Polls: Affordable Care Act 43% to 38% support


When are both of you going to stop drinking the Kool Aid and go Independent? Ever since I did, I am able to analyze issues on my own without name calling. I voted for Romney and voted for my Governor who is a Democrat.

Big deal.

You people treat your parties as if they are religion. You ignore facts that are contrary to your argument in a way to help justify your own position.

Blind loyalty to a party is intellectually lazy.
 



When are both of you going to stop drinking the Kool Aid and go Independent? Ever since I did, I am able to analyze issues on my own without name calling. I voted for Romney and voted for my Governor who is a Democrat.

Big deal.

You people treat your parties as if they are religion. You ignore facts that are contrary to your argument in a way to help justify your own position.

Blind loyalty to a party is intellectually lazy.

I embrace conservative principles. All I have done is present facts. If a Democrat has conservative tendencies, I would have NO PROBLEM voting for that candidate.
 



I embrace conservative principles. All I have done is present facts. If a Democrat has conservative tendencies, I would have NO PROBLEM voting for that candidate.

the problem is that the "conservative" on these posts brings no facts to the argument. His political arguments are as childish as the ones he uses at his fundamentalist church.

He is a silly old fuck.
 



the problem is that the "conservative" on these posts brings no facts to the argument. His political arguments are as childish as the ones he uses at his fundamentalist church.

He is a silly old fuck.

Yeah.... Theses are not facts.

Debt
http://www.usdebtclock.org

Unemployment
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Federal Welfare
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...97_2017USb_40t

Food Stamps
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43175

Since we know Republicans are powerless to stop Dems., can we give Obama credit or do we find someone to blame?

Now, go find something positive and give Obama FULL CREDIT.

HEADS I WIN, TAILS YOU LOSE.
 



Yeah.... Theses are not facts.

Debt
http://www.usdebtclock.org

Unemployment
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Federal Welfare
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...97_2017USb_40t

Food Stamps
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43175

Since we know Republicans are powerless to stop Dems., can we give Obama credit or do we find someone to blame?

Now, go find something positive and give Obama FULL CREDIT.

HEADS I WIN, TAILS YOU LOSE.

Yep, you win the Faux News / Sara Palin award for being a legend for facts - in your own 85% IQ world.

hahahahahaahah
 






Where do these facts have anything to do with Fox News or Sara Palin you fucking retarded mother fucker..... Where ????????

You are a true fucking drone!

They are presented as conclusive facts that obviously lead to your conclusion just like they are on Fax News / Sara Palin so just like them, you have to have an IQ of 85 to agree.

Very clear huh?

And may I remind you, it looks like your the moron that when presented with a scholarly article using the term "Tax Subsidies" and tried to argue that they weren't implying that the tax loop holes weren't subsidies.

Hey, are you related to the guy that didn't even know that Feudalism was a Medieval Economic system?
 



They are presented as conclusive facts that obviously lead to your conclusion just like they are on Fax News / Sara Palin so just like them, you have to have an IQ of 85 to agree.

Very clear huh?

And may I remind you, it looks like your the moron that when presented with a scholarly article using the term "Tax Subsidies" and tried to argue that they weren't implying that the tax loop holes weren't subsidies.

Hey, are you related to the guy that didn't even know that Feudalism was a Medieval Economic system?

You must be the guy who thinks that all money belongs to government and that any time government grants a tax-break, that equals a subsidy.
 



You must be the guy who thinks that all money belongs to government and that any time government grants a tax-break, that equals a subsidy.

Are you even smart enough to know what a straw many argument is? Good try but I am not the one that makes statements (in caps no less) "NO SERIOUSLY ARGUES THAT THE TAX LOOPHOLES ARE SUBSIDIES" in the same post where there is a link the NBER with dozens of academic articles doing just that.

Maybe if you "got out a bit more" you might have know what both were.

How is your study of Feudalism going?
 



