I along with everyone else is waiting for YOUR "rationale debate". All you have done is whine that women are getting more time off than you. When anyone has cited data to the contrary, you throw a tantrum. It is obvious you are not capable of rationale debate, or any debate at all since you can't stand anyone not agreeing with you. As the previous poster stated, you simply are in the minority on this issue.
You obviously deal in emotions and have very little regard for reality. You can discuss hypotheticals, you can name-call, but what you evidently can't/don't do is handle facts very well. When you are ready to have a rational debate rooted in facts, I'll be waiting.
The reality is that this world is ruled by emotion and most if not all things are directly influenced by them. So, yes, I do deal in emotions because that is what makes me human and not a cold emotionless robot. If people did not care or have the ability to empathize, the world would be much worse off than it is. You apparently can not see anything beyond the mere facts. You see things as cut and dry, no wiggle room, no exceptions - this is incredibly short sighted and close minded. However, I will come down to your level for a moment. You say people are all different. Fine. You feel they should be paid differently based on their ability to do a job. Fine. Women perform this job just as well as men and in some cases better. After reading many posts on this board, there are plenty of men who hardly work, but that is another point. So based on the ability to perform this job, women should be paid equally. Now - let's look at time off. Women get more time off after having a baby. Ok. Are women and men equal when it comes to giving birth? Well, last time I checked woken trump the men here. Based on the cold hard facts, women and men should not get the same time off for giving birth. Simple and factual - just what you asked for. Does that satisfy you cold heart? Oh and I apologize if my name calling caused you any pain. I thought you were emotionless.
Take your 26 weeks FMLA even if unpaid
this way you'll miss the layoffs
The reality is that this world is ruled by emotion and most if not all things are directly influenced by them. So, yes, I do deal in emotions because that is what makes me human and not a cold emotionless robot. If people did not care or have the ability to empathize, the world would be much worse off than it is. You apparently can not see anything beyond the mere facts. You see things as cut and dry, no wiggle room, no exceptions - this is incredibly short sighted and close minded. However, I will come down to your level for a moment. You say people are all different. Fine. You feel they should be paid differently based on their ability to do a job. Fine. Women perform this job just as well as men and in some cases better. After reading many posts on this board, there are plenty of men who hardly work, but that is another point. So based on the ability to perform this job, women should be paid equally. Now - let's look at time off. Women get more time off after having a baby. Ok. Are women and men equal when it comes to giving birth? Well, last time I checked woken trump the men here. Based on the cold hard facts, women and men should not get the same time off for giving birth. Simple and factual - just what you asked for. Does that satisfy you cold heart? Oh and I apologize if my name calling caused you any pain. I thought you were emotionless.
Policy #A-101-02 states if you squat in the blueberry field and complete delivery within six hours, you may rinse off the infant, recover the placenta for sale and take the rest of the day off.
Proceeds from placenta sale go to Novartis to offset health care costs incurred.
If you do not have a midwife present, you will receive a $500 gift card to Walmart.
Let me know when you are ready to have a rational debate. Your name-calling and inability to discuss facts is very telling. Is that how you deal with all the disagreements in your life?
Economic fact of life: Women are valuable workplace resources, and our economy would suffer gravely without them.
Biological fact of life: Women get pregnant.
Social fact of life: In our culture, women are the primary caregivers to babies and youngchildren.
Results of these intersecting facts: Maternity Leave.
You are correct, emotions are indeed a quality that makes us uniquely human.... but ALL humans SHOULD also have the ability to think and to apply reason and to utilize logic.
It is in this area that you fall short.... It's ok, most liberals usually do.
It is rather funny that you think I have fallen short with my reasoning and logic when I stated above very simply that if companies paid employees based soley on productivity, that many should be paid less than women who take maternity. I again would argue that women who take maternity may actually work harder in the 8 months they are working when compared to others who tool around during the work day that work a full 12 months. Again, we all know reps who don't work and contribute nothing. Why are thy paid the same as me or you? They are clearly less productive. This is a highly logical and reasonable situation. So, again I ask, why should women who take maternity leave receive a lower salary? If they are equally productive on the job for 8 months as a counterpart who works the whole year, why should she be paid less? The answer is, they shouldn't.
