I had the BALLS to leave pharma!

[anonymous]

My transition story is in the making. Left over a month ago (after over 20 years) and am pursing other career opportunities (not sales). I will probably make less than I did in pharma, yet my pharma friends seem to be jealous that I had the balls to leave.

They make comments about how much they are making (I left a month ago, not 20 years ago) and how you can’t leave that