Why Do You Guys Complain So Much?

[Anonymous]

So I have been lurking this forum for awhile now, just reviewing the industry as a whole as I'm from another industry (Finance). For the life of me, I can't fathom how in the world do you guys complain so much?

Let's see, the typical rant on here is about how a guy has been working in the Pharma related industry for about 15-20 years, making over six figures a year, with good health benefits, 401k contribution, a company car, expense reports, and free occasional dinners with Management to discuss results. Then the guy would continue on about how the job is extremely easy, not challenging, how he just gets samples all day and delivers food to clients.

If everything being described here is true and accurate, then this person is in the top 3% of individual income earners in the country when you put all of the compensation, benefits and perks on the table.

But for the LIFE of me, all the guy does is rant about:

- His Manager micromanages him
- His Manager is mean to him
- He gets downsized (even though he picks up another job almost immediately in Pharma)
- His Manager makes him do reports on daily activities
- His Manager makes him sit in on calls
- The Pharma industry is ripping off their customers

I mean what in the world is this? I come from the Commercial Finance industry where most of us are paid on 100% commission, no salary, no benefits, no company car, no expense reports, nothing! And you know what? We go through every thing you guys listed and more! But on top of going through more, most of us do not make the total amount of compensation, perks and benefits you guys make considering that you claim you only put in little effort on the job. For us to make what you guys are making, we have to be literally killing it in the field!

Can someone please explain to me what is going on here? Because every thread it's the same thing and it makes absolutely no sense to me. I've been trying to give the "benefit of the doubt" but I just can't. Are these posts made up? Are these people just exaggerating? Or what in the hell is going on here?

Then to top it off, the guy says despite 15-20 years of making over 6 figures in Pharma, now that he's almost 50 and out of Pharma, he's dead broke! How in the hell do you make about $1.5 million - $2 million over 15-20 years (6 figures at least per year) and now you are deadbroke? Did you have a wife that took all of your money? Or maybe a stay-at-home wife with 3 kids that drained all of your money? Or maybe you took 15 trips to Vegas every year?

I mean, us other Sales Professionals in other industries would DIE to bring home the compensation, perks and benefits you guys do, and all you do is complain on here. Am I missing something??

 

[Anonymous]

Complaining is an American sport. I learned it at a very young age. It beats being a brown noser by a country mile. Try it. You might like it.

 

[Anonymous]

Complaining is an American sport. I learned it at a very young age. It beats being a brown noser by a country mile. Try it. You might like it.

Again, this makes NO sense. You are working FOR someone else, you are not the Employer but the Employee, as a result why wouldn't you expect to be micromanaged to some extent, talked down to to some extent, and in some cases get your feelings hurt?

This happens at just about EVERY single job out there, those Employees go home with their feelings hurt, self esteem hurt, etc., but guess what? Despite all of that stress, they aren't even making enough to feed themselves or their families.

I'm trying to get a real answer as to what you guys are complaining about so much. You can't possibly be telling me you are ticked off because someone hurt your feelings? I mean like I said I'm in Commercial Finance, B2B Sales, been so for over 8 years. I get cussed out, yelled at, sweared at, talked down to, doors SLAMMED in my face, telephone SLAMMED down in my face...on a daily basis and I don't have anywhere NEAR the perks you guys have with your position.

 

[Anonymous]

Complaints are the squeak in the wheel. It tells you that oil is needed. If it didn't squeak sooner or later the metal to metal friction would heat up to such an extent that the wheel would break apart requiring a huge repair. So employee complaints should be encouraged. If I owned a company I would have a complaint box in the lunchroom. And I would give each complaint it's due attention. And I would address all reasonable complaints in public at the next company meeting. I would not address individual salary complaints. That would be dealt with one on one at each annual review. At that time, if you did not like your salary and thought you were worth more - then I would encourage you to find that salary elsewhere. But general company operations and working conditions would all be fair game. It takes people to run a company. And I would want to make my people happy. A happy workforce is a productive workforce. Complaints are good. As long as they are reasonable and not disruptive or petty or used to incite mutiny on the job. Those who engaged in such practices would not be working at my company for very long. In general, you should view complaints as your friend, not your enemy. Does that help?

