Why would any AMERICAN who understands the FAILURE of SOCIALISM be for HC reform?

[Anonymous]

Ease up big boy. I know its going to be hard to come out to your folks, being a staunch republican and all...

Great minds of today like, maybe...yours? Yeah, you there on an anonymous message board, yes you. You are so much smarter than Al Gore and Michael. You were not VP, you were POTUS!. Your several movies have won more awards than Moore right? You betcha, your the smartest person around.

Your right I mean after all Gore invented the internet. Please do not bring Moore into this though. You bring down the intellectual level of ANY conversation when you inject that windbag assclown. He has exactly ZERO credibility on any of the issues he has spoke about. BTW, I don't need a degree in order to be smarter than Biden or Obama. I know that government doesn't create jobs, which is something they both seem to struggle with, see I'm smarter than them already.

 

[Anonymous]

Ease up big boy. I know its going to be hard to come out to your folks, being a staunch republican and all...

Great minds of today like, maybe...yours? Yeah, you there on an anonymous message board, yes you. You are so much smarter than Al Gore and Michael. You were not VP, you were POTUS!. Your several movies have won more awards than Moore right? You betcha, your the smartest person around.

Wow.... a retarded liberal trying to make fun of gays. I thought you folks were supposed to be all tolerant and what-not.

Never claimed to be the smartest, but I am smart enough to know that there are no intellectuals today that can compare to the Founding Fathers.

And thanks for not being willing and able to answer any of my questions.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow.... a retarded liberal trying to make fun of gays. I thought you folks were supposed to be all tolerant and what-not.

Never claimed to be the smartest, but I am smart enough to know that there are no intellectuals today that can compare to the Founding Fathers.

And thanks for not being willing and able to answer any of my questions.

The Deist founders of America would cringe at several things today, black emancipation, votes for women, the rabid attacks on the seperation of church and state.

The fact that Jefferson, Adams, Franklin etc were progressive in their time but things have moved on hugely and if they were born today, then I have no doubt they would be for universal coverage and would have utter, unabridged contempt for the theocrats of the Tea Party.

 

[Anonymous]

The Deist founders of America would cringe at several things today, black emancipation, votes for women, the rabid attacks on the seperation of church and state.

The fact that Jefferson, Adams, Franklin etc were progressive in their time but things have moved on hugely and if they were born today, then I have no doubt they would be for universal coverage and would have utter, unabridged contempt for the theocrats of the Tea Party.

You are an absolute MORON and have ZERO understanding about the founding of America.

 

[Anonymous]

You are an absolute MORON and have ZERO understanding about the founding of America.

So the founding fathers were for an established church, votes for women and blacks and frequent foreigns wars were they?

 

[Anonymous]

You are an absolute MORON and have ZERO understanding about the founding of America.

So the founding fathers were for an established church, votes for women and blacks and frequent foreign wars were they?

 

[Anonymous]

No but Michael Moore told me that it will make America's Healthcare great... just like CUBA. Are you a MORON or just a DRONE? This has nothing to do with FoxNews.... point me to the specific area in the Constitution where is ALLOWS the government to FORCE its citizens to BUY healthcare. Where is it? Does that even matter to you? Is the Constitution just something in which liberal-drones must find ways to circumvent and undermine? Oh wait.... here it is, just below the part where it ALLOWS for baby killing.

Admit it, you are a MORON that really doesn't care about the Constitutionality of this mandate.... you just want more "free" government handouts. Or maybe you are 26 about to turn 27 and Mommy and Daddy can't keep you on their healthcare plan anymore. Oooooh how scary, you might actually have to provide for yourself.

Point me to the area in the Constitution that says "all Americans who Own cars" must have car insurance!

 

[Anonymous]

In 2007, the U.S. spent $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person, up from $2.1 trillion, or $7,026 per capita, the previous year.[33] Spending in 2006 represented 16% of GDP, an increase of 6.7% over 2004 spending. Growth in spending is projected to average 6.7% annually over the period 2007 through 2017.

