Maternity Leave Questions

[Anonymous]

When there are less women in the workforce, they will log fewer hours, nimrod. The data also does not address job level, nor does it address an industry that is increasingly female such as the pharmaceutical industry

 

[Anonymous]

When there are less women in the workforce, they will log fewer hours, nimrod. The data also does not address job level, nor does it address an industry that is increasingly female such as the pharmaceutical industry

These are averages.... you do understand how averages work, right???
Either way, please continue to ignore well-known and understood facts. It is NO secret that women have more disruptions in their employment. And it is certainly NO secret that they miss more work than men.

So answer this question:
Just try to think logically.... if women can be as productive as men despite all the time they take-off and an employer could hire them for less money than men, WHY would any employer EVER hire a man? An ALL-FEMALE work-force would have such an advantage that no other company could compete.

 

[Anonymous]

These are averages.... you do understand how averages work, right???
Either way, please continue to ignore well-known and understood facts. It is NO secret that women have more disruptions in their employment. And it is certainly NO secret that they miss more work than men.

So answer this question:
Just try to think logically.... if women can be as productive as men despite all the time they take-off and an employer could hire them for less money than men, WHY would any employer EVER hire a man? An ALL-FEMALE work-force would have such an advantage that no other company could compete.

I have given you the facts, now its time for you to produce some facts and answer my questions. If women can be as productive as men despite all the time they take-off and an employer could hire them for less money than men, WHY would any employer EVER hire a man? And where is your proof that somehow Novartis has unfairly underpaid women? Don't give me anectodal stories, I want long-term, factual data... like that which I provided.

 

[Anonymous]

God you are an idiot. Is this your only argument. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. Actually, yes, WNBA players should be paid the same as NBA players. Why shouldn't they? You keep on showing your bias and belief that men are better than women. I will state the difference again very simply. Women are the caregivers biologically for their children. This makes them a special group. This does not make them a group that should be paid less, because they are equally skilled as men in performing their job. As others and you have stated, pay is based on productivity. As I have stated, over and over, many women may be just as productive as their male counterparts during their shorter work year based on many factors, including intelligence, skill, work ethic etc...

Now, as I have stated over and over again, you said time off should be different. Fine, I still don't hear you arguing that injured, disabled, sick or any other time off should change based on the fact that these people are out for a long period of time. I ask again, why shouldn't these people be paid less? WHY? They are disrupting productivity and getting full time pay for a period of time, just like women on maternity. What is the difference? Answer that question. When you get on here and argue about equality and bitch over and over, then be prepared to discuss everyone. If you can honestly say that all of these groups of people should be paid less based on your same tired argument of missed work = less pay, then I give up...you truly have shit for brains.

Oh, and women have been closing the pay gap every year. Look it up. Soon, once all the sexist dips die or retire, women will close it completely. Women have been paid less historically because of dumb asses like yourself who believe the crap they are shoveling, that men are better than women. Get a clue and a reality check. THOSE ARE THE FACTS. You are a dying breed. Thank the Lord.

One more thing, Maternity is derived from the Latin word for mother. Let me know when you become a mother and you can have all the time off you deserve. Better yet, break a leg and you can take 12 weeks off paid. How does that sound?

Now that I have destroyed your arguement with facts, on a sidenote I wanted to address your comments regarding the WNBA... "Actually, yes, WNBA players should be paid the same as NBA players." You must have ABSOLUTELY ZERO UNDERSTANDING of how the free-market system works. The WNBA brings in a fraction of the money that the NBA produces. If even one player in the WNBA were to make a salary like LeBron or Kobe or whoever you like... the WNBA would go BROKE. It has not the financial means to support your misguided ideas of equality in ANY WAY!!?!?!? At some point you MUST acknowledge FACTS and REALITY.

 

[Anonymous]

Now that I have destroyed your arguement with facts, on a sidenote I wanted to address your comments regarding the WNBA... "Actually, yes, WNBA players should be paid the same as NBA players." You must have ABSOLUTELY ZERO UNDERSTANDING of how the free-market system works. The WNBA brings in a fraction of the money that the NBA produces. If even one player in the WNBA were to make a salary like LeBron or Kobe or whoever you like... the WNBA would go BROKE. It has not the financial means to support your misguided ideas of equality in ANY WAY!!?!?!? At some point you MUST acknowledge FACTS and REALITY.

