PharmD's are not doctors!

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Good discussion here. I am a former drug rep who is now a nurse with a DNAP...Doctorate of Nurse Anesthesia Practice. When I'm getting ready to prepare a patient for sedation I never tell them I'm the doctor. I reserve that for the medical doctors on the floor. If I'm in class lecturing to students at that point I'll allow them to call me doctor but I still prefer to just be called by my first name. There are nurses out there who have doctorates who let patients call them Dr. That is their right although I believe a bit confusing to patients.
 




Anonymous said:
Good discussion here. I am a former drug rep who is now a nurse with a DNAP...Doctorate of Nurse Anesthesia Practice. When I'm getting ready to prepare a patient for sedation I never tell them I'm the doctor. I reserve that for the medical doctors on the floor. If I'm in class lecturing to students at that point I'll allow them to call me doctor but I still prefer to just be called by my first name. There are nurses out there who have doctorates who let patients call them Dr. That is their right although I believe a bit confusing to patients.
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You earned your degree and should be using your title...you had more schooling than the local chiropractor or podiatrist. My guess is that you are a female DNAP and that is why you feel this need to not use your title.

as of 2015 all NPs will be required to have a DNP
 




Only two type of "doctors" exist - MDs and PhDs.

The rest are posers. Plain and simple. Pill pusher, back cracker, or nurse - regardless of what training you get, your ARE NOT A DOCTOR!!!

Why can't people get that fact into their thick heads!!??
 




Anonymous said:
This is all rubbish. I am a PharmD and it is NO better than a pharmacist with a diploma added to the RPh!!

The ONLY reason that the industry wants PharmD's in this role is SIMPLY because the PharmD's have got into MSL positions of power..and they are MANDATING from HR to HIRE PharmD's...THATS IT FOLKS!!!!

Patient care if taken care of by PHYSICIANS and NURSES..PERIOD
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Best quote EVER!!!
 




Anonymous said:
Sorry to cross post but this was off topic in the original thread and belongs here:

Why is it a PharmD instead of a PharmMS? Last time I checked when you add a year or two to a bachelors degree it is a masters not a doctorate. Sure when it was first developed there was suppost to be a research component (again like a masters thesis not a doctoral disertation). But most PharmD programs have done away with the research piece if they even had it.

Just curious. There was a good article on this in the Chronicles of Higher Ed:

http://chronicle.com/free/v53/i42/42a01001.htm
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This is a very well timed and written article. Why the rush to have all of these "doctoral" programs in clinical professional practice? I agree this will be of immense confusion to patients, especially as PTs, OTs, and NPs begin to call themselves "doctor" or have the doctoral title on business cards. The biggest part of the problem is that patients in western countries, especially the US, have culturally (and I stress "culturally") identified "Doctor" predominantly as Doctors of Medicine (MD), although the title is actually not at all exclusive to them, especially since most MD programs also don't have a specified research component to them (an exception would be the combined MD/PhD programs) either.

So it comes down to knowledge and education. Are the educational and knowledge requirements for these new "doctoral" programs so different and time demanding as to NEED the doctoral title? Is the body of knowledge that is expected of new PTs or OTs for these degrees that much more ?? As it is....with all Pharmacy programs going to the PharmD degree in recent years and with "distance education" PharmD degrees being made available, even many of my PharmD colleagues lament the fact that these programs are being "dumbed down". So...to what end do we AWARD this degree then????????

My concern is that long term, the title "doctor" will become bastardized and meaningless within the health care profession. Just look at what chiropractors have done by calling themselves "chiropractic physicians" and claiming to be "primary care physicians"......totally obfuscates the landscape.
 




Anonymous said:
Only two type of "doctors" exist - MDs and PhDs.

The rest are posers. Plain and simple. Pill pusher, back cracker, or nurse - regardless of what training you get, your ARE NOT A DOCTOR!!!

Why can't people get that fact into their thick heads!!??
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Glad you speak with such nonexistent authority on the matter. The MD degree ranks below a Master's degree, so if in fact PharmDs are nothing more than master's degrees, they would have higher degrees than the MDs.

Stop smoking the crack pipe before you post.
 




Anonymous said:
Glad you speak with such nonexistent authority on the matter. The MD degree ranks below a Master's degree, so if in fact PharmDs are nothing more than master's degrees, they would have higher degrees than the MDs.

Stop smoking the crack pipe before you post.
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Sorry angry pill pusher. I could care less about a "web site ranking". The fact of the matter is a Medical docotr is held as the highest standard of formalized education.

Go back to Walgreens, PDR boy.
 




Who really cares!! The only time this has been an issue with me is when I cant even get an interview because I graduated years ago with a BS Pharmacy and some narrow minded HR types can't understand that 20 years of experience could be considered tacit knowledge.

In the end, probably wouldn't want to work with a company that is so narrow minded anyways

So, start worrying about something that matters.
 




Anonymous said:
Sorry angry pill pusher. I could care less about a "web site ranking". The fact of the matter is a Medical docotr is held as the highest standard of formalized education.

Go back to Walgreens, PDR boy.
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Web site ranking? Good God, you are stupid...you can't even spell doctor let alone know what the rank or degree really means.