 

[Anonymous]

Again, this makes NO sense. You are working FOR someone else, you are not the Employer but the Employee, as a result why wouldn't you expect to be micromanaged to some extent, talked down to to some extent, and in some cases get your feelings hurt?

This happens at just about EVERY single job out there, those Employees go home with their feelings hurt, self esteem hurt, etc., but guess what? Despite all of that stress, they aren't even making enough to feed themselves or their families.

I'm trying to get a real answer as to what you guys are complaining about so much. You can't possibly be telling me you are ticked off because someone hurt your feelings? I mean like I said I'm in Commercial Finance, B2B Sales, been so for over 8 years. I get cussed out, yelled at, sweared at, talked down to, doors SLAMMED in my face, telephone SLAMMED down in my face...on a daily basis and I don't have anywhere NEAR the perks you guys have with your position.

I am ex pharma.

It is obvious you don't understand pharma.

Pharma: This is High School drama played out by adults on the stage of life. Everyone in the industry knows this job is BS and everyone keeps up the charade. The management can harass with impunity.

And all the way, nearly everyone in the industry is a narcissist. They are entitled. They don't have thick skins. They are the types that take selfies. They are the guys with big watches and the broads with bad high heels and expensive bras.

This industry values beauty, submission and youth. And so do the employees.

And they provide little value.

All the while they know their jobs are vulnerable for layoffs. So the paranoia and self doubt creeps in because they can't make this sort of money anywhere else that actually requires talent and results.

And the sycophants suck up because they think it will save them. And the talented ones move out of the industry. And the ignorant are convinced they will never get laid off. And the young ones don't even know what is going on.

Imagine a job where you are forced to act on a stage every day. Most jobs are not like this.

It's a play without a the song "Let's all go to the lobby..."

 

[Anonymous]

This is the OP, listen, I understand your complaints...I get it. You have issues with Staff and Management, they are childish or they yell at you, or they make you do silly ride-alongs, or they make you listen to silly meetings, or they make you read off silly scripts, or they micro-manage you. I GET IT.

I'm not saying that you don't have issues, my question is when you list out all of the compensation, perks, benefits and stability (most of you guys say you been doing this for 15-20 years) why do you guys keep saying that other JOBS are so much better than this? Why do you keep saying the grass is greener on the other side?

The vast majority of Jobs have the same issues with Management and Staff. Every Job I have had, I have had those same problems even when I was an employee at Subway in my late Teens/early 20's making just above minimum wage.

The vast majority of Jobs have the same type of lack of Job Security, in this new Economy you are lucky to be working with one company in one location for 5 years, before you might have to move clean across the country for another gig.

But while having the SAME type of issues you listed, other jobs don't have anywhere near the level of compensation and perks you guys are receiving. You are in the top 3% of Individual Income earners in the country if you are making 6 figures with full benefits.

I have never worked in Pharma nor Medical Sales directly, even though I have sold other Commercial Finance related products into Doctor and Dentist Offices. So I'm only going based on what I've been reading on this board.

I am looking to get into Medical Sales, and I'm looking for a REASONABLE explanation NOT to. I'm wondering if someone can really explain what the complaining is all about other than the listings I have read and even the one you just responded with, because Sir (or Madam) I go through that crap in my current position and a WHOLE lot more!

- I have no salary
- No company car
- No paid insurance
- No benefits
- Extreme competition
- Regulation issues
- Many Reps like me work all month and make less than what a Taco Bell minimum wage employee would make PART TIME

You want to talk about somebody yelling at you? We make about 200 - 250 calls a day and about 75-100 of those calls is somebody yelling, cursing, screaming and threatening to do bodily harm to us! And you guys are complaining about a District Manager taking down to you?

I don't get it........what am I missing here??

 

[Anonymous]

Until I worked in pharma I'd never experienced an industry where the best f...ing lunch won the sale. Don't work pharma unless you get a very generous entertainment budget. Otherwise you're totally screwed and won't have a snowball's chance. Yes, it's that superficial. I've had heart to hearts with many office managers. Two deciding factors: (1) quality of the lunch (2) if the office staff thinks you're cute.

