State of Mid-Atlantic Labs

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News about TT selling out is around, and some said Ammon got out of bankruptcy and has an OIG investigation. The other labs are also in similar issues most just want to get out of the mess as everyone knows.

not sure how true any of this is but the whole point about the industry being in a red zone still applies
 












anonymous said:
TT did indeed sell. It’s just going to be a downward spiral from here, run while you can!
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TT had no choice. NJ audit/withholding was driving them towards bankruptcy. NJ finding could not be discharged in bankruptcy because NJ has personal liens on TT owners. They sold for pennies and future considerations, most likely cashed out after audit is settled. Smart move on PB's part. Other labs will soon be liquidating or selling. Tough time to be a small lab, especially in tox!
 






anonymous said:
TT had no choice. NJ audit/withholding was driving them towards bankruptcy. NJ finding could not be discharged in bankruptcy because NJ has personal liens on TT owners. They sold for pennies and future considerations, most likely cashed out after audit is settled. Smart move on PB's part. Other labs will soon be liquidating or selling. Tough time to be a small lab, especially in tox!
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It’s a warning sign for all the struggling small labs. TT just simply took itself out of its own misery, and all labs should follow before relying on the idea all can be saved!
 






Clinical labs will exist as long as they’re ok with taking less. Reimbursements are down compared to 15 years ago. Margins are nowhere near as great. But if they can make modest margins, they can stay in operation. The problem with smaller labs is ownership greed. They want margins from 2005 and those are long gone. They have to play it smarter and exist with modest wins.

Toxicology labs are all doomed. Reimbursements are next to nil. Crooked toxicology labs played greatly into the opium/opiate addiction in this country. Today, they pay the price for their deliquency.
 












anonymous said:
Clinical labs will exist as long as they’re ok with taking less. Reimbursements are down compared to 15 years ago. Margins are nowhere near as great. But if they can make modest margins, they can stay in operation. The problem with smaller labs is ownership greed. They want margins from 2005 and those are long gone. They have to play it smarter and exist with modest wins.

Toxicology labs are all doomed. Reimbursements are next to nil. Crooked toxicology labs played greatly into the opium/opiate addiction in this country. Today, they pay the price for their deliquency.
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Many of these tox labs don’t want to make small profits as you mentioned. People have repeatedly stated that these labs will be in business, but with TrueTox’s closing many might agree this isn’t entirely accurate.
 






That’s the problem most of the labs got too vested in the money, and things started to hit the ground when crappy practices were in effect. Labs can exist, but realistically it is looking like two labs have that control and these other toxicology labs have to accept that.
 






Tox said:
That’s the problem most of the labs got too vested in the money, and things started to hit the ground when crappy practices were in effect. Labs can exist, but realistically it is looking like two labs have that control and these other toxicology labs have to accept that.
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All labs are just borrowing Quest and LabCorp client list. If these two labs wanted to put everyone else out of business they could. Not in their best interest to do this though. Anti-trust would come into play. In two years there will be regional labs only with the big 2 as national labs. Maybe 3-4 regional labs to compete with big 2. Everyone else will be out of business!
 






anonymous said:
All labs are just borrowing Quest and LabCorp client list. If these two labs wanted to put everyone else out of business they could. Not in their best interest to do this though. Anti-trust would come into play. In two years there will be regional labs only with the big 2 as national labs. Maybe 3-4 regional labs to compete with big 2. Everyone else will be out of business!
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Seems like a web of issues regardless of how you look at it. Most of those businesses between the larger two will be in issues. But wouldn’t all the labs have had a decent chance of survival had things been done the right way?
 












anonymous said:
Everyone should save themselves before things get worse. It’s futile for some labs to constantly believe they might find a way out of the maze of issues.
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There’s been a level of denial about this very statement. It only seems to apply to specific labs, but still, it’s a thing of denial and feeling like everything is going to be bright again….
 






anonymous said:
There’s been a level of denial about this very statement. It only seems to apply to specific labs, but still, it’s a thing of denial and feeling like everything is going to be bright again….
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So labs should just close? Labs are fighting to stay alive. It is not about just the owners but the people they employ. Some lab owners actually care about their employees (some not so much). Those labs are fighting for survival and will only give up when the lights are turned off for non-payment of electric bill. Yes it is bad, but saying there is denial is just not true. Every lab knows business is way down, but they are fighting. Saying they should just close is why you are not an owner and just a loser rep!
 






anonymous said:
There’s been a level of denial about this very statement. It only seems to apply to specific labs, but still, it’s a thing of denial and feeling like everything is going to be bright again….
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Well, most people want out now. Owners will eventually have to figure it out, and employees will eventually find jobs if they’re serious. TT closed down as everyone noted, and others are in the same position. There’s been a long fight and eventually the flame will burn out for most labs.
 






anonymous said:
Clinical labs will exist as long as they’re ok with taking less. Reimbursements are down compared to 15 years ago. Margins are nowhere near as great. But if they can make modest margins, they can stay in operation. The problem with smaller labs is ownership greed. They want margins from 2005 and those are long gone. They have to play it smarter and exist with modest wins.

Toxicology labs are all doomed. Reimbursements are next to nil. Crooked toxicology labs played greatly into the opium/opiate addiction in this country. Today, they pay the price for their deliquency.
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The tox industry has surely taken hit. Not even sure why people would neglect this and act like all has been well, it’s been years of the spiraling.
 






Gone with the wind said:
The tox industry has surely taken hit. Not even sure why people would neglect this and act like all has been well, it’s been years of the spiraling.
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They know Tox is dead. It’s going to cost the lab just as much to run the specimen and pay reps one day. I think it’s low $30s per drug panel.

Their days are numbered. I don’t know how national tox labs are still in existence.
 






anonymous said:
Seems like a web of issues regardless of how you look at it. Most of those businesses between the larger two will be in issues. But wouldn’t all the labs have had a decent chance of survival had things been done the right way?
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If you’re selling in a large city like NYC, you will find out Q/LC are universally despised. Smaller labs can exist there without an issue. But the days of raking in the dough are gone. They’re going to have to exist on volume. Huge challenge up ahead.
 






anonymous said:
If you’re selling in a large city like NYC, you will find out Q/LC are universally despised. Smaller labs can exist there without an issue. But the days of raking in the dough are gone. They’re going to have to exist on volume. Huge challenge up ahead.
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Are these labs up for the challenge? Doesn’t seem like an easy task.
 






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