Open Letter To Forest Labs Leadership

Anonymous

Guest
Dear Forest Labs,

I've felt this way for a long time, but I've tried to keep my peace with you. Working under the illusion that if I were to keep working like a good boy I could help change the culture at Forest from within. I always knew I didn't fit in among you... Any one with eyes can tell we're nothing alike. But I like so much what the organization and occupation could be, that I continued hoping against all evidence that there was a niche for me.

Now that the manager I work for has sent me messages telling me (in polite terms) to fuck off and that he and Forest Labs will be making my day to day efforts a nightmare from here on out until my eventual demise. Telling me that the fact that the Dr's, nurses, and receptionists love me is a mark of dishonor in his eyes. Telling me that the fact that I've given my heart and soul to educating the Dr's who prescribe my drugs and helping the patients who take them for years doesn't mean shit to him. Telling me that I could never sell to the expectations that he had for his reps, even though he's mentioned it several times in the past how happy he was with my efforts and results.

Well, maybe now that I have nothing left to lose, it's time to tell you exactly what I think.

I used to say that I had a love/hate relationship with Forest Labs... But being with your company for too long has turned it into a hate/hate relationship. Your crime is unforgivable.

Pharmaceutical sales at Forest would and could a place where one can grow both professionally and personally. A job that where one can acquire the tools to turn problems into solutions. It could be a place where much can be accomplished with the proper approach and mentality. Where the focus isn't on what I have to say as the rep, but what the doctor and patient needs help with. To quote the late, great ZigZiglar: "You can get all you want in life, if you help enough other people get what they want."

Forest Labs would and could be place where people could perform and feel fulfilled if it weren't for the fact that it is run by people like you. Egomaniacs who spend their Saturday nights staring at their job titles on their business cards, bragging to people about how much they're paid and devising new ways to squeeze all joy out of selling.

Every glowing report I receive from people in my territory is another strike against me in the eyes of the bureaucrats controlling the people factory that is now Forest Labs. The assumption is that if the people you're working with don't find you dry, humorless, and needlessly take yourself seriously, you're obviously not doing your job and won't be considered a "proper forest rep."

What you seem to forget is that fun is not the antithesis of serious, it's only the antithesis of boring. No surprises there though...

Your endless voicemails, emails and what you consider "coaching" are a reflection of who you are. Sorry ex-jocks who thought you were important playing sports at your D3 college that no one's heard of, your cold heart, shiny shoes and gelled up hair speak volumes to your Dr's and nurses before you even open your mouths. Being at Panera Bread at 6:30 swilling coffee and staring at your laptops doesn't garner respect either. Good selling is meant to inform as well as inspire. But in your hands, pharma sales ends up being a punishment for all involved. Your organization has turned obsolete, destroying and repressing sales people's natural talents rather than motivating them.

I could go on... But the words of a fine American Poet seemed most suited to deliver my parting message. In the poetically subtle words of 2pac Shakur: Fuck you, and your mother fuckin' momma.
 






Thank you for that post! So many good things you nailed! This job just sucks the life out of you and makes existence seem worthless. It's a dead end job with more and more misery ahead. If your good at just playing the game I'm not sure how that can make you feel like your accomplishing anything g with your life. Everything is so fake and pretend, it's very strange.
 






Dear Forest Labs,

I've felt this way for a long time, but I've tried to keep my peace with you. Working under the illusion that if I were to keep working like a good boy I could help change the culture at Forest from within. I always knew I didn't fit in among you... Any one with eyes can tell we're nothing alike. But I like so much what the organization and occupation could be, that I continued hoping against all evidence that there was a niche for me.

Now that the manager I work for has sent me messages telling me (in polite terms) to fuck off and that he and Forest Labs will be making my day to day efforts a nightmare from here on out until my eventual demise. Telling me that the fact that the Dr's, nurses, and receptionists love me is a mark of dishonor in his eyes. Telling me that the fact that I've given my heart and soul to educating the Dr's who prescribe my drugs and helping the patients who take them for years doesn't mean shit to him. Telling me that I could never sell to the expectations that he had for his reps, even though he's mentioned it several times in the past how happy he was with my efforts and results.

Well, maybe now that I have nothing left to lose, it's time to tell you exactly what I think.

I used to say that I had a love/hate relationship with Forest Labs... But being with your company for too long has turned it into a hate/hate relationship. Your crime is unforgivable.

