Zimmer's New Knee System...Persona

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Anonymous said:
SPIN SPIN SPIN You must be a Marketing Manager. This is a bad, bad start for a company that is in a freefall...
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SPIN?? it's clear that nobody likes a winner. It's chumps like you that spend more time on these boards criticizing and bashing other companies because you're pissed that you suck as a salesman have old shitty products and losing market share.

I heard AMWAY is hiring, maybe you need a change of scenery or something less advanced.
 



Saw the Persona implants at the office yesterday for the first time. I sell 400 NexGens a year using mostly the original Miller Galante anterior reference instruments to a dozen surgeons.
1) Yeah, I can kinda see where you could perforate the tibial cortex with the broach, the Persona has the same keel as the NexGen and you would want to place it a little more medial because the fit is so good (like the Natural Knee...which I sell a 100 of those). The difference between the NK and the Persona is the "wings" on the keel. The NK doesn't have them and that is why perforation has never been an issue.
2) The double dove tail locking mech and the Morse taper augment locking mechanism are really nice on the Persona along with the polished anterior surface like the S&N Reflection cups.
3) Now that I gave all the Stryker reps ammo to sell against the Persona, don't get too excited because Zimmer will redesign the keel (just take the stupid wings off and put the four spikes on like the NK.... engineers!)
 



Anonymous said:
Saw the Persona implants at the office yesterday for the first time. I sell 400 NexGens a year using mostly the original Miller Galante anterior reference instruments to a dozen surgeons.
1) Yeah, I can kinda see where you could perforate the tibial cortex with the broach, the Persona has the same keel as the NexGen and you would want to place it a little more medial because the fit is so good (like the Natural Knee...which I sell a 100 of those). The difference between the NK and the Persona is the "wings" on the keel. The NK doesn't have them and that is why perforation has never been an issue.
2) The double dove tail locking mech and the Morse taper augment locking mechanism are really nice on the Persona along with the polished anterior surface like the S&N Reflection cups.
3) Now that I gave all the Stryker reps ammo to sell against the Persona, don't get too excited because Zimmer will redesign the keel (just take the stupid wings off and put the four spikes on like the NK.... engineers!)
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I wish more posts were like this. No complaining. No name-calling. No bitterness toward the situation they chose to be a part of.... Just an honest contribution to the thread. This person sells 400 joints a year. I'm not surprised.
 



Actually I sell 750 Zimmer joints a year along with a lot of other Zimmer stuff. Thanks for the compliment previous thread! Zimmer is like a marriage...you have a lot of good years and a couple of really crappy ones. The "leaders" come and go and your real bosses are your customers (surgeons, nurses, techs. mat. mgmt.) not the "leaders". I really value my customers. I have said this for a long time: my biggest, most ruthless, evil competitor is not Stryker, DePuy, Biomet, S&N, etc., but my own management. I get along well with all of the "competitive" company reps and I NEVER talk trash about their products because I may be wearing their company logo next week. Your loyal customers are your insurance against your own company. If the surgeons relinquish their buying power then the party is over for all of us. That may well happen one day
After I got burned in my early days with Zimmer, I now wait for the low informed, naive reps in my distributorship to go out and sell everything that the "leaders" tell us to sell. The "leaders" at Zimmer are like those goofy male "rah rah" cheerleaders at a college pep rally that urge the useful idiots to toe the company line. The truth is that the Zimmer leadership is like Germany in 1945 sending the gullible Hitler Zimmer Youth over mine fields and machine guns clearing a path for old soldiers like me. Happy Holidays and Good Selling in 2013!!
 



Anonymous said:
Actually I sell 750 Zimmer joints a year along with a lot of other Zimmer stuff. Thanks for the compliment previous thread! Zimmer is like a marriage...you have a lot of good years and a couple of really crappy ones. The "leaders" come and go and your real bosses are your customers (surgeons, nurses, techs. mat. mgmt.) not the "leaders". I really value my customers. I have said this for a long time: my biggest, most ruthless, evil competitor is not Stryker, DePuy, Biomet, S&N, etc., but my own management. I get along well with all of the "competitive" company reps and I NEVER talk trash about their products because I may be wearing their company logo next week. Your loyal customers are your insurance against your own company. If the surgeons relinquish their buying power then the party is over for all of us. That may well happen one day
After I got burned in my early days with Zimmer, I now wait for the low informed, naive reps in my distributorship to go out and sell everything that the "leaders" tell us to sell. The "leaders" at Zimmer are like those goofy male "rah rah" cheerleaders at a college pep rally that urge the useful idiots to toe the company line. The truth is that the Zimmer leadership is like Germany in 1945 sending the gullible Hitler Zimmer Youth over mine fields and machine guns clearing a path for old soldiers like me. Happy Holidays and Good Selling in 2013!!
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Hitler references aside, this is a pretty good post. To simplify....senior management at Zimmer is horrible, industry worst by a mile. If you can fly below the radar and stay away from these chimps in Warsaw you may actually carve out a decent sales career.
 



As I understand the tibia issue, the tibia is anatomic (i.e. lefts and rights) and has a bit of asymmetry in its shape (viewed from above). The keel is medialized, with the larger sizes have more medial offset. On NexGen you'd have to medialize the component, while rotating it, these fit line to line with the outer profile of the tibia. The advantage is that it sets tibial rotation much more accurately than the competitive systems, but at the cost of more inventory (due to asymmetry in plates, poly etc). Tibia rotation is a major reason for knee pain on patients and why 50% of knee implants that are revised, were put in 2 or less years prior. The keel perforation issue only happened to a very few developers, and could have been alleviated by downsizing. It has since been corrected by moving the keel over a touch.