Here is the BIG difference and you MUST PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION: In America, Americans CHOOSE to spend on healthcare. That is to say that they CHOOSE to buy insurance or NOT to buy insurance. They CHOOSE to seek medical attention or NOT to get medical attention. They CHOOSE more expensive brand-name medicines or NOT to. These choices COST money. I guess you can say that it is part of the COST OF FREEDOM in America. In other countries they don’t get that choice. They don’t get immediate medical attention ALL the time. They don’t have the CHOICE of state-of-the-art medical treatment. As a result, their GOVERNMENT is able to control costs. They also limit treatment possibilities. It is true that most developed countries have very comparable life-expectancies. That is to say that you will live a long life in a country with socialized-medicine, however, often times you will wish you were dead. You will have LONG wait-times, inferior drugs with poor side-effect profiles and will have very little ability to redress grievances. In America we have placed at least an equal emphasis on Quality-of-Life as Quantity-of-Life (this also costs money)…. The same can NOT be said of countries who have embraced socialized medicine.

What you want and what countries with socialized medicine have is similar to this analogy.
In America, many people have made the choice to buy HD TV. It’s available and it is FAR SUPERIOR to the old TV’s. However, some people in America can’t afford an HD TV or maybe not a TV at all. So the government steps in and forces everyone to have ONLY an OLD TV. So now what we have is NOT the BEST AVAILABLE, TV, but it’s pretty good. Plus NOW everyone can have a TV…. Even if it’s NOT the best. That's socialized medicine in a nutshell.

Call it what ever you want, but American Health Care is Pure GREED at it's finest. Study the Swiss Plan which works very well. Our Health care system is really going to fail us when all the baby boomers start falling apart.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe our founding fathers along with GOD would be for AFFORDABLE Health Care. What we need are less expensive premiums, less expensive drugs, less expensive medical devices and less epensive hospital and clinic costs.

Healthcare has turned into the Greediest Business in our country and THAT is why we have Got to get a handle on it!

I wish the government nor employers would have to pay for healthcare. It should be affordable enough for people to pay for insurance out of their own pockets.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe our founding fathers along with GOD would be for AFFORDABLE Health Care. What we need are less expensive premiums, less expensive drugs, less expensive medical devices and less epensive hospital and clinic costs.

Healthcare has turned into the Greediest Business in our country and THAT is why we have Got to get a handle on it!

I wish the government nor employers would have to pay for healthcare. It should be affordable enough for people to pay for insurance out of their own pockets.

You are an absolute MORON to suggest that our Founding Fathers would be for ObamaCare. The GREEDIEST BUSINESS in our country is our own FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. In a lifetime you will NEVER pay MORE for anything than the cost of GOVERNMENT.... specifically a government which wishes to conduct itself in a completley illegitimate fashion.

 

[Anonymous]

You are an absolute MORON to suggest that our Founding Fathers would be for ObamaCare. The GREEDIEST BUSINESS in our country is our own FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. In a lifetime you will NEVER pay MORE for anything than the cost of GOVERNMENT.... specifically a government which wishes to conduct itself in a completley illegitimate fashion.

OK but what is the alternative to “paying for government”. The private sector has already proven untrustworthy, greedy, inefficient and greedy in its own right. The Enron/California deregulation comes to mind…so does the mortgage crisis. Ask how good the free market it for trash collection in communities that have privatized. Capitalism would not flourish in an ungoverned or anarchist nation. So I ask what is your alternative to paying for government? In regards to the HC reform issue it was actually more insurance reform than health care reform and insurance companies are amongst the greediest business entities in the country.

 

[Anonymous]

OK but what is the alternative to “paying for government”. The private sector has already proven untrustworthy, greedy, inefficient and greedy in its own right. The Enron/California deregulation comes to mind…so does the mortgage crisis. Ask how good the free market it for trash collection in communities that have privatized. Capitalism would not flourish in an ungoverned or anarchist nation. So I ask what is your alternative to paying for government? In regards to the HC reform issue it was actually more insurance reform than health care reform and insurance companies are amongst the greediest business entities in the country.

