60 Minutes





At 60.2%, Denmark last year had the highest top personal income tax rate among the 34 countries in the OECD, an organization of developed and emerging countries. And that 60.2% applied to income over roughly $55,000.

Man... Who knew "Free" could be so expensive?!?

What do you think the combined state & federal rates are especially in placed like NY , CA & IL is ? Over 50% not including all the 'hidden' taxes on fuel, utilities, phones, booze, smokes, weed & of course property, sales taxes, etc. plus the tax on your stupidity. Dolt.
How else can medicare afford to give pharma hundreds of billions in profits if not for the banning of re-importations & the bribery that prevented medicare to negotiate drug prices like the VA without that very high tax rate.
 




What do you think the combined state & federal rates are especially in placed like NY , CA & IL is ? Over 50% not including all the 'hidden' taxes on fuel, utilities, phones, booze, smokes, weed & of course property, sales taxes, etc. plus the tax on your stupidity. Dolt.
How else can medicare afford to give pharma hundreds of billions in profits if not for the banning of re-importations & the bribery that prevented medicare to negotiate drug prices like the VA without that very high tax rate.

The 60% is on EVERYONE earning $55,000. People making $55000 and under even in CA are not paying 50%.
 




Oh my God, how many times to we have to address this propaganda. Yes, when you compare healthy people, who live healthy lifestyles to less healthy people... The healthy tend to live longer, healthier lives and generally require less medical attention, which means fewer medical bills and less healthcare costs generally. To then extrapolate those facts and believe that is has a direct correlation with a particular healthcare system is COMPLETE FOLLY.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)62355-7/fulltext

There have been two recent reports by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) investigating the USA's disappointing health record compared with other OECD countries. Deaton chose the one that emphasised smoking and medical care on which to base a chapter. The other report found that, compared to “peer countries”, the USA had worse health in nine domains: adverse birth outcomes, injuries and homicide, adolescent pregnancy, HIV/AIDS, drug-related mortality, obesity and diabetes, heart disease, chronic lung disease, and disability. These health disadvantages are bigger among socioeconomically disadvantaged groups. This NAS panel put much greater emphasis on adverse socioeconomic conditions than they did on smoking and lack of control of high blood pressure or cholesterol.

In The Great Escape, when discussing health in the modern world, taking the USA as his example, within-country inequalities in health make only fleeting appearances, and then because the benefits of treatment might not be readily diffused. It is not an important part of the book's focus that male life expectancy in the unhealthiest US county is 64 years, compared with 84 in the healthiest; the 20-year gap in 2010 compares unfavourably to a 12-year gap in 1985. This major feature of health in the modern world is largely overlooked, perhaps linked to the downplaying of the importance of adverse socioeconomic conditions as causes of health inequalities.
 




I am really struggling to find proof for this ridiculous claim:

It has been known that drugs are the fourth leading cause of death in the U.S.

This makes it clear that the more frightening number is that doctors are the third leading cause of death in this country, killing nearly a quarter million people a year.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

it's not that hard to find evidence to back up the claim. if anything, the claims are under-stated.


drugs:

from JAMA, 2000 (i know it's dated, but can't find a more recent one.):

http://www.avaresearch.com/ava-main-website/files/20100401061256.pdf?page=files/20100401061256.pdf

assuming no change from 2000 to 2010 (your CDC ref), we have 113,000 deaths estimated for medication errors and adverse events for hospitalized patients, putting "drugs" as the 6th leading cause of death.

however...

if we add in prescription drug overdoses/abuse excluding suicides (based on this 2010 study in JAMA - http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1653518), then we add 18,354 deaths to 113,000

= 131,354

= "drugs" are the 4th leading case of death.



doctors:

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals
It seems that every time researchers estimate how often a medical mistake contributes to a hospital patient’s death, the numbers come out worse.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media.

In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.

Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death, the study says.