Keep on believing your own lies. You think what you have posted are facts. The FACT still remains that women continue to close the pay gap every year. You use facts to try and prove your sexist beliefs. The facts are the facts as you see them because unfortunately there are still many sexist men in power that set these rules and have supported inequality in the work force for several generations. We are talking simple history here. For generations women were considered second class citizens. They couldn't work, vote or have any rights whatsoever. So, as we have evolved over the years, the good people of this world have tried to put men and women on an equal playing field as best as possible. Yeah, are their inherent differences, absolutely. However, these differences brought about new rules and new facts that help women strive for equality, but also still have certain benefits that are specific for them - MATERNITY!!

Your example of the WNBA holds no water because yes you are right, they don't produce the same revenue as the NBA, but they should be paid statistically the same level of salary based on those revenues. So, nice try, horrible example to try and pin me to the wall with. We are talking about the pharma industry and other industries that are not even in the same league as the NBA. You are comparing apples to oranges. Most corporations do not make a majority of their money on sponsorship, marketing and ticket sales in order to pay their employees. They produce a product or service, sell it and then pay their employees accordingly. So, in this "reality" as you would call it, men and women contribute equally skill-wise to those corporate revenues and thus should be paid equally...

Now, Mr. smarty pants, you still continue to ignore my simple question. Why shouldn't everyone who is injured, sick or is out on long term disability be paid less than the rest of us? You state over and over again that women disrupt productivity more and are more prone to take time off than men. Well, the above groups of people also have the same tendency. Most of these people have repeat leaves of absence, have repeat injuries or illnesses which cause extended and repeated time off which disrupts productivity. Again, why would they be paid the same as us? So FACT MAN, you point out the difference here and when you have some cold hard facts as to why women who take time for maternity and the above mentioned groups are SOOOOOOOOO different in their disruption of productivity, you can enlighten me. Let me give you some FACTS about they types of procedures that women undergo while giving birth and the types of problems that do occur -

Over 1/3 of women give birth via a cesarean. This procedure takes at least 6 weeks to recover from to even get back to functional.

Women that give birth vaginally tear most of the time and require several stitches in a most uncomfortable area. Let's put some stitches in your sac and see how soon you want to return to work.

Emotional instability caused by severely fluctuating hormone levels and the possibility of depression is very common especially in the first several weeks postpartum, but can occur in the first 3 months. Some of these cases escalate to severe and require medication or therapy.

Here are some other risks that occur after giving birth - hemorrhage, endometritus, cardiomyopathy and thyroiditis.

Problems with breastfeeding/feeding in general can occur and require time and patience to correct in order for the baby to grow and thrive. Jaundice babies is common and requires treatment, among other complications.

SHALL I CONTINUE?...I stated these FACTS because I know you are going to argue that giving birth isn't the same as being sick or having an injury or surgery. Well, I hate to break it to you, but they are very similar. I know the facts here because I am a biology major and I am a parent. So, I will be a little kid and repeat your bullshit line of "now that I have destroyed your argument with facts" why don't you check what reality you are living in?

All you can do is look shit up on the internet, you truly have no "real world" experience in either the biology or being a parent. So I say this, why should any of us continue to listen to your crap, when in reality you know absolutely nothing about what you are saying? All you can do is hold onto the old sexist way things have been done over past generations. They seem right to you and some of the facts still support your sexist arguments. However, you are too blind to see that the majority of people have evolved and the world has changed. You want to pin one group (women) to the wall, but are unwilling to say the same things about other groups of people (injured, sick or LTD), because in your mind women are below everyone else and do not deserve the same benefits as the other mentioned groups that take the same time off and interrupt productivity in the same way. So, until you can bring some "real world" expertise to the table, I really do not care what you have to say.

By the way, I heard the WNBA is looking for some whiny men to join their ranks. I think you should enlist.

 

[Anonymous]

Wow.... so you have resorted to name-calling again, how brilliant. Anyway, your examples of missing work based on illness or injury is NOT unique to any one gender. Pregnancy, maternity leave and completely leaving the workforce is. Just take off your blinders for one second and allow yourself to be in the shoes of an employer. Remove gender from the equation and call them X and Y. Both X and Y are productive, smart, hard-working and all the things that an employer would want. However, X is more likely to miss work and take multiple extensive leaves from work. After spending thousands of dollars to train X, statistically X is more likely to quit working all-together... Y has no such statistical inclination. As an employer, who would you pay more? As an employer, who would you be more inclined to hire?

