Why isn't Biotronik doing better?

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What you see is different than what I see or what anyone else may see. I see a doctor with a track record and coincidental removal of hardware and a company with a nefarious reputation.

I might not be the only one who sees that.

If it quacks like a duck.......
 
Anonymous said:
LIAR! You must work for one of the Big3 because none of your business practices match what BIO has built their reputation on. You must be known as the "Boy Scout" within BIO. Not believable however.
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Listen! This description posted is the every day Biotronik Sales Rep. I have been @ this company for 12 years and prior to that I was in a EP Lab. I do not do sales but are very involved with my reps and if I thought for one minute they were doing any of your accusations I would blow the whistle in a heart beat!
 
Anonymous said:
I see nothing remarkable here. What I do see is one side of a lawsuit. Anyone who has been sued knows that lawyers take the facts, add innuendo, and make inferences to create a compelling story to reap the greatest financial reward for their clients.
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OK . Thanks for your two cents, Mr. Defense Attorney.
There is a lot of patient input on this case, if you have not noticed.

Let us see how this plays out in a New Mexico Court of Law very soon.
 
Anonymous said:
What happened to the Mike I thread. Another thread erased by Biotronik. Nice nazi move Jake.
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Instead of calling Jake a nazi, why not take a look at CafePharma's policy on deleting posts:

We have clearly outlined our board posting policies on our Board Posting Policy forum. Our moderators base their decisions on these policies. The major reason why posts are deleted is that they personally attack an identified individual. It does not have to be by full name - initials and/or geographic location can identify someone as well. Even if the original post in a thread did not contain this type of information, if the rest of the thread degenerates into these types of attacks, the thread can be deleted.

So,to end the conspiracy theories, that thread was most likely deleted by the CafePharma administrators because the thread, "personally attacked an identified individual."

I don't like Jake, but, I'm also not a conspiracy theorist.
 
1) It really comes down to coverage in my opinion. Biotronik is a small company and is inundated with independent reps that have carved out huge territories and because of long term contracts with Bio aren't giving up any ground. Example: You may have a rep principal that has a 3 state territory contract and can only put a minimal amount of personnel on the ground at a giving time. An Independent principal can't employ a bunch of people just to bring in 3 devices a month to start, so they only put one rep in a town until they grow enough to be self supporting then the principal can support a new rep in another town. The biggest flaw in Biotronik is this business model IMHO. Pressure from Bio and price cuts are moving them away from this model. So watch out!!!! The big 3 have spoiled the doctors and made them think that if you don't have 8 people in a city of 250k people your not going to be able to cover their practice. Bullshit...!!!!. The patient to rep ratio is smaller at Bio for now. This is the old Medtronic way of doing business. That model won't work with the present and future pricing cuts to CRM. Just not economical anymore. Hence all the RIFFs. SO.... problem solved in near future.

2) Bio doesn't have the money to pay lobbyist to push the FDA to bring products first to market. ALso Biotronik makes sure the product will work long term before even attempting to do so. Remember these products go in people/ patients and one day we all will be one of those patients. I have read on here all the post saying Bio is a "me too company". Again Bullshit!!! 44 yrs ago we were second to market a ppm, true, but then first to develop the dual chamber ppm. CLS algorithm, only one proved to work for emotional stress, and vaso vagal syncope. Try getting your accelerometer to do that. Oh yeah and they have those in there too. Look OUS and you will see that Bio is the only company marked for European CE for a MRI ICD's, also they have a full line of pacemakers that are MRI compatible (Brand new ppm technology not ppm's from the 90's " Medtronic revo"). They had the first home monitoring system and the FIRST and ONLY free cellular home monitoring system requiring no patient interaction, just plug and play. No calling in, no wands, and no bs. There are a whole list of other FIRST that I can mention.... IE a complete line of vascular products including the only drug coated biodegradable stent that works, a complete line of EP cath's Etc............. They just can't afford to pay to bring these to market first. They wouldn't be able to survive a product recall. Unlike the other big 3 who look at it as "just the price of doing business".

3) And this has nothing to do with why Biotronik isn't doing better, although I would have to ask the original poster who proposed this question,.... Better than what? Better than what they were 5 yrs ago? Better than the other 3? If that is the question than the answer is they are doing better. They were the only company to have double digit growth in both brady and Tachy in 2010. And they have been out pacing the other big three for the past 3 years in both. I don't think it is a measurable of how big you are, I think the key question is how much debt you have and how much market share you are gaining!!!

