Three day field rides

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anonymous said:
It’s hard to imagine why these “field rides” ever existed. I get that reps need managers cracking the whip, but that can be done from sales metrics alone and in office training.
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I agree. And nowadays Doctors clearly understand that the DSM is there to maximize scripts - either by making sure the rep is squeezing the prescriber as hard as possible (under the guise of "coaching") or for the DSM to squeeze the doctor themselves. That's what it is, plain and simple. ..Now if you were a doctor, would you be ok with that?? What if you were a patient? Would you want reps to be coached where you go to get your healthcare?? Of course not.

Again, Pharma management need to find another place and way to ensure their reps are effective. Yes, they have that right. ..But keep DSM's and coaching activities out of the offices.
 




anonymous said:
I agree. And nowadays Doctors clearly understand that the DSM is there to maximize scripts - either by making sure the rep is squeezing the prescriber as hard as possible (under the guise of "coaching") or for the DSM to squeeze the doctor themselves. That's what it is, plain and simple. ..Now if you were a doctor, would you be ok with that?? What if you were a patient? Would you want reps to be coached where you go to get your healthcare?? Of course not.

Again, Pharma management need to find another place and way to ensure their reps are effective. Yes, they have that right. ..But keep DSM's and coaching activities out of the offices.
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Everyone in this company must demonstrate job competencies in a live setting. Sales are through field rides. It's no different than Finance, BD, or V&A having to run models, PTRS, LRP, etc. and presenting the final numbers. Only the idiotic and immature sales teams bitch about having to directly work with their boss 20-24 days out of the year.
 




anonymous said:
Everyone in this company must demonstrate job competencies in a live setting. Sales are through field rides. It's no different than Finance, BD, or V&A having to run models, PTRS, LRP, etc. and presenting the final numbers. Only the idiotic and immature sales teams bitch about having to directly work with their boss 20-24 days out of the year.
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Okay Brian T in Arizona, you are terrible to work for.
 




anonymous said:
Everyone in this company must demonstrate job competencies in a live setting. Sales are through field rides. It's no different than Finance, BD, or V&A having to run models, PTRS, LRP, etc. and presenting the final numbers. Only the idiotic and immature sales teams bitch about having to directly work with their boss 20-24 days out of the year.
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You're making their point. Finance gets away with running models, which are simulations. But Sales is expected to actually do it in front of a real Doctor IN THE DOCTOR's office! Which is, you know, where people go to get their healthcare!?

The problem isn't being expected to spend 20-24 days per year with a boss; the problem is doing it in front of 50-100 (over the course of a year) who are deeply annoyed you've chosen their office as a training venue. Hence, the increasing scarcity of office that let reps in.
 




anonymous said:
You're making their point. Finance gets away with running models, which are simulations. But Sales is expected to actually do it in front of a real Doctor IN THE DOCTOR's office! Which is, you know, where people go to get their healthcare!?

The problem isn't being expected to spend 20-24 days per year with a boss; the problem is doing it in front of 50-100 (over the course of a year) who are deeply annoyed you've chosen their office as a training venue. Hence, the increasing scarcity of office that let reps in.
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So? That's your job. You knew the responsibilities before you were hired. Just like a doctor knows that reps occasionally bring managers and, they do not have to allow you into their office. No one is forcing them to do it. Again, stop whining because you have to perform the job, that you purport to do 5-days-a-week, in front of your boss for less than 10% of the working year. If you don't like it, go find a job where you actually make tangible sales.

By the way, those simulations, probability of success, coverage/pricing strategies, and access wins are how you idiots are employed. None of you get contracts signed, and the street isn't asking for the projections of the territory sales from Goleta.
 




anonymous said:
So? That's your job. You knew the responsibilities before you were hired. Just like a doctor knows that reps occasionally bring managers and, they do not have to allow you into their office. No one is forcing them to do it. Again, stop whining because you have to perform the job, that you purport to do 5-days-a-week, in front of your boss for less than 10% of the working year. If you don't like it, go find a job where you actually make tangible sales.

By the way, those simulations, probability of success, coverage/pricing strategies, and access wins are how you idiots are employed. None of you get contracts signed, and the street isn't asking for the projections of the territory sales from Goleta.
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I have no idea why an MD would ever spend time talking to a rep. But if they brought their manager with, that would certainly cause me to tell the front desk not to let them past the lobby again.
 




anonymous said:
So? That's your job. You knew the responsibilities before you were hired. Just like a doctor knows that reps occasionally bring managers and, they do not have to allow you into their office. No one is forcing them to do it. Again, stop whining because you have to perform the job, that you purport to do 5-days-a-week, in front of your boss for less than 10% of the working year. If you don't like it, go find a job where you actually make tangible sales.

By the way, those simulations, probability of success, coverage/pricing strategies, and access wins are how you idiots are employed. None of you get contracts signed, and the street isn't asking for the projections of the territory sales from Goleta.
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Go find a job where you actually “manage” instead of trying to act like a high paid micromanaging babysitter
 








anonymous said:
By the way, those simulations, probability of success, coverage/pricing strategies, and access wins are how you idiots are employed. None of you get contracts signed, and the street isn't asking for the projections of the territory sales from Goleta.
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..Without Reps to manage there are no DSM's... And without DSM's and Reps, the need for commercial operations is greatly reduced. ..So your job is just as dependent on reps as vice versa. If WE go away, YOU go away. Why is hard to understand that by continuing to send managers into offices with reps, Pharma is hastening the ultimate the ultimate demise of the Sales Rep, and by extension - YOU!!!

No one is suggesting that reps not be managed and held accountable, just do it away from where people go to get their healthcare! I get it, seeing a rep do their thing in an actual Doctor's office is what's best for YOU, but it's not what's best for our Customers (HCP's) and their patients!
 




anonymous said:
So? That's your job. You knew the responsibilities before you were hired. Just like a doctor knows that reps occasionally bring managers and, they do not have to allow you into their office. No one is forcing them to do it.
Click to expand...

