What has been the experience with programs in your territory?

[anonymous]

Now you're confusing bribing with working/skill. Make no mistake, they don't like you, they like the MONEY. Bribing a physician by making them a speaker is the epitome of laziness not to mention unethical. I hope you understand that.

I'm serious. You've just demonstrated all the skills necessary to become a manager at Novartis. The lawsuits and the CIAs will continue for the foreseeable future.

Its called partnering...not bribing. Big difference. The physician is being paid to educate others on a specific slide deck.

And if you have the RELATIONSHIPS you can PARTNER with just about any physician on a variety of things. Conducting educational speaking programs is just one of them.

You obviously have bad access because you aren't a good rep. You can't access or partner with your physicians because they probably don't like you. And that leads to your low sales ranking.

No one is suggesting conducting programs that will cause a corporate integrity agreement and fine from the government. Conduct your programs ethically and by the rules and you will be fine. And as a side effect your market share will ultimately grow. Your access will also likely get better unless you just absolutely suck. Which judging by your comments you do.

 

[anonymous]

Its called partnering...not bribing. Big difference. The physician is being paid to educate others on a specific slide deck.

And if you have the RELATIONSHIPS you can PARTNER with just about any physician on a variety of things. Conducting educational speaking programs is just one of them.

You obviously have bad access because you aren't a good rep. You can't access or partner with your physicians because they probably don't like you. And that leads to your low sales ranking.

No one is suggesting conducting programs that will cause a corporate integrity agreement and fine from the government. Conduct your programs ethically and by the rules and you will be fine. And as a side effect your market share will ultimately grow. Your access will also likely get better unless you just absolutely suck. Which judging by your comments you do.

You call it partnering, the government calls it bribing. So when is too much "partnering?" When a speaker speaks once a month? 3 times a month? speaks repeatedly to the same crowd? Speaks at Hooters? Prescribing increases once the "partnering" begins? So is the increased market share "side effect" because they were paid? Conduct program by the rules - Novartis rules? Government rules? Is manager checking to see if you follow rules? If not, shouldn't corporate Novartis be responsible and accept government fines? Give us specific answers to the above questions.

 

[anonymous]

Its called partnering...not bribing. Big difference. The physician is being paid to educate others on a specific slide deck.

And if you have the RELATIONSHIPS you can PARTNER with just about any physician on a variety of things. Conducting speaking programs is just one of them.

You obviously have bad access because you aren't a good rep. You can't access or partner with your physicians because they probably don't like you. And that leads to your low sales ranking.

No one is suggesting conducting programs that will cause a corporate integrity agreement and fine from the government. Conduct your programs ethically and by the rules and you will be fine. And as a side effect your market share will ultimately grow. Your access will also likely get better unless you just absolutely suck. Which judging by your comments you do.

Just how many times do DOCTORS need "ejumacated" on the same dull detail aid cleaved topic from their lesser educated peers?

 

[anonymous]

If not, shouldn't corporate Novartis be responsible and accept government fines?

There is no reasonable justification why corporate Novartis should neither be responsible nor accept government fines.

 

[anonymous]

There is no reasonable justification why corporate Novartis should neither be responsible nor accept government fines.

I'm not an expert but I will provide justification.

Novartis and other companies agree to the pharma guidelines. Novartis is able to sell product through the Federal government programs. By selling products to the Federal government they are held to an agreed upon standard.

Novartis signed a CIA. They voluntarily signed this stating they would not violate the agreement. If they do violate it they will be responsible for fines and or sanctions.

Novartis could not pay the fines but could be removed from selling medicines to the Federal Governnment

 

[anonymous]

I'm not an expert but I will provide justification.

Novartis and other companies agree to the pharma guidelines. Novartis is able to sell product through the Federal government programs. By selling products to the Federal government they are held to an agreed upon standard.

Novartis signed a CIA. They voluntarily signed this stating they would not violate the agreement. If they do violate it they will be responsible for fines and or sanctions.

Novartis could not pay the fines but could be removed from selling medicines to the Federal Governnment

You don't have to abide by "pharma guidelines" to sell to Medicare. In fact a lot of smaller companies don't follow "pharma guidelines" and the companies that do all have different interpretations of what those guidelines are. The last small biotech company I worked for we could spend up to $250 per person at a dinner. I know of another company that just uses slides on a video presentation and the rep calls the "speaker" after the program only if the guests have any questions.

If they decided not to pay fines the federal government could give the "death penalty" which would be to not allow them to sell to Medicare. Although that has never been done. And a company the size of Novartis I can't see it ever being done too. They just pay the fines which is a small price to pay for breaking silly rules.