It is absolutley astounding that you think that women can be both as productive as men as well as taking off more work-time as men. That concept in and of itself is sexist. You are suggesting that somehow women are really more productive than men because they can get as much done as men in a shorter period of time.... ridiculous. Just try to think logically.... if women can be as productive as men despite all the time they take-off and an employer could hire them for less money than men, WHY would any employer EVER hire a man? An ALL-FEMALE work-force would have such an advantage that no other company could compete.
This has NEVER happened.... guess why??? Because your entire concept is a COMPLETE FARSE. You are guilty of spreading and accepted LIE which is based on false-assumptions and untruths.

I am saying the possibility exists that some pregnant women may actually be more productive than some of their lazy male counterparts, just like some men who take LTD may actually be more productive than some women who work a full year. It is not cut and dry and that is why benefits are not cut and dry. We don't know for sure who is more productive based on work time alone, therefore, you can not say that women should be paid less based on that time or that a man that leaves on LTD should be paid less because of his time off. Man you are thick. Here is one for you - Men are at way more of a risk to develop a hernia and therefore be out an extended period of time for surgery and recovery than women. This leads to missed time at work and less productivity. Should men be paid less than women because of this? BTW, add that to the list of pregnancy issues, women are at high risk for hernia after giving birth, hahaha. I totally forgot about that.

Oh and benefits have never been about gender, why should they now? They are based on situations. Are you going to get mad at someone who has cancer and has to leave work for an extended period of time? Are you going to sue because the person with cancer gets the same pay, but needs 3 months off for chemo that you don't get? Are you going to tell the cancer patient that they deserve less pay because they are less productive and will probably leave work altogether? Why should a woman be held to a different standard? Pregnancy and giving birth is a unique situation to her, just like having cancer is unique to the cancer patient. It just so happens that pregnancy is a situation that only women find themselves in, just like cancer patients. One is good and one is bad. And don't even try to say, "women choose to get pregnant, people don't choose to get cancer". Well, you might want to thank your mom for choosing to get pregnant then, or else you would not be here. Most cancers are a result of bad choices - Smoking, sedentary lifestyle, poor diet, too much sun, alcoholism and so on...Notice I did not say all, just like not all pregnancy's are chosen.

So, based on your logic, as an employer why would I hire a man that smokes and is overweight?? He'll probably be less productive, cost me more money over time in health benefits due to hospitalizations from a heart attack or cancer than my pregnant woman employee. Oh yeah, your question of why wouldn't all companies hire just women? Hmmmm that is a tough one. Let's see, oh I know. Because then that would be reverse discrimination.
You can't turn someone away from a job based on their weight or smoking habits can you...legally?? So, the same has to go for women. You can't turn a woman away from a job or pay her less based on the possibility that she may get pregnant and leave work for a period of time. Just like the overweight smoker who chooses to be the way he is. Can't pay him less because he may have a heart attack or fall down the stairs on the job putting him out of work as well. It is not about gender, it is about situations. You simply can not distinguish between the two. Whether it is women, men, obese, smokers, disabled, race, religion or whatever, you can not simply say one group deserves more or less money based on that fact.

 

[Anonymous]

I am saying the possibility exists that some pregnant women may actually be more productive than some of their lazy male counterparts, just like some men who take LTD may actually be more productive than some women who work a full year. It is not cut and dry and that is why benefits are not cut and dry. We don't know for sure who is more productive based on work time alone, therefore, you can not say that women should be paid less based on that time or that a man that leaves on LTD should be paid less because of his time off. Man you are thick. Here is one for you - Men are at way more of a risk to develop a hernia and therefore be out an extended period of time for surgery and recovery than women. This leads to missed time at work and less productivity. Should men be paid less than women because of this? BTW, add that to the list of pregnancy issues, women are at high risk for hernia after giving birth, hahaha. I totally forgot about that.

Oh and benefits have never been about gender, why should they now? They are based on situations. Are you going to get mad at someone who has cancer and has to leave work for an extended period of time? Are you going to sue because the person with cancer gets the same pay, but needs 3 months off for chemo that you don't get? Are you going to tell the cancer patient that they deserve less pay because they are less productive and will probably leave work altogether? Why should a woman be held to a different standard? Pregnancy and giving birth is a unique situation to her, just like having cancer is unique to the cancer patient. It just so happens that pregnancy is a situation that only women find themselves in, just like cancer patients. One is good and one is bad. And don't even try to say, "women choose to get pregnant, people don't choose to get cancer". Well, you might want to thank your mom for choosing to get pregnant then, or else you would not be here. Most cancers are a result of bad choices - Smoking, sedentary lifestyle, poor diet, too much sun, alcoholism and so on...Notice I did not say all, just like not all pregnancy's are chosen.

