Compliance Inteview (Urology)

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We were in a meeting when AC tried to convince LL and CB not to raise the allocations for the future when someone arbitrated. He said raise it for the quarter that you are arbitrating. Explained if you raise the allocation for the future the rep is locked in fore ever and this is why everyone has over inflated allocations. They didn't want to hear it because they wanted the fake numbers. Then they wouldn't allow you to lower them to what was correct. Try to explain to legal why people have 700k goals but really never tried to cheat the system. Try to explain why the Cleveland territory rep and manager would beg the company to lower their allocation and management would say no. Who is at fault there?
 




I agree with the last post they shook me down and asked for any employee that had questionable allocations i think they are trying to clean house and not give out packages ... Makes sense .....
 




anonymous said:
My manager never pressured anyone into changing allocations, but maybe I was lucky. Shared account allocations in my territory are very, very low, because only a few docs do hospital cases (like 1-2/quarter in a hospital) and most are in dedicated surgery centers or in the office. It's easy to track accurately--show up for the cases, and only allocate for what you know is true. You'll hit your number if you're honest. You just won't win trips or make huge payouts.
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On the surface you sound like an exception. Maybe you had 100k quarterly goals, that wasn't the case for the majority. I'd be interested in how you hit 80% annual growth rates? If that goal is the case, you're probably newer. But, if you've been here greater than a year I'm surprised Allergan hired such a dull candidate, nieve doesn't even start to explain you. In the end managers will be no different than the reps, they were given marching orders from above. They knew the people they could count on to get the job done. You were obviously on the outside of what was/is really happening here.

To the holyer than thou crowd, you have no clue what you're talking about. You all can be lemmings and get steamrolled by a 130 billion dollar company, that's your choice. Evidence is abound, this isn't a simple matter of a couple bad apples. It's must be nice to live in such a simple world.
 




anonymous said:
My manager never pressured anyone into changing allocations, but maybe I was lucky. Shared account allocations in my territory are very, very low, because only a few docs do hospital cases (like 1-2/quarter in a hospital) and most are in dedicated surgery centers or in the office. It's easy to track accurately--show up for the cases, and only allocate for what you know is true. You'll hit your number if you're honest. You just won't win trips or make huge payouts.
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Dear Polly-Anna-

You have an overly simplistic view of what is going on. I know several reps here who are honest as the day is long. They consistently fall in the middle of the pack and one nearly was put on a pip for average/poor numbers and labeled as a non-performer. There is so much more to this and some of you just won't get it.
 




anonymous said:
Dear Polly-Anna-

You have an overly simplistic view of what is going on. I know several reps here who are honest as the day is long. They consistently fall in the middle of the pack and one nearly was put on a pip for average/poor numbers and labeled as a non-performer. There is so much more to this and some of you just won't get it.
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You sound like such a top-notch person. Does it feel good to be a bully? I bet you blend right into the Allergan culture beautifully. Everyone knows that honest reps were given a hard time by management. They were labeled underperformers. If the honest people hit their number, they were coming in at 100, maybe a little more. That put them in the middle of the pack, and sometimes the bottom, after the "top performers" submitted their thousands of dollars in arbitration. Then CB and LL started to look at their numbers and the pressure started to come down, but they still didn't cave and play the game. It was wrong they whole time. Maybe the person above worked for a manager who didn't force inflated allocations. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, and it doesn't justify being an a$$hole to that person. And it doesn't mean the honest people didn't know what was happening. But the ones who cheated, maxing bonus very quarter? There didn't seem to be a lot of public outcry from them until all of this went down.
 




Everyone has the freedom of choice.
Regardless of your alleged offense, did you make even one bad choice?

The answer is probably yes. No shame in that, we all do at times. Were the consequences fair? I don't know enough about each case to have an opinion, but the punishment seems...extreme. That piece IS concerning and compassion does exist.

For the ones who have nothing but hate to spew and fingers to point...take your own advice. Don't be naive. Don't use blanket statements or make assumptions. Stick to what you actually know. Most importantly, stop burning bridges on your way out!
 




anonymous said:
Everyone has the freedom of choice.
Regardless of your alleged offense, did you make even one bad choice?

