition especially generics. So in this equation only the product is good. That equates to not taking the job!

A great salesperson masquerading as a contract pharma rep.

 

[anonymous]

I feel bad for people out of work looking for a job who feel desperate for a paycheck; therefore, they feel they should take this job. That was me in January when I took this job. I regret it so much. But now I am doing what I should have done in January and giving myself more time to find a GOOD opportunity. So, I left. I don't care if it takes me months to find a job. It's what I should have done back then. This job shouldn't even be hiring. They JUST hired 400+ reps less than a year ago as a new team! How does anyone interviewing not find it strange that they are hiring all over again?? That's the only reason why this job seems so tempting....because they have so many positions to hire for again! If everything was going well as stated above (drug, coverage, manager, territory, company) then there wouldn't be spots to even interview for less than one year in. That new team would all be thriving.

 

[anonymous]

A great salesperson masquerading as a contract pharma rep.

what are you saying exactly? Are you saying that working for a big Pharma co, rather than a contract, is better?? ..Sorry, but it isn't. If so, how???

Big pharma companies will trim their work force just as arbitrarily as a contract co. That wasn't the case a decade ago, but it is now.

And the hurdles people had to jump to get this "launch" position were greater than any big pharma job I know of. ..5-7 interviews!!! Only to find they begin sending threatening letters just 2.5 mos after the drug is actually writable.

 

[anonymous]

Lets be real. We sell. I personally can sell anything. But the actual product is just part of the job. It’s the company, the manager, the territory, the coverage and the competition especially generics. So in this equation only the product is good. That equates to not taking the job!

I agree. Was merely pointing out that the drug is good.

Will be a shame if Idorsia allows a solid new drug in the sleep med market fail b/c they horribly mismanaged the sales force.

Wasn't able to attend but hear attendance at regional meetings was light with many empty seats. And lot's of negativity. Not so surprising considering so many reps either received letters or knew they soon would.

 

[anonymous]

How can they afford to keep 400+ reps with all these rehires probably in bad territories where the rep quit due to having bad numbers/put on a warning letter due to it/territory not able to perform.

If the DM's were honest they'd tell mgt. that many of these territories aren't deserving of a rep. ..But why would a DM say that? They know that if they have fewer reps to manage that mgt. might combine territories and get rid of a DM. So no DM is going to be honest about territory viability.

Instead, they'll tell management that the rep just wasn't up to the job. ..That they (ie., the DM) needs to hire someone with better selling skills, etc.

 

[anonymous]

what are you saying exactly? Are you saying that working for a big Pharma co, rather than a contract, is better?? ..Sorry, but it isn't. If so, how???

Big pharma companies will trim their work force just as arbitrarily as a contract co. That wasn't the case a decade ago, but it is now.

And the hurdles people had to jump to get this "launch" position were greater than any big pharma job I know of. ..5-7 interviews!!! Only to find they begin sending threatening letters just 2.5 mos after the drug is actually writable.

They both suck, but at least big pharma give some type of severance where contract company you will be lucky to get 2 weeks pay.

 

[anonymous]

what are you saying exactly? Are you saying that working for a big Pharma co, rather than a contract, is better?? ..Sorry, but it isn't. If so, how???

Big pharma companies will trim their work force just as arbitrarily as a contract co. That wasn't the case a decade ago, but it is now.

And the hurdles people had to jump to get this "launch" position were greater than any big pharma job I know of. ..5-7 interviews!!! Only to find they begin sending threatening letters just 2.5 mos after the drug is actually writable.

Here’s a couple of “how’s” for you -contract vs big pharma.

1. 20-40k diff in base salary, depending on experience.
2. 401k match more competitive
3. True vacation starts at 15 days , sick days are in a different category, vs 18 days “PTO”
4. Many big pharma companies have “dead weeks” IE week between Christmas and New Years off. Some have a dead week during the summer as well.
5. Better insurance.
6. 35k or greater bonus plans.
7. If you are tenured/experienced , big pharma more times than not will bring you in as a Sr rep/ executive rep level and consider your contributions elsewhere.Not so here.
8….anyone else care to add to this???

 

[anonymous]

Here’s a couple of “how’s” for you -contract vs big pharma.

1. 20-40k diff in base salary, depending on experience.
2. 401k match more competitive
3. True vacation starts at 15 days , sick days are in a different category, vs 18 days “PTO”
4. Many big pharma companies have “dead weeks” IE week between Christmas and New Years off. Some have a dead week during the summer as well.
5. Better insurance.
6. 35k or greater bonus plans.
7. If you are tenured/experienced , big pharma more times than not will bring you in as a Sr rep/ executive rep level and consider your contributions elsewhere.Not so here.
8….anyone else care to add to this???

9. Severance