 

[Anonymous]

Until I worked in pharma I'd never experienced an industry where the best f...ing lunch won the sale. Don't work pharma unless you get a very generous entertainment budget. Otherwise you're totally screwed and won't have a snowball's chance. Yes, it's that superficial. I've had heart to hearts with many office managers. Two deciding factors: (1) quality of the lunch (2) if the office staff thinks you're cute.

This is the original OP again, urgh, every response to this thread just sounds stupid. I'm sorry, not trying to be an A-Hole here, I know I haven't worked in the Pharma Industry, but I'm asking logical and rational questions to you guys, all I'm getting are stupid responses that sound like they are coming from teenagers.

Do I have to ask the same questions over and over? With your response Sir (or Madam) if the sale is based on who brings the most expensive lunch from the best restaurant, then why is it that you guys are complaining to much considering that you are making 6 figures to deliver pizza?

You see what I'm saying? I'm starting to wonder if this board is just a Troll board for the Pharma industry or something or if you should take any of this seriously? After all, I haven't found any other Industry Board that allowed it's posters to hide who they are in total. I mean you can also create a Username which gives you a hidden identity, but they allow you to just post under "Anonymous" and all you get on this board are inconsistent rants that make NO SENSE.

Just trying to figure out what's going on. I kind of want to look into getting into Medical Sales and would love if you guys (if you are real and actually work in the industry) to provide REAL insight on what the complains are all about if you:

- Only work part time

- Only deliver pizza to the office staff

 

[Anonymous]

Until I worked in pharma I'd never experienced an industry where the best f...ing lunch won the sale. Don't work pharma unless you get a very generous entertainment budget. Otherwise you're totally screwed and won't have a snowball's chance. Yes, it's that superficial. I've had heart to hearts with many office managers. Two deciding factors: (1) quality of the lunch (2) if the office staff thinks you're cute.

Strip clubs with a lunch buffet could describe what you are saying if you reread your post.

 

[Drug Dumper]

... I go through that crap in my current position and a WHOLE lot more!

- I have no salary
- No company car
- No paid insurance
- No benefits
- Extreme competition
- Regulation issues
- Many Reps like me work all month and make less than what a Taco Bell minimum wage employee would make PART TIME

I don't get it........what am I missing here??

You must be a collections agent or one of those obnoxious telemarketers. I've done that and I know THAT pain. It's horrible. Only problem with you would be you can't blow some doc off who is upset about a problem, or a nurse who's been up all night with their sick kid. When taking abuse via the telephone, you do SEE the person, they're nothing but a faceless gnome who is upset you've called them.

Granted, the pharma reps have no idea how good they have it with regard to the pay, but YOU don't take the crap home and have to fill out yet another daily report to send to a district manager who has decided to be a real prick because he's/she's decided to get rid of you (probably because their neighbor's kid wants to work in the business).

 

[Anonymous]

OP should stay on cafebanking and not worry about what people do in an industry he knows nothing about.

So I have been lurking this forum for awhile now, just reviewing the industry as a whole as I'm from another industry (Finance). For the life of me, I can't fathom how in the world do you guys complain so much?

Let's see, the typical rant on here is about how a guy has been working in the Pharma related industry for about 15-20 years, making over six figures a year, with good health benefits, 401k contribution, a company car, expense reports, and free occasional dinners with Management to discuss results. Then the guy would continue on about how the job is extremely easy, not challenging, how he just gets samples all day and delivers food to clients.

If everything being described here is true and accurate, then this person is in the top 3% of individual income earners in the country when you put all of the compensation, benefits and perks on the table.

But for the LIFE of me, all the guy does is rant about:

- His Manager micromanages him
- His Manager is mean to him
- He gets downsized (even though he picks up another job almost immediately in Pharma)
- His Manager makes him do reports on daily activities
- His Manager makes him sit in on calls
- The Pharma industry is ripping off their customers

I mean what in the world is this? I come from the Commercial Finance industry where most of us are paid on 100% commission, no salary, no benefits, no company car, no expense reports, nothing! And you know what? We go through every thing you guys listed and more! But on top of going through more, most of us do not make the total amount of compensation, perks and benefits you guys make considering that you claim you only put in little effort on the job. For us to make what you guys are making, we have to be literally killing it in the field!