How many times do your Dr.'s need to see you as sales rep with the same detail piece and same message? How many reps do they need to see? Same as speaker programs.

Your job as a rep is to increase sales- if I were you I would do it utilizing the best tools available while you still have them instead of bitching on cafe pharma. Or don't and I'll continue to hang out at the top of the rankings. Its a small needle to move being the best or last- you need to figure out how to move the needle. The fact is most reps don't know how to sell and can't move the needle. Which is why those shitty reps hang out at big pharma companies like Novartis which is slow to get rid of people. Its all a game- play it how you want. But this game isn't going to last forever so make your money now!

 

[anonymous]

There is no reasonable justification why corporate Novartis should neither be responsible nor accept government fines.

If you defraud Medicare or Medicaid by promoting off label you get a CIA and fines. All companies know this and happily pay the fines just like they happily take the profits. CIA's have very little to do with speaker programs unless you have some crazy off the reservation speaker talking off label and the company knows it and does nothing about it.

Most companies get CIA's based upon marketing strategies, payor strategies (ie. rebates) or detail pieces (goes back to marketing strategies). Rarely based upon a rep's actions and never because a rep used a speaker X amount of times.

 

[anonymous]

Its called partnering...not bribing. Big difference. The physician is being paid to educate others on a specific slide deck.

And if you have the RELATIONSHIPS you can PARTNER with just about any physician on a variety of things. Conducting educational speaking programs is just one of them.

You obviously have bad access because you aren't a good rep. You can't access or partner with your physicians because they probably don't like you. And that leads to your low sales ranking.

No one is suggesting conducting programs that will cause a corporate integrity agreement and fine from the government. Conduct your programs ethically and by the rules and you will be fine. And as a side effect your market share will ultimately grow. Your access will also likely get better unless you just absolutely suck. Which judging by your comments you do.

I'd love to know all the things you "partner" with your docs on. Please tell us, superstar.

 

[anonymous]

South Korea, Japan, China, Turkey, United States (to name a few) haven't seen these programs as 'educational' hence the nearly billion in fines to Novartis. That said if these programs are so 'noble' start videotaping them so that these paramounts of medical knowledge can share their expertise in treating various disease states .

I mean with the millions of programs & billions of $$$$$$ paid by pharma to tens of thousands of "experts" there shouldn't be one non compliant patient or patient who's disease state isn't under control

I for one look forward to the video taped events on youtube in fact REPS start taping these via your iPhone, laptops, GoPro's etc & please share with the world the miracles that paid pharma speakers impart to ....Uh.....Uh......Uh....

Good Point what's the policy of taping events? What's to stop a rep from having a friend tape the event? No better documentation to have on hand to expose the true nature of these programs. If they are so benign novartis should pay for a videographer.

 

[anonymous]

Good Point what's the policy of taping events? What's to stop a rep from having a friend tape the event? No better documentation to have on hand to expose the true nature of these programs. If they are so benign novartis should pay for a videographer.

That would be on the rep for not following the Novartis compliance rules. Years ago 20/20 did a special on pharma industry....the result was the "pharma guidelines" that the big dogs put together.

 

[anonymous]

Wonder what the govt would say if they found out reps were lying about attendance, saying docs were there when they actually weren't. 1 rep I heard about put down that a complete no-see doc was in attendance. Wonder what the repurcussions will be whenthat doc sees $125 on the sunshine act attributed to him.

 

[anonymous]

That would be on the rep for not following the Novartis compliance rules. Years ago 20/20 did a special on pharma industry....the result was the "pharma guidelines" that the big dogs put together.

You realize novartis compliance/pharma guidelines = 2 things, Jack & Shit.
You think because you get the 3 same non english speaking or geriatrics or musical chair docs from the same offices over & over just to pay a high volume prescriber, that somehow passes mustard with Medicare Medicaid & Tricare?
Instead of bitching about it on cafepharma
reps should email their manager & say look these programs are a waste
it's the same attendees over & over
(outside of & in addition to the fact that barely any educational discussions take place
not to mention the myraid of other ethical & compliance deficiencies )
& tell their FLM to bubble it up to the MD. Now you have a paper trail
So when some douch tells you it's on the rep, Wrong it was relayed to managment & ignored as it always is OR
you get reprimanded & retaliated against for 'not doing your job' for telling the truth (which is another paper trail)
& yeah videotaping these charades would be priceless & if novartis is so confident these programs have merit they should applaud the suggestion.