So, based on your logic, as an employer why would I hire a man that smokes and is overweight?? He'll probably be less productive, cost me more money over time in health benefits due to hospitalizations from a heart attack or cancer than my pregnant woman employee. Oh yeah, your question of why wouldn't all companies hire just women? Hmmmm that is a tough one. Let's see, oh I know. Because then that would be reverse discrimination.
You can't turn someone away from a job based on their weight or smoking habits can you...legally?? So, the same has to go for women. You can't turn a woman away from a job or pay her less based on the possibility that she may get pregnant and leave work for a period of time. Just like the overweight smoker who chooses to be the way he is. Can't pay him less because he may have a heart attack or fall down the stairs on the job putting him out of work as well. It is not about gender, it is about situations. You simply can not distinguish between the two. Whether it is women, men, obese, smokers, disabled, race, religion or whatever, you can not simply say one group deserves more or less money based on that fact.

Your examples are ABSURD..... show me any evidence that men miss work more than women based on cancer, hernia, LTD, smoking, drinking or whatever. The examples you use are NOT gender specific. There is NO correlation between your examples and what I am talking about. Pregnancy is ONLY a FEMALE thing. Because of that, women will work less, disrupt business more and leave employment all together MORE than men. Those FACTS are NOT based on sexism, discrimination or anything else. Those FACTS are market realities. It is that reality that employers must take into account. I am sorry that you ASSUME that I am NOT a parent or that I am a sexist pig.... I am NOT. I am someone who doesn't name-call, lose my temper or pretend reality is something that it's not. Women can be everything and even MORE than men, but that doesn't mean that we must all turn our back to the truth about pregnancy, maternity-leave and employment. Sorry, but your arguement will NOT make me ignore the TRUTH.

 

[Anonymous]

Your examples are ABSURD..... show me any evidence that men miss work more than women based on cancer, hernia, LTD, smoking, drinking or whatever. The examples you use are NOT gender specific. There is NO correlation between your examples and what I am talking about. Pregnancy is ONLY a FEMALE thing. Because of that, women will work less, disrupt business more and leave employment all together MORE than men. Those FACTS are NOT based on sexism, discrimination or anything else. Those FACTS are market realities. It is that reality that employers must take into account. I am sorry that you ASSUME that I am NOT a parent or that I am a sexist pig.... I am NOT. I am someone who doesn't name-call, lose my temper or pretend reality is something that it's not. Women can be everything and even MORE than men, but that doesn't mean that we must all turn our back to the truth about pregnancy, maternity-leave and employment. Sorry, but your arguement will NOT make me ignore the TRUTH.

You keep saying I am losing my temper and name call, but all you can do is just keep ignoring the simple truths I keep stating. You say my examples are absurd, I think the fact that you believe that women actually miss more work than people on disability is absurd. You keep making this about gender and single out women as some special group that somehow deserves less than any other group, gender or not. A group of people are a group of people, it does not matter if they are male, female, black, white, sick or healthy. Each group deserves the same pay for doing the same job. I will say it again, your facts are incorrect. Many groups of people miss work just as much as women for other reasons. Just because those groups are not one gender does not dismiss the fact that they interrupt productivity just as much and it also does not mean they deserve more than a group that is made up of just women. You can keep ignoring the facts that other groups take as much time off, and since that makes both groups equal, your only basis that women deserve less money is because they are women, which is absurd and sexist. You also continue to ignore the biology. It can not be helped that women have children. It takes time for women to recover just like any other group out of work for whatever reason. You keep saying gender specific, gender specific. The benefits, I will say again, are situational, not gender based. Maternity is for "people" that are pregnant (a situation). Those people happen to be women. People that get sick (a situation), get LTD. Those people happen to be a mix of gender. Does one group deserve more than the other? Do women who choose not to have kids get maternity? No, they don't. Doesn't seem gender specific to me. If it were, all wome would get maternity whether they had children or not. Are women who are infertile complain that they don't get maternity or that their female counterparts that do have children should be paid less than themselves. Nope. Again, it is because maternity is not gender specific as you would say it is situational, like all benefits. When all is said and done, the basis for your argument is absurd and is directly correlated to the fact that women deserve less because as I have stated, it is a well known fact that LTD and other leave costs companies just as much as maternity. I don't have to look up the facts for you, you can do that yourself big boy. If companies were really suffering from all this time off due to maternity, no company would hire women and pay for their leave anyway. As I recall, every company I have worked for has maternity and pay their employees the same, male or female. Most companies do. In either case, you ignored (again) my biological facts regarding birth. If it makes you feel better, we can agree to call maternity LTD or sick leave. We can group the women with the rest of the sick, recovering, injured and other LTD folks. it sounds so absurd, but an absurd solution is all I can come up with to an absurd complaint. Did I use absurd enough for you?

