Whats with the super young, inexperienced DM's?

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Anonymous said:
Yes there is a risk of lymphoma with a biologic, but there is also a risk of lymphoma with the conventional therapy used before biologics. By the time they get to ampremilast, they have assumed the risk of lymphoma and ampremilast won't change that. Since you have no experience in rheumatology, you sound perfect for management at this company. Trust me, it won't be easy to convince these docs to use this drug that doesn't work. Good luck.
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Some DMARD's (azathioprine, cyclophosphamide) have been associated with increased cancer risk, which is why they are used less. The most common DMARD, methotrexate, has shown no correlation with any cancers.

Your characterization of apremilast as a "drug that doesn't work" is not based on data. If it had not worked for anyone, it wouldn't get FDA approval.

Apremilast will be a bridge between methotrexate and the biologics (which are injectables and expensive). Why wouldn't a patient try apremilast, if there is a chance that it can work for them? You don't know until you try.
 






Anonymous said:
Some DMARD's (azathioprine, cyclophosphamide) have been associated with increased cancer risk, which is why they are used less. The most common DMARD, methotrexate, has shown no correlation with any cancers.

Your characterization of apremilast as a "drug that doesn't work" is not based on data. If it had not worked for anyone, it wouldn't get FDA approval.

Apremilast will be a bridge between methotrexate and the biologics (which are injectables and expensive). Why wouldn't a patient try apremilast, if there is a chance that it can work for them? You don't know until you try.
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I wouldn't characterize apremilast as a "drug that doesn't work", but as a "weak" drug.

Example 1 - psoriasis
In Phase 2 trial, 41% of apremilast treated patients had a 75% reduction in disease symptoms, but in the the larger, label-enabling Phase 3 trial, only 33% reached the 75% reduction level, well below the efficacy of the injectable biologics.

Example 2 - rheumatoid arthritis
In Phase 2 trials, apremilast failed to hit its primary endpoint of an ACR20 improvement (the minimal accepted efficacy in RA, most biologics show ACR50 and ACR70 improvement.

Apremilast will never get an RA indication, and will compete with established non-biologic treatments for mild to moderate psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis patients. Apremilast will be nothing but a blip on the radar of the biologics - the products that will continue to control the market.

It is a good thing that Celgene has decided to go with young and cheap with this saleforce. It will be destroyed in the real world.
 












Anonymous said:
Anonymous said:
I wouldn't characterize apremilast as a "drug that doesn't work", but as a "weak" drug.

But you did, initially, say that apremilast is a "drug that doesn't work". Now you changed your tune to it being a "weak" drug.

Patients and doctors will be decide what apremilast is, not you.
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There are multiple people who post on this site. I never said that it didn't work. I was providing specific data that it is a weak drug. You are correct. The market will decide, in areas where it gets indications. It will never get an RA indication (where the real money is). In the other indications, it will get scripts from the other non-biologics. There will be no effect on the biologics,
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This drug will have to price around 10-12k and gain contracts in order to be used. Even then this drug will not hit a billion even when every other drug in this space has. Just look at wall street projections. Have fun.
 






Anonymous said:
This drug will have to price around 10-12k and gain contracts in order to be used. Even then this drug will not hit a billion even when every other drug in this space has. Just look at wall street projections. Have fun.
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Exactly right. The difference in sales projections between Celgene and Wall Street are greater with this product than any launch in recent history. And it is not just one analyst. There is consistent agreement that Celgene has over promised and will under deliver. It will be fun to watch!
 






Listen up all... Super young, hot DM's were hired with no experience in Mgmt, but some experience in the specific geography they cover with Derm's. These gals are making 70k bases, and were hired to put a strong team of mainly experienced Rep's together and introduce them to the Derm's that they have relationships with. That is the business model for this sales force, like it or not, agree with it or not. This is not the business model that made Celgene successful, nor the model that anyone has ever used in this industry. We'll see how it works I suppose. The start date is 7/1, it is likely that the business model will change in 2015 after the launch and rollout of this sales force. Where these DM's will be placed or what will happen is anyone's guess. But managing rep's who are being offered 110-120k bases plus options seems unlikely long term. They are here to hire, introduce and get the ball rolling quickly.
 






Anonymous said:
Listen up all... Super young, hot DM's were hired with no experience in Mgmt, but some experience in the specific geography they cover with Derm's. These gals are making 70k bases, and were hired to put a strong team of mainly experienced Rep's together and introduce them to the Derm's that they have relationships with. That is the business model for this sales force, like it or not, agree with it or not. This is not the business model that made Celgene successful, nor the model that anyone has ever used in this industry. We'll see how it works I suppose. The start date is 7/1, it is likely that the business model will change in 2015 after the launch and rollout of this sales force. Where these DM's will be placed or what will happen is anyone's guess. But managing rep's who are being offered 110-120k bases plus options seems unlikely long term. They are here to hire, introduce and get the ball rolling quickly.
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That makes sense, but it also doesn't make sense at all. Even contract companies are not hiring Rep's to be Managers, it makes Celgene look like a weak company. And I can only imagine a rep with a few yrs experience from another company being hired to manage top performing Rep's and these Rep's taking the Manager seriously. Makes zero practical sense, and no other companies will follow this foolish logic, guaranteed. Especially after the debacle to come, this is a recipe for complete disaster.
 






