THE "ALL DAY LIE", BEGINNING A NEW TRADITION AT AZ!

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anonymous said:
Pharma is nothing more than a corporate welfare system. Get paid to do almost nothing. It's amazing!
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What is amazing is that everyone including Senior Leadership knows this job is a fraud but they won't do anything because they need us to justify their jobs. It is all a con all the way up to and including the board of directors of these companies.
 
























anonymous said:
What is amazing is that everyone including Senior Leadership knows this job is a fraud but they won't do anything because they need us to justify their jobs. It is all a con all the way up to and including the board of directors of these companies.
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Yep, I interviewed with AZ and the Regional asked me what I would do differently to gain access and I gave my answer. I guess he didn’t like my answer cuz I didn’t get the position! Yes, they know AND they know everyone is lying and has a terrible time with access! Neither reps, DMs, or CBM deserve a job! DMs and CBMs are looking for reps that will protect their jobs!
 






anonymous said:
Retired DM here.....I fired my share of "all day liars." I know the job is boring as hell but shit you are drawing a paycheck, at least go out there and try.
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Way to go old DM. 20 year rep here. Not an AZ employee. Never was. I heard about this thread from a current AZ manager. If you were carrying the bag in the last 10 years, you would know that it’s a different show now. You must be really old and have been out of the game for a long time or you covered the SE of the US where reps still have access. Access is minimal and hard at best most everywhere else. I currently rep an orphan. I’m lucky to see 4 docs a week. This includes a round trip plane flight or two and one or two hotel overnights. It’s the ‘New Norm’ with pharma. You probably still believe a ‘hard close’ is the way to end a call, and you’re most likely the reason that reps don’t have access anymore. Just pitch to doc and close, and bring no value. I hate old deuch bag pharma primary care crappy managers that killed the business because they didn’t have the courage to tell their bosses that the big pharma sales model never worked...a bunch of old pussies the old DMs were.
 






anonymous said:
Way to go old DM. 20 year rep here. Not an AZ employee. Never was. I heard about this thread from a current AZ manager. If you were carrying the bag in the last 10 years, you would know that it’s a different show now. You must be really old and have been out of the game for a long time or you covered the SE of the US where reps still have access. Access is minimal and hard at best most everywhere else. I currently rep an orphan. I’m lucky to see 4 docs a week. This includes a round trip plane flight or two and one or two hotel overnights. It’s the ‘New Norm’ with pharma. You probably still believe a ‘hard close’ is the way to end a call, and you’re most likely the reason that reps don’t have access anymore. Just pitch to doc and close, and bring no value. I hate old deuch bag pharma primary care crappy managers that killed the business because they didn’t have the courage to tell their bosses that the big pharma sales model never worked...a bunch of old pussies the old DMs were.
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Love the generalities and assumptions made here.

And what killed access more than anything was big pharma's ability to shoot themselves in the foot by ever increasing sales forces in the late 90's and early 2000's. The idea of just deliver the core message over and over was boomed from the start. And then these IDN's started to gooble up smaller players and independents all the while many older blockbusters were going generic. Perfect storm resulting in severely reducing access or eliminating it all together. And yet, metrics are alive and well. The DM poster was right, you have to try but we all know that we will give the higher ups what they think they need.
 






anonymous said:
Way to go old DM. 20 year rep here. Not an AZ employee. Never was. I heard about this thread from a current AZ manager. If you were carrying the bag in the last 10 years, you would know that it’s a different show now. You must be really old and have been out of the game for a long time or you covered the SE of the US where reps still have access. Access is minimal and hard at best most everywhere else. I currently rep an orphan. I’m lucky to see 4 docs a week. This includes a round trip plane flight or two and one or two hotel overnights. It’s the ‘New Norm’ with pharma. You probably still believe a ‘hard close’ is the way to end a call, and you’re most likely the reason that reps don’t have access anymore. Just pitch to doc and close, and bring no value. I hate old deuch bag pharma primary care crappy managers that killed the business because they didn’t have the courage to tell their bosses that the big pharma sales model never worked...a bunch of old pussies the old DMs were.
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Even though there are a lot of generalities here and an few un-needed name calls this veteran is pretty spot on. The business has not only changed but it's not even an adult job anymore w/ all the lying that is need to make and keep matrix and your head above water. The Industry does not teach Integrity or Courage at all anymore like it might have pre 2000. The new normal is a Rep driving around, if even that, doing a lunch, which is nothing more than a cattle call anymore, and maybe stopping in 1 see-able MD before and after the lunch. The Sales Representatives of 2019 have been reduced to nothing more than a Customer Service person that schedules lunches and says "YES" to a "Coaching" DM. What's there to coach? The detail piece does the work and you cannot go off subject anymore. Page Flippers showing a picture and a diagram might be the best descriptor. These DMs do so much more harm than good the past 10 years it's shocking. Instead of working w/ the Rep as a team player they have literally become adversary opponents to their own company w/ inflated egos and trying to be respected. All of which have back fired.