Can someone please explain to me what is going on here? Because every thread it's the same thing and it makes absolutely no sense to me. I've been trying to give the "benefit of the doubt" but I just can't. Are these posts made up? Are these people just exaggerating? Or what in the hell is going on here?

Then to top it off, the guy says despite 15-20 years of making over 6 figures in Pharma, now that he's almost 50 and out of Pharma, he's dead broke! How in the hell do you make about $1.5 million - $2 million over 15-20 years (6 figures at least per year) and now you are deadbroke? Did you have a wife that took all of your money? Or maybe a stay-at-home wife with 3 kids that drained all of your money? Or maybe you took 15 trips to Vegas every year?

I mean, us other Sales Professionals in other industries would DIE to bring home the compensation, perks and benefits you guys do, and all you do is complain on here. Am I missing something??

 

[Anonymous]

I am ex pharma.

It is obvious you don't understand pharma.

Pharma: This is High School drama played out by adults on the stage of life. Everyone in the industry knows this job is BS and everyone keeps up the charade. The management can harass with impunity.

And all the way, nearly everyone in the industry is a narcissist. They are entitled. They don't have thick skins. They are the types that take selfies. They are the guys with big watches and the broads with bad high heels and expensive bras.

This industry values beauty, submission and youth. And so do the employees.

And they provide little value.

All the while they know their jobs are vulnerable for layoffs. So the paranoia and self doubt creeps in because they can't make this sort of money anywhere else that actually requires talent and results.

And the sycophants suck up because they think it will save them. And the talented ones move out of the industry. And the ignorant are convinced they will never get laid off. And the young ones don't even know what is going on.

Imagine a job where you are forced to act on a stage every day. Most jobs are not like this.

It's a play without a the song "Let's all go to the lobby..."

Great post and 100% accurate...The pharma industry is so bizarre at this point, such a charade, that unless you have experienced it, you really can't understand why people complain so much. Yes, you make good money, but the mental anguish for anybody with even an ounce of self-awareness, can send you to the therapist or send you over the rails very quickly...

For any doubters out there, read the poster's savage indictment of the pharma sales job a second time...this person "gets it."

 

[Anonymous]

You must be a collections agent or one of those obnoxious telemarketers. I've done that and I know THAT pain. It's horrible. Only problem with you would be you can't blow some doc off who is upset about a problem, or a nurse who's been up all night with their sick kid. When taking abuse via the telephone, you do SEE the person, they're nothing but a faceless gnome who is upset you've called them.

Granted, the pharma reps have no idea how good they have it with regard to the pay, but YOU don't take the crap home and have to fill out yet another daily report to send to a district manager who has decided to be a real prick because he's/she's decided to get rid of you (probably because their neighbor's kid wants to work in the business).

This is the OP. Well, I said I worked in Commercial Finance in a B2B Sales function, since when is that a Collections Agent? Commercial Finance is in relation to loans, leases, factoring, etc. for commercial clients. I'm an Account Executive.

I'm STILL not getting a clear explanation from you guys and I probably never will get one. You said I don't take the problems of my work home? Excuse me? I'm on call almost 24/7 to handle customer service issues within my Portfolio, we work Monday - Saturday, when "work is done" (defined as the work related to interactions with prospective clients and current clients) there's "work for work" to be done such as database management, market research, record sorting, legal procedures, accounting procedures, partner support, vendor support, managing receivables, managing payables, etc.

I think you guys are either Trolls or you are ENORMOUS cry babies. I'm sorry, I know that's totally disrespectful for me to come up in here and speak to you guys like that. But I have read through this entire forum up and down, in all sections, even in the Company review sections. I have NEVER seen a positive or even a moderate review of ANY company in your industry from this Board. They all evil-doers, or scammers, or whatever, but for some STRANGE reason you guys have been in this industry for the last 20 years? If the situation was THAT BAD then why didn't you leave? Oh I get it, you didn't leave because you guys claim you have the golden handcuffs on...which is a freaking oxymoron to the highest order! The industry is such a bad place but yet the pay is so good you can send your children to Private School and College on a full ride?

