Another Rheumatology Restructure

[anonymous]

Your ceo said on our call base salary will remain the same and that they didn't buy our company just for the drugs/pipeline but also for the people who drove our success. His words not ours.

Hahaha What else is he going to say? I’m sure he went out in the field as an Undercover Boss as part of the due diligence. Don’t be naïve

 

[anonymous]

Your ceo said on our call base salary will remain the same and that they didn't buy our company just for the drugs/pipeline but also for the people who drove our success. His words not ours.

They said they same thing when they bought Otezla and it's people. I made $75,000 a year in equity awards alone at Celgene and I got $2000 at Amgen. They won't take your salary, but you get a lump sum instead of a raise because they say you are compensated, "above market.".

Not bad people, but they run the biggest Pharma mentality I've ever witnessed yet they think they are biotech.

Whenever things get bad their recipe for success is:

1-met and discuss
2-beat on the sales forces to make more calls on top targets, even ones that are dead or moved to Europe
3-met and discuss
4-beat on the sales forces to make more calls
5-repeat steps 1-4

They run a 1991 playbook in commercial

 

[anonymous]

Hahaha What else is he going to say? I’m sure he went out in the field as an Undercover Boss as part of the due diligence. Don’t be naïve

I think he told the truth. It is a well known fact that Horizon is a leader in Rheumatology. We've been the hottest stock for the last 5 years. That doesn't mean everyone will get kept or we won't have some layoffs- but Amgen needs Horizon for a culture shift. They need Horizon for the profit we bring in. They will need Horizon employees for both of that. Just because we make on average 20-30k more on our base vs. a typical Amgen rep is nothing in the big picture of the P&L. I heard yesterday that we will operate separately for most of 2023. Which is why Amgen not Horizon was insistent on not paying out unvested employee shares- they want us to stick around for as long as possible.

Its great to be king!

 

[anonymous]

They said they same thing when they bought Otezla and it's people. I made $75,000 a year in equity awards alone at Celgene and I got $2000 at Amgen. They won't take your salary, but you get a lump sum instead of a raise because they say you are compensated, "above market.".

Not bad people, but they run the biggest Pharma mentality I've ever witnessed yet they think they are biotech.

Whenever things get bad their recipe for success is:

1-met and discuss
2-beat on the sales forces to make more calls on top targets, even ones that are dead or moved to Europe
3-met and discuss
4-beat on the sales forces to make more calls
5-repeat steps 1-4

They run a 1991 playbook in commercial

Otezla reps didn't make close to what Horizon reps are making. You sold an oral medicine that barely worked but also didn't have the side effects that biologics come with. It was an easy sell for 1st line before a biologic. No one ever thought Celgene had great sales people. You had hot young sales people. Reminded me of Forest sales reps. Just facts.

 

[anonymous]

Otezla reps didn't make close to what Horizon reps are making. You sold an oral medicine that barely worked but also didn't have the side effects that biologics come with. It was an easy sell for 1st line before a biologic. No one ever thought Celgene had great sales people. You had hot young sales people. Reminded me of Forest sales reps. Just facts.

Bad facts. It was not an easy sell at all 2014-2017 when it was double and triple step edits. It only became easier when we drove enough volume to get coverage. I am no longer with Celgene or BMY, but do market research now. I can assure you that industry wide, the people that counted thought Otezla had great sales people. Sure, I guess there were a few pretty ones, but the scoreboard says they took a drug that barely works and drove it to 2 plus billion in sales and then sold it to Amgen for 13 billion. It wasn't the science or the efficacy or the outstanding molecule that did that. It was the Celgene sales force. As for Forest, they were terrible and nothing like Celgene. Forest was cheap, and mean, and aggressive. Kinda like a few of my boyfriends.

 

[anonymous]

Bad facts. It was not an easy sell at all 2014-2017 when it was double and triple step edits. It only became easier when we drove enough volume to get coverage. I am no longer with Celgene or BMY, but do market research now. I can assure you that industry wide, the people that counted thought Otezla had great sales people. Sure, I guess there were a few pretty ones, but the scoreboard says they took a drug that barely works and drove it to 2 plus billion in sales and then sold it to Amgen for 13 billion. It wasn't the science or the efficacy or the outstanding molecule that did that. It was the Celgene sales force. As for Forest, they were terrible and nothing like Celgene. Forest was cheap, and mean, and aggressive. Kinda like a few of my boyfriends.

Princess every product has its challenges...otezla definitely wasn't a hard sell versus other products. Especially krystexxa. I was a TLL in the southeast and I can assure you "the people that mattered" ie thought leaders in rhuematology didn't think much about your reps.