4) Again not anything to do with the "Why isn't Biotronik doing better?" but just a small response to the allegations of "Bio buys business". How can a company of our size and our profit margin "Buy Business?" If you consider how many studies St Jude have open and how many doctors they and Medtronic have on there speaking roster I am sure it will dwarf what few doctors Bio has and the amount of money they spend. You only need to look at who have paid out settlements to the federal government in the past, hell, YEAR and I don't believe you will find that Biotronik is on that list. I can't say that about the big 3 and neither can you. "Buying business" is the only explanation you have to convince yourself of why they are taking so much of your business. "They have to be paying the doctors because that's what I had to do to get the doctors to use me in the beginning" thats the only rationalization you can come to. Well it's wrong. Doctors are just tired of opening their mail EVERY MONTH and seeing yet ANOTHER

Dear Doctor,

We regretfully inform you that another product you put in your patients from our company is not working like we promised you it would. Please inconvenience yourself and your patient so that they can come in for uncalled for follow ups and oh yeah if they happen to have an ICD or one of our ICD leads it may not work when needed and you may be sued.

Sorry once AGAIN

Talk to you next month,

The BIG 3

This shouldn't be the norm, but unfortunately it is becoming that way. I see them littered around the doctors office's. Patients deserve better than that. They put their trust in their doctors and their doctors put their trust in you and your company. Doctors can only take the distrust and lies for so long then they will start to look for a viable alternative. And you better hope that the first reason I gave is true for you in your area because if a Biotronik rep does come to your town or you happen to have one there already, then you won't have to ask "Why isn't Biotronik doing better?"
 
Anonymous said:
1) It really comes down to coverage in my opinion. Biotronik is a small company and is inundated with independent reps that have carved out huge territories and because of long term contracts with Bio aren't giving up any ground. Example: You may have a rep principal that has a 3 state territory contract and can only put a minimal amount of personnel on the ground at a giving time. An Independent principal can't employ a bunch of people just to bring in 3 devices a month to start, so they only put one rep in a town until they grow enough to be self supporting then the principal can support a new rep in another town. The biggest flaw in Biotronik is this business model IMHO. Pressure from Bio and price cuts are moving them away from this model. So watch out!!!! The big 3 have spoiled the doctors and made them think that if you don't have 8 people in a city of 250k people your not going to be able to cover their practice. Bullshit...!!!!. The patient to rep ratio is smaller at Bio for now. This is the old Medtronic way of doing business. That model won't work with the present and future pricing cuts to CRM. Just not economical anymore. Hence all the RIFFs. SO.... problem solved in near future.

2) Bio doesn't have the money to pay lobbyist to push the FDA to bring products first to market. ALso Biotronik makes sure the product will work long term before even attempting to do so. Remember these products go in people/ patients and one day we all will be one of those patients. I have read on here all the post saying Bio is a "me too company". Again Bullshit!!! 44 yrs ago we were second to market a ppm, true, but then first to develop the dual chamber ppm. CLS algorithm, only one proved to work for emotional stress, and vaso vagal syncope. Try getting your accelerometer to do that. Oh yeah and they have those in there too. Look OUS and you will see that Bio is the only company marked for European CE for a MRI ICD's, also they have a full line of pacemakers that are MRI compatible (Brand new ppm technology not ppm's from the 90's " Medtronic revo"). They had the first home monitoring system and the FIRST and ONLY free cellular home monitoring system requiring no patient interaction, just plug and play. No calling in, no wands, and no bs. There are a whole list of other FIRST that I can mention.... IE a complete line of vascular products including the only drug coated biodegradable stent that works, a complete line of EP cath's Etc............. They just can't afford to pay to bring these to market first. They wouldn't be able to survive a product recall. Unlike the other big 3 who look at it as "just the price of doing business".

3) And this has nothing to do with why Biotronik isn't doing better, although I would have to ask the original poster who proposed this question,.... Better than what? Better than what they were 5 yrs ago? Better than the other 3? If that is the question than the answer is they are doing better. They were the only company to have double digit growth in both brady and Tachy in 2010. And they have been out pacing the other big three for the past 3 years in both. I don't think it is a measurable of how big you are, I think the key question is how much debt you have and how much market share you are gaining!!!