Pharmaceutical sales at Forest would and could a place where one can grow both professionally and personally. A job that where one can acquire the tools to turn problems into solutions. It could be a place where much can be accomplished with the proper approach and mentality. Where the focus isn't on what I have to say as the rep, but what the doctor and patient needs help with. To quote the late, great ZigZiglar: "You can get all you want in life, if you help enough other people get what they want."

Forest Labs would and could be place where people could perform and feel fulfilled if it weren't for the fact that it is run by people like you. Egomaniacs who spend their Saturday nights staring at their job titles on their business cards, bragging to people about how much they're paid and devising new ways to squeeze all joy out of selling.

Every glowing report I receive from people in my territory is another strike against me in the eyes of the bureaucrats controlling the people factory that is now Forest Labs. The assumption is that if the people you're working with don't find you dry, humorless, and needlessly take yourself seriously, you're obviously not doing your job and won't be considered a "proper forest rep."

What you seem to forget is that fun is not the antithesis of serious, it's only the antithesis of boring. No surprises there though...

Your endless voicemails, emails and what you consider "coaching" are a reflection of who you are. Sorry ex-jocks who thought you were important playing sports at your D3 college that no one's heard of, your cold heart, shiny shoes and gelled up hair speak volumes to your Dr's and nurses before you even open your mouths. Being at Panera Bread at 6:30 swilling coffee and staring at your laptops doesn't garner respect either. Good selling is meant to inform as well as inspire. But in your hands, pharma sales ends up being a punishment for all involved. Your organization has turned obsolete, destroying and repressing sales people's natural talents rather than motivating them.

I could go on... But the words of a fine American Poet seemed most suited to deliver my parting message. In the poetically subtle words of 2pac Shakur: Fuck you, and your mother fuckin' momma.

all true -the worst management I have ever seen, glad i left a horrible culture
 












Dear Forest Labs,

I've felt this way for a long time, but I've tried to keep my peace with you. Working under the illusion that if I were to keep working like a good boy I could help change the culture at Forest from within. I always knew I didn't fit in among you... Any one with eyes can tell we're nothing alike. But I like so much what the organization and occupation could be, that I continued hoping against all evidence that there was a niche for me.

Now that the manager I work for has sent me messages telling me (in polite terms) to fuck off and that he and Forest Labs will be making my day to day efforts a nightmare from here on out until my eventual demise. Telling me that the fact that the Dr's, nurses, and receptionists love me is a mark of dishonor in his eyes. Telling me that the fact that I've given my heart and soul to educating the Dr's who prescribe my drugs and helping the patients who take them for years doesn't mean shit to him. Telling me that I could never sell to the expectations that he had for his reps, even though he's mentioned it several times in the past how happy he was with my efforts and results.

Well, maybe now that I have nothing left to lose, it's time to tell you exactly what I think.

I used to say that I had a love/hate relationship with Forest Labs... But being with your company for too long has turned it into a hate/hate relationship. Your crime is unforgivable.

Pharmaceutical sales at Forest would and could a place where one can grow both professionally and personally. A job that where one can acquire the tools to turn problems into solutions. It could be a place where much can be accomplished with the proper approach and mentality. Where the focus isn't on what I have to say as the rep, but what the doctor and patient needs help with. To quote the late, great ZigZiglar: "You can get all you want in life, if you help enough other people get what they want."

Forest Labs would and could be place where people could perform and feel fulfilled if it weren't for the fact that it is run by people like you. Egomaniacs who spend their Saturday nights staring at their job titles on their business cards, bragging to people about how much they're paid and devising new ways to squeeze all joy out of selling.

Every glowing report I receive from people in my territory is another strike against me in the eyes of the bureaucrats controlling the people factory that is now Forest Labs. The assumption is that if the people you're working with don't find you dry, humorless, and needlessly take yourself seriously, you're obviously not doing your job and won't be considered a "proper forest rep."

What you seem to forget is that fun is not the antithesis of serious, it's only the antithesis of boring. No surprises there though...

Your endless voicemails, emails and what you consider "coaching" are a reflection of who you are. Sorry ex-jocks who thought you were important playing sports at your D3 college that no one's heard of, your cold heart, shiny shoes and gelled up hair speak volumes to your Dr's and nurses before you even open your mouths. Being at Panera Bread at 6:30 swilling coffee and staring at your laptops doesn't garner respect either. Good selling is meant to inform as well as inspire. But in your hands, pharma sales ends up being a punishment for all involved. Your organization has turned obsolete, destroying and repressing sales people's natural talents rather than motivating them.

