Business School Case Study

[anonymous]

You might be right because in actually a Rep today is nothing but a robotic advertisement that some how believes they are sales. It’s a joke compared to 20 years ago and even then in the beginning of the demise of Pharma it was 100x better than what a current rep lowers themselves too.

You mean 20 years ago when we could get them a nice cigar, a great meal and a scotch, tickets to the game (pick your sport), dine and go, gas and go, golf once a week together, and stroll into the physicians lounge at the hospital like we owned the place.

We were the kings of selling (women were just breaking into the biz). Take all of that away and you’re not really selling anymore. It’s easy to just promote a product under the current rules. You used have to entertain, get reservations at the newest restaurant, covertly import Cubans, get the best box seats, tolerate drunken doctor spouses, feed kids at speaker programs on erectile dysfunction. That was selling.

 

[anonymous]

You mean 20 years ago when we could get them a nice cigar, a great meal and a scotch, tickets to the game (pick your sport), dine and go, gas and go, golf once a week together, and stroll into the physicians lounge at the hospital like we owned the place.

We were the kings of selling (women were just breaking into the biz). Take all of that away and you’re not really selling anymore. It’s easy to just promote a product under the current rules. You used have to entertain, get reservations at the newest restaurant, covertly import Cubans, get the best box seats, tolerate drunken doctor spouses, feed kids at speaker programs on erectile dysfunction. That was selling.

Well that previous post is a little ego extravaganza driven post.

However in 2001 it was just starting to get bad w/ multiple pods and petty managers but yes at least you could still golf, do a focused round table as MD did go out, taken Mds and spouses to plays and we still had box seats to sporting events.

The really great time to be a rep was where you actually sat down, took Md and Wife to dinner and sold something was from about 1990 through about 2000. You had one manager who never worked w/ you and treated you like an adult and you were the only one in your territory. It was such a great job up until the introduction of Lipitor and Viagra then all the Pettiness started w/ the hiring of all those inexperienced young managers and pairing teams up. That's what started all the Cluster F'sssss. From there every year got a little worse and by 2003 there were 8 different teams getting 8 different orders from a 25 yo snot nosed manager that thot they were a CEO. Mom reps getting away w/ not working using the excuse they had to take and pick their kids up from school and casuing most of the drama in districts and at least 1 rep in every district that thot they knew everything and was a complete ass kiss. You never saw that behavior pre Lipitor everyone was friends, no one bothered each other since we all had our own territories and just called and took a select number of MD/wife to dinner once a month and really really got to know those MD Families and they all became friends and close as family. That will never happen again.

 

[anonymous]

Well that previous post is a little ego extravaganza driven post.

However in 2001 it was just starting to get bad w/ multiple pods and petty managers but yes at least you could still golf, do a focused round table as MD did go out, taken Mds and spouses to plays and we still had box seats to sporting events.

The really great time to be a rep was where you actually sat down, took Md and Wife to dinner and sold something was from about 1990 through about 2000. You had one manager who never worked w/ you and treated you like an adult and you were the only one in your territory. It was such a great job up until the introduction of Lipitor and Viagra then all the Pettiness started w/ the hiring of all those inexperienced young managers and pairing teams up. That's what started all the Cluster F'sssss. From there every year got a little worse and by 2003 there were 8 different teams getting 8 different orders from a 25 yo snot nosed manager that thot they were a CEO. Mom reps getting away w/ not working using the excuse they had to take and pick their kids up from school and casuing most of the drama in districts and at least 1 rep in every district that thot they knew everything and was a complete ass kiss. You never saw that behavior pre Lipitor everyone was friends, no one bothered each other since we all had our own territories and just called and took a select number of MD/wife to dinner once a month and really really got to know those MD Families and they all became friends and close as family. That will never happen again.

