Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcare

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Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
No thanks.... I'll keep my freedom and you keep your V.A. care or move to Massachusetts, I've heard how great their social-healthcare plan is working.
“Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it”
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http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/7777.pdf

Massachusetts Health Care Reform: Two Years Later
IMPLEMENTATION CHALLENGES
Despite the success of the reform plan in expanding
coverage in the short-term, the state faces a number of
challenges as it moves forward with implementation.
The costs of reform have been higher than expected.
Because of the successful enrollment into the
Commonwealth Care program, the costs for this program
have exceeded previous estimates. The Governor’s budget
request of $869 million for 2009 is about $400 million more
than that for 2008, and it is believed that this funding level
may still fall short. State officials remain committed to the
reform effort and are considering various options for raising
additional revenue, including increasing the tobacco tax.
There have also been calls for a greater commitment to the
concept of shared responsibility on the part of providers,
health insurers and employers, though no changes to the
current financing structure have been made. Additionally,
legislation aimed at constraining health care cost growth
overall is being debated by the legislature.

Government NEVER lowers cost and it is NEVER concerned with the quality of healthcare only the quantity it can GIVE to the irresponsible masses and the expense of the RESPONSIBLE.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
My point is that youre screaming about wanting to live in some mythical lazziez faire fantasyland that in reality, looks a whole lot more like Somalia than somewhere you'd want to live.

Railing on about government and libruls and taxes and liberty and freedoms and personal responsibility is fine, but if you dont have any coherent plan at the end of the day, its pointless.
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I agree to a point, Americans would be shocked if politicians really cared about fiscal discipline, such as cutting every federal agency's budget in half, cutting foreign aid in half, cutting social programs in half, cutting the military in half. Once these idiots let the genie out of the bottle in terms of spending, too many people became dependent on it. There really is no reason we should have nearly 3 million people working for the federal government.

Ron Paul has solutions but the odds of him getting elected are slim to none. Trump is a close second.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
My point is that youre screaming about wanting to live in some mythical lazziez faire fantasyland that in reality, looks a whole lot more like Somalia than somewhere you'd want to live.

Railing on about government and libruls and taxes and liberty and freedoms and personal responsibility is fine, but if you dont have any coherent plan at the end of the day, its pointless.
Click to expand...

Which free-market society resembles Somalia? You have NO point... Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. So the plan is to oppose ALL liberals with socialist agendas and embrace plans that promote the free-market. It's a simple plan that represents American principles and do NOT resemble Somalia in ANY WAY!?!?!?
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
I agree to a point, Americans would be shocked if politicians really cared about fiscal discipline, such as cutting every federal agency's budget in half, cutting foreign aid in half, cutting social programs in half, cutting the military in half. Once these idiots let the genie out of the bottle in terms of spending, too many people became dependent on it. There really is no reason we should have nearly 3 million people working for the federal government.

Ron Paul has solutions but the odds of him getting elected are slim to none. Trump is a close second.
Click to expand...

I like Ron Paul's ideas about limited government, but the fact of the matter is that Ron Paul is an unelectable fool. Any 911 conspiracy theorist is a complete kook/whackjob.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Which free-market society resembles Somalia? You have NO point... Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. So the plan is to oppose ALL liberals with socialist agendas and embrace plans that promote the free-market. It's a simple plan that represents American principles and do NOT resemble Somalia in ANY WAY!?!?!?
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Which free market society resembles Somalia? Ummm. Lemme think... I know! Somalia resembles Somalia!

My point, if you are still too obtuse to understand, is that Somalia is a perfect example of a totally free market - no regulation, no limits, and freedom to do whatever you want to do, as long as you hold the capital.

Yes, I do understand that there is an issue of security, but the point remains that wild free market is not a good thing, no matter what you'd like to believe. Look at what happened with Wall Street and market deregulation (which incidentally has not been fixed....).

Health care is precisely the area where we DONT want free market to reign.. unless you would like to see people like Suzanne Somers become the medical authorities for a greater proportion of the US population.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/7777.pdf


Government NEVER lowers cost and it is NEVER concerned with the quality of healthcare only the quantity it can GIVE to the irresponsible masses and the expense of the RESPONSIBLE.
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Hmmm. Lets take a real world example from earlier in the thread.. the Veterans Administration.


The VA is quite concerned with the quality of healthcare. This is one reason why it has incredibly good, exacting standards of clinical practice published publically on its websites, including detalied guidelines on drug use that are painstakingly drawn from evidence based medicine, much of which it derives on its own. They do this specifically to LOWER COST and IMPROVE QUALITY. The result is an efficient system giving good bang for the buck for healthcare.