You keep attacking my examples and logical situations, but can not offer a reasonable answer to any of my questions. I presented very real scenarios in a couple of my posts, including the injury example. However, you again can not offer up a reason why that person should be paid differently. It is also funny that you think I am a liberal, haha. In most cases I am moderate. The problem with this country is that everyone is so bound and determined to be conservative or liberal that no one bends from their closed minded view of the world. It is your way or the highway. If people diagree with you, they are wrong. You are right no matter what. You are obviously sexist and truly believe that men are better than women or you would not have such a decided and concrete opinion. It strikes at your very core, the fact that a woman should be paid the same as you. You leave no room for biology or special circumstances. You offer no solution other than unequal pay.
Should a shorter basketball player be paid less because he can't dunk? Should a waitress be paid less because she has one arm? Should a gym teacher be laid less because he is overweight?
The answer to all of these is no. The basketball player could be a great 3 point shooter and be just as productive if not more than his tall dunking counterpart. The waitress might work twice as hard and think of ways to be more efficient than her waitress counterparts and thus turn over more tables. The gym teacher may be more knowledgeable about sports, skills and general education than his meathead counterpart. Again, I could go on and on. The point is that because the biology may differ it does not mean anyone should be paid differently based on that fact, which is what you suggest. Did I provide enough logical thinking for your closed mind?
Should WNBA players get paid as much as NBA players? If a woman can take off 12 weeks, 6 months or whatever for maternity leave and still be productive, why can't a man? You talk about hypotheticals.... I am talking about FACTS. Statistically, because of maternity leave and caring for children, women will miss more work than men and will more often will leave their jobs completely more than men and as a result will generally get paid less than men.
Why do you think women generally get paid differently than men? Is it some evil forces conspiring to keep them down?
God you are an idiot. Is this your only argument. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. Actually, yes, WNBA players should be paid the same as NBA players. Why shouldn't they? You keep on showing your bias and belief that men are better than women. I will state the difference again very simply. Women are the caregivers biologically for their children. This makes them a special group. This does not make them a group that should be paid less, because they are equally skilled as men in performing their job. As others and you have stated, pay is based on productivity. As I have stated, over and over, many women may be just as productive as their male counterparts during their shorter work year based on many factors, including intelligence, skill, work ethic etc...
Now, as I have stated over and over again, you said time off should be different. Fine, I still don't hear you arguing that injured, disabled, sick or any other time off should change based on the fact that these people are out for a long period of time. I ask again, why shouldn't these people be paid less? WHY? They are disrupting productivity and getting full time pay for a period of time, just like women on maternity. What is the difference? Answer that question. When you get on here and argue about equality and bitch over and over, then be prepared to discuss everyone. If you can honestly say that all of these groups of people should be paid less based on your same tired argument of missed work = less pay, then I give up...you truly have shit for brains.
Oh, and women have been closing the pay gap every year. Look it up. Soon, once all the sexist dips die or retire, women will close it completely. Women have been paid less historically because of dumb asses like yourself who believe the crap they are shoveling, that men are better than women. Get a clue and a reality check. THOSE ARE THE FACTS. You are a dying breed. Thank the Lord.
One more thing, Maternity is derived from the Latin word for mother. Let me know when you become a mother and you can have all the time off you deserve. Better yet, break a leg and you can take 12 weeks off paid. How does that sound?
Once again, we hear from the bitter misogynist!! Since you are so "up" on everything, I want you to give me the accurate statistics of the loss of (paid) time for Novartis vs STD for non-pregnancy events. You will be very surprised.
Agree with 55--what are the statistics since you claim to deal in facts?
"Nationally it is a fact"? Where does this come from? What was the industry? What was the level of the employees? How does this compare with the Pharmaceutical paradigm? What are the stats from Novartis? Until you can source all of the above, you are simply displaying your anger with women, and you have no evidence. As a manager, I can assure you that there is no evidence, ergo no "facts" no matter how hard you try to make them up.