 

[anonymous]

I think he told the truth. It is a well known fact that Horizon is a leader in Rheumatology. We've been the hottest stock for the last 5 years. That doesn't mean everyone will get kept or we won't have some layoffs- but Amgen needs Horizon for a culture shift. They need Horizon for the profit we bring in. They will need Horizon employees for both of that. Just because we make on average 20-30k more on our base vs. a typical Amgen rep is nothing in the big picture of the P&L. I heard yesterday that we will operate separately for most of 2023. Which is why Amgen not Horizon was insistent on not paying out unvested employee shares- they want us to stick around for as long as possible.

Its great to be king!

Oh dear...you are in for a huge culture shock. Amgen will not allow Horizon to shift "their culture". The Horizon reps will be forced to mind their manners here and shift over to the Amgen culture. You are delusional if you think the whale of a Company that Amgen is will change their culture to mimic HOrizon's current culture. That's not happening.

You may keep your salary, but you will not get the bonuses . You will be disliked by every current INBU rep as some have been here 15 years and are making $30 K less than you do.

You will be on call after call. You will have weekly or biweekly district calls, and you'll do their quarterly validation taking Dr.'s out and putting Dr's in and then Amgen will wipe all the work you did and you will have calls you have to make on Dr.'s that moved to other states or retired or died. And YOU, my dear will be responsible for their sales goals. You'l probably have PCP targets too. Welcome to Amgen!!!

 

[anonymous]

They said they same thing when they bought Otezla and it's people. I made $75,000 a year in equity awards alone at Celgene and I got $2000 at Amgen. They won't take your salary, but you get a lump sum instead of a raise because they say you are compensated, "above market.".

Not bad people, but they run the biggest Pharma mentality I've ever witnessed yet they think they are biotech.

Whenever things get bad their recipe for success is:

1-met and discuss
2-beat on the sales forces to make more calls on top targets, even ones that are dead or moved to Europe
3-met and discuss
4-beat on the sales forces to make more calls
5-repeat steps 1-4

They run a 1991 playbook in commercial

You are so spot on and 100% correct..

 

[anonymous]

It's earning per effort that matters son. Sounds like you have been drinking Tim's cool-aid.

I too am a Horizon rep selling pegloticase. Here's the problem. It's the effort required to make bank.

What's better? An Amgen rep selling Enbrel working 25 hours a week making 250 total package or a Horizon rep working 70 yours a week making 325?

To each his own, but I hope I get stuck selling Enbrel. Quick survey since we are in the same offices? Ever meet an Enbrel rep? Know any names? Ever seen evidence of them anywhere? They set up display units and no one ever shows up at the booth. Go to grands rounds at the hospital. Ever seen one? There is little evidence they leave the house.

I will gladly disappear into their world of teleconferences, Veeva Engage and whatever silliness they want because I can do it all from my beach condo in Rosarito. Surf's up!

Enbrel reps are worthless and the majority have absolutely nothing to do. So, if you do work at Horizon and make a ton of dough, you can cut your work down by 50% and make less money. That's a good strategy. No one works here in most of the divisions. As long as you check the boxes and record the calls that you are to make which everyone does....you'll be fine UNTIL you have a manger who wants to eliminate you. Then he or she will make your life miserable and lie about you and say you are not making the calls you said you were and then you are gone. Even though 99% of reps at this place lie about their calls, you will be terminated as he or she was out to get you. Just know that. I know rep after rep that this happened to. Stay on the good side of your manager and let he or she know you are busting your ass and suck up to them and do the extras, and you will have loads of free time to exercise, hunt, fish, shop, take your kids to school, clean your house, do garage projects,etc. Just keep telling them how amazing they are and get your POA met and suck up, and your life will be micromanaged but you won't work much.

I am on the good side of my DSM so I do all of the above, work about 2 or 3 hours a day , put my calls in, show up smiling and I'm making good money doing little work...

 

[anonymous]

Oh dear...you are in for a huge culture shock. Amgen will not allow Horizon to shift "their culture". The Horizon reps will be forced to mind their manners here and shift over to the Amgen culture. You are delusional if you think the whale of a Company that Amgen is will change their culture to mimic HOrizon's current culture. That's not happening.

You may keep your salary, but you will not get the bonuses . You will be disliked by every current INBU rep as some have been here 15 years and are making $30 K less than you do.