The IRRESPONSIBLE in this situation are the people who are sick. That will be you one day, my friend, because it is not IRRESPONSIBLE to contract pancreatic cancer, or malignant melanoma, or to be unfortunate enough to be born with a gene set that programs heart disease, cancer, osteoporosis, or diabetes into your genetic code.

The RESPONSIBLE people here, are responsible enough to understand that we all need to contribute to the care of each other, (i.e. the basic concept of health insurance, which is apparently a socialist concept to you) because eventually, you are going to BE the sick one.

This is where your Ayn Rand novels that you clearly so dearly prize fall apart... because unless you are fine with letting your genes and wallet size determine your fate, despite lifesaving medicine available, you're eventually going to have to pay for soemone else's healthcare.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Free healthcare, free housing, free food, free school, free transportation----This sound like FREEDOM to me
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Hmmm. Lets take a real world example from earlier in the thread.. the Veterans Administration.


The VA is quite concerned with the quality of healthcare. This is one reason why it has incredibly good, exacting standards of clinical practice published publically on its websites, including detalied guidelines on drug use that are painstakingly drawn from evidence based medicine, much of which it derives on its own. They do this specifically to LOWER COST and IMPROVE QUALITY. The result is an efficient system giving good bang for the buck for healthcare.

The IRRESPONSIBLE in this situation are the people who are sick. That will be you one day, my friend, because it is not IRRESPONSIBLE to contract pancreatic cancer, or malignant melanoma, or to be unfortunate enough to be born with a gene set that programs heart disease, cancer, osteoporosis, or diabetes into your genetic code.

The RESPONSIBLE people here, are responsible enough to understand that we all need to contribute to the care of each other, (i.e. the basic concept of health insurance, which is apparently a socialist concept to you) because eventually, you are going to BE the sick one.

This is where your Ayn Rand novels that you clearly so dearly prize fall apart... because unless you are fine with letting your genes and wallet size determine your fate, despite lifesaving medicine available, you're eventually going to have to pay for soemone else's healthcare.
Click to expand...

Nobody disagrees with you that the caring o the sick of a good thing to do. The question is, HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST? People on your side can't answer that question.

By definition healthcare is never cheap. Money drives innovation which leads to better care.

I think in fantasy land where money was plentiful and deficits didn't exist, it would be one thing, but sometimes, your fate is sealed. My father died at the age of 57 a few years ago from a terminal condition that nothing could be done about and they still don't know what causes it, but they know it is not genetic. He looked at me, smiled, held my hand and said "well son, my time is up, it's been a hell of a ride." And yes, I cried, but all the money in the world wasn't going to save him. Sort of like your pancreatic cancer example, it is a death sentence.

Many on your "caring" side of the equation would have invested a shit load of money for my father when in reality, it would not have been worth it.

People are not immortal. When your time is up, its up. Watching my father waste away sort of put my life into perspective. He told me as he was dying "Circle of life...circle of life" and the ironic thing is my wife and I had a child shortly thereafter. And while your argument will be "I bet your attitude will change if you got sick" that is what I am covered by health insurance through work, a supplemental policy outside of work, long term hospice care, etc.

I don't drive the nicest car, or live in a house I can't afford. I live within my means, buy good insurance, but $3,000 a month into the bank every month after all of my obligations are done.

And after all of this, I get some disease that kills me, it is what it is.

Live for today.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Hmmm. Lets take a real world example from earlier in the thread.. the Veterans Administration.


The VA is quite concerned with the quality of healthcare. This is one reason why it has incredibly good, exacting standards of clinical practice published publically on its websites, including detalied guidelines on drug use that are painstakingly drawn from evidence based medicine, much of which it derives on its own. They do this specifically to LOWER COST and IMPROVE QUALITY. The result is an efficient system giving good bang for the buck for healthcare.

The IRRESPONSIBLE in this situation are the people who are sick. That will be you one day, my friend, because it is not IRRESPONSIBLE to contract pancreatic cancer, or malignant melanoma, or to be unfortunate enough to be born with a gene set that programs heart disease, cancer, osteoporosis, or diabetes into your genetic code.

The RESPONSIBLE people here, are responsible enough to understand that we all need to contribute to the care of each other, (i.e. the basic concept of health insurance, which is apparently a socialist concept to you) because eventually, you are going to BE the sick one.

