Time to shut down NIBR

[Anonymous]

There is no doubt that successful drug development became more and more difficult – NIBRs answer to the challenge was the hiring of less and less experienced (management) and qualified (applied science) people, firstly the DA heads. Look at the decline of the Basel site over the last 8 years and the GES 2013 – the problems are on the table, the solutions proposed are minor modifications to stay in power.

I still find this completely interesting - comments from people who are scientists, professional empiricists, who are supposed to be paragons of reason, continually take a statement in regards to the general situation the apply a completely subjective problem / solution statements to the specific situation.

General statement - "There is no doubt that successful drug development became more and more difficult . . . . "

Specific statement - "NIBRs answer . . . . "

While it could be true that the cause and effect chain between the "NIBR answer" and lack of success of new drug development at NIBR could be true, I think that the only way to rationally argue it is to show that the trend across all drug development drug development is that they are also following the same "answer" as NIBR thus causing the same result.

The problem is that, you will not find that trend.

Drug development in general has hit a fundamental wall and the Novartis / NIBR solution is obviously not the answer but it surely isn't the reason for the overall problem.

 

[Anonymous]

I still find this completely interesting - comments from people who are scientists, professional empiricists, who are supposed to be paragons of reason, continually take a statement in regards to the general situation the apply a completely subjective problem / solution statements to the specific situation.

General statement - "There is no doubt that successful drug development became more and more difficult . . . . "

Specific statement - "NIBRs answer . . . . "

While it could be true that the cause and effect chain between the "NIBR answer" and lack of success of new drug development at NIBR could be true, I think that the only way to rationally argue it is to show that the trend across all drug development drug development is that they are also following the same "answer" as NIBR thus causing the same result.

The problem is that, you will not find that trend.

Drug development in general has hit a fundamental wall and the Novartis / NIBR solution is obviously not the answer but it surely isn't the reason for the overall problem.

a reasoned argument always quiets the bs.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, keep going. You're still a prick.

I believe that any fair minded outside judge would say that we would be doing better with more pricks and less apologists.

 

[Anonymous]

I believe that any fair minded outside judge would say that we would be doing better with more pricks and less apologists.

Not only fair minded outside judges would say so – approval rate of management at NIBR Basel is in the meantime below 10% by the troops – they suffer under their incompetence and unaccountability every day

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Euro-Borat, aka Grand Philosopher of NIBR, you are really addicted to this, aren't you? Five consecutive posts with no intervening response from anybody?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

BTW--JR has no idea who you are.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Euro-Borat, aka Grand Philosopher of NIBR, you are really addicted to this, aren't you? Five consecutive posts with no intervening response from anybody?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

BTW--JR has no idea who you are.

"Time. . . 'ime. . . ime, . . . is on my side. Yes it is. Time. . . 'ime. . . 'ime. . . is on my side. Yes it, yes it is."

Read more: Novartis to chop 371 jobs, shutter research center in global R&D shakeup - FierceBiotech http://www.fiercebiotech.com/story/n...#ixzz2joDqMtT6
Subscribe at FierceBiotech

http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showthread.php?t=502756&page=5

 

[Anonymous]

Close NIBR Basel under the current Head and top leadership members

that would leave the rest of NIBR which is just as bad. Bunch of overpaid, nonproductive losers.

 

[Anonymous]

Speaking as a NIBR Basel scientist the place is a mess. Patel is running everything into the ground and Fishman is cheering him on. Everyone is afraid to speak up to Patel and tell him that it is all going to crap. He has been there for years and not brought a single thing to market in autoimmunity. So what does Fishman do, give him control of NIBR Europe. Everyone is just trying to keep a job for a few more years until retirement or get out. Millions spent on new buildings but no thought given to actual drug discovery. Failed academics fucking everything up. And none of them even bother to learn from those that have brought a drug to market. Patel and Fishman should have the decency to quit as they don't know what the hell they are doing.

 

[Anonymous]

Speaking as a NIBR Basel scientist the place is a mess. Patel is running everything into the ground and Fishman is cheering him on. Everyone is afraid to speak up to Patel and tell him that it is all going to crap. He has been there for years and not brought a single thing to market in autoimmunity. So what does Fishman do, give him control of NIBR Europe. Everyone is just trying to keep a job for a few more years until retirement or get out. Millions spent on new buildings but no thought given to actual drug discovery. Failed academics fucking everything up. And none of them even bother to learn from those that have brought a drug to market. Patel and Fishman should have the decency to quit as they don't know what the hell they are doing.