The answer is probably yes. No shame in that, we all do at times. Were the consequences fair? I don't know enough about each case to have an opinion, but the punishment seems...extreme. That piece IS concerning and compassion does exist.

For the ones who have nothing but hate to spew and fingers to point...take your own advice. Don't be naive. Don't use blanket statements or make assumptions. Stick to what you actually know. Most importantly, stop burning bridges on your way out!
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The division is done within 6-12 months anyway, burn away. I don't see people that were let go begging for their positions back, or claiming they shouldn't have been let go. It's the process people are taking issue with. They had no problem paying three former managers to shut up. The people pointing fingers are the ones casting judgments on the people let go. Nothing is as simple as it seems. What's being lost in all of this is the implied pressure put on reps to do things that were not right. You think this is over with?

As stated earlier, this would have blown over if they did the right thing for the individuals being shown the door. My feeling is that Actavis did this on purpose, knowing people will be disgruntled, allowing them to feed off the raw emotions of people turning on one another. They get more "free" information for their investigation, allowing round two and three to progress. This is no different than the crack dealer on the corner getting busted, then moving to get to the powers at the top. Well, with one exception, the person on the bottom usually gets a deal. Here, they're not even smart enough to do that. What's great about this is, they have no clue about how much we really know, and have solid evidence of. I'm not giving anything away without at least money owed.
 




anonymous said:
You sound like such a top-notch person. Does it feel good to be a bully? I bet you blend right into the Allergan culture beautifully. Everyone knows that honest reps were given a hard time by management. They were labeled underperformers. If the honest people hit their number, they were coming in at 100, maybe a little more. That put them in the middle of the pack, and sometimes the bottom, after the "top performers" submitted their thousands of dollars in arbitration. Then CB and LL started to look at their numbers and the pressure started to come down, but they still didn't cave and play the game. It was wrong they whole time. Maybe the person above worked for a manager who didn't force inflated allocations. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, and it doesn't justify being an a$$hole to that person. And it doesn't mean the honest people didn't know what was happening. But the ones who cheated, maxing bonus very quarter? There didn't seem to be a lot of public outcry from them until all of this went down.
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Me? A Bully? No. If you think that was a bullying comment, you are reading far too much into it. We are making the same point. Because someone isn't here doesn't mean that they were winning big and gaming the system. That's point I'm trying to make.
 




anonymous said:
The division is done within 6-12 months anyway, burn away. I don't see people that were let go begging for their positions back, or claiming they shouldn't have been let go. It's the process people are taking issue with. They had no problem paying three former managers to shut up. The people pointing fingers are the ones casting judgments on the people let go. Nothing is as simple as it seems. What's being lost in all of this is the implied pressure put on reps to do things that were not right. You think this is over with?

As stated earlier, this would have blown over if they did the right thing for the individuals being shown the door. My feeling is that Actavis did this on purpose, knowing people will be disgruntled, allowing them to feed off the raw emotions of people turning on one another. They get more "free" information for their investigation, allowing round two and three to progress. This is no different than the crack dealer on the corner getting busted, then moving to get to the powers at the top. Well, with one exception, the person on the bottom usually gets a deal. Here, they're not even smart enough to do that. What's great about this is, they have no clue about how much we really know, and have solid evidence of. I'm not giving anything away without at least money owed.
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I agree with your prediction, the division probably has the year to prove itself or its done.

I don't think it's over. It never is. And I only meant to be helpful with my advice to not burn bridges. Maybe I should have said, "Hide your identity better if you want to call out specific people in a public forum because you still need a job" But hey, free advice is worth the price you pay.

I share your opinion when it comes to the way the managers were dealt with vs. what just went down, but I figure "they" had a room full of expensive lawyers and experts confirm that "they" would get away with doing it that way...Although, I do like the idea that it was purposefully orchestrated over months and executed with precision for some grander plot because that gives us all a whole lot more purpose and meaning. It's certainly something exciting to think about. Maybe it's not just a bunch of regular people doing their regular everyday jobs?
 