Are you even smart enough to know what a straw many argument is? Good try but I am not the one that makes statements (in caps no less) "NO SERIOUSLY ARGUES THAT THE TAX LOOPHOLES ARE SUBSIDIES" in the same post where there is a link the NBER with dozens of academic articles doing just that.

Maybe if you "got out a bit more" you might have know what both were.

How is your study of Feudalism going?

A tax break is a tax you don't have to pay. A subsidy is money that government gives you. Explain how that is the same.
 







Wow, conclusive. Can you imagine how tough it is for a magazine that is basically a propaganda arm for "big - anything business" to publish a piece by a writer who thinks that Tax Subsidies aren't . . . . . . what they are called by academic economists.

So let me see, let's tally this up. You don't know what the fuck Tax Subsidies are and so I send you a link to a website that has publications from one of the largest, most prestigious professional economics organizations in the world with an article that has been peer reviewed showing that it is a well accepted and studied concept. But still you wrote "NO ONE SERIOUSLY ACCEPTS THAT TAX BREAKS ARE SUBSIDIES". You could have even searched the site itself and found dozens more and even Googled it found hundreds more and even found out that the Law itself defines the Tax Loop hole as a subsidy.

But instead, you find an article from Forbes who has a ECONOMIC incentive to deny that tax breaks are subsidies and you think that was a respond? And while we are at it let me point out that even if there is an valid argument that the Tax Subsidies are not, in this case tax subsidies, what bearing does it have on the "expert accepted" (your characterization not mine) Tax Subsidies that you receive?

Feeding at the trough of govt like a fat bloated pig while deriding others who are skinny is so comfortable for you and those like you that you will cling to any argument in order to sleep better at night.
 



A tax break is a tax you don't have to pay. A subsidy is money that government gives you. Explain how that is the same.

If the govt didn't give the tax break to your employer for the 80% of the health care insurance premiums that they pay to the insurance companies your employers say that they would pass that on to you. To say it another way, it would cost you MORE for the same health care insurance if the govt didn't give your employer a tax break. You pay less while the govt foots the bill - that is by definition a subsidy.

But if you don't believe me you could actually fucking read the article from NBER or the hundreds of other sources on the subject.

I've got a hint for you, when someone has cancer they go to an oncologist right? If they ask a random guy on the street for advice on the cancer we can only hope that they at least take it as less credible than the oncologist.

The "cancer" is Tax Subsidies and the oncologist are Economists.

And you are the "random guy on the street" and you have the least informed opinions on this subject.
 



A tax break is a tax you don't have to pay. A subsidy is money that government gives you. Explain how that is the same.

"If you walk out, on your own, and attempt to give your friendly neighborhood health insurer a dollar, you're taxed on that dollar. If your employer gives the health insurer that dollar on your behalf, that dollar is not taxed. As a result, getting health insurance through your employer became -- and remains -- a much better deal than purchasing it with your wages."

"The third reason is that the subsidy -- and that's what this is, a subsidy to employers who offer health care -- is very big, and quite hidden. In March 2007, the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that ending all employer-related tax breaks for health care would raise $1.23 trillion between 2009 and 2012. That's more than $300 billion a year. That's much more than you'd need to pay for health care."

"But the importance of the employer tax exclusion is simple enough: The hinge question in health care reform is "where do you get the money?" And the main -- and most controversial -- pot of money in health care reform comes from the employer tax exclusion."

T"he first is that it's regressive. This is intuitive enough: The people who enjoy the tax break are employed. The people who enjoy the biggest tax break have employers buying them extremely comprehensive health benefits. Both types of people tend to be richer than people who are unemployed."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/05/health_reform_for_beginners_th.html

If you simply google it you will get many more.

But like the subject of say, global climate change, you will often get the answer people who believe things like you, don't want to hear.
 