You could exchange the names and geography and have an accurate description on NIBR anywhere.

 

[Anonymous]

Speaking as a NIBR Basel scientist the place is a mess. Patel is running everything into the ground and Fishman is cheering him on. Everyone is afraid to speak up to Patel and tell him that it is all going to crap. He has been there for years and not brought a single thing to market in autoimmunity. So what does Fishman do, give him control of NIBR Europe. Everyone is just trying to keep a job for a few more years until retirement or get out. Millions spent on new buildings but no thought given to actual drug discovery. Failed academics fucking everything up. And none of them even bother to learn from those that have brought a drug to market. Patel and Fishman should have the decency to quit as they don't know what the hell they are doing.

Very good analysis – Basel is ruined by him

 

[Anonymous]

Very good analysis – Basel is ruined by him

Another example of the rational thinking that predominates in NIBR. So what explains the systemic failure everywhere in NIBR? Then to generalize that, what explains the failure across all if Pharma Research?

Let me guess, the answer is like when I ask my 5 year old daughter, "Who broke the lamp" and she says "No me".

So the same guy, who attributes the root cause of the total failure of pharma research for the last 20 years, to an individual, isn't the root cause of the failure?

I think that we have proof of the kind of reasoning that is the root cause.

 

[Anonymous]

Speaking as a NIBR Basel scientist the place is a mess. Patel is running everything into the ground and Fishman is cheering him on. Everyone is afraid to speak up to Patel and tell him that it is all going to crap. He has been there for years and not brought a single thing to market in autoimmunity. So what does Fishman do, give him control of NIBR Europe. Everyone is just trying to keep a job for a few more years until retirement or get out. Millions spent on new buildings but no thought given to actual drug discovery. Failed academics fucking everything up. And none of them even bother to learn from those that have brought a drug to market. Patel and Fishman should have the decency to quit as they don't know what the hell they are doing.

Fishman always was aware that the guy is not suited for a job in pharma. That is why he hired him. No danger for himself, no future for Basel research

 

[Anonymous]

Very good analysis – Basel is ruined by him

In NIBR Basel every good and successful one over the last years was kicked out, forced into early retirement by making the life miserable or otherwise silenced by bullying and intimidation.

 

[Anonymous]

In NIBR Basel every good and successful one over the last years was kicked out, forced into early retirement by making the life miserable or otherwise silenced by bullying and intimidation.

In science a "good and successful" outcome would be rational and easily understood by all. So when you use the term "good and successful" in regards to NIBR Basel how would you define that? Would you be referring to the torrents of commercially successful products that we produced from the science at NIBR during those periods?

Next comes the claim, "kicked out"? So let me guess, after doing the "good and successful" science at NIBR Basel that resulted in products for Novartis that results in big $'s and improved human health they were "kicked out" where they went on to other research orbs and did the same? Yep, we can see the results at those orgs now.

Then lastly, a claim that can ONLY come from the world class minds at NIBR, "forced into early retirement by making the life miserable or otherwise silenced by bullying and intimidation". I predict that if they actually "good and successful" then they couldn't be treated so as they would have simply left and followed in the footsteps of their "good and successful" colleagues who were "kicked out" and went to other research orgs where they could have continued to be "good and successful".

I've got an alternative explanation - NIBR, just like the other research arms all across pharma, are not "good and successful" and aren't producing SHIT. These guys may have been responsible or even maybe scapegoated for the fact that NIBR Basel isn't producing SHIT and are thus a symptom and maybe even a cause.

But what I find fascinating is who would be stupid enough to make such claims. You see, if we assume that your claims are true then you (probably) and everyone left at NIBR Basel, NIBR and the research arms of pharma are NOT "good and successful" and are the result of adverse / Darwinian selection - all the non-idiot fucks are gone and all that are left is you (probably) and for sure, those still left!

But for sure, this above post is a display of the geniuses we have at NIBR.

 

[Anonymous]

In science a "good and successful" outcome would be rational and easily understood by all. So when you use the term "good and successful" in regards to NIBR Basel how would you define that? Would you be referring to the torrents of commercially successful products that we produced from the science at NIBR during those periods?

Next comes the claim, "kicked out"? So let me guess, after doing the "good and successful" science at NIBR Basel that resulted in products for Novartis that results in big $'s and improved human health they were "kicked out" where they went on to other research orbs and did the same? Yep, we can see the results at those orgs now.