That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyu2duUJvdc
 




http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)62355-7/fulltext

There have been two recent reports by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) investigating the USA's disappointing health record compared with other OECD countries. Deaton chose the one that emphasised smoking and medical care on which to base a chapter. The other report found that, compared to “peer countries”, the USA had worse health in nine domains: adverse birth outcomes, injuries and homicide, adolescent pregnancy, HIV/AIDS, drug-related mortality, obesity and diabetes, heart disease, chronic lung disease, and disability. These health disadvantages are bigger among socioeconomically disadvantaged groups. This NAS panel put much greater emphasis on adverse socioeconomic conditions than they did on smoking and lack of control of high blood pressure or cholesterol.

In The Great Escape, when discussing health in the modern world, taking the USA as his example, within-country inequalities in health make only fleeting appearances, and then because the benefits of treatment might not be readily diffused. It is not an important part of the book's focus that male life expectancy in the unhealthiest US county is 64 years, compared with 84 in the healthiest; the 20-year gap in 2010 compares unfavourably to a 12-year gap in 1985. This major feature of health in the modern world is largely overlooked, perhaps linked to the downplaying of the importance of adverse socioeconomic conditions as causes of health inequalities.

Perhaps if companies like Novartis didn't wig out their employees with micromanagement & annual layoffs there'd be less stress aka lower BP, depression, anxiety, lower MI, Stroke incidence & even reduced suicides like the 2 or 3 ex novartians resorted to in the last 5 or so years but of course that would reduce the need for pharmacological band aids so guess that's not in the works ;)
 








it's not that hard to find evidence to back up the claim. if anything, the claims are under-stated.


drugs:

from JAMA, 2000 (i know it's dated, but can't find a more recent one.):

http://www.avaresearch.com/ava-main-website/files/20100401061256.pdf?page=files/20100401061256.pdf

assuming no change from 2000 to 2010 (your CDC ref), we have 113,000 deaths estimated for medication errors and adverse events for hospitalized patients, putting "drugs" as the 6th leading cause of death.

however...

if we add in prescription drug overdoses/abuse excluding suicides (based on this 2010 study in JAMA - http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1653518), then we add 18,354 deaths to 113,000

= 131,354

= "drugs" are the 4th leading case of death.



doctors:

http://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals
It seems that every time researchers estimate how often a medical mistake contributes to a hospital patient’s death, the numbers come out worse.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media.

In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.

Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death, the study says.

That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyu2duUJvdc

That's all great except for the fact that it is WRONG.

Most recent CDC data

Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 596,577
Cancer: 576,691
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
Diabetes: 73,831
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 39,518
Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2011, table 10 [PDF - 1.5 MB]
 




What do you think the combined state & federal rates are especially in placed like NY , CA & IL is ? Over 50% not including all the 'hidden' taxes on fuel, utilities, phones, booze, smokes, weed & of course property, sales taxes, etc. plus the tax on your stupidity. Dolt.
How else can medicare afford to give pharma hundreds of billions in profits if not for the banning of re-importations & the bribery that prevented medicare to negotiate drug prices like the VA without that very high tax rate.

That is precisely why NY, CA and IL suck and why both businesses and citizens are fleeing those man-made hell holes. All run by DEMS by the way. Secondly, if their high taxes are paying for hundreds of billions in profits to pharma, then why are you also bitching about cost of drugs. I thought it was the high cost of drugs that made billions of profit for Pharma?
Lastly, a corrupt government, which bans re importation will be corrected by who or what? MORE GOVERNMENT, OF COURSE!?!

Yes, and let's PLEASE TALK ABOUT HOW THE VA NEGOTIATES PRICES. BECAUSE THE VA IS SUCH A GREAT MODEL FOR HEALTHCARE SUCCESS. LOL!
 




Perhaps if companies like Novartis didn't wig out their employees with micromanagement & annual layoffs there'd be less stress aka lower BP, depression, anxiety, lower MI, Stroke incidence & even reduced suicides like the 2 or 3 ex novartians resorted to in the last 5 or so years but of course that would reduce the need for pharmacological band aids so guess that's not in the works ;)

Aw yes, the logic of a 5 year old.... How whimsical.
 




The 60% is on EVERYONE earning $55,000. People making $55000 and under even in CA are not paying 50%.

Sweden is another great example of a country with a super high quality of life with free heath care, education, and elder care. This community model should be advanced in the US! The nordic countries are demonstrating a compassionate and advanced way of living together for their citizens.
 