 

[anonymous]

Make sure you keep any documents indicating a goal of a minimum number of programs. Any documents that reward the most programs or threaten not meeting program goals. Make notes from meetings of who said what and when. You're right, nvs will try to say reps knew the rules and chose to ignore them. If you can show everyone does it, then the company is at fault. The government considers programs done with no value except an honorarium for the speaker to be a violation of the anti-kickback laws. A bribe.

 

[anonymous]

You realize novartis compliance/pharma guidelines = 2 things, Jack & Shit.
You think because you get the 3 same non english speaking or geriatrics or musical chair docs from the same offices over & over just to pay a high volume prescriber, that somehow passes mustard with Medicare Medicaid & Tricare?
Instead of bitching about it on cafepharma
reps should email their manager & say look these programs are a waste
it's the same attendees over & over
(outside of & in addition to the fact that barely any educational discussions take place
not to mention the myraid of other ethical & compliance deficiencies )
& tell their FLM to bubble it up to the MD. Now you have a paper trail
So when some douch tells you it's on the rep, Wrong it was relayed to managment & ignored as it always is OR
you get reprimanded & retaliated against for 'not doing your job' for telling the truth (which is another paper trail)
& yeah videotaping these charades would be priceless & if novartis is so confident these programs have merit they should applaud the suggestion.

I agree that getting the same 3 physicians to attend every dinner you do is wrong. But a rep that can only get the same attendees over and over- isn't doing his or her job. Its not that hard to get attendees- different attendees- to programs if you are any good. Try developing some real relationships with your customers as that is really the basis of a sales job. Develop relationships and turn those relationships into partnerships where we help more patients!

Its not that hard of a job and we are paid extremely well for it. But instead people will bitch and moan on cafepharma.

 

[anonymous]

In the words of bugs bunny, "What a maroon." I have been in the industry since before there were dinner speaker programs. When they started, doctors could bring their wives. Attendance was pretty good. Then we had to have a separate activity for spouses when the lecture began and still attendance was pretty good. Then spouses could not come unless they were a health care provider. Now attendance was only if it was a new and unique product. So we started to pay doctors for their time to attend and attendance rose. That stopped and attendance dropped like a rock unless it was a new and unique product. Actually, attendance was getting difficult even when we paid them to attend.
My doctors have invited me to parties and weddings. I played golf with them. That was allowed at one time. I was called in the middle of the night to make an emergency delivery of phentolamine to a hospital. I was called on a Saturday afternoon from the ER by a cardiologist asking advice about administering IV Lopressor to an acute MI patient. But if I asked a busy HVP to come to my 20th Diovan program, the answer was sure, I would like nothing better than spend an evening with you to hear something I already know about from the same speaker who says the same things about your competitor when they speak for them. I know my spouse will welcome me gone another evening as well since I only see patients 60 hours a week and spend another 15 hours on call backs and paperwork. Yeah put me down. I can hardly wait. But I am sure you have such fantastic relationships and your doctors have such respect for you, they are probably asking, "Hey, when is your next dinner program, I would love to come."

 

[anonymous]

I agree that getting the same 3 physicians to attend every dinner you do is wrong. But a rep that can only get the same attendees over and over- isn't doing his or her job. Its not that hard to get attendees- different attendees- to programs if you are any good. Try developing some real relationships with your customers as that is really the basis of a sales job. Develop relationships and turn those relationships into partnerships where we help more patients!

Its not that hard of a job and we are paid extremely well for it. But instead people will bitch and moan on cafepharma.

Lol you corp apologist drones think you're so clever & can spin shit to champagne.

Look sparky the attendees are recorded so EVERYONE up the food chain including upper UPPER management (including compliance) far beyong your plebian self, know EXACTLY who is attending & they
know it's the same cast of characters time & time again (the ones listed that actually showed up ).
That's on MANAGEMENT for allowing it to continue.

Cherry Diovan has been out for TWO YEARS now! What the hell don't Docs know already
about Untrusto & any of the other crap NVS is peddling?

Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 is in theatres this weekend
You could have read spoilers 2 weeks ago & already can stream cam versions for a week
This is the INFORMATION AGE. Imagine that! You can read all about Dumtrusto & co.
on this new al gore invention called the INTERNET

You think something like a pathetic diovan combo with a component never studied stand alone
never compared to comparable therapies Merits discusssions from a marketing slide deck 2 FRIGGIN years after launch? You have the audacity to put that lack of interest on reps? Oh yeah it's relationships? LMFAO !!!!!