 

[Anonymous]

I dig pregnant chicks due to the generous increase in breast size due to the production of milk from those blessed mammary glands.
They get very horny too & easy to lay since A) they can't get pregnant B) their husbands ingnore them.

 

[Anonymous]

You keep saying I am losing my temper and name call, but all you can do is just keep ignoring the simple truths I keep stating. You say my examples are absurd, I think the fact that you believe that women actually miss more work than people on disability is absurd. You keep making this about gender and single out women as some special group that somehow deserves less than any other group, gender or not. A group of people are a group of people, it does not matter if they are male, female, black, white, sick or healthy. Each group deserves the same pay for doing the same job. I will say it again, your facts are incorrect. Many groups of people miss work just as much as women for other reasons. Just because those groups are not one gender does not dismiss the fact that they interrupt productivity just as much and it also does not mean they deserve more than a group that is made up of just women. You can keep ignoring the facts that other groups take as much time off, and since that makes both groups equal, your only basis that women deserve less money is because they are women, which is absurd and sexist. You also continue to ignore the biology. It can not be helped that women have children. It takes time for women to recover just like any other group out of work for whatever reason. You keep saying gender specific, gender specific. The benefits, I will say again, are situational, not gender based. Maternity is for "people" that are pregnant (a situation). Those people happen to be women. People that get sick (a situation), get LTD. Those people happen to be a mix of gender. Does one group deserve more than the other? Do women who choose not to have kids get maternity? No, they don't. Doesn't seem gender specific to me. If it were, all wome would get maternity whether they had children or not. Are women who are infertile complain that they don't get maternity or that their female counterparts that do have children should be paid less than themselves. Nope. Again, it is because maternity is not gender specific as you would say it is situational, like all benefits. When all is said and done, the basis for your argument is absurd and is directly correlated to the fact that women deserve less because as I have stated, it is a well known fact that LTD and other leave costs companies just as much as maternity. I don't have to look up the facts for you, you can do that yourself big boy. If companies were really suffering from all this time off due to maternity, no company would hire women and pay for their leave anyway. As I recall, every company I have worked for has maternity and pay their employees the same, male or female. Most companies do. In either case, you ignored (again) my biological facts regarding birth. If it makes you feel better, we can agree to call maternity LTD or sick leave. We can group the women with the rest of the sick, recovering, injured and other LTD folks. it sounds so absurd, but an absurd solution is all I can come up with to an absurd complaint. Did I use absurd enough for you?

LTD impacts both men and women. Pregnancy does not. You act as though ONLY men miss work due to LTD. Women will miss work because of LTD in addition to pregnancy. That is a FACT. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, women on average work LESS than men. This is why they are paid less. You see when you work UNEQUALLY, you get paid UNEQUALLY.... makes perfect sense. Sorry that apparently you can't follow simple logic.

 

[Anonymous]

LTD impacts both men and women. Pregnancy does not. You act as though ONLY men miss work due to LTD. Women will miss work because of LTD in addition to pregnancy. That is a FACT. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, women on average work LESS than men. This is why they are paid less. You see when you work UNEQUALLY, you get paid UNEQUALLY.... makes perfect sense. Sorry that apparently you can't follow simple logic.

Really? Are you for real? So the same women who get pregnant and use maternity leave are also going to use LTD for other reasons? That is the only way women would actually be out of work more than men. You can not count both. There are two different groups. There are women who take maternity and women that use LTD for the same reasons other people take LTD. You can not simply add them together and say, look 1+1=2, therefore women are out more than men. Wow, you are much simpler minded then I thought.