I could go on... But the words of a fine American Poet seemed most suited to deliver my parting message. In the poetically subtle words of 2pac Shakur: Fuck you, and your mother fuckin' momma.
Your numbers either suck or you're a liability for some reason. Maybe both. If you hate it here this much, please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Go and find out how much greener the grass is somewhere else (it isn't) and just how much job security you'll have at any other pharma company (absolutely none).
 






Your numbers either suck or you're a liability for some reason. Maybe both. If you hate it here this much, please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Go and find out how much greener the grass is somewhere else (it isn't) and just how much job security you'll have at any other pharma company (absolutely none).

You can not defend this POS company. You must be that idiot manager described. OP is 100% spot on!!!
 






You can not defend this POS company. You must be that idiot manager described. OP is 100% spot on!!!
I may be an idiot and may be a DM, but the OP certainly doesn't work for me. I've long since gotten rid of all the entitled, egotistic & under-performing whiners that held their territories back. Seriously, if you don't like it here you have our blessing to get the 'F out.
 


















I haven't been on this site for a long time - but this string struck a chord.

Like the OP, I am a long time employee. I have had multiple promotions. I have done well in the field, in management, and in other positions. My numbers are good, I have no performance issues, and as far as everyone is concerned, I am an example of a hardworking, strong performing loyal employee. So haters, this is not about my ability to perform, or adapt, or feel important. What I am about to express is a gut-wrenching recount of how I watched a very fine Sales Management team fall into some very bad practices.

I get the restrictions of today's environment: the CIA, increased compliance, a highly regulated industry, etc. But none of that explains the collapse of what used to be a very effective Senior Sales Management team.

One thing does explain it - or at least can be identified as the root cause: EH. As soon as she started to get her hands around the necks of the Sales Leaders, the role of Senior Sales Management changed.

Gone were the days when RD's gave significant input into POA and launch plans. Now, RD's go to meetings to be told the POA - not input on it. One might think the ABD's have assumed that role, and to a small degree they have. Yes, EH will drag members of her team for her annual trip to all the ABD offices. But that is little more than a dog and pony show....they know they must follow along or else. Guys like CR, BS, GM, and even VP GA are not bad people...but they are not going to jeopardize their incredible salaries and titles. They have seen what has happened to the Senior Sales and Marketing Leaders who have attempted to speak their mind (aka tell the truth) over the past 10 years. People who contradict EH are dead men walking. Those people have been systematical broken, demoted, and/or fired. Would you risk several hundred grand a year trying to fight a no-win battle with EH? I don't blame them, but I bet they hate it just as much as I do.

That's right - hate it. I'm here...I keep smiling....I tell everyone Forest is awesome. And in many ways Forest has been an awesome place to work. But I can't wait to retire....to get out of this. Just a few more years.... I can smile, take the BS, be a robot, say yes to everything, and get through the day for a couple more years if it means supporting my family. But I won't work hard anymore. I won't sacrifice my family time the way I once did. I will look for the easiest way more often and the best way less often. I will do as little as possible more often than not.

Never confuse today's Forest sales environment with what was. Sure, Forest had problems. We grew very big very fast. We promoted some managers (and Directors) way too early. We pushed the boundaries of appropriate programs. But we were out manned and out-spent by HUGE companies. Yet our sales force took incredible pride in WINNING. And we won a lot. From AeroBid, to Tiazac, to Celexa, to Lexapro, to Namenda, Forest sales constantly outperformed everyone's expectations. With the exception of Bystolic, can the same be said for any product launch over the past decade? Take that and stuff it in your pipe, EH. She wants to take credit for Lexapro's success, but EVERYONE knows John MacPhee was the man who drove that train! She wants to take credit for Namenda success, but her mindless decision to dissolve the LTC group that MS and TB worked a decade to put together was disasterous. I just wish a few large investors (hello Mr Ichan) would look a little more into the huge namenda underperformance in the past year....the answers given to the investment public were borderline truthful at best, and flat out deceptive at worst.

Some people still do care deeply - I won’t rip them because we used to have a sales force and marketing department full of people like that. But few care as much today. And even those who you think still carry the old Forest sales/marketing attitude probably do it more for show than out of a deep-felt passion for the job or company. I know this for fact - I am one of them.

