How Long Until Novo Has to Layoff

[anonymous]

hmmmm, there are reps with more business experience and education then some of the managers. Entry level employees?? Who is out of touch?

Hmmmm...entry level refers to the level of your job, not your education or experience. Who is it in the field that is a level lower than the DCS? That’s right - no one. Hence, ‘entry level’ employee. Are you starting to understand? Probably not....

 

[anonymous]

Hmmmm...entry level refers to the level of your job, not your education or experience. Who is it in the field that is a level lower than the DCS? That’s right - no one. Hence, ‘entry level’ employee. Are you starting to understand? Probably not....

That is correct BUT I believe that you missed the OP point and that was that the company would be just fine without many expensive managers who literally add no value even if they're left with these "entry level" employees who often are quite experienced and more knowledgable then said managers.

Are YOU understanding?

 

[anonymous]

That is correct BUT I believe that you missed the OP point and that was that the company would be just fine without many expensive managers who literally add no value even if they're left with these "entry level" employees who often are quite experienced and more knowledgable then said managers.

Are YOU understanding?

I understand the point you’re trying to make, although it is a foolish one. There’s a reason a manager’s job makes more money and requires more experience to attain than a sales reps job - this company, as do virtually all companies, puts more value on the managers job and recognizes that it is more difficult than a reps job and more important to the company. You obviously don’t like that, and just like virtually every front line employee, you think you’re awesome and your boss is worthless. I get the argument - it’s a tired and worn out one on this site. We replaced people like you with DCAs straight out of college a few years back and never saw a drop in performance. That’s the truth, which is why we’ll never cut a boatload off managers and rely on your unsupervised ‘experience’ to pull us through.

 

[anonymous]

I understand the point you’re trying to make, although it is a foolish one. There’s a reason a manager’s job makes more money and requires more experience to attain than a sales reps job - this company, as do virtually all companies, puts more value on the managers job and recognizes that it is more difficult than a reps job and more important to the company. You obviously don’t like that, and just like virtually every front line employee, you think you’re awesome and your boss is worthless. I get the argument - it’s a tired and worn out one on this site. We replaced people like you with DCAs straight out of college a few years back and never saw a drop in performance. That’s the truth, which is why we’ll never cut a boatload off managers and rely on your unsupervised ‘experience’ to pull us through.

Not that this post needs fact-checking, but I remember very well the hue and cry on this site when we added DCAs. Most thought it would be an unmitigated failure: they just couldn't BELIEVE that a Business major from Cal State Northridge or Western Michigan could replicate the "awesome relationship building" expertise of the so called experienced sales pros we had at the time.

 

[anonymous]

I understand the point you’re trying to make, although it is a foolish one. There’s a reason a manager’s job makes more money and requires more experience to attain than a sales reps job - this company, as do virtually all companies, puts more value on the managers job and recognizes that it is more difficult than a reps job and more important to the company. You obviously don’t like that, and just like virtually every front line employee, you think you’re awesome and your boss is worthless. I get the argument - it’s a tired and worn out one on this site. We replaced people like you with DCAs straight out of college a few years back and never saw a drop in performance. That’s the truth, which is why we’ll never cut a boatload off managers and rely on your unsupervised ‘experience’ to pull us through.

You probably have worked at Novo all your life correct? No outside experience? Because if you had you would KNOW that over the last 10-15 years companies have had HUGE reductions in middle mgt. for precisely the opposite reasons you describe. Expensive and adding no value. You can confirm this by speaking to anyone at KPMG, PWS or McKinsey companies that would never hire you because you wouldn't qualify based on the paragraph you've just written showing who little real world experience you have but expert in NN mgt. speak to justify their jobs. Go ahead now and try to convince everyone that middle mgt. hasn't been decimated for the reasons described.