I've been doing this for >15yrs; it was different when I accepted my first rep job. Doctors were much more receptive to rep visits back before the ascension of health networks. These networks have GREATLY increased the pace and throughput in offices which leaves doctors far less time for rep interactions. Doctors' patience is frayed nearly every hour of every day they are practicing.

As reps we can STILL bring value (particularly when promoting new meds) but we need to approach them more cautiously. Having a second body standing alongside the rep when they ask for a moment with a doctor is NOT well rec'd these days - either we stop doing it, or we hasten our demise. If you can't understand this then you are a bit hardheaded.
 




anonymous said:
..Without Reps to manage there are no DSM's... And without DSM's and Reps, the need for commercial operations is greatly reduced. ..So your job is just as dependent on reps as vice versa. If WE go away, YOU go away. Why is hard to understand that by continuing to send managers into offices with reps, Pharma is hastening the ultimate the ultimate demise of the Sales Rep, and by extension - YOU!!!

No one is suggesting that reps not be managed and held accountable, just do it away from where people go to get their healthcare! I get it, seeing a rep do their thing in an actual Doctor's office is what's best for YOU, but it's not what's best for our Customers (HCP's) and their patients!
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You are correct, much of what the sales organization does is now obsolete. It’s all about R&D and payer access now, with some marketing thrown in. Best way to sell a good drug is to invent something new that works well and price it so that doctors throughout the world are allowed to use it.

It will take awhile for the industry to catch-up, because as you mention a lot of senior management’s power, influence, and existence is dependent on “having a lot of headcount” to “manage.” They will fight to keep it by pretending that it contributes to the bottom line.

All of that said, sending in these low level middle managers to watch reps in a clinic is crazy and is not gonna last.
 




anonymous said:
I've been doing this for >15yrs; it was different when I accepted my first rep job. Doctors were much more receptive to rep visits back before the ascension of health networks. These networks have GREATLY increased the pace and throughput in offices which leaves doctors far less time for rep interactions. Doctors' patience is frayed nearly every hour of every day they are practicing.

As reps we can STILL bring value (particularly when promoting new meds) but we need to approach them more cautiously. Having a second body standing alongside the rep when they ask for a moment with a doctor is NOT well rec'd these days - either we stop doing it, or we hasten our demise. If you can't understand this then you are a bit hardheaded.
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Think of being doctor these days as like being an airline pilot. Well paid, but tight schedules and tons and tons of confused travelers and logistical crap to deal with. Each interaction delays you going home and saps you of a little energy.

Why would you want to talk to ANYONE you don’t absolutely have to? And then they have some creepy manager “shadowing” them. Get the hell out of here!
 




anonymous said:
And then they have some creepy manager “shadowing” them. Get the hell out of here!
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Wow, you nailed my manager. He looks like the "closer" from a mega car dealership- dressed in an expensive but ill-fitting suit and waiting eagerly for his chance to to loom over the customer and say, "what's it gonna take to put you in that car today!"

Yeah, doctors love it when reps bring their managers. Meanwhile Pharma management continues to mandate the practice, essentially whistling as they pass the graveyard.
 




anonymous said:
..Without Reps to manage there are no DSM's... And without DSM's and Reps, the need for commercial operations is greatly reduced. ..So your job is just as dependent on reps as vice versa. If WE go away, YOU go away. Why is hard to understand that by continuing to send managers into offices with reps, Pharma is hastening the ultimate the ultimate demise of the Sales Rep, and by extension - YOU!!!

No one is suggesting that reps not be managed and held accountable, just do it away from where people go to get their healthcare! I get it, seeing a rep do their thing in an actual Doctor's office is what's best for YOU, but it's not what's best for our Customers (HCP's) and their patients!
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If reps go away, we'll still have products and the means to get the information to healthcare practitioners. We'll still have to acquire assets and invest in R&D. Your ridiculous pontification about "If WE go away, YOU go away," demonstrates that you know little about how this industry works. Market access negotiates, medical teaches the science, and reps complain about field rides and order lunches. There are myriad reasons as to why the reps are the last hired and the first to be laid off.
 




anonymous said:
If reps go away, we'll still have products and the means to get the information to healthcare practitioners. We'll still have to acquire assets and invest in R&D. Your ridiculous pontification about "If WE go away, YOU go away," demonstrates that you know little about how this industry works. Market access negotiates, medical teaches the science, and reps complain about field rides and order lunches. There are myriad reasons as to why the reps are the last hired and the first to be laid off.
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I understand the business model, though I’m not sure you do. You can’t possibly believe that a Pharma organization could sever its its sales reps and it not have a ripple effect on headcount upstream.

And since you are weighing in on a discussion about field rides I am guessing you anre either a DSM or an Area Director, both of which would certainly would be scaled with the size of the salesforce. So again, you are deluding yourself if you think the disappearance of sales reps could not jeopardize your job.

And yes, I of course understand Pharma companies will still exist, including R&D and market access, and other marketing related activities, etc. nobody said they would not.
 




anonymous said:
I understand the business model, though I’m not sure you do. You can’t possibly believe that a Pharma organization could sever its its sales reps and it not have a ripple effect on headcount upstream.

And since you are weighing in on a discussion about field rides I am guessing you anre either a DSM or an Area Director, both of which would certainly would be scaled with the size of the salesforce. So again, you are deluding yourself if you think the disappearance of sales reps could not jeopardize your job.

And yes, I of course understand Pharma companies will still exist, including R&D and market access, and other marketing related activities, etc. nobody said they would not.
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Thanks for your input, rep.
 




















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