He was also correct on calling out the old DM class for being cowards of not taking the reality up the ladder. However it goes further than that. The RMs should also be included in that statement as well. Had the RMs had the guts to be "REAL" w/ the reality of the changing environment then just maybe the Pharma job would still be a Respected Position in the medical offices unfortunately the current status is "Lunch Provider" or less.

The Industry is so far gone because of the PFE, MRK, NVS and AZN piling 4-8 sales forces on one MD that there is no way it will ever come back to the respect that it once had. Not to mention the unstable nature of the job anymore too.

If you are young, just out of college and need a big company on your resume I would say it's fine to do for 5 years you show stability and loyalty. If you are older and have those 10 years in, have a family and feel there is no way out then you need to change your thinking and take a serious look at your future becasue as a Career choice into the 2020's, not going to happen. These companies do nothing more that treat experienced individuals as if they are children knowingly know that everyday Reps are having to fudge calls and worked hours to keep their head out of water. They use this terrible combination to treat, fire and coach good adults out of jobs or worse fire them over what the industry has become. Either way, it's not a rewarding profession at all anymore or has not been one for over 10 years.
 






Only “coaching” from EBD = “Just Kick Ass”! Never could give any thought to what, how or where. Yet he keeps on the payroll! Amazing. The one person in my 15 years that seemed to get it was forced out by kick ass leader. Goes to show you that change isn’t what they want. Lemmings who follow mindless direction is what they want.
 






anonymous said:
Way to go old DM. 20 year rep here. Not an AZ employee. Never was. I heard about this thread from a current AZ manager. If you were carrying the bag in the last 10 years, you would know that it’s a different show now. You must be really old and have been out of the game for a long time or you covered the SE of the US where reps still have access. Access is minimal and hard at best most everywhere else. I currently rep an orphan. I’m lucky to see 4 docs a week. This includes a round trip plane flight or two and one or two hotel overnights. It’s the ‘New Norm’ with pharma. You probably still believe a ‘hard close’ is the way to end a call, and you’re most likely the reason that reps don’t have access anymore. Just pitch to doc and close, and bring no value. I hate old deuch bag pharma primary care crappy managers that killed the business because they didn’t have the courage to tell their bosses that the big pharma sales model never worked...a bunch of old pussies the old DMs were.
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"Old DM" here....So you're not even an AZ rep and you come on this board. How sad. You have 20 years of experience and you are "lucky" to see four docs a week. Man you have created some great relationships in 20 years. You must really hate your job and feel demoralized but you hang in there because of the paycheck. You know you can never duplicate your salary anywhere else so you stay miserable and attack me. By the way I don't believe in a hard close and never coached that way of selling. Sales departments in pharma companies lost out to marketing...so no matter what feedback DM's gave marketing was going to have their way. I'm sure YOU speak out to your management that the model doesn't work...yeah right. It's so sad seeing people like you that hate their job and throw hate on CafePharma blaming someone else for their fate.
 