 

[anonymous]

You probably have worked at Novo all your life correct? No outside experience? Because if you had you would KNOW that over the last 10-15 years companies have had HUGE reductions in middle mgt. for precisely the opposite reasons you describe. Expensive and adding no value. You can confirm this by speaking to anyone at KPMG, PWS or McKinsey companies that would never hire you because you wouldn't qualify based on the paragraph you've just written showing who little real world experience you have but expert in NN mgt. speak to justify their jobs. Go ahead now and try to convince everyone that middle mgt. hasn't been decimated for the reasons described.

I admire how opinionated you are while consistently being wrong. I’ve not spent my entire career at NNI. But, I like how you don’t even address the points I made about experience and pay and difficulty of job and simply try to attack me - typical identity arguments. Regardless, rather than encouraging a phone call to a mystery person at a consulting agency to discuss fictitious, unpublished generalities, I’ll just encourage you to google ‘HBR Middle Management’ - then you can read actual, published case studies about the value of your boss in an organization.

Once you’re finished reading actual evidence, then come back, and we can talk. All I have now is your uneducated opinion and emotions about your boss.

 

[anonymous]

I admire how opinionated you are while consistently being wrong. I’ve not spent my entire career at NNI. But, I like how you don’t even address the points I made about experience and pay and difficulty of job and simply try to attack me - typical identity arguments. Regardless, rather than encouraging a phone call to a mystery person at a consulting agency to discuss fictitious, unpublished generalities, I’ll just encourage you to google ‘HBR Middle Management’ - then you can read actual, published case studies about the value of your boss in an organization.

Once you’re finished reading actual evidence, then come back, and we can talk. All I have now is your uneducated opinion and emotions about your boss.

No, I have to agree with the previous post, companies have thinned the ranks of middle management for years now as just COST with little value. HBS articles are not "facts" . I know consultants at those companies and they would agree with every word that was posted. Sorry.

 

[anonymous]

Middle Management=Leadership
Lmfao
All you are is a buffer for the people above you to not hear the real issues of the field when dealing with actually customers.
That’s why not one single one of you DBMs ever stand up and tell an RBD the real situation...when an RBD wants to get in the field you scramble to set up a “glory day” with a rep to call in favors to THEIR customers...

Run Along, Approve an Expense Report or Jump on a Conf Call that means absolutely nothing!!!!
Joke of a job.
Oh, and Write Up another 2Day field ride that you worked 3 hours total, because all of the reps know you are useless to them.
Customers Hate You, Reps Think You’re a Waste....Prove Your Worth.
This ShutDown proved one thing, you’re not needed...Shit, u DBMs ask Reps to Run Conf Calls and frame it as “development Opps”
(Can’t Even do that)
Lmfao

DBM here...what exactly would you like us to do in order to prove our worth? What does that look like...please give me examples? I’m all ears and await your wisdom....

 

[anonymous]

DBM here...what exactly would you like us to do in order to prove our worth? What does that look like...please give me examples? I’m all ears and await your wisdom....

Fellow manager here....most reps just want to be left alone. You pose a good question that I have asked reps also. They usually have few answers or input. In general, people like to bitch, that’s why I retired and raise dogs.

 

[anonymous]

No, I have to agree with the previous post, companies have thinned the ranks of middle management for years now as just COST with little value. HBS articles are not "facts" . I know consultants at those companies and they would agree with every word that was posted. Sorry.

I am glad you and the previous poster have some great, mystery contacts within consulting agencies and you are in lock step agreement that unnamed companies are slashing middle management positions. If you’re saying those ambiguous statements are more factual than published case studies from HBR, then I think we might be at an impasse here. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

 

[anonymous]

I am glad you and the previous poster have some great, mystery contacts within consulting agencies and you are in lock step agreement that unnamed companies are slashing middle management positions. If you’re saying those ambiguous statements are more factual than published case studies from HBR, then I think we might be at an impasse here. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

Slashing middle management positions is not new news, it’s been happening for decades. In general, middle management is much more vulnerable to downturns/downsizing than the front line. Reps generate revenue, management is overhead.

 

[anonymous]

Slashing middle management positions is not new news, it’s been happening for decades. In general, middle management is much more vulnerable to downturns/downsizing than the front line. Reps generate revenue, management is overhead.