So yea, let's fly across the country and role play for 4 days. Let's spend 45 minutes practicing opening benefit statements off the front cover of the MVA. Let's monitor the number of calls, the percentage sampled, and track those L&L budgets - gotta be between 98%-102%! Use it or lose it, after all. Sales falling? Let's hire some contract reps....4-5 reps in the offices must not be enough. Somewhere, somehow, the Company that prided itself on productivity vs activity lost its way. Somehow, the activity metrics have become the end game. Maybe its because there is no way of knowing which rep actually drives the numbers; the only thing everyone actually owns is their activity (or at least what they input as their activity). Even the one sales force where reps don't overlap - Hospital - is becoming more activity oriented. How many text books did you hand out? EOD programs? Coupons? It doesn't matter that most hospitals don't want coupon, or worse yet that they expire in a couple month - HAND THEM OUT ANYWAY - I don't want MY DIVISION to be last in activity, says the DM....

Wow - what an unexpected yet therapeutic rant. Someday I want to sign my name to a post like this....maybe in a couple more years. In the meanwhile, I will enjoy my remaining time on vacation before returning to my UPS/Catering job with a medical spin.

Let the haters begin their responses.....

Respectfully,

A very loyal and let down Forest Employee......
 






100% agree with the loyal employee. I could have written that. I will be sending my own version soon and I can't wait to sign it.
I'm just not sure if it will be from me directly, from my attorney, to leadership, or to every # on the list.....
 






I may be an idiot and may be a DM, but the OP certainly doesn't work for me. I've long since gotten rid of all the entitled, egotistic & under-performing whiners that held their territories back. Seriously, if you don't like it here you have our blessing to get the 'F out.

Now if you would leave, all would be good. Condescending Forest prick.
 






maybe you should have tried to adapt to the culture rather than to change it. Was that what you were asked to do when you were hired?

I thought I was hired to sell something but it appears painfully obvious that all you're interested in is someone sucking your ass because you sure don't know anything about sales or marketing.
 






I haven't been on this site for a long time - but this string struck a chord.

Like the OP, I am a long time employee. I have had multiple promotions. I have done well in the field, in management, and in other positions. My numbers are good, I have no performance issues, and as far as everyone is concerned, I am an example of a hardworking, strong performing loyal employee. So haters, this is not about my ability to perform, or adapt, or feel important. What I am about to express is a gut-wrenching recount of how I watched a very fine Sales Management team fall into some very bad practices.

I get the restrictions of today's environment: the CIA, increased compliance, a highly regulated industry, etc. But none of that explains the collapse of what used to be a very effective Senior Sales Management team.

One thing does explain it - or at least can be identified as the root cause: EH. As soon as she started to get her hands around the necks of the Sales Leaders, the role of Senior Sales Management changed.

Gone were the days when RD's gave significant input into POA and launch plans. Now, RD's go to meetings to be told the POA - not input on it. One might think the ABD's have assumed that role, and to a small degree they have. Yes, EH will drag members of her team for her annual trip to all the ABD offices. But that is little more than a dog and pony show....they know they must follow along or else. Guys like CR, BS, GM, and even VP GA are not bad people...but they are not going to jeopardize their incredible salaries and titles. They have seen what has happened to the Senior Sales and Marketing Leaders who have attempted to speak their mind (aka tell the truth) over the past 10 years. People who contradict EH are dead men walking. Those people have been systematical broken, demoted, and/or fired. Would you risk several hundred grand a year trying to fight a no-win battle with EH? I don't blame them, but I bet they hate it just as much as I do.

That's right - hate it. I'm here...I keep smiling....I tell everyone Forest is awesome. And in many ways Forest has been an awesome place to work. But I can't wait to retire....to get out of this. Just a few more years.... I can smile, take the BS, be a robot, say yes to everything, and get through the day for a couple more years if it means supporting my family. But I won't work hard anymore. I won't sacrifice my family time the way I once did. I will look for the easiest way more often and the best way less often. I will do as little as possible more often than not.

Never confuse today's Forest sales environment with what was. Sure, Forest had problems. We grew very big very fast. We promoted some managers (and Directors) way too early. We pushed the boundaries of appropriate programs. But we were out manned and out-spent by HUGE companies. Yet our sales force took incredible pride in WINNING. And we won a lot. From AeroBid, to Tiazac, to Celexa, to Lexapro, to Namenda, Forest sales constantly outperformed everyone's expectations. With the exception of Bystolic, can the same be said for any product launch over the past decade? Take that and stuff it in your pipe, EH. She wants to take credit for Lexapro's success, but EVERYONE knows John MacPhee was the man who drove that train! She wants to take credit for Namenda success, but her mindless decision to dissolve the LTC group that MS and TB worked a decade to put together was disasterous. I just wish a few large investors (hello Mr Ichan) would look a little more into the huge namenda underperformance in the past year....the answers given to the investment public were borderline truthful at best, and flat out deceptive at worst.