Guys give me a break, why are you bashing your industry so much? An industry that has provided you EVERYTHING in life? Everything that the vast majority of sales professionals can only dream of? Come on, it's an open question guys......

 

[Anonymous]

This is the OP. Well, I said I worked in Commercial Finance in a B2B Sales function, since when is that a Collections Agent? Commercial Finance is in relation to loans, leases, factoring, etc. for commercial clients. I'm an Account Executive.

I'm STILL not getting a clear explanation from you guys and I probably never will get one. You said I don't take the problems of my work home? Excuse me? I'm on call almost 24/7 to handle customer service issues within my Portfolio, we work Monday - Saturday, when "work is done" (defined as the work related to interactions with prospective clients and current clients) there's "work for work" to be done such as database management, market research, record sorting, legal procedures, accounting procedures, partner support, vendor support, managing receivables, managing payables, etc.

I think you guys are either Trolls or you are ENORMOUS cry babies. I'm sorry, I know that's totally disrespectful for me to come up in here and speak to you guys like that. But I have read through this entire forum up and down, in all sections, even in the Company review sections. I have NEVER seen a positive or even a moderate review of ANY company in your industry from this Board. They all evil-doers, or scammers, or whatever, but for some STRANGE reason you guys have been in this industry for the last 20 years? If the situation was THAT BAD then why didn't you leave? Oh I get it, you didn't leave because you guys claim you have the golden handcuffs on...which is a freaking oxymoron to the highest order! The industry is such a bad place but yet the pay is so good you can send your children to Private School and College on a full ride?

Guys give me a break, why are you bashing your industry so much? An industry that has provided you EVERYTHING in life? Everything that the vast majority of sales professionals can only dream of? Come on, it's an open question guys......

Some things cannot be described. They have to be experienced.

I suggest this: Do a ride along with a rep. Or interview. I think you will see what they are saying here.

I am ex pharma and went into device. I did 225 last year. Good gig. Device is entirely different than pharma. Copiers is totally different than pharma. Rent a cars is entirely different.

Plus man, what do you expect, a website to extoll the virtues of this industry and how people like what they do? This is the internet man.

You seem angry. I am guessing it is because of your pay? I mean, what is it?

Sure. People bitch. My good friends are MDs and attorneys and they bitch worse than the people on here do.

You won't get a clear explanation because you have no ability to understand what these people are saying. Or you choose not to. I don't know.

Are you Frank Grimes from the Simpsons?

 

[Anonymous]

It sounds as though you have adequate clients to serve and consult with. You spend your day meeting deliverables, following up, tasking out, managing and cataloging, reporting to the SEC etc...all respectable and rewarding, albeit time consuming as you mention. Yet, the rewarding part is what stands out.

I'm out, so I'm coming at you from a very real perspective.
No one wants to talk to a Rep. They spend the day driving around (GPS tracking) to locations with recall planned computer diagrams and sales sheets as well as call metrics to log and bring up-I mean make up. Canned scripts, not real human conversations (like you have); then, you go home the end of the day and look at your self and know it was one big lie.

Micromanage that. Feel good about that.
Ok, why not leave? (once again, I'm gone)
The golden handcuffs and lethargy kicks in.
company car, salary(50-65K now MAYBE), expense account

Everything is matricide to death. Fabricating all those metrics, being micromanaged on imaginary interactions takes a toll and this is where reps vent. Quite frankly, the hypocrisy of it all gets maddening and upper management's expectations and lack of understanding the challenges of true time with an HCP is ironically career suicide.

You have great points. So, leave. Well, I recommend you go for one of these jobs. Stay a year, then leave. Then, come back to talk. I'm out. But, I do get how hard it is. Each year I enocourage my friends left behind to make an escape plan and execute little by little until you can get out. The number one problem once upon a time was managers that wanted reps that were stressed out on debt-kids in private school, expensive car, stayathome wives and big mortgage. Why? So they would be hungry for that bonus check. That's left many reps destitute and poor now, and holding on or -not.