This is where your Ayn Rand novels that you clearly so dearly prize fall apart... because unless you are fine with letting your genes and wallet size determine your fate, despite lifesaving medicine available, you're eventually going to have to pay for soemone else's healthcare.
Click to expand...

People who have pancreatic cancer and were RESPONSIBLE enough to buy insurance have already invested themselves and will be covered. I am talking about the IRRESPONSIBLE who don't buy insurance because they are NOT sick and they think they are going to live forever. They live for the day.... in the end I SHOULD NOT be responsible for them. There is no amount of money that can buy responsibility... All that money only encourages MORE irresponsibility.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
People who have pancreatic cancer and were RESPONSIBLE enough to buy insurance have already invested themselves and will be covered. I am talking about the IRRESPONSIBLE who don't buy insurance because they are NOT sick and they think they are going to live forever. They live for the day.... in the end I SHOULD NOT be responsible for them. There is no amount of money that can buy responsibility... All that money only encourages MORE irresponsibility.
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The liberal mindset never believes in personal responsibility. These are the same mindsets that believe in home-owner bailouts for people who can't make their monthly mortgage payments because they were adjusted up, yet have a Hummer and a BMW...I live in one of those neighborhoods. I see the "Short sale" signs on people's homes that I know for a fact went interest only because we have talked about it.

I am insured up the ass, from homeowners to life to health. Is it cheap? God no, it probably costs me an extra $10,000 a year. Is it worth it? Damn right.

So I don't go to Hawaii like my neighbors do. In fact I don't go on vacation at all.

The funny thing is, liberals hate guys like me. I am an evil rich man, even though I make about $150,000 a year (hardly rich).
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
The liberal mindset never believes in personal responsibility. These are the same mindsets that believe in home-owner bailouts for people who can't make their monthly mortgage payments because they were adjusted up, yet have a Hummer and a BMW...I live in one of those neighborhoods. I see the "Short sale" signs on people's homes that I know for a fact went interest only because we have talked about it.

I am insured up the ass, from homeowners to life to health. Is it cheap? God no, it probably costs me an extra $10,000 a year. Is it worth it? Damn right.

So I don't go to Hawaii like my neighbors do. In fact I don't go on vacation at all.

The funny thing is, liberals hate guys like me. I am an evil rich man, even though I make about $150,000 a year (hardly rich).
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Thats funny... I'm fairly liberal, I make 50% more money than you (and dont hate myself), and I strongly believe in personal responsibility.

Maybe you're making up what you think a liberal is in your own mind so you can tear that fake concept down?
I do however, travel to all sorts of places with exotic and foreign people (Mooslim countries, Alabama, etc) so I guess that must be why I understand the world a bit better than you.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Thats funny... I'm fairly liberal, I make 50% more money than you (and dont hate myself), and I strongly believe in personal responsibility.

Maybe you're making up what you think a liberal is in your own mind so you can tear that fake concept down?
I do however, travel to all sorts of places with exotic and foreign people (Mooslim countries, Alabama, etc) so I guess that must be why I understand the world a bit better than you.
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You responded to my post:

I have found that people that make the sort of money you make (I am only 30, I am guessing you saw 30 maybe when Regan was President?) is there is a profound "liberal guilt." I have some liberal friends who say things like "Oh we need to help them, people like that can't do it themselves."

You assume I don't travel either.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Thats funny... I'm fairly liberal, I make 50% more money than you (and dont hate myself), and I strongly believe in personal responsibility.

Maybe you're making up what you think a liberal is in your own mind so you can tear that fake concept down?
I do however, travel to all sorts of places with exotic and foreign people (Mooslim countries, Alabama, etc) so I guess that must be why I understand the world a bit better than you.
Click to expand...

His description of liberals is SPOT-ON... And nobody cares about how much you think you understand the world, but we do worry about how much you MISUNDERSTAND AMERICA.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Thats funny... I'm fairly liberal, I make 50% more money than you (and dont hate myself), and I strongly believe in personal responsibility.

Maybe you're making up what you think a liberal is in your own mind so you can tear that fake concept down?
I do however, travel to all sorts of places with exotic and foreign people (Mooslim countries, Alabama, etc) so I guess that must be why I understand the world a bit better than you.
Click to expand...