Go back to pushing samples and delivering lunch.
 




It is interesting that this professional doctorate is just a US issue. PharmDs don't exist in Europe or in Canada. Just bachelors of pharmacy. Also interesting that in Europe they routinely use Dr. to refer to both MDs or PhDs. Unless the PhD or MD is also a University Professor and then they use the title that is even more esteemed than doctor "Professor."
 




Anonymous said:
It is interesting that this professional doctorate is just a US issue. PharmDs don't exist in Europe or in Canada. Just bachelors of pharmacy. Also interesting that in Europe they routinely use Dr. to refer to both MDs or PhDs. Unless the PhD or MD is also a University Professor and then they use the title that is even more esteemed than doctor "Professor."
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Also, the title of Mr. is used in the United Kingdom to address a surgeon, for instance, Mr John Smith is referred to as such. So whats the big deal with the word Doctor???
 




CRNA, DNP here....I'm actually a guy that prefers to be called by my first name...not doctor. The professional organization I belong to AANA...just ratified a proposal for all CRNAs entering practice to have a doctorate by 2025. I'm actually against that ratification but that is another story.

Yes, I have a doctorate. Yes PharmDs and some NPs have a doctorate. I still believe if you keep the patient's best interest at heart you will let the MD be the Dr in the hospital. I can be a Dr to my peers, my friends etc but I don't need the ego boost of confusing a patient by telling them I am a doctor.
 




Anonymous said:
It is interesting that this professional doctorate is just a US issue. PharmDs don't exist in Europe or in Canada. Just bachelors of pharmacy. Also interesting that in Europe they routinely use Dr. to refer to both MDs or PhDs. Unless the PhD or MD is also a University Professor and then they use the title that is even more esteemed than doctor "Professor."
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PharmD's do exist in Europe. A number of European schools started conferring the PharmD in response to American schools to keep pace. So far, the Canadians have not, but it is just a matter of time given the level of cooperation between the Canadian and US pharmacy school accreditation agencies.

In some countries like Italy and Brazil, pharmacists are called by their doctoral titles (if they have them) and have independent prescribing authority for different types of minor illnesses.
 








In some countries like Italy and Brazil, pharmacists are called by their doctoral titles (if they have them) and have independent prescribing authority for different types of minor illnesses.[/QUOTE]

Yup.....and they make the equivalent of $30K /year. And M.D.'s only make $110K/yr
 




Is there any clinical difference in the US between what a RPh and a PharmD can do? How about in Academics? What I don't get is the PharmDs who discriminate against RPhs and folks with "just" masters degrees in MSL and other industry jobs. As if a PharmD and a masters degree aren't the same thing.

I guess since it's PharmDs who run all the MSL programs they can pick and choose who they want.
 




Anonymous said:
Is there any clinical difference in the US between what a RPh and a PharmD can do? How about in Academics? What I don't get is the PharmDs who discriminate against RPhs and folks with "just" masters degrees in MSL and other industry jobs. As if a PharmD and a masters degree aren't the same thing.

I guess since it's PharmDs who run all the MSL programs they can pick and choose who they want.
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Bottom line YES...the PharmD's finnaly have found a niche..a high paying MSL role with little to do, sit at home on the computer and rake in the big bucks while being snot noses....
 




I'm a PA, and have my doctorate in my masters in medical science, MMS, and my doctorate, PhD, and am in the pharmaceutical industry, but when interacting with physicians I don't expect them to call me doctor.

In reference to one of the above questions, I think the difference from the RPh and the Pharm D is that the later gets a year of clinical, but they may also get more?

I've thought about switching over to the MSL career, but don't know if I'd like all of the traveling involved. Any input from experienced MLS who have been on both sides of the pharmaceutical industry?
 




Anonymous said:
I'm a PA, and have my doctorate in my masters in medical science, MMS, and my doctorate, PhD, and am in the pharmaceutical industry, but when interacting with physicians I don't expect them to call me doctor.

In reference to one of the above questions, I think the difference from the RPh and the Pharm D is that the later gets a year of clinical, but they may also get more?

I've thought about switching over to the MSL career, but don't know if I'd like all of the traveling involved. Any input from experienced MLS who have been on both sides of the pharmaceutical industry?
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You would need to ask yourself if you will be challenged enough. The current trend appears to hire people with as many qualifications as possible to stave off any investigation by the OIG arm of the FDA. Traveling is definitely a problem in this job and you have to factor that in, in a big way.
No clinical or PharmD experience or qualifications are really required in this job however. The ability to build on relationships, know the science, organize your time and manage your career are the necessary qualifications. Hope this helps. I have a PharmD by the way.
 




Travel is a little of a catch 22. While all of these jobs require some travel you get to choose to join a large MSL team or a small MSL team. A large team will have much smaller territories and therefore much less travel coming home pretty much every night unless you have a national or regional meeting. The downside is that the type of docs that you interact with will be local rather than national thought leaders. The smaller the territory the less big name thought leaders and the less stimulating the day to day discussions. The flip side is a small team only calling on the top thought leaders in the field. This is very exciting and rewarding and you have daily discussions about cutting edge science, but the territories can be huge and therefore require a lot of overnight travel.
 




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