Sweden is another great example of a country with a super high quality of life with free heath care, education, and elder care. This community model should be advanced in the US! The nordic countries are demonstrating a compassionate and advanced way of living together for their citizens.

Great... another example of a completely inconsequential country with a population roughly the size of Michigan. So they pay EXTREMELY high taxes, receive cradle to grave entitlements and are apparently happy with that. We don't roll like that in America. We value freedom and individual rights... remember, that's kind of the reason for America from inception. That's how America became the greatest, most consequential super-power in world history. And it happened relatively quickly. We know what works and what doesn't. Let's not repeat the mistakes of a failing Europe.
 




That's all great except for the fact that it is WRONG.

Most recent CDC data

Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 596,577
Cancer: 576,691
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 142,943
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,932
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 126,438
Alzheimer's disease: 84,974
Diabetes: 73,831
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,591
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 39,518
Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2011, table 10 [PDF - 1.5 MB]

/yawn.


simply saying something is wrong does not make it wrong.

you have neither offered nothing new to the discussion nor invalidated the figures and the synthesis thereof.
 




We value freedom and individual rights... remember, that's kind of the reason for America from inception. That's how America became the greatest, most consequential super-power in world history.

what about the native americans? so much for their freedoms and individual rights taken away through forced migrations and genocide.

That's how America became the greatest, most consequential super-power in world history.

America is not the greatest.
cue colonel chamberlain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs

And it happened relatively quickly. We know what works and what doesn't.

is that so?

Let's not repeat the mistakes of a failing Europe.

stop projecting.



now
your
turn...
 




Great... another example of a completely inconsequential country with a population roughly the size of Michigan. So they pay EXTREMELY high taxes, receive cradle to grave entitlements and are apparently happy with that. We don't roll like that in America. We value freedom and individual rights... remember, that's kind of the reason for America from inception. That's how America became the greatest, most consequential super-power in world history. And it happened relatively quickly. We know what works and what doesn't. Let's not repeat the mistakes of a failing Europe.

The wave is coming and you better be able to live in a progressive country that offers dignity and health to ALL of its citizens! The capitalist model was great in the 40s, 50, 60s. We are now evolving to a better form of government and life.
 




what about the native americans? so much for their freedoms and individual rights taken away through forced migrations and genocide.



America is not the greatest.
cue colonel chamberlain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs



is that so?



stop projecting.



now
your
turn...

Wow... America is not the greatest because of a TV clip? Come on MAN! I thought you were better than that. Wait... no I didn't.
What happened with Native Americans was unfortunate. I never said America was perfect. What I did say is.... No country has ever been greater in the history of the world. And it all happened in less than 250 year. It is absolutely REMARKABLE!!!

Now PLEASE... quit embarrassing yourself.
 




The wave is coming and you better be able to live in a progressive country that offers dignity and health to ALL of its citizens! The capitalist model was great in the 40s, 50, 60s. We are now evolving to a better form of government and life.

NOBODY can offer "Health" to anyone. MORON. Who does not get healthcare? Shit... we give that shit away to even illegal aliens. There has never been a more compassionate, giving, tolerant society EVER than America. Anything else you have to say is absolutely a denial of facts and reality. NOT PERFECT, but NONE BETTER EVER.
 




Gleevec should cost 2500 annually just like in India or Dr Reddy should be allowed to import it's generic here despite the whining & crying that Novartis does to the government
 




Gleevec should cost 2500 annually just like in India or Dr Reddy should be allowed to import it's generic here despite the whining & crying that Novartis does to the government

Who the fuck is Dr. Reddy? If you want shitty imports, go get them. If you can't get your shitty, precious imports then go bitch to your beloved government. Government will make everything right. Government is infallible. Government is all-knowing and all-caring.
 




/yawn.


simply saying something is wrong does not make it wrong.

you have neither offered nothing new to the discussion nor invalidated the figures and the synthesis thereof.

Ok... so I gave you official CDC facts which TOTALLY invalidate your BS and somehow you don't accept it. Nothing else can I do for you. Sorry.