 

[Anonymous]

The problem is that the rep role could be fairly easy but all the nonsense makes it so difficult.

And, there is kind of a mafia mentality that when a manager wants someone out (usually for having a brain and for a failure to conform)--that rep is gone without any questions asked (even if the rep was #1 in the whole company).

It's a sales job where the actual sales seem to be the thing that people are the least concerned about.

 

[Drug Dumper]

Pharma is not sales. Tangible sales is sales, and with pharma, you have to rely on a computer to tell you who has written your product. and then that's usually skewed depending on the company buying this information from the big "tank" in DC.

You never know if you've "sold" anybody.

As for the OP, if you don't believe any of the things actual reps have written, why don't you prance your arse right into a pharma gig and THEN get back to the rest of us?

 

[Anonymous]

Pharma is not sales. Tangible sales is sales, and with pharma, you have to rely on a computer to tell you who has written your product. and then that's usually skewed depending on the company buying this information from the big "tank" in DC.

You never know if you've "sold" anybody.

As for the OP, if you don't believe any of the things actual reps have written, why don't you prance your arse right into a pharma gig and THEN get back to the rest of us?

OP here, WHEN did I say I didn't believe what you guys were saying? I could have sworn I said that what you guys are saying is most likely the truth because it's in EVERY SINGLE JOB I've had, even ones right above minimum wage.

My question is still how doesn't the high compensation, on top of the job being part-time, on top of you not having to actually sell anything but just deliver pizza and give samples......NOT MAKE UP FOR THE FACT that your Manager and the Team of people you work with are A-holes? The pay doesn't accommodate for the bullshyt you have to go through? If not, then how much should you be paid then? You are in the top 3% of income earners in the country and you just deliver samples all day to the same client that you or the person in your territory before you already "sold". Do you guys even prospect for new client acquisitions?

Maybe I'm different than you guys? I started working at the age of 16 at just above minimum wage and didn't start my sales professional career until around the age of 23. I have and currently go through a TON of pure shyt on a daily basis from partners, vendors, lenders, current clients, potential clients, underwriters, etc. I'm doing fairly well but the vast MAJORITY of reps in my industry are NOT and would DIE to have you guys' position.

To the poster above that said how about I take my arse into the Pharma industry and see what it's about? Okay....I also know about 22 other guys that will be willing to take your job tomorrow. You want to exchange emails or PMs? I'm serious, if you guys' hate your job so much with all of those perks, my guys will take it in a MINUTE.

 

[Anonymous]

OP here, WHEN did I say I didn't believe what you guys were saying? I could have sworn I said that what you guys are saying is most likely the truth because it's in EVERY SINGLE JOB I've had, even ones right above minimum wage.

My question is still how doesn't the high compensation, on top of the job being part-time, on top of you not having to actually sell anything but just deliver pizza and give samples......NOT MAKE UP FOR THE FACT that your Manager and the Team of people you work with are A-holes? The pay doesn't accommodate for the bullshyt you have to go through? If not, then how much should you be paid then? You are in the top 3% of income earners in the country and you just deliver samples all day to the same client that you or the person in your territory before you already "sold". Do you guys even prospect for new client acquisitions?

Maybe I'm different than you guys? I started working at the age of 16 at just above minimum wage and didn't start my sales professional career until around the age of 23. I have and currently go through a TON of pure shyt on a daily basis from partners, vendors, lenders, current clients, potential clients, underwriters, etc. I'm doing fairly well but the vast MAJORITY of reps in my industry are NOT and would DIE to have you guys' position.

To the poster above that said how about I take my arse into the Pharma industry and see what it's about? Okay....I also know about 22 other guys that will be willing to take your job tomorrow. You want to exchange emails or PMs? I'm serious, if you guys' hate your job so much with all of those perks, my guys will take it in a MINUTE.

What do you currently sell?

 

[Anonymous]

What do you currently sell?

Hogwash