Some people still do care deeply - I won’t rip them because we used to have a sales force and marketing department full of people like that. But few care as much today. And even those who you think still carry the old Forest sales/marketing attitude probably do it more for show than out of a deep-felt passion for the job or company. I know this for fact - I am one of them.

So yea, let's fly across the country and role play for 4 days. Let's spend 45 minutes practicing opening benefit statements off the front cover of the MVA. Let's monitor the number of calls, the percentage sampled, and track those L&L budgets - gotta be between 98%-102%! Use it or lose it, after all. Sales falling? Let's hire some contract reps....4-5 reps in the offices must not be enough. Somewhere, somehow, the Company that prided itself on productivity vs activity lost its way. Somehow, the activity metrics have become the end game. Maybe its because there is no way of knowing which rep actually drives the numbers; the only thing everyone actually owns is their activity (or at least what they input as their activity). Even the one sales force where reps don't overlap - Hospital - is becoming more activity oriented. How many text books did you hand out? EOD programs? Coupons? It doesn't matter that most hospitals don't want coupon, or worse yet that they expire in a couple month - HAND THEM OUT ANYWAY - I don't want MY DIVISION to be last in activity, says the DM....

Wow - what an unexpected yet therapeutic rant. Someday I want to sign my name to a post like this....maybe in a couple more years. In the meanwhile, I will enjoy my remaining time on vacation before returning to my UPS/Catering job with a medical spin.

Let the haters begin their responses.....

Respectfully,

A very loyal and let down Forest Employee......

Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself. No one is calling her on the great Namenda disaster that she created in a very willful manner. It's baffling! If only the analysts on our earnings calls were a little sharper. EH claims CMS guidance on antipsychotic use is to blame for the Namenda downturn. Who is mentally challenged enough to believe that nonsense! Yet none of the analysts call her on it. It's a cautionary tale to investors who put faith in what these bozos have to say. Carl Icahn, if you really want to improve Forest profitability your first step is to remove this pariah. Your second step is to push for an independent COO. What company in their right mind runs efficiently without a COO? The current Forest model of consolidating power under incompetent egomaniacs is not working.
 






ICAhn must be all talk if he can't see that EH is the main reason this company is what it is. They also need to get rid of all the clowns running HR. Hiding all the illegal things management does and pushes reps to do is their fault. If they would hold management accountable for their misuse of power instead of covering up the facts, maybe the immoral and illegal activities would at least slow down.
 






ICAhn must be all talk if he can't see that EH is the main reason this company is what it is. They also need to get rid of all the clowns running HR. Hiding all the illegal things management does and pushes reps to do is their fault. If they would hold management accountable for their misuse of power instead of covering up the facts, maybe the immoral and illegal activities would at least slow down.

Starts with EH and moves across Marketing and Sales, they need to clean out Executive Directors and above, the Exec. Directors are bought and paid for and are loyal to EH, clean out all of the rats and replace them with sharp, smart, creative people, something really lacking at Forest.
 






I may be an idiot and may be a DM, but the OP certainly doesn't work for me. I've long since gotten rid of all the entitled, egotistic & under-performing whiners that held their territories back. Seriously, if you don't like it here you have our blessing to get the 'F out.

All Reps. Hate You!!!! But you are too stupid to believe it.
 






I may be an idiot and may be a DM, but the OP certainly doesn't work for me. I've long since gotten rid of all the entitled, egotistic & under-performing whiners that held their territories back. Seriously, if you don't like it here you have our blessing to get the 'F out.

To this poster-PLEASE print this thread out and file it with your ten million other bs corporate communications your required to save? Just hold on to it. I understand you're just "not there" yet. The heartfelt accurate posts written by all the entitled, egotistic & under-performing whiners come from a level of consciousness that you just haven't reached yet. Seriously :)

When (and hopefully for you that day will come-otherwise you'll just live a yes-man existence) you raise your level of consciousness your ego won't get in the way of understanding how real the posts you feel so superior to are.

I now make the same six figures helping foster kids find permanent homes while you be n d o v er and do paperwork. Your mom must be so proud.