Anonymous said:
Listen up all... Super young, hot DM's were hired with no experience in Mgmt, but some experience in the specific geography they cover with Derm's. These gals are making 70k bases, and were hired to put a strong team of mainly experienced Rep's together and introduce them to the Derm's that they have relationships with. That is the business model for this sales force, like it or not, agree with it or not. This is not the business model that made Celgene successful, nor the model that anyone has ever used in this industry. We'll see how it works I suppose. The start date is 7/1, it is likely that the business model will change in 2015 after the launch and rollout of this sales force. Where these DM's will be placed or what will happen is anyone's guess. But managing rep's who are being offered 110-120k bases plus options seems unlikely long term. They are here to hire, introduce and get the ball rolling quickly.
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So are you saying the reps hired for derm will not be here very long?
 






Anonymous said:
That makes sense, but it also doesn't make sense at all. Even contract companies are not hiring Rep's to be Managers, it makes Celgene look like a weak company. And I can only imagine a rep with a few yrs experience from another company being hired to manage top performing Rep's and these Rep's taking the Manager seriously. Makes zero practical sense, and no other companies will follow this foolish logic, guaranteed. Especially after the debacle to come, this is a recipe for complete disaster.
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What you dont seem to be able to grasp, and most others in the executive world in pharma/biotech have, is that managers have almost no value in the pharma/biotech environment anymore.

Go look at the MAJORITY (not singling out one or two companies but the MAJORITY) of job requirements and salary for Managers/Directors (people supervising reps) and you will see I am 100% correct. Look how many are being pulled out of training and PM with no mgt experience to be DM/RDs these days. Its common practice so get used to it. You dinosaurs are done.

Speak to recruiters and see what they say. Keep living in your own bubble and enjoy it while it lasts.
 






I interviewed this week with a male. Don't know about other experiences but this guy was not young. Looked to be in his early 50s. Grey. Looked to be 25 pounds overweight.

Very, very informed. Very, very experienced. Genuine. I enjoyed my interaction with him and really appreciated his taking the time to explain the culture as he has experienced it as well as Celgene's vision with the drug and his vision with his team. Both the good and the bad. Kinda guy I would like to perform for.

Sorry the rest of you have had bad experiences. Hope I get called back.

I am with a biotech already and I can tell you that no one is happy at AMGN, ABBV, JNJ, PFE so not really sure why there is such hostility towards Celgene.
 






The Midwest Regional must be quite the hound. Midwest is a very tough market to launch any drug in and hiring DM's based on their looks will inevitably cost this fool his job. He has great taste in women but what an unprofessional clown.
 






Anonymous said:
The Midwest Regional must be quite the hound. Midwest is a very tough market to launch any drug in and hiring DM's based on their looks will inevitably cost this fool his job. He has great taste in women but what an unprofessional clown.
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Please give initials as I am interviewing in the Midwest...thanks!
 






Anonymous said:
Listen up all... Super young, hot DM's were hired with no experience in Mgmt, but some experience in the specific geography they cover with Derm's. These gals are making 70k bases, and were hired to put a strong team of mainly experienced Rep's together and introduce them to the Derm's that they have relationships with. That is the business model for this sales force, like it or not, agree with it or not. This is not the business model that made Celgene successful, nor the model that anyone has ever used in this industry. We'll see how it works I suppose. The start date is 7/1, it is likely that the business model will change in 2015 after the launch and rollout of this sales force. Where these DM's will be placed or what will happen is anyone's guess. But managing rep's who are being offered 110-120k bases plus options seems unlikely long term. They are here to hire, introduce and get the ball rolling quickly.
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So comical to read someone's post who has no idea what he/she is talking about.
 






Anonymous said:
Listen up all... Super young, hot DM's were hired with no experience in Mgmt, but some experience in the specific geography they cover with Derm's. These gals are making 70k bases, and were hired to put a strong team of mainly experienced Rep's together and introduce them to the Derm's that they have relationships with. That is the business model for this sales force, like it or not, agree with it or not. This is not the business model that made Celgene successful, nor the model that anyone has ever used in this industry. We'll see how it works I suppose. The start date is 7/1, it is likely that the business model will change in 2015 after the launch and rollout of this sales force. Where these DM's will be placed or what will happen is anyone's guess. But managing rep's who are being offered 110-120k bases plus options seems unlikely long term. They are here to hire, introduce and get the ball rolling quickly.
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Who ever heard of a DM making 70K, while their subordinates make 110-120K?

If these "gals" have the relationships, then why not hire them to be the reps?
 






Anonymous said:
I interviewed this week with a male. Don't know about other experiences but this guy was not young. Looked to be in his early 50s. Grey. Looked to be 25 pounds overweight.

Very, very informed. Very, very experienced. Genuine. I enjoyed my interaction with him and really appreciated his taking the time to explain the culture as he has experienced it as well as Celgene's vision with the drug and his vision with his team. Both the good and the bad. Kinda guy I would like to perform for.

Sorry the rest of you have had bad experiences. Hope I get called back.

I am with a biotech already and I can tell you that no one is happy at AMGN, ABBV, JNJ, PFE so not really sure why there is such hostility towards Celgene.
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Why is no one happy at AMGN, ABBV, JNJ, PFE? They own the market.
 






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