I was a noobie then, and youre partially right. I wouldn't place blame squarely on working moms' shoulders (for many reasons). The Share of Voice and Reach and Frequency wars is what started the mess. I'm pretty sure that directive came from HQ's. hired guns, some consulting group like McKinsey. Ironically, it was the fact that we had a handful of reps calling on every office for the same product that many of us here got hired and later promoted. But I digress---
back to my original point: I've had three and heard of quite a few non-working managers. Almost as bad are those show up for sample inventory and year-end reviews, and 2x a year they roll in a little bit before an office lunch, sit quietly during our lunch presentation, afterwards take us out to a 1 and a half hour lunch to "talk things over". After this fake coaching session/lunch, they go home.
What a crock.

 

[anonymous]

I was a noobie then, and youre partially right. I wouldn't place blame squarely on working moms' shoulders (for many reasons). The Share of Voice and Reach and Frequency wars is what started the mess. I'm pretty sure that directive came from HQ's. hired guns, some consulting group like McKinsey. Ironically, it was the fact that we had a handful of reps calling on every office for the same product that many of us here got hired and later promoted. But I digress---
back to my original point: I've had three and heard of quite a few non-working managers. Almost as bad are those show up for sample inventory and year-end reviews, and 2x a year they roll in a little bit before an office lunch, sit quietly during our lunch presentation, afterwards take us out to a 1 and a half hour lunch to "talk things over". After this fake coaching session/lunch, they go home.
What a crock.

there were a few managers that did this but they were fat and few between. If they were old school and not a reversely hired dweeb you were good but any new hired manager under 30 and they were worthless and petty.

 

[anonymous]

Well that previous post is a little ego extravaganza driven post.

However in 2001 it was just starting to get bad w/ multiple pods and petty managers but yes at least you could still golf, do a focused round table as MD did go out, taken Mds and spouses to plays and we still had box seats to sporting events.

The really great time to be a rep was where you actually sat down, took Md and Wife to dinner and sold something was from about 1990 through about 2000. You had one manager who never worked w/ you and treated you like an adult and you were the only one in your territory. It was such a great job up until the introduction of Lipitor and Viagra then all the Pettiness started w/ the hiring of all those inexperienced young managers and pairing teams up. That's what started all the Cluster F'sssss. From there every year got a little worse and by 2003 there were 8 different teams getting 8 different orders from a 25 yo snot nosed manager that thot they were a CEO. Mom reps getting away w/ not working using the excuse they had to take and pick their kids up from school and causing most of the drama in districts and at least 1 rep in every district that thot they knew everything and was a complete ass kiss. You never saw that behavior pre Lipitor everyone was friends, no one bothered each other since we all had our own territories and just called and took a select number of MD/wife to dinner once a month and really really got to know those MD Families and they all became friends and close as family. That will never happen again.

Yes all of this.

Big Big difference in the Rep today and the way it was is that these new Reps will attempt to brag about how good some of their relationships are which is a joke because those MDs are friends w/ all the reps not just select ones. These MDs are the Old Diners Club they say yes and are amiable to every one. Where the Old School Reps had relationships w/ the HARDEST most difficult MDs. Not only did they have relationships w/ the hardest Mds they knew the Mds Family kids and did off work stuff them. The business was different then, you didn't have all this ridiculous matrix and call frequency, you did what you had to do to "Better the Business". If that meant spending a full day planning and waiting to see the Main MD in your territory that was acceptable. Building relationships like that take time and patience they develop over time as in a year or two. Not like the rep today that runs around w/ their hair on fire trying to explain things to a petty DM or fighting w/ partners. All these reps have left is the old diners club MDs or the amiable MDs that are still seeing reps to get the office a lunch. The reps today just don't have the time, resources or ability to devote to what it really would take to truely crack a No See important prescriber.

 

[anonymous]

You mean 20 years ago when we could get them a nice cigar, a great meal and a scotch, tickets to the game (pick your sport), dine and go, gas and go, golf once a week together, and stroll into the physicians lounge at the hospital like we owned the place.