You talk about how people were successful by cheating in arbitration. Anyone that's been here from the beginning knows there was no arbitration the first two years. So the people that were successful 2012 and 2013 did it without playing games. Then the numbers started to get bad again and management made up a crazy system to hit numbers for now and like usual they never thought about the future. Isn't it funny how management just asked everyone their allocation changes but you couldn't put them in writing they had to be by phone and when I say phone no texting. Like usual, management covering theirselves because they know it was wrong.
 




anonymous said:
You talk about how people were successful by cheating in arbitration. Anyone that's been here from the beginning knows there was no arbitration the first two years. So the people that were successful 2012 and 2013 did it without playing games. Then the numbers started to get bad again and management made up a crazy system to hit numbers for now and like usual they never thought about the future. Isn't it funny how management just asked everyone their allocation changes but you couldn't put them in writing they had to be by phone and when I say phone no texting. Like usual, management covering theirselves because they know it was wrong.
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From day 1 reps were instructed to put in an allocation to hospitals even they thought they might have someone that would be injecting within the quarter. So, in 2012 and 2013 people were still cheating. They hedged their bets off of neurology and migraine business.
 








2012 and 2013 was crazy ! Everyone was taking every pharmacy at 100 percent even though most of the business was done through buy and bill . That was a true bunch of cheaters . Reps were also taking any order of Botox and allocating it to a urologist even if the doc never touched a vial so this place has a bad track record for at least 4 plus years already
 




I totally agree i came here in 2012 and had all these allocations on pharmacies and on rehab centers from the previous rep ... What makes that any better than arbitration ? Nothing ..... So basically Actavis thought urology was 150 million and it is more likely 50 million ? I bet LL has a lot of explaining to do..... I doubt Bill M can be happy with all of this ? Now they are asking reps to raise allocations so urology doesn't collapse ? Guess what it already did
 




anonymous said:
The division is done within 6-12 months anyway, burn away. I don't see people that were let go begging for their positions back, or claiming they shouldn't have been let go. It's the process people are taking issue with. They had no problem paying three former managers to shut up. The people pointing fingers are the ones casting judgments on the people let go. Nothing is as simple as it seems. What's being lost in all of this is the implied pressure put on reps to do things that were not right. You think this is over with?

As stated earlier, this would have blown over if they did the right thing for the individuals being shown the door. My feeling is that Actavis did this on purpose, knowing people will be disgruntled, allowing them to feed off the raw emotions of people turning on one another. They get more "free" information for their investigation, allowing round two and three to progress. This is no different than the crack dealer on the corner getting busted, then moving to get to the powers at the top. Well, with one exception, the person on the bottom usually gets a deal. Here, they're not even smart enough to do that. What's great about this is, they have no clue about how much we really know, and have solid evidence of. I'm not giving anything away without at least money owed.
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Round two for reps is next week. If you receive the "compliance email", quit that day. You will still get your Q4 and Q5 bonus plus two weeks.
 




More reps next week ? I hope they are bringing in all the managers .
More slaughter of the sales force and managers get to survive ? This is getting old . The upper management needs to go . And the head of arbitration needs to be questioned before other reps continue to fired!!
 




anonymous said:
2012 and 2013 was crazy ! Everyone was taking every pharmacy at 100 percent even though most of the business was done through buy and bill . That was a true bunch of cheaters . Reps were also taking any order of Botox and allocating it to a urologist even if the doc never touched a vial so this place has a bad track record for at least 4 plus years already
Click to expand...
 




anonymous said:
More reps next week ? I hope they are bringing in all the managers .
More slaughter of the sales force and managers get to survive ? This is getting old . The upper management needs to go . And the head of arbitration needs to be questioned before other reps continue to fired!!
Click to expand...

They have to interview additional reps for "fairly balance" because Actavis is all about fair balance. This will limit their liability once the "hostile work envirnonment" lawsuits start hitting them.

Once the final reps are interviewed and Actavis receives more intel on "suspected cheaters", they will then get to the managers.
LL will be safe because it began before her and she was quietly changing the comp plan. Her two BFFs, CB and DM, will be her scape goats. EB was doing as he was told by RC so he is NOT safe because the Actavis lawyers didn't care if your manager made you do something improper.
 








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