Then lastly, a claim that can ONLY come from the world class minds at NIBR, "forced into early retirement by making the life miserable or otherwise silenced by bullying and intimidation". I predict that if they actually "good and successful" then they couldn't be treated so as they would have simply left and followed in the footsteps of their "good and successful" colleagues who were "kicked out" and went to other research orgs where they could have continued to be "good and successful".

I've got an alternative explanation - NIBR, just like the other research arms all across pharma, are not "good and successful" and aren't producing SHIT. These guys may have been responsible or even maybe scapegoated for the fact that NIBR Basel isn't producing SHIT and are thus a symptom and maybe even a cause.

But what I find fascinating is who would be stupid enough to make such claims. You see, if we assume that your claims are true then you (probably) and everyone left at NIBR Basel, NIBR and the research arms of pharma are NOT "good and successful" and are the result of adverse / Darwinian selection - all the non-idiot fucks are gone and all that are left is you (probably) and for sure, those still left!

But for sure, this above post is a display of the geniuses we have at NIBR.

NIBR is still standing.

 

[Anonymous]

NIBR is still standing.

Yes, but like a SciFi novel with spaceships that fly faster than light, force fields etc, there is no rational explanation.

How does it feel to get paid and work for an organization that not only doesn't create any value but destroys billions of $'s of it? Instead of throwing down the shit-hole of NIBR Novartis could donate to ANY public health charity in the world and the patients would get something out of it other then highly paid researchers and their boondoggle conferences and Latte's!

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, but like a SciFi novel with spaceships that fly faster than light, force fields etc, there is no rational explanation.

How does it feel to get paid and work for an organization that not only doesn't create any value but destroys billions of $'s of it? Instead of throwing down the shit-hole of NIBR Novartis could donate to ANY public health charity in the world and the patients would get something out of it other then highly paid researchers and their boondoggle conferences and Latte's!

We get papers on our cvs. That's value. mF is a genius

 

[Anonymous]

We get papers on our cvs. That's value.

To whom? Research all across Pharma is in the same boat, lots of publishing but no commercial results. And they are publishing much more. Academia? Sure, go back and earn ⅓ what you are now.

Now that's value!

 

[Anonymous]

Close NIBR Basle under the current management. It is a waste of money

 

[Anonymous]

Close NIBR Basle under the current management. It is a waste of money

"The wave of new drug approvals that had been building at the FDA has broken. According to the official tally of new drug and biologics approvals at the agency, the biopharma industry registered only 27 OKs for new entities in 2013--a sharp plunge from 2012's high of 39 that once again raises big questions about the productivity and sustainability of the world's multibillion-dollar R&D business.

Read more: An ominous trend resurfaces as new drug approvals plunge in 2013 - FierceBiotech http://www.fiercebiotech.com/specia...-new-drug-approvals-plunge-2013#ixzz2rehgSTyl
Subscribe at FierceBiotech

"Novartis: Layoffs as a Sign of Productivity Crisis in R&D"

"The CBCD believes that these potential layoffs by Novartis may be an example of another pharmaceutical company suffering from an industry wide problem.
That problem is the productivity crisis in pharmaceutical R&D."

Although Novartis is known for its strong drug pipeline, the CBCD believes that these possible layoffs may be a direct result of the productivity crisis in pharmaceutical R&D, which may finally have hit the pharmaceutical company. As an article published on November 5, 2013 in the industrial daily, FierceBiotech.com reported “The pharma giant hammered the British community two years ago when it eliminated a major manufacturing operation in Horsham. But the Novartis Institutes for BioMedical Research had committed to keeping its research work going and last fall discussed a major upgrade for the site. Today, though, it confirmed that it will shutter the complex, where investigators concentrated on respiratory programs (2).”

"Further evidence is the fact that the company is considering a global restructuring of its entire R&D program. “The move signals a wider "realignment" of (Novartis’) R&D worldwide (2).”
The FiercePharma article continued saying, “There's no immediate word from Novartis on what it intends to do with its huge global R&D effort, which consumes more than $9 billion a year. Novartis has long held the title for the largest R&D budget in the industry…most of the Big Pharmas have triggered some sort of R&D reorganization over the past few years, though Novartis was always one of the few exceptions to the rule (2).”
The CBCD believes that the proposed layoffs and restructuring of Novartis’ global R&D efforts are a direct result of the challenges they face in R&D, and would like to offer to Novartis and other pharmaceutical companies, a new technology to overcome R&D challenges."

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/11/prweb11311943.htm

Hey but the wisdom coming out of posts here in CP is that it is "management's fault".

I think that we should send all these worthless freaks back to academia where they all be post docs again.