Mr. Fact Man doesn't know how to interpret his own facts or actually know the facts in general. It is A FACT that in the U.S. 10% more men are on some sort of disability when compared to women. By your reasoning, men then should be paid less, because they are more likely to be on disability than women, miss work and disrupt productivity. What is your excuse now?

Why are companies losing lawsuits for equal pay for women? Simple answer. As you suggest, STATISTICALLY, women miss more work than men and are more prone to leave work altogether, therefore they should be paid less. OK. Simple case for the corporate lawyer. Present the data in court. As you can see, x, y and z women at ABC company miss more work and interrupt productivity, therefore affecting revenue. Therefore, we pay x, y and z women less to compensate for their missed time. They do not work equally therefore they do not get paid equally. WOW, this lawsuit should be turned over easily. OH BUT WAIT, most corporations that have these problems lose. I wonder why that is?? Because your argument, just like the corporations that lose these cases have no leg to stand on. If the statistics are so clear, the corporations would win every case. However, they are not. To boot, to try and pay women less or discriminate based on pregnancy is illegal.

When it comes down to it, you still believe your own lies and try to spin facts to support your misguided ideals. You also support breaking the law - ever hear of the pregnancy discrimination act??

 

[Anonymous]

Really? Are you for real? So the same women who get pregnant and use maternity leave are also going to use LTD for other reasons? That is the only way women would actually be out of work more than men. You can not count both. There are two different groups. There are women who take maternity and women that use LTD for the same reasons other people take LTD. You can not simply add them together and say, look 1+1=2, therefore women are out more than men. Wow, you are much simpler minded then I thought.

Mr. Fact Man doesn't know how to interpret his own facts or actually know the facts in general. It is A FACT that in the U.S. 10% more men are on some sort of disability when compared to women. By your reasoning, men then should be paid less, because they are more likely to be on disability than women, miss work and disrupt productivity. What is your excuse now?

Why are companies losing lawsuits for equal pay for women? Simple answer. As you suggest, STATISTICALLY, women miss more work than men and are more prone to leave work altogether, therefore they should be paid less. OK. Simple case for the corporate lawyer. Present the data in court. As you can see, x, y and z women at ABC company miss more work and interrupt productivity, therefore affecting revenue. Therefore, we pay x, y and z women less to compensate for their missed time. They do not work equally therefore they do not get paid equally. WOW, this lawsuit should be turned over easily. OH BUT WAIT, most corporations that have these problems lose. I wonder why that is?? Because your argument, just like the corporations that lose these cases have no leg to stand on. If the statistics are so clear, the corporations would win every case. However, they are not. To boot, to try and pay women less or discriminate based on pregnancy is illegal.

When it comes down to it, you still believe your own lies and try to spin facts to support your misguided ideals. You also support breaking the law - ever hear of the pregnancy discrimination act??

Why can't a woman who takes maternity leave also use STD or LTD for some other reason during her career?

I can't argue against the fact that corporations have been losing lawsuits based on the fallacy that women get less pay because of some form of discrimination.... that is true, however, it doesn't make it right. Just like you can't dispute my facts that women generally work less hours than men, will miss more work than men and ultimately will leave their employment all-together more than men. Show me the source that provides data on your claim that men miss 10% more work than women based on disability.

 

[Anonymous]

Really? Are you for real? So the same women who get pregnant and use maternity leave are also going to use LTD for other reasons? That is the only way women would actually be out of work more than men. You can not count both. There are two different groups. There are women who take maternity and women that use LTD for the same reasons other people take LTD. You can not simply add them together and say, look 1+1=2, therefore women are out more than men. Wow, you are much simpler minded then I thought.

Mr. Fact Man doesn't know how to interpret his own facts or actually know the facts in general. It is A FACT that in the U.S. 10% more men are on some sort of disability when compared to women. By your reasoning, men then should be paid less, because they are more likely to be on disability than women, miss work and disrupt productivity. What is your excuse now?

Why are companies losing lawsuits for equal pay for women? Simple answer. As you suggest, STATISTICALLY, women miss more work than men and are more prone to leave work altogether, therefore they should be paid less. OK. Simple case for the corporate lawyer. Present the data in court. As you can see, x, y and z women at ABC company miss more work and interrupt productivity, therefore affecting revenue. Therefore, we pay x, y and z women less to compensate for their missed time. They do not work equally therefore they do not get paid equally. WOW, this lawsuit should be turned over easily. OH BUT WAIT, most corporations that have these problems lose. I wonder why that is?? Because your argument, just like the corporations that lose these cases have no leg to stand on. If the statistics are so clear, the corporations would win every case. However, they are not. To boot, to try and pay women less or discriminate based on pregnancy is illegal.