We were the kings of selling (women were just breaking into the biz). Take all of that away and you’re not really selling anymore. It’s easy to just promote a product under the current rules. You used have to entertain, get reservations at the newest restaurant, covertly import Cubans, get the best box seats, tolerate drunken doctor spouses, feed kids at speaker programs on erectile dysfunction. That was selling.

Entertaining and generating scripts is very easy if your drug is clearly superior, as Norvasc, Lipitor and Viagra were. Thats not selling, friend. And you're leaving out the payola: buying residents and fellows Braunwald and other expensive gifts, handing out tix by the handful to ballgames or shows and pretending that you attended with the docs. One of the other reps had to do a bunch of Dine & Dash or Gas & Go. I'm too embarrassed to explain what those were. Big city reps used to brag about taking their male docs to strip clubs.
Thats not selling.

 

[anonymous]

Cafe Pharma is no longer relevant at all. People that retired 20 years dominate this site. Once the few masters retire they can change the name of this site. 1% opinion from current master and 99% comments from retired reps pretending to be current employee who know a master. Likely this is 9 people (2 current employees) who literally post or comment on every post each week. Now spend hours of their time bashing company and bashing the industry. Cafe Pharma died after FFO. It's time to move on.

 

[anonymous]

Cafe Pharma is no longer relevant at all. People that retired 20 years dominate this site. Once the few masters retire they can change the name of this site. 1% opinion from current master and 99% comments from retired reps pretending to be current employee who know a master. Likely this is 9 people (2 current employees) who literally post or comment on every post each week. Now spend hours of their time bashing company and bashing the industry. Cafe Pharma died after FFO. It's time to move on.

let’s face it the industry does suck. Whether these comments are from past or present reps they are all true. You just don’t like it because you are stuck in a dead end job and can’t figure out how to move on. Now you want want to point the finger at CP instead of facing facts and your reality.

 

[anonymous]

Cafe Pharma is no longer relevant at all. People that retired 20 years dominate this site. Once the few masters retire they can change the name of this site. 1% opinion from current master and 99% comments from retired reps pretending to be current employee who know a master. Likely this is 9 people (2 current employees) who literally post or comment on every post each week. Now spend hours of their time bashing company and bashing the industry. Cafe Pharma died after FFO. It's time to move on.

Are you one of the retirees you are whining about? I hope so, because that post took a few minutes to compose. I hope that you are not wasting time on here, instead of holding your 4th VCC of the day.

 

[anonymous]

So the person who thinks the company, industry and job sucks.. What is your point? Don't work for company (probably don't anymore) and don't work in industry (probably don't anymore). Are you trying to rally the other 6 retirees who post here every single day or have them jump in to support you with anecdotes from 90's (disguised like a current employee in 2022). So you don't like the company then and now. You don't like the industry then and now. It's 2022.. shouldn't you be doing New York Times crossword right now.

 

[anonymous]

So the person who thinks the company, industry and job sucks.. What is your point? Don't work for company (probably don't anymore) and don't work in industry (probably don't anymore). Are you trying to rally the other 6 retirees who post here every single day or have them jump in to support you with anecdotes from 90's (disguised like a current employee in 2022). So you don't like the company then and now. You don't like the industry then and now. It's 2022.. shouldn't you be doing New York Times crossword right now.

Why does it trigger you so much who comes on this site or the PFE board any way? CP is a free site. You actually went as far as changing the font, making it bold and color too!! HAHA Well, that's reason ONE! Because of that!!

Reason two: Maybe, just maybe there is at least one person that is thinking about moving on since they they finally discovered that the job offers no self respect or redeeming qualities of contributing to society and by having someone post the realities of the job finally gives them the self confidence to move on. Every board reads the same... there is nothing new and unusual that happens at PFE that dosen't happen some where else. The point is the Job used to be a good job. (a LONG time ago)...it isn't anymore and there is no way to put lipstick on this pig you call Pharma Sales now.