You will be on call after call. You will have weekly or biweekly district calls, and you'll do their quarterly validation taking Dr.'s out and putting Dr's in and then Amgen will wipe all the work you did and you will have calls you have to make on Dr.'s that moved to other states or retired or died. And YOU, my dear will be responsible for their sales goals. You'l probably have PCP targets too. Welcome to Amgen!!!

Truth being spoken. The validation is a joke. You spend hours doing the work and then they don't implement the changes and add some database from quarters before yet I get the goal.

Our DMs know validation is a joke, that's why we are coached to fake calls. If we have idiots telling us that someone is an A Enbrel target who died in 2018, well it's just easier to fake a call.

The only constant is that it's easy to take poor performers and claim they are now in dermatology. You can slough them off to those jokers and they don't get a say in it. Kinda feel sorry for them, but again I really don't because they have such a better life than we do. They don't have to do all the weekly teleconferences, QBRs, etc.

 

[anonymous]

Oh dear...you are in for a huge culture shock. Amgen will not allow Horizon to shift "their culture". The Horizon reps will be forced to mind their manners here and shift over to the Amgen culture. You are delusional if you think the whale of a Company that Amgen is will change their culture to mimic HOrizon's current culture. That's not happening.

You may keep your salary, but you will not get the bonuses . You will be disliked by every current INBU rep as some have been here 15 years and are making $30 K less than you do.

You will be on call after call. You will have weekly or biweekly district calls, and you'll do their quarterly validation taking Dr.'s out and putting Dr's in and then Amgen will wipe all the work you did and you will have calls you have to make on Dr.'s that moved to other states or retired or died. And YOU, my dear will be responsible for their sales goals. You'l probably have PCP targets too. Welcome to Amgen!!!

Do you think any Horizon rep making 30-50k more than the current Amgen reps will give a shit if they are liked? We know who is king. And its not any rep still working at Amgen. Some Horizon reps will stick around because the culture is much easier and they are set for life with all the RSU they just cashed in. Most will stick around until they find the next Horizon or Celgene.

And as far as PCP calls- I don't think any of us will be assigned to a different product. We will continue with our products in rare disease states. You'll continue to call on PCP as our referral reps.

 

[anonymous]

Do you think any Horizon rep making 30-50k more than the current Amgen reps will give a shit if they are liked? We know who is king. And its not any rep still working at Amgen. Some Horizon reps will stick around because the culture is much easier and they are set for life with all the RSU they just cashed in. Most will stick around until they find the next Horizon or Celgene.

And as far as PCP calls- I don't think any of us will be assigned to a different product. We will continue with our products in rare disease states. You'll continue to call on PCP as our referral reps.

No, they won’t give our products to their reps, but they will not be keeping all of us. You can’t save $500 mil in 3 years doing so.

 

[anonymous]

Oh dear...you are in for a huge culture shock. Amgen will not allow Horizon to shift "their culture". The Horizon reps will be forced to mind their manners here and shift over to the Amgen culture. You are delusional if you think the whale of a Company that Amgen is will change their culture to mimic HOrizon's current culture. That's not happening.

You may keep your salary, but you will not get the bonuses . You will be disliked by every current INBU rep as some have been here 15 years and are making $30 K less than you do.

You will be on call after call. You will have weekly or biweekly district calls, and you'll do their quarterly validation taking Dr.'s out and putting Dr's in and then Amgen will wipe all the work you did and you will have calls you have to make on Dr.'s that moved to other states or retired or died. And YOU, my dear will be responsible for their sales goals. You'l probably have PCP targets too. Welcome to Amgen!!!

Best post on this thread. This person is spot on. Validation is a joke. It changes each quarter, and they fill our box with worthless prescribers or prescribers who have moved to other states, and we get to take their goals.

And, you also are correct in stating that Amgen will never "adopt" Horizon's culture. They will conform to Amgen.

Most will leave in a year as they won't be able to take the nonsense and madness. Clownville USA is AMGEN.

 

[anonymous]

Do you think any Horizon rep making 30-50k more than the current Amgen reps will give a shit if they are liked? We know who is king. And its not any rep still working at Amgen. Some Horizon reps will stick around because the culture is much easier and they are set for life with all the RSU they just cashed in. Most will stick around until they find the next Horizon or Celgene.

And as far as PCP calls- I don't think any of us will be assigned to a different product. We will continue with our products in rare disease states. You'll continue to call on PCP as our referral reps.

You are mistaken. They will put calls on PCP's and expect you to "develop" these PCP's into writing drugs for rare disease. Just wait...it's coming...

 

[anonymous]

Princess every product has its challenges...otezla definitely wasn't a hard sell versus other products. Especially krystexxa. I was a TLL in the southeast and I can assure you "the people that mattered" ie thought leaders in rhuematology didn't think much about your reps.