Here we go again..... some Moron acts like we are in favor of eliminating ALL Government. The role of government is determined, in no uncertain terms, by The Constitution. So while I am ALL-FOR paying for LEGITIMATE FUNCTIONS of Government, I whole-heartedly OPPOSE government that steps OUTSIDE of its bounds. CLEARLY Healthcare Reform and the individual mandate is an ILLEGITIMATE use of government.
Nothing is MORE INEFFICIENT than government.... profit-motive is what keeps business EFFICIENT. During this economic down-turn, businesses have either become more lean and efficient or have gone out of business. Government on the other hand GROWS and becomes even MORE INEFFICIENT. Government grows independent of the economy. It has no motive to become efficient. Government should follow the lead of the private market and become lean and efficient. Government has created a $15 trillion debt and it can't find a single program to cut or reduce...... PATHETIC.

 

[Anonymous]

Here we go again..... some Moron acts like we are in favor of eliminating ALL Government. The role of government is determined, in no uncertain terms, by The Constitution. So while I am ALL-FOR paying for LEGITIMATE FUNCTIONS of Government, I whole-heartedly OPPOSE government that steps OUTSIDE of its bounds. CLEARLY Healthcare Reform and the individual mandate is an ILLEGITIMATE use of government.
Nothing is MORE INEFFICIENT than government.... profit-motive is what keeps business EFFICIENT. During this economic down-turn, businesses have either become more lean and efficient or have gone out of business. Government on the other hand GROWS and becomes even MORE INEFFICIENT. Government grows independent of the economy. It has no motive to become efficient. Government should follow the lead of the private market and become lean and efficient. Government has created a $15 trillion debt and it can't find a single program to cut or reduce...... PATHETIC.

Yeah because one of the largest sectors in American business, the auto industry, is a gleaming example of efficiency. How's the American steel industry doing these days? Hell we're becoming less and less competitive in Pharma! The better big Pharmas are increasingly becoming ex US. Sorry but free is nary the example of efficiency. Just look at all the inefficient things we do on a day to day basis in Pharma.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah because one of the largest sectors in American business, the auto industry, is a gleaming example of efficiency. How's the American steel industry doing these days? Hell we're becoming less and less competitive in Pharma! The better big Pharmas are increasingly becoming ex US. Sorry but free is nary the example of efficiency. Just look at all the inefficient things we do on a day to day basis in Pharma.

PLEASE give me one example where government runs more efficiently than the private sector. Your two examples are great (auto and steel industry) because they have one thing in common.... Unions. Plus the auto industry has another mark against it because GM now stands for GovernmentMotors. Unions and government will destroy efficiency..... put the two together and it's sudden death.

 

[Anonymous]

PLEASE give me one example where government runs more efficiently than the private sector. Your two examples are great (auto and steel industry) because they have one thing in common.... Unions. Plus the auto industry has another mark against it because GM now stands for GovernmentMotors. Unions and government will destroy efficiency..... put the two together and it's sudden death.

The Armed Forces

 

[Anonymous]

The Armed Forces

There is NO private sector equivalent to The Armed Forces.... MORON.
Compare schools (private vs. public)
Personal saving accounts vs. Social Security
USPS vs. FedEx or UPS
Medicare/medicaid vs. Private insurance
Public defender vs. Private lawyer

No comparison..... not even close.

 

[Anonymous]

There is NO private sector equivalent to The Armed Forces.... MORON.
Compare schools (private vs. public)
Personal saving accounts vs. Social Security
USPS vs. FedEx or UPS
Medicare/medicaid vs. Private insurance
Public defender vs. Private lawyer

No comparison..... not even close.

Plenty to compare and it is very close…

There are plenty of public university that rank higher than private universities. Go to the US News and World Report. Under your logic there should only be private colleges on the list if they are in fact always the best, which we know that is not true.

There are plenty of K-12 public schools who rank higher that K-12 private schools even in the same towns! Being a private school does not equate to being better or more efficient. If anything public schools have to do more with less to achieve their results.