In general.... does the overall liberal-agenda encourage or discourage personal responsibilty? Point me to just ONE area where liberals stand together on personal responsibility. THEY DON'T, It doesn't exist.... it is all about PUNISH the "Rich" and help the poor. If there is a problem, it couldn't possibly be a problem with personal responsibilty, liberals will ALWAYS BLAME SOCIETY. It is ALWAYS society that has MADE these people act in a irresponsible way. So lets give them MORE handouts and since there really is NO consequence for their irresponsibility, the government ONLY encourages more of the same irresponsibility.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
In general.... does the overall liberal-agenda encourage or discourage personal responsibilty? Point me to just ONE area where liberals stand together on personal responsibility. THEY DON'T, It doesn't exist.... it is all about PUNISH the "Rich" and help the poor. If there is a problem, it couldn't possibly be a problem with personal responsibilty, liberals will ALWAYS BLAME SOCIETY. It is ALWAYS society that has MADE these people act in a irresponsible way. So lets give them MORE handouts and since there really is NO consequence for their irresponsibility, the government ONLY encourages more of the same irresponsibility.
Click to expand...

It must be awful to live in your world of pure black and white.

I guess the only thing that keeps you going is the false veneer of feeling superior to all those irresponsible people who are salivating over handouts.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
It must be awful to live in your world of pure black and white.

I guess the only thing that keeps you going is the false veneer of feeling superior to all those irresponsible people who are salivating over handouts.
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Many things are black and white Sir. Moral equivalency is what is ruining this country.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
It must be awful to live in your world of pure black and white.

I guess the only thing that keeps you going is the false veneer of feeling superior to all those irresponsible people who are salivating over handouts.
Click to expand...

Did you answer any of my questions? Did you disprove or refute any of my points? No? Typical liberal response.... divert attention and move on. This coming from a guy who claims to be ALL ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.... You see, it's really NOT possible to be personally responsible while living in the "Gray"



In general.... does the overall liberal-agenda encourage or discourage personal responsibilty? Point me to just ONE area where liberals stand together on personal responsibility. THEY DON'T, It doesn't exist.... it is all about PUNISH the "Rich" and help the poor. If there is a problem, it couldn't possibly be a problem with personal responsibilty, liberals will ALWAYS BLAME SOCIETY. It is ALWAYS society that has MADE these people act in a irresponsible way. So lets give them MORE handouts and since there really is NO consequence for their irresponsibility, the government ONLY encourages more of the same irresponsibility.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Point me to just ONE area where liberals stand together on personal responsibility. THEY DON'T, It doesn't exist.... .
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Your definition of personal responsibilty would more accurately be defined as selfishness, I think. How about this?

Personal responsibilty of the mom to decide her pregnancy's fate.. not looking to big daddy government to make her carry it to term.

Personal responsibility to ensure one doesnt destroy the environment in the long term for the sake of short term profits.

Personal responsiblity to take care of poorer neighbors and citzens when you have the means to do so by agreeing to progressive taxation, because that little kid's breakfast over there is more important than your third flatscreen TV.

Personal responsibilty to ensure that your short term wants do not tower over the societies long term needs.

Personal responsibility to ensure the ENTIRE nations children are well educated, not just the ones who won the birth lottery to wealthier parents.
 






Re: Repeal 'em GOP'ers find out how life is after declining their Gov't run healthcar

Anonymous said:
Your definition of personal responsibilty would more accurately be defined as selfishness, I think. How about this?

Personal responsibilty of the mom to decide her pregnancy's fate.. not looking to big daddy government to make her carry it to term.

Personal responsibility to ensure one doesnt destroy the environment in the long term for the sake of short term profits.

Personal responsiblity to take care of poorer neighbors and citzens when you have the means to do so by agreeing to progressive taxation, because that little kid's breakfast over there is more important than your third flatscreen TV.

Personal responsibilty to ensure that your short term wants do not tower over the societies long term needs.

Personal responsibility to ensure the ENTIRE nations children are well educated, not just the ones who won the birth lottery to wealthier parents.
Click to expand...

What about the responsibility of the government to enable citizens to take care of themselves?

What about the responsibility of a pregnant woman to use birth control?

What about the responsibility of the individual to carry their own weight without becoming a burden on society, such as feeding, educating and clothing their own children?

What about the responsibility of people (and government) to live within their means?

Why should I have to support some crack-addicted baby factory to enable her to go out and buy more crack with her welfare money?

How many times do you have to get mugged in the ghetto by some crack-addicted kid who supports his/her habit by stealing from others? And I'm supposed to give them even more money? Screw that.
 












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