If the govt didn't give the tax break to your employer for the 80% of the health care insurance premiums that they pay to the insurance companies your employers say that they would pass that on to you. To say it another way, it would cost you MORE for the same health care insurance if the govt didn't give your employer a tax break. You pay less while the govt foots the bill - that is by definition a subsidy.

But if you don't believe me you could actually fucking read the article from NBER or the hundreds of other sources on the subject.

I've got a hint for you, when someone has cancer they go to an oncologist right? If they ask a random guy on the street for advice on the cancer we can only hope that they at least take it as less credible than the oncologist.

The "cancer" is Tax Subsidies and the oncologist are Economists.

And you are the "random guy on the street" and you have the least informed opinions on this subject.

Government allowing corporations to keep their money as a way to save me money is not a subsidy. Is the default position that EVERYTHING SHOULD BE TAXED and for every activity and dollar not taxed is a way government subsidizes me? How ludicrous is that position? By your logic, government not taxing my every breath is yet another way that the government subsidizes me.... Does that even make sense???
 



Government allowing corporations to keep their money as a way to save me money is not a subsidy. Is the default position that EVERYTHING SHOULD BE TAXED and for every activity and dollar not taxed is a way government subsidizes me? How ludicrous is that position? By your logic, government not taxing my every breath is yet another way that the government subsidizes me.... Does that even make sense???

It isn't my logic. You are a moron and the entire economic community disagrees with you. But hey, you home grown stupid shit has worked for you so far hasn't? I mean that Ford Taurus you sport arund town in testifies to the credibility and power of your ideas doesn't it?
 



It isn't my logic. You are a moron and the entire economic community disagrees with you. But hey, you home grown stupid shit has worked for you so far hasn't? I mean that Ford Taurus you sport arund town in testifies to the credibility and power of your ideas doesn't it?

It is your position that everything government doesn't tax is equivalent to a subsidy?
I am sitting on my couch typing. Government could be collecting taxes on this activity and because they aren't, that is lost revenue which should be going to the government and as such is a subsidy.

Wow... It never ends.
 



It is your position that everything government doesn't tax is equivalent to a subsidy?
I am sitting on my couch typing. Government could be collecting taxes on this activity and because they aren't, that is lost revenue which should be going to the government and as such is a subsidy.

Wow... It never ends.

It's not mine opinion but you can set there and stew in your ignorance and convince yourself that you are right by making up silly straw man arguments all day but the facts are that everyone competent in the subject disagrees with you. You try and bring it back to me but it is the experts that say that your one dumb r3dn3ck muther fucker!

hahahahaah

"If you walk out, on your own, and attempt to give your friendly neighborhood health insurer a dollar, you're taxed on that dollar. If your employer gives the health insurer that dollar on your behalf, that dollar is not taxed. As a result, getting health insurance through your employer became -- and remains -- a much better deal than purchasing it with your wages."

"The third reason is that the subsidy -- and that's what this is, a subsidy to employers who offer health care -- is very big, and quite hidden. In March 2007, the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that ending all employer-related tax breaks for health care would raise $1.23 trillion between 2009 and 2012. That's more than $300 billion a year. That's much more than you'd need to pay for health care."

"But the importance of the employer tax exclusion is simple enough: The hinge question in health care reform is "where do you get the money?" And the main -- and most controversial -- pot of money in health care reform comes from the employer tax exclusion."

T"he first is that it's regressive. This is intuitive enough: The people who enjoy the tax break are employed. The people who enjoy the biggest tax break have employers buying them extremely comprehensive health benefits. Both types of people tend to be richer than people who are unemployed."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...inners_th.html

"Tax Subsidies to Employer-Provided Health Insurance

NBER Working Paper No. 5147 (Also Reprint No. r2060)
Issued in June 1996
NBER Program(s): AG HC PE

Jonathan Gruber, James Poterba

This paper investigates the current tax subsidy to employer- provided health insurance, and presents new evidence on the economic effects of various tax reforms."