To the person who make the comment on the 2 peg TM tibia. Just wait til you see what's next...

And finally, yes, Zimmer's senior management is truly awful.
 



Anonymous said:
gosh, another new knee from zimmer. what's wrong with the other 34 knees zimmer makes. zimmer has a winner with this one for sure (wink, wink)
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with the other ( 2 ) Zimmer knee brands; haha unlike some other med device knee makers Zimmer backs it's designs up with proven actual lab and clinical results that can be verified. You know some of those other knee makers that try to convince the consumer that their knee is O round - seriously? Or maybe another knee maker that marketed their lab results thru kinematic load testing with a range no more than shuffling the feet. Again seriously? Zimmer does have a winner with the new knee they have simply taken the best of the last 25 years and blended it into 1 delivery! Good luck with that competitive pace there chief!!
 






The advantages of the new zimmer knee are that it marries the sales force, historically separated between the natural camp and the Nexgen camp. It also offers a CR knee compatible with a UC insert, a ps knee with an available PS+ poly insert and vitamin E poly. The anatomical shape of the tibia has some real clinical advantages. The complexity of the system is hidden in the kitting of the system for each case. The two mm spacing on the femurs is not worth much but the 1 mm poly thickness is nice, as is the modularized trialing provisionals. Overall it'll be a mild success.
 






Anonymous said:
No smoke and mirrors here. I was able to see the system in a private showing at AAOS and it truly will be a "game changer". The knee implant itself combines all of the design features that make the NexGen the #1 selling knee and least revised per registry results, FACT!!!! But the instruments are and will be the most intuitive in the industry bar none with only 3 trays needed!!!

I was in the conference room when 2 competitive, world renowned and industry respected surgeons were just leaving. Apparently discussing the possibility of being a part of the evaluation panel...........lookout Biomet,Depuy. Wink, wink, you may be losing some of your consultants!!!

So rather than a 27% market share in knees Zimmer will probably be in the 35% by 2015, sucks for you guys!!!!!
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There are no "game changers" it's all relationships. DePuy is launching a new knee they call a "game changer" it's nice but it doesnt move market share. If it did we would all be out of a job. All of these new knees will offer theoretical improvements and hopefully lead to happier patients but no one product is changing any game.....aint happening. Sorry.
 



Anonymous said:
No smoke and mirrors here. I was able to see the system in a private showing at AAOS and it truly will be a "game changer". The knee implant itself combines all of the design features that make the NexGen the #1 selling knee and least revised per registry results, FACT!!!! But the instruments are and will be the most intuitive in the industry bar none with only 3 trays needed!!!

I was in the conference room when 2 competitive, world renowned and industry respected surgeons were just leaving. Apparently discussing the possibility of being a part of the evaluation panel...........lookout Biomet,Depuy. Wink, wink, you may be losing some of your consultants!!!

So rather than a 27% market share in knees Zimmer will probably be in the 35% by 2015, sucks for you guys!!!!!
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I'm curious to know from this poster why the drop of a 33% market share in 2005/2006 to the 27% he claims recently? How in the world do you think Zimmer is going to jump up to 35% without the ability to entice "consulting surgeons." I've presented to many competitive surgeons and switching them isn't easy.
 



No one is switching any real volume of implants any longer. If you put them in correctly, they all work very well. Marketing will always be marketing. Are all of the surgeons using other knees getting poor results and are their patients all unhappy? They are all good. That is why price is eroding everywhere. No REAL clinical differences. We have to go back to buying business with clinical studies. We need 100 new consultants to help our share. Does anyone know of competitors who took business by converting some as a consultant. I bet that is where the local share shifts are coming from.
 



Anonymous said:
No one is switching any real volume of implants any longer.
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False

Anonymous said:
If you put them in correctly, they all work very well.
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True

Anonymous said:
Marketing will always be marketing.
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How insightful...

Anonymous said:
Are all of the surgeons using other knees getting poor results and are their patients all unhappy? They are all good. That is why price is eroding everywhere.
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Of all the reasons price is eroding, equivalent clinical outcomes is pretty far down on the list.

Anonymous said:
No REAL clinical differences.
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Survivorship? Patient Satisfaction? Registries disagree.

Anonymous said:
We have to go back to buying business with clinical studies.
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Won't happen.

Anonymous said:
We need 100 new consultants to help our share.
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Sure it would help. It won't happen.

Anonymous said:
Does anyone know of competitors who took business by converting some as a consultant. I bet that is where the local share shifts are coming from.
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Share shifts are coming from guys in the field grinding it out everyday and moving business. Winning back business with former customers and getting evaluations with new surgeons who recognize that Persona may be better in their hands and for their patients. If you can't move business with this knee you seriously need to find a new job.
 



Anonymous said:
False


True


How insightful...


Of all the reasons price is eroding, equivalent clinical outcomes is pretty far down on the list.


Survivorship? Patient Satisfaction? Registries disagree.


Won't happen.


Sure it would help. It won't happen.


Share shifts are coming from guys in the field grinding it out everyday and moving business. Winning back business with former customers and getting evaluations with new surgeons who recognize that Persona may be better in their hands and for their patients. If you can't move business with this knee you seriously need to find a new job.
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I think I know who wrote all of the above and he is a big player with Zimmer. His email responses to us internally sound just like this and GOOD FOR HIM watching all of the degenerate, sophomoric, inane posts from the biggest bunch of underserving cry babies in the US. However, big guy...how do you know that stuff came from a Zimmer rep?
 


















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