4) Again not anything to do with the "Why isn't Biotronik doing better?" but just a small response to the allegations of "Bio buys business". How can a company of our size and our profit margin "Buy Business?" If you consider how many studies St Jude have open and how many doctors they and Medtronic have on there speaking roster I am sure it will dwarf what few doctors Bio has and the amount of money they spend. You only need to look at who have paid out settlements to the federal government in the past, hell, YEAR and I don't believe you will find that Biotronik is on that list. I can't say that about the big 3 and neither can you. "Buying business" is the only explanation you have to convince yourself of why they are taking so much of your business. "They have to be paying the doctors because that's what I had to do to get the doctors to use me in the beginning" thats the only rationalization you can come to. Well it's wrong. Doctors are just tired of opening their mail EVERY MONTH and seeing yet ANOTHER

Dear Doctor,

We regretfully inform you that another product you put in your patients from our company is not working like we promised you it would. Please inconvenience yourself and your patient so that they can come in for uncalled for follow ups and oh yeah if they happen to have an ICD or one of our ICD leads it may not work when needed and you may be sued.

Sorry once AGAIN

Talk to you next month,

The BIG 3

This shouldn't be the norm, but unfortunately it is becoming that way. I see them littered around the doctors office's. Patients deserve better than that. They put their trust in their doctors and their doctors put their trust in you and your company. Doctors can only take the distrust and lies for so long then they will start to look for a viable alternative. And you better hope that the first reason I gave is true for you in your area because if a Biotronik rep does come to your town or you happen to have one there already, then you won't have to ask "Why isn't Biotronik doing better?"
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I am the original poster who started this thread. I asked the question to try to inject some excitement into the Biotronik CP site. I am looking for Biotronik people to stand up and make their case for the company as it exists today.

You do a great job in making your case for Biotronik. It would be great to hear from more Biotronik reps rather than so many of the the miserable trolls that pollute CP.
 
Thanks as I am very passionate about Biotronik. I wake up every morning just like the others from the big 3 and drink a full glass of the Koolaid. The only difference I find is that my Koolaid is fresh, and tested for bugs and defects. I don't have to worry about getting sick from drinking it or worry about serving it to my doctors or his patients. I sleep well at night knowing this. It should be hard for some others to do the same, knowing they are selling faulty leads right now to patients and doctors just to make a profit.
 
To answer the original question;
Poor coverage, average products, dull management and stale reps.

Pick any 2 from 4 for the 'big' 3 for Biotronik it's all 4. Sorry folks you know it.!
 
1) The coverage issue is 90% false. Are there areas where Bio has limited coverage, Yes. Are there areas where 'The Big 3' have coverage issues, Yes. Let's be honest, it is a numbers game and I am willing to bet that Bio has a higher rep to patient ratio then the Big 3 do. Does having more people in a territory mean 'coverage' is better? No. I can recall several times where one of the Big 3 have lost cases because they screwed their schedules up and didn't show up to implants or couldn't make it to an ER to do a check for hours, etc. All companies face these hiccups AND the coverage numbers are only getting smaller with the Big 3.

2) There just might be something to this. Bio has a pile of products that the FDA has been dancing around with for quite some time. Being last to the market kills Bio. The number of tools or features that Bio is last to the market with such as wireless telemetry, CRT, a 'real' CS delivery system, 4f LV lead, quad pole LV leads, DF-4 just kills them. By the time Bio releases them the excitement has worn off and you get a "OK, you got that too. Thanks for stopping by" response from the doc instead of the, "Wow, that is cool. I've got some cases that I can line up for you. Be sure you have that with you."

On a sidebar... Isn't it interesting how the CRM industry just recently paid some insane amount of money to the FDA in fees? Oh, but leaving a pen behind is an 'enticement'? What a joke.

5 years behind industry for wireless telemetry, REAL CRT products and delivery systems, DF-4, quad pole LV leads, 4Fr LV leads..... is WAY too long. We all hear AND we get the marketing talk BUT it is just too long.

3) In many areas the Big 3's share can only go down. So, when you consider the movement of reps from the Big 3 to Bio, the fact that Bio hasn't and isn't going anywhere, the fact that their products do stand up for themselves and for the most part they have solid people trying to do a good job and all of the recall stuff... Docs are getting unnerved by the stream of recalls and they are starting to listen and pay attention and even give Bio a chance. It might not be huge shifts but it is occuring.

4) Buying business..... need to find another issue to beat Bio up over. EVERY CRM company does it in their own little creative ways. So be careful with those stones, you might shatter your own windows.
 
Anonymous said:
I can control my ethics. You cannot control what happens to Fidelis, Teligen or Durata.
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It takes a long time for a doctor to trust you with that in the background. Not impossible, just difficult. It is a significant reason that they are viewed as shady. This thread is about why BINC isn't doing better, one answer is reputation. You went on for parAgraphs with other reasons. Anything more is beating a dead horse.
 
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