Yes, that is just a fact. By the way, to the expert, when you actually go to business school and study HBS cases you know how flawed many of them are and take them with a grain of sale. Also, he appears to think that no one has personal contacts at top consulting firms to gain insight into this matter. Go back to the Kool Aid trough.

 

[anonymous]

Yes, that is just a fact. By the way, to the expert, when you actually go to business school and study HBS cases you know how flawed many of them are and take them with a grain of sale. Also, he appears to think that no one has personal contacts at top consulting firms to gain insight into this matter. Go back to the Kool Aid trough.

im not the guy you’ve been going back and forth with, but I’ll go ahead and ask. are you really saying that a conversation that you’ve supposedly had with someone at a consulting firm is a more reliable source than a HBS case study? i’m not a grad school expert or anything, but that seems to be quite a claim on your part. anybody can make up anything they want to when it comes to a conversation they claim to have had. just saying - it seems like you’re claiming your personal credibility is better than harvard. that might be a little aggressive.

 

[anonymous]

im not the guy you’ve been going back and forth with, but I’ll go ahead and ask. are you really saying that a conversation that you’ve supposedly had with someone at a consulting firm is a more reliable source than a HBS case study? i’m not a grad school expert or anything, but that seems to be quite a claim on your part. anybody can make up anything they want to when it comes to a conversation they claim to have had. just saying - it seems like you’re claiming your personal credibility is better than harvard. that might be a little aggressive.

Amen. But let's see the HBS study that supports lots of middle management. Hell, I need to keep this job so I might as well read it for my own defense.

 

[anonymous]

Honestly all of novo needs a wake up call. A lot of spoiled folks here that could never sell a third or second best in class. That’s why most of you stay. You lack confidence and hide behind that blue bull or cow or what ever the F..k it is. Very fortunate And times are changing people. Cuts are coming people and there is nothing you can do.....

 

[anonymous]

Honestly all of novo needs a wake up call. A lot of spoiled folks here that could never sell a third or second best in class. That’s why most of you stay. You lack confidence and hide behind that blue bull or cow or what ever the F..k it is. Very fortunate And times are changing people. Cuts are coming people and there is nothing you can do.....

Staying because Novo has the absolute best in class products is somehow wrong? Thanks for coming on here and letting people know they might lose their jobs, I hope that gives you fulfillment.

Of course the industry is changing, I think this whole CV thing might have jump started it a bit, and we will all have to adapt.

 

[anonymous]

Staying because Novo has the absolute best in class products is somehow wrong? Thanks for coming on here and letting people know they might lose their jobs, I hope that gives you fulfillment.

Of course the industry is changing, I think this whole CV thing might have jump started it a bit, and we will all have to adapt.

I don’t think he faulted you for liking the fact that Novo has great products. I think he was saying you couldn’t cut it elsewhere. He was just being a douchebag. Typical CP stuff.

 

[anonymous]

Why is the person considered a “ He” ? A female can’t be honest and lay it out there .

 

[anonymous]

Why is the person considered a “ He” ? A female can’t be honest and lay it out there .

Why are you acting like there are only 2 genders?

 

[anonymous]

That is correct BUT I believe that you missed the OP point and that was that the company would be just fine without many expensive managers who literally add no value even if they're left with these "entry level" employees who often are quite experienced and more knowledgable then said managers.

Are YOU understanding?

The simple fact of the matter is that reps won’t do sh^t without management holding them even somewhat accountable. And listening to the b#%ching and whining, and handling all of the direction and day to day is more than a full time job in itself contrary to popular belief. Every single manager has likely been a rep, and I doubt a single one would say the management job is easier than the rep job. You all think you know so much, but you’re clueless.

And the sales rep job is extremely important, the branded drugs don’t sell themselves anymore. Plain and simple. So you do have the most important job in the entire organization contrary to your feelings of worthlessness. But that said, you need management/leadership to hold you accountable to doing it. Or you won’t.