UPS/FedEx vs. USPS??? This proves you have the economic IQ of an ant and must be a big Glen Beck fan. First neither UPS nor Fed Ex deliver standard first class letters so that is incomparable and that is what is killing the USPS. If the USPS dropped all first class mail they would not be in the state they are currently in but they won’t because we as US citizens like having cheap first class mail. It’s not based on inefficiency it’s based on US citizens wanting things cheap.

CMS vs. Private insurance…talk about things that can’t be compared!!! Are you seriously using this are your argument on efficiency? Umm let’s see…

Medicare/Medicade must take all comers and use tax dollars to pay for it and of course I’m sure you are not for a medicare tax increase even though the price of medical care has sky rocketed and we have the largest bolus of people entering into the medicare system. Private insurance…cherry pick the best customers, weed out or deny the sick ones and raise insurance premiums at will. Interesting that all insurance companies mimic the process and policies of CMS yet in your mind CMS is inefficient. Again they are doing more with less than any private payer and they still set the procedural standard that private insurers follow. Again I’m sure your sample dropping pea brain doesn’t know the first thing about payers.

Public defender/ Private lawyer??? Even funnier. If that is your logic than everyone that has a ‘private defense attorney’ should always go free or win the case and the “public prosecutors” should never ever win a case, but we know that is not true…right?

Your arguments are so flawed and it is clear you are a just regurgitating the republican radio personalities mantras. Maybe if you did some research you would realize that your Rush’s and Glen’s and Hannity’s of the world are just jerking your chain for ratings and the progression of their careers and money in their pockets. These are the same tools who scream about morality then get caught being immoral but don’t want to be “accountable”. They are actors never confuse them with knowledgeable and educated journalists.

 

[Anonymous]

Your healthcare system in America is on the precipice of default and bankruptcy.

The average medicare recipient paid about $75k into the medicare system over a lifetime and will take about $300k or more out in services. There's only 2 paying into the system for every receipient extracting services. Do the math yourself.

With medicaid the receipients don't pay shit into the system. It's insolvent today.

They have no choice but to make radical changes to the current system. Either only the rich will have access to medical care or we will go to a fully nationalized program with severe medical rationing.

80 years olds won't their heart bypasses or hip replacements. At some point in life you just have to accept that it's the end of the road and deal with it the best you can.

It's over, folks. We're broke. Get ready for a third world standard of living. It's coming.

 

[Anonymous]

PLEASE give me one example where government runs more efficiently than the private sector.

This is an easy one. Healthcare. Every single other industrialized country has some form of government run universal healthcare system, and every single other industrialized country has better outcomes than the US and does it much more cheaply - often at half the cost. I think that is the very definition of efficient.

And before you spout the standard line about how horrible the health care is in x country, note that in EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY there is no interest in the population to revert to a US style system. No interest at all. If you talk to people who are from Europe, or Canada that now live in the US, they universally will tell you that the US system sucks compared to where they are from.

 

[Anonymous]

This is an easy one. Healthcare. Every single other industrialized country has some form of government run universal healthcare system, and every single other industrialized country has better outcomes than the US and does it much more cheaply - often at half the cost. I think that is the very definition of efficient.

And before you spout the standard line about how horrible the health care is in x country, note that in EVERY SINGLE INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY there is no interest in the population to revert to a US style system. No interest at all. If you talk to people who are from Europe, or Canada that now live in the US, they universally will tell you that the US system sucks compared to where they are from.

It is impossible to close Pandora's box. Once you create a system of dependence, do you honestly expect those people to vote against the welfare state?

I am in no way saying our system is good. It clearly has faults. But ask someone on welfare what they think about welfare reform, and I think the answer becomes clear. Or unemployment for a year, or Social Security....etc.

The government loves having us dependent on them. It gives them power, credibility and a reason to "save us." Remember, the government loves you and only has good intentions.

The other indsutrialized countries you speak of have a welfare state mentality. They have since WWII and arguably before that. The US thinks differently. You can't compare the two.

Good story. My friend worked for a company in Holland and then comes to the US to work for the same company and his response to the US and our working conditions "You work wayyyy too hard here and it is too competitive here..." Again different cultures.