"The net tax subsidy to employer-provided insurance is substantial, with tax factors generating an average reduction of approximately thirty percent in the price of this insurance."

http://www.nber.org/papers/w5147

National Bureau of Economic Research

The NBER is the largest economics research organization in the United States.[2] Many of the American winners of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences were NBER Research Associates. Many of the Chairmen of the Council of Economic Advisers have also been NBER Research Associates, including the former NBER President and Harvard Professor, Martin Feldstein.

The NBER's current President and CEO is Professor James M. Poterba of MIT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bureau_of_Economic_Research

Um, Dr Poterba wrote the paper cited above that studies the tax subsidies that you get. He is the president of EBER. I can now see the reason why you have to hide away in some low rent southern city and flog pharma. You couldn't get a real education because you can't read and interpret anything more than a detail sheet written for you by someone else.
 



It's not mine opinion but you can set there and stew in your ignorance and convince yourself that you are right by making up silly straw man arguments all day but the facts are that everyone competent in the subject disagrees with you. You try and bring it back to me but it is the experts that say that your one dumb r3dn3ck muther fucker!

hahahahaah

"If you walk out, on your own, and attempt to give your friendly neighborhood health insurer a dollar, you're taxed on that dollar. If your employer gives the health insurer that dollar on your behalf, that dollar is not taxed. As a result, getting health insurance through your employer became -- and remains -- a much better deal than purchasing it with your wages."

"The third reason is that the subsidy -- and that's what this is, a subsidy to employers who offer health care -- is very big, and quite hidden. In March 2007, the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that ending all employer-related tax breaks for health care would raise $1.23 trillion between 2009 and 2012. That's more than $300 billion a year. That's much more than you'd need to pay for health care."

"But the importance of the employer tax exclusion is simple enough: The hinge question in health care reform is "where do you get the money?" And the main -- and most controversial -- pot of money in health care reform comes from the employer tax exclusion."

T"he first is that it's regressive. This is intuitive enough: The people who enjoy the tax break are employed. The people who enjoy the biggest tax break have employers buying them extremely comprehensive health benefits. Both types of people tend to be richer than people who are unemployed."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...inners_th.html

"Tax Subsidies to Employer-Provided Health Insurance

NBER Working Paper No. 5147 (Also Reprint No. r2060)
Issued in June 1996
NBER Program(s): AG HC PE

Jonathan Gruber, James Poterba

This paper investigates the current tax subsidy to employer- provided health insurance, and presents new evidence on the economic effects of various tax reforms."

"The net tax subsidy to employer-provided insurance is substantial, with tax factors generating an average reduction of approximately thirty percent in the price of this insurance."

http://www.nber.org/papers/w5147

National Bureau of Economic Research

The NBER is the largest economics research organization in the United States.[2] Many of the American winners of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences were NBER Research Associates. Many of the Chairmen of the Council of Economic Advisers have also been NBER Research Associates, including the former NBER President and Harvard Professor, Martin Feldstein.

The NBER's current President and CEO is Professor James M. Poterba of MIT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bureau_of_Economic_Research

Um, Dr Poterba wrote the paper cited above that studies the tax subsidies that you get. He is the president of EBER. I can now see the reason why you have to hide away in some low rent southern city and flog pharma. You couldn't get a real education because you can't read and interpret anything more than a detail sheet written for you by someone else.

"Experts" can and will say anything. You need look no further than the "scientists" who's man-made global warming predictions are disproven almost daily.

Now look in the mirror, use logic and try to defend your ludicrous position. How is government giving me a tax-break the same as government giving you an EBT card filled with "free money" that you didn't earn?
 



"You couldn't get a real education because you can't read and interpret anything more than a detail sheet written for you by someone else."

M/F'er all you do is cut-n-paste, never a thought of your own and all I do is respond with logic and reason. BTW, you can't and won't ever explain how government giving money to someone who hasn't earned it is the same as someone being allowed to keep more of the money they have earned.