When it comes down to it, you still believe your own lies and try to spin facts to support your misguided ideals. You also support breaking the law - ever hear of the pregnancy discrimination act??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paycheck_Fairness_Act
A 2007 Department of Labor study cautioned against overzealous interpretation of census and other wage data, suggesting that the wage gap between the sexes was not due to systematic discrimination:

Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.

 

[Anonymous]

I was on vacation and I can't believe this guy is still ranting about maternity leave. The only proof I have seen him offer is a list of hours with no breakdown of type of job, full or part time, etc. I suspect he spends all day in him mommies basement googling data to make his point, and then tries to offer it as "proof"

 

[Anonymous]

I was on vacation and I can't believe this guy is still ranting about maternity leave. The only proof I have seen him offer is a list of hours with no breakdown of type of job, full or part time, etc. I suspect he spends all day in him mommies basement googling data to make his point, and then tries to offer it as "proof"

I have offered data, proof, evidence and facts.... on what do you base your irrational thoughts and feelings? I guess it is TRUE... you can't fix stupid.

 

[Anonymous]

Why can't a woman who takes maternity leave also use STD or LTD for some other reason during her career?

I can't argue against the fact that corporations have been losing lawsuits based on the fallacy that women get less pay because of some form of discrimination.... that is true, however, it doesn't make it right. Just like you can't dispute my facts that women generally work less hours than men, will miss more work than men and ultimately will leave their employment all-together more than men. Show me the source that provides data on your claim that men miss 10% more work than women based on disability.

It is part of the U.S. Census data.

Maternity is a form of disability. It is a carveout meant to cover a unique circumstance. If you knew the facts as you claim, you would understand this.

Your attitude toward women becomes more apparent each time. Now you are saying that the law is wrong because women are winning lawsuits for unequal pay. Wow. Yeah, the legal system isn't perfect, but it is pretty damn good if you ask me. If legal disputes weren't handled fairly most of the time, as you suggest, we wouldn't have much of a legal system
now would we? If the data were so clear cut then those highly paid and skilled corporate lawyers would present the data, prove their case and win the trial. However, they are not winning. Logically, there are two reasons why. One, most corporate lawyers are incompetent or two, they just don't have good data to convince a judge or jury. I am pretty sure logically
speaking, it is not the first reason.

I also do not know how you can sit there and still claim that women miss more work, when it is clear through my facts that they do not, for any reason. Who is spreading lies?

It is a historical fact that women have been oppressed by men in power for years. To stay in power, men have manipulated rules and regulations to keep women from attaining equal rights, pay etc. Over the years, men have done everything to limit women including working the lowest level jobs, the menial jobs with little pay. When people figured out that was unfair, women started working higher level jobs. However, men in power want to remain in power, so women only could attain certain levels and were paid less as well. Presently, things are getting better. Women are fighting for equal opportunity and benefits and are winning. The pay gap still exists, but closes every year. Why is this happening? Women are standing up to what has been unfair for centuries, exposing corruption, greed and simply unfair treatment. This isn't wrong. Women want to be treated fairly and have the same opportunity as everyone else. Yet another reason women are winning the lawsuits. They are exposing historical discrimination and unfair treatment/pay.

If you were oppressed for generations, I would think you would want equal opportunity like every human being and would fight for it.

To answer your first question - I did not say women who take maternity could not take LTD. However, your argument was based on the fact that the same women who take maternity also take LTD at some point as well. In your mind this means that women take more time than men because men do not take maternity. This is wrong on the most basic mathematical level. Just because men and women both take LTD does not mean that you can add maternity into the equation and claim women work less. What if 10 men and 5 women are on LTD at some point. At the same time 4 women are on maternity. Overall, there are more men out than women on some sort of leave. Can you comprehend this simple example, or do you need me to spell it out in crayon? Just because women can take both maternity and LTD, does not automatically mean they miss more work than men for any reason.

I am actually becoming frustrated by how little you understand simple logic and simple math. I am starting to lose my patience because no matter how much data I throw your way and examples rooted in simple logic I present, you continue to ignore and dismiss because they do not compute for you or you simply can not accept the facts. In either case, I am done. You will not find me on this board again. I have wasted enough of my time trying to connect the dots for someone who doesn't understand our country's history, simple logic, simple math, statistics or reason. The data is out there and I will conclude by saying what I said a while back. You are in a super minority. Most of he country is not wrong and you are right. That would again just blow the very basics of statistics out the window. You are a dinosaur, now please just go extinct.