There is no way to disguise what happened in the 90s compared to now since in 2022 you can't do anything except be a Robotic Advertisement through a window...if you or anyone else who would like to debate this being a contributing member of society please by all means post how this career contributes to anything...

 

[anonymous]

there were a few managers that did this but they were fat and few between. If they were old school and not a reversely hired dweeb you were good but any new hired manager under 30 and they were worthless and petty.

You must be joking! The young DMs in my region were all micro-managers, each thinking that they would be the next SVP of Sales in a few years. It was the tenured DMs that were ghosts----at least in my experience. Or if they weren't ghosts, they would do exactly what that poster said. They would show up before an office lunch, and afterwards would take the rep to a long lunch. And then they would scoot home by 2 o'clock for "paperwork" or "regional call".

 

[anonymous]

You must be joking! The young DMs in my region were all micro-managers, each thinking that they would be the next SVP of Sales in a few years. It was the tenured DMs that were ghosts----at least in my experience. Or if they weren't ghosts, they would do exactly what that poster said. They would show up before an office lunch, and afterwards would take the rep to a long lunch. And then they would scoot home by 2 o'clock for "paperwork" or "regional call".

this is what a good DM does. Do you want them in your car 8 hours a day??

 

[anonymous]

You must be joking! The young DMs in my region were all micro-managers, each thinking that they would be the next SVP of Sales in a few years. It was the tenured DMs that were ghosts----at least in my experience. Or if they weren't ghosts, they would do exactly what that poster said. They would show up before an office lunch, and afterwards would take the rep to a long lunch. And then they would scoot home by 2 o'clock for "paperwork" or "regional call".

That’s exactly what the post said moron.. Far and few between”. Like nonexistent

 

[anonymous]

That’s exactly what the post said moron.. Far and few between”. Like nonexistent

My DM is literally like Nancy Pelosi, all in on something (like defund the police), but when things go terrible she flip flops and acts like she never said or did what we all saw her do

 

[anonymous]

this is what a good DM does. Do you want them in your car 8 hours a day??

I have no dog in this fight, so to speak. But I'm pretty sure that Nick L would just love to hear his managers brag about doing a grand total of 18 to 20 "field rides" a year.

 

[anonymous]

Yes the industry is changing and yes it’s changed a lot from 1999, but given you worked for a company that helped to win WW2 and the pandemic your credibility about company that has not helped society is not worth debating. Maybe you should work at target and complain anonymously that some cashiers make $14.50 and really don’t do anything. Please return your Procardia bonus

 

[anonymous]

Yes the industry is changing and yes it’s changed a lot from 1999, but given you worked for a company that helped to win WW2 and the pandemic your credibility about company that has not helped society is not worth debating. Maybe you should work at target and complain anonymously that some cashiers make $14.50 and really don’t do anything. Please return your Procardia bonus

this is such a dumb post. As in pfe won ww2 all by themselves. Go ahead and lead w/ that as not only were there 100s of companies that contributed women worked in factories while men were over seas fighting. It was a time that America has forgotten about and really needs to come back to

 

[anonymous]

Yes the industry is changing and yes it’s changed a lot from 1999, but given you worked for a company that helped to win WW2 and the pandemic your credibility about company that has not helped society is not worth debating. Maybe you should work at target and complain anonymously that some cashiers make $14.50 and really don’t do anything. Please return your Procardia bonus

This is totally offensive- but totally the Pfizer arrogance.
My father was drafted into WW2 as a high school senior - and there were so many men who didn’t survive to be able to have a future family.

 

[anonymous]

Exactly your dad was in WW2 your grandpa in civil war but your posting like a current employee instead of taking your afternoon nap. Your still pissed that the penicillin reps were overpaid and they didn’t do enough during the war. You probably complained it’s not fair when Upjohn reps got alligator briefcase but now you spend your days disparaging PFE.