Here's a clue launch a drug that is novel, merits discussion & has reputable trials & "train" the doctors
within 6-12 months & then game over for these charades.

You're the reason Novartis is in constant shit storm with goverments all over the globe. You are a relic, a dinosaur. The 90's are over Hillary

 

[anonymous]

In the words of bugs bunny, "What a maroon." I have been in the industry since before there were dinner speaker programs. When they started, doctors could bring their wives. Attendance was pretty good. Then we had to have a separate activity for spouses when the lecture began and still attendance was pretty good. Then spouses could not come unless they were a health care provider. Now attendance was only if it was a new and unique product. So we started to pay doctors for their time to attend and attendance rose. That stopped and attendance dropped like a rock unless it was a new and unique product. Actually, attendance was getting difficult even when we paid them to attend.
My doctors have invited me to parties and weddings. I played golf with them. That was allowed at one time. I was called in the middle of the night to make an emergency delivery of phentolamine to a hospital. I was called on a Saturday afternoon from the ER by a cardiologist asking advice about administering IV Lopressor to an acute MI patient. But if I asked a busy HVP to come to my 20th Diovan program, the answer was sure, I would like nothing better than spend an evening with you to hear something I already know about from the same speaker who says the same things about your competitor when they speak for them. I know my spouse will welcome me gone another evening as well since I only see patients 60 hours a week and spend another 15 hours on call backs and paperwork. Yeah put me down. I can hardly wait. But I am sure you have such fantastic relationships and your doctors have such respect for you, they are probably asking, "Hey, when is your next dinner program, I would love to come."

I still play golf with my Dr.'s- in fact played this morning. I am as much in the "in" crowd as a rep can be. My Dr.'s come out and not the same ones. I admit they don't come for the talk but that is the game. Continue to complain and I'll continue to shine at the top...like I am year after year.

Again if you want better attendence get better relationships and you do that by partnering with them. Get real close and you can start to hang out in social situations. It really isn't that hard of an equation....

 

[anonymous]

Lol you corp apologist drones think you're so clever & can spin shit to champagne.

Look sparky the attendees are recorded so EVERYONE up the food chain including upper UPPER management (including compliance) far beyong your plebian self, know EXACTLY who is attending & they
know it's the same cast of characters time & time again (the ones listed that actually showed up ).
That's on MANAGEMENT for allowing it to continue.

Cherry Diovan has been out for TWO YEARS now! What the hell don't Docs know already
about Untrusto & any of the other crap NVS is peddling?

Guardians of the Galaxy vol 2 is in theatres this weekend
You could have read spoilers 2 weeks ago & already can stream cam versions for a week
This is the INFORMATION AGE. Imagine that! You can read all about Dumtrusto & co.
on this new al gore invention called the INTERNET

You think something like a pathetic diovan combo with a component never studied stand alone
never compared to comparable therapies Merits discusssions from a marketing slide deck 2 FRIGGIN years after launch? You have the audacity to put that lack of interest on reps? Oh yeah it's relationships? LMFAO !!!!!

Here's a clue launch a drug that is novel, merits discussion & has reputable trials & "train" the doctors
within 6-12 months & then game over for these charades.

You're the reason Novartis is in constant shit storm with goverments all over the globe. You are a relic, a dinosaur. The 90's are over Hillary

If you have the same cast and characters showing up time and time again you need to look internally at why your other Dr.'s don't give you the time of day. You still showing that detail piece on every call? Bothering them with stupid questions and then closing them? Your selling style is probably still from the 90's...look inside yourself. This job isn't that hard!

 

[anonymous]

I still play golf with my Dr.'s- in fact played this morning. I am as much in the "in" crowd as a rep can be. My Dr.'s come out and not the same ones. I admit they don't come for the talk but that is the game. Continue to complain and I'll continue to shine at the top...like I am year after year.

Again if you want better attendence get better relationships and you do that by partnering with them. Get real close and you can start to hang out in social situations. It really isn't that hard of an equation....

 

[anonymous]

Blow sunshine up up someone else's butt snowflake. If you played golf with a doc today, I am sure you had to pay for both of you. How did you write that off on your expenses cupcake? I remember when reps were taking docs to strip clubs. There was a restaurant at the club so the receipt looked legit. A brand manager, a manager and some reps bought the farm on that. That happened in NYC, but similar events went down in Chicago and Newton Iowa. No doctor has time now to play golf when patients can be seen. Too many of them are employees and can't get away. They also have contracts with provisions prohibiting such activity. As for being on top, I will match my PC awards against yours any day Nancy.