karuna deal

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anonymous said:
More than 90% of these patients are seen in CMH or public aid settings. Ask any private practice psych MD or APN how many schizophrenic patients they have. Most will say none or a few here and there. I launched another schizophrenia med years ago and it was tough to get these patients because most were on LAI and/or generic. The poster above who said places like Michigan will get out of the gates fast was right. States with mandated mental health access legislation and no restriction or PA for brands will crush. Those without will struggle. If the IC plan is ranked on volume, it will favor reps in those states with open access.

Most managers will tell you anything to try and get you to jump on board. If you really want to know the truth, reach out to reps from Vanda, ITC, Abbvie, etc. and find out what life is like for them in the schizophrenia market. It’s good information to know going into the process.
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Are there any schizo pts with commercial and straight medicare?
 




anonymous said:
Are there any schizo pts with commercial and straight medicare?
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There are some but most providers in private practice don’t see/treat many patients with schizophrenia because of the level of care required and the fact only a small percentage are employed and insured. There are probably more on the part D side but they are usually in long term inpatient facilities. Most community providers treat depression, ADHD, Bipolar and MDD. Those patients are functional and often respond well to meds and therapy. Schizophrenia is a different arena.
 




anonymous said:
I launched in the space before. You are correct. Many patients have multiple failures by the time they get to a brand. My point is there are states like Tennessee and Michigan where patients can go straight to a brand with no failures. Even newly diagnosed patients naive to treatment can get the newest agents with no PA. If you are competing against reps in those states and you are in a state where patients have to fail multiple generics, you will be in the bottom of the ranking. Especially if the bonus plan is force ranked on volume.
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My thoughts exactly. Will be a tough year or two for many reps in the disadvantaged states. I have been through a few launches like this and some states send everyone to presidents clubs while others are putting everyone on a pip.
 




anonymous said:
My thoughts exactly. Will be a tough year or two for many reps in the disadvantaged states. I have been through a few launches like this and some states send everyone to presidents clubs while others are putting everyone on a pip.
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I sold Latuda in Illinois for years. Miserable Medicaid coverage. The whole team was in the bottom most of the time until we finally got public aid. Michigan was always on top no matter who was there. And it happens at every psych company launching a schizophrenia drug.

KarXT will take off fast in Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, Nevada, Missouri and Indiana. Some of the biggest open Medicaid markets in the nation. Places like Illinois, Washington, NJ and Oregon will be pulling up the rear. Book mark this post and revisit in September 2025.
 




anonymous said:
I sold Latuda in Illinois for years. Miserable Medicaid coverage. The whole team was in the bottom most of the time until we finally got public aid. Michigan was always on top no matter who was there. And it happens at every psych company launching a schizophrenia drug.

KarXT will take off fast in Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, Nevada, Missouri and Indiana. Some of the biggest open Medicaid markets in the nation. Places like Illinois, Washington, NJ and Oregon will be pulling up the rear. Book mark this post and revisit in September 2025.
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Maybe they’ll actually do the smart thing and base goals off of market access, unlike other companies in the psych space that base solely off of baseline growth expectations
 




anonymous said:
Most Celgene folks did not get large bonus. They cut the Celgene stock awards pretty quick. The bms are nothing close to Celgene awards.
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Who cares about bs Celgene? Money down the drain. No one from Celgene should be around. Blame your Celgene CEO, investors and senior leadership who pocketed all the money.
 




anonymous said:
Maybe they’ll actually do the smart thing and base goals off of market access, unlike other companies in the psych space that base solely off of baseline growth expectations
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BMS is using ZS to assess opportunity in each market and carve out the territories. Like every other company in the psych space. Does anyone know if the bonus and ranking will be goal based or force ranked on total prescription volume? 300 territories seems heavy handed in a schizophrenia launch.
 




anonymous said:
There are some but most providers in private practice don’t see/treat many patients with schizophrenia because of the level of care required and the fact only a small percentage are employed and insured. There are probably more on the part D side but they are usually in long term inpatient facilities. Most community providers treat depression, ADHD, Bipolar and MDD. Those patients are functional and often respond well to meds and therapy. Schizophrenia is a different arena.
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There is an aggressive speaker bureau plan. Territories with big national speakers like Jain and Mattingly will have a leg up. I'm optimistic based on the interview experience so far.
 








anonymous said:
Maybe they’ll actually do the smart thing and base goals off of market access, unlike other companies in the psych space that base solely off of baseline growth expectations
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BMS has seeing showing over the past 2-3 years that they NEVER do the smart thing. They will do the opposite of the smart thing. Brace yourselves now for shitty comp plan.
 




This recruiting process is tricky. Managers on their best behavior putting their best positivity spins on everything. It’s difficulty to get a feel for it all. Will this product and division really be different? I’m sure this post will attract naysayers who had bad experiences in other BMS divisions but thats comparing apples to oranges. Curious what people Are feeling after completing their virtual interviews with the hiring managers?? The HR recruiter phone screen feedback is pretty vanilla and useless.
 




anonymous said:
My thoughts exactly. Will be a tough year or two for many reps in the disadvantaged states. I have been through a few launches like this and some states send everyone to presidents clubs while others are putting everyone on a pip.
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Dead on. My concerns exactly, and the unknowns of how goals will be formulated, and how culture of this brand new division will be regarding tough areas of the country. Then the added pressure of what I assume will be massive expectations for this drug out of the gate,

This drug and BMS Neuro could end up being a great place but unless you are in an easy launch state there are a lot of unknowns and it's a bit of a roll of the dice. The more I think about it, it's tough to leave a "good" job for this unless there is enough sign-in and equity to balance the risk somewhat.
 




anonymous said:
This recruiting process is tricky. Managers on their best behavior putting their best positivity spins on everything. It’s difficulty to get a feel for it all. Will this product and division really be different? I’m sure this post will attract naysayers who had bad experiences in other BMS divisions but thats comparing apples to oranges. Curious what people Are feeling after completing their virtual interviews with the hiring managers?? The HR recruiter phone screen feedback is pretty vanilla and useless.
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If you don't know them, do your homework on your local team. Anyone's guess how much micromanagement and stupid BS will come from the division as a whole at this point, or what the overall culture will be.
 








anonymous said:
Bonus will be force ranked-
That’s how bms runs things in all the business units.
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If that is the case, don’t take a position in a state that doesn’t have good public aid coverage. Schizophrenia patients are all on Medicaid of some form. Whether it’s FFS straight public aid or managed Medicaid, if your state doesn’t have legislation in place that covers mental health drugs, you will be ranked in the bottom. That’s completely out of your control no matter how good a salesperson you are.
 
















The interview process has been completely hijacked by BMS HR. They are making final hiring decisions, not the directors or new managers. It’s a preview into the culture and work experience here. If you thought you thought you were joining a fast paced startup culture to launch an exciting new brand, think again.
 




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