anonymous said:
"Old DM" here....So you're not even an AZ rep and you come on this board. How sad. You have 20 years of experience and you are "lucky" to see four docs a week. Man you have created some great relationships in 20 years. You must really hate your job and feel demoralized but you hang in there because of the paycheck. You know you can never duplicate your salary anywhere else so you stay miserable and attack me. By the way I don't believe in a hard close and never coached that way of selling. Sales departments in pharma companies lost out to marketing...so no matter what feedback DM's gave marketing was going to have their way. I'm sure YOU speak out to your management that the model doesn't work...yeah right. It's so sad seeing people like you that hate their job and throw hate on CafePharma blaming someone else for their fate.
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Hot damn! It looks like the old DM really told that idiot off!!!!
 






anonymous said:
Way to go old DM. 20 year rep here. Not an AZ employee. Never was. I heard about this thread from a current AZ manager. If you were carrying the bag in the last 10 years, you would know that it’s a different show now. You must be really old and have been out of the game for a long time or you covered the SE of the US where reps still have access. Access is minimal and hard at best most everywhere else. I currently rep an orphan. I’m lucky to see 4 docs a week. This includes a round trip plane flight or two and one or two hotel overnights. It’s the ‘New Norm’ with pharma. You probably still believe a ‘hard close’ is the way to end a call, and you’re most likely the reason that reps don’t have access anymore. Just pitch to doc and close, and bring no value. I hate old deuch bag pharma primary care crappy managers that killed the business because they didn’t have the courage to tell their bosses that the big pharma sales model never worked...a bunch of old pussies the old DMs were.
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A 20 year rep and if he is lucky he sees 4 docs a week. That's a call average of 0.8. Sounds like the grade point average of the boys from Animal House. This guy has some balls talking shit about someone else with these numbers. Great relationships he has made in 20 years in the industry. LOL what a dipshit.
 






anonymous said:
A 20 year rep and if he is lucky he sees 4 docs a week. That's a call average of 0.8. Sounds like the grade point average of the boys from Animal House. This guy has some balls talking shit about someone else with these numbers. Great relationships he has made in 20 years in the industry. LOL what a dipshit.
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AZ rep here. If you think a high call average means anything you are delusional. It’s about sales, not call averages. You probably wave at a doc and say you made a call.....dipshit.
 






anonymous said:
AZ rep here. If you think a high call average means anything you are delusional. It’s about sales, not call averages. You probably wave at a doc and say you made a call.....dipshit.
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I am literally not shocked at 4 MDs a week, that's 4 lunches. If they are important MDs and actually see able regularly there is nothing wrong w/ 4 a week. The "OLD" Dm fails to realize that even for tenured reps the doors have closed significantly. Sure your friends will see you but are they the ones that can move the sales goal? In most cases not. This DM is significantly out of touch of what the Industry has become. Why is this thread labeled the "ALL DAY LIE" because that's exactly what the job has become.
 






Seeing four doctors a week is pitiful. You think you are meeting sales quotas with those numbers? Any rep with that call production needs to find another job because their job is in jeopardy.
 






anonymous said:
Seeing four doctors a week is pitiful. You think you are meeting sales quotas with those numbers? Any rep with that call production needs to find another job because their job is in jeopardy.
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You think anyone is putting only 4 calls into the Ipad, 1 a Day? Their not, the rest is Fudge. You think Reps can see 5-8 Mds a day 5X a week anymore, you can't that's a Fair Tale as well. On a work w/ we take the DM to see our friends or easy to see MDs which basically consist of 2-3 Days total for the entire territory if we need to fill a couple of days up, we drive the DM near and far to waste time, anything to waste time!! Also, Always a LUNCH! This is the reality of Pharma in 2019. Again, this is what this thread is about. THE ALL DAY LIE! You are out of touch and what this thread talks about..."DMs out of touch". Reps are doing 1 call before lunch, a lunch and that's it. Other days we go to a Group Practice or two and fill up w/ MDs sightings! Maybe a 30 second Managed Care Update to a few MDs and that's about all that is available. You want more time, you SLING StarBucks to the ladies in the office and call it "Building a Relationship"(kids sling coffee, adult men do not). No Coffee, No Entry.... However the check is good, SO....we Continue the ALL DAY LIE!!!!
 
























I recently read a statistic that access in physician offices is around 45%, which means the majority of your targets are inaccessible. It’s only going to get worse so the real question is what are companies going to do to address it. Hiring cheap inexperienced reps isn’t gonna cut it!
 






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