And here you go ladies and gentleman... the typical scummy Horizon rep that thinks their sh** doesn't stink. Listen Horizon "Prince", yoru company has some really great sales reps, some of which are dirty and just plain mean. You'll all be eating each other for lunch within a couple of years and no decent souls will be left there. I know people that did (do) very well at Horizon and they were also driving their mental status into the ground. It's a shame.

 

[anonymous]

And here you go ladies and gentleman... the typical scummy Horizon rep that thinks their sh** doesn't stink. Listen Horizon "Prince", yoru company has some really great sales reps, some of which are dirty and just plain mean. You'll all be eating each other for lunch within a couple of years and no decent souls will be left there. I know people that did (do) very well at Horizon and they were also driving their mental status into the ground. It's a shame.

Exactly. Arrogance here Horizon reps will get you nowhere. No, we are not adopting "your culture". You will be "adopting" our culture. And you'll call on whomever they decide to have you call on....PCP's will be in your target base if not at first but down the road. That's the Amgen way. As you are so stellar at your job, they will think you can convert some PCP in timbucktoo to using a drug for rare disease. And you will participate on all conference calls, validation calls, web exes and now you will get a car and you will have a tracker on it.

If they want to get rid of you all they do is follow the places you've been. Your freedom is gone. Welcome to the madness at Amgen and get your head out of your arse and follow our rules. We aren't following yours. Arrogance and narcissism will get you nowhere here. You will be another puppet for the puppet master to manipulate. Your freedom and autonomy is gone. You will not get to drive your own car, you'll get a car with a tracker so they know where you are at all times.. LOL

 

[anonymous]

Exactly. Arrogance here Horizon reps will get you nowhere. No, we are not adopting "your culture". You will be "adopting" our culture. And you'll call on whomever they decide to have you call on....PCP's will be in your target base if not at first but down the road. That's the Amgen way. As you are so stellar at your job, they will think you can convert some PCP in timbucktoo to using a drug for rare disease. And you will participate on all conference calls, validation calls, web exes and now you will get a car and you will have a tracker on it.

If they want to get rid of you all they do is follow the places you've been. Your freedom is gone. Welcome to the madness at Amgen and get your head out of your arse and follow our rules. We aren't following yours. Arrogance and narcissism will get you nowhere here. You will be another puppet for the puppet master to manipulate. Your freedom and autonomy is gone. You will not get to drive your own car, you'll get a car with a tracker so they know where you are at all times.. LOL

 

[anonymous]

And here you go ladies and gentleman... the typical scummy Horizon rep that thinks their sh** doesn't stink. Listen Horizon "Prince", yoru company has some really great sales reps, some of which are dirty and just plain mean. You'll all be eating each other for lunch within a couple of years and no decent souls will be left there. I know people that did (do) very well at Horizon and they were also driving their mental status into the ground. It's a shame.

What is "dirty" and just plain "mean"- give an example.

 

[anonymous]

Exactly. Arrogance here Horizon reps will get you nowhere. No, we are not adopting "your culture". You will be "adopting" our culture. And you'll call on whomever they decide to have you call on....PCP's will be in your target base if not at first but down the road. That's the Amgen way. As you are so stellar at your job, they will think you can convert some PCP in timbucktoo to using a drug for rare disease. And you will participate on all conference calls, validation calls, web exes and now you will get a car and you will have a tracker on it.

If they want to get rid of you all they do is follow the places you've been. Your freedom is gone. Welcome to the madness at Amgen and get your head out of your arse and follow our rules. We aren't following yours. Arrogance and narcissism will get you nowhere here. You will be another puppet for the puppet master to manipulate. Your freedom and autonomy is gone. You will not get to drive your own car, you'll get a car with a tracker so they know where you are at all times.. LOL

Its not arrogance but more your ignorance about how rare disease works. RA isn't rare disease. Our products for the most part are all rare disease. Its because of this we likely won't be "rolled into" Amgen. Even our Rheumatology reps. The Chemocentryx reps are rolled in at another level above your Enbrel reps and Horizon will be too.

 

[anonymous]

Its not arrogance but more your ignorance about how rare disease works. RA isn't rare disease. Our products for the most part are all rare disease. It’s because of this we likely won't be "rolled into" Amgen. Even our Rheumatology reps. The Chemocentryx reps are rolled in at another level above your Enbrel reps and Horizon will be too.

Wishful thinking. You have until Q423 to find a new company before we roll you into Amgen.