 

[Anonymous]

It is part of the U.S. Census data.

Maternity is a form of disability. It is a carveout meant to cover a unique circumstance. If you knew the facts as you claim, you would understand this.

Your attitude toward women becomes more apparent each time. Now you are saying that the law is wrong because women are winning lawsuits for unequal pay. Wow. Yeah, the legal system isn't perfect, but it is pretty damn good if you ask me. If legal disputes weren't handled fairly most of the time, as you suggest, we wouldn't have much of a legal system
now would we? If the data were so clear cut then those highly paid and skilled corporate lawyers would present the data, prove their case and win the trial. However, they are not winning. Logically, there are two reasons why. One, most corporate lawyers are incompetent or two, they just don't have good data to convince a judge or jury. I am pretty sure logically
speaking, it is not the first reason.

I also do not know how you can sit there and still claim that women miss more work, when it is clear through my facts that they do not, for any reason. Who is spreading lies?

It is a historical fact that women have been oppressed by men in power for years. To stay in power, men have manipulated rules and regulations to keep women from attaining equal rights, pay etc. Over the years, men have done everything to limit women including working the lowest level jobs, the menial jobs with little pay. When people figured out that was unfair, women started working higher level jobs. However, men in power want to remain in power, so women only could attain certain levels and were paid less as well. Presently, things are getting better. Women are fighting for equal opportunity and benefits and are winning. The pay gap still exists, but closes every year. Why is this happening? Women are standing up to what has been unfair for centuries, exposing corruption, greed and simply unfair treatment. This isn't wrong. Women want to be treated fairly and have the same opportunity as everyone else. Yet another reason women are winning the lawsuits. They are exposing historical discrimination and unfair treatment/pay.

If you were oppressed for generations, I would think you would want equal opportunity like every human being and would fight for it.

To answer your first question - I did not say women who take maternity could not take LTD. However, your argument was based on the fact that the same women who take maternity also take LTD at some point as well. In your mind this means that women take more time than men because men do not take maternity. This is wrong on the most basic mathematical level. Just because men and women both take LTD does not mean that you can add maternity into the equation and claim women work less. What if 10 men and 5 women are on LTD at some point. At the same time 4 women are on maternity. Overall, there are more men out than women on some sort of leave. Can you comprehend this simple example, or do you need me to spell it out in crayon? Just because women can take both maternity and LTD, does not automatically mean they miss more work than men for any reason.

I am actually becoming frustrated by how little you understand simple logic and simple math. I am starting to lose my patience because no matter how much data I throw your way and examples rooted in simple logic I present, you continue to ignore and dismiss because they do not compute for you or you simply can not accept the facts. In either case, I am done. You will not find me on this board again. I have wasted enough of my time trying to connect the dots for someone who doesn't understand our country's history, simple logic, simple math, statistics or reason. The data is out there and I will conclude by saying what I said a while back. You are in a super minority. Most of he country is not wrong and you are right. That would again just blow the very basics of statistics out the window. You are a dinosaur, now please just go extinct.

You have connected no dots and you continue to avoid citing ANY data to support your position. The data which I presented is CLEAR.... women generally work less than men. It is NOT arguable. It is in black and white on The US Labor and Statistics website. What reputable source have you linked to? The US Labor ans Statistics also clearly points out that NO SUCH SYSTEMIC discrimination exists like the examples that you describe. And as far as the US court system, Hmmmm..... where to start? Perhaps OJ or Casey Anthony or maybe the guy who sued McDonalds for millions because he didn't understand that coffee is hot. Our legal system is BROKEN.

Your fustration is obvioiusly derived from your own realization that your world-view is completely wrong and has been wrong apparently your entire life.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, you just proved how well when you interpret statistics when you refer to the "man" who was burned @ McDonalds. This definately indicates how much reliance we need to put in all the misogynist garbage you have spewed over the last how many weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

If this thread died a million years ago it would not have been soon enough.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, you just proved how well when you interpret statistics when you refer to the "man" who was burned @ McDonalds. This definately indicates how much reliance we need to put in all the misogynist garbage you have spewed over the last how many weeks.

You can name-call, but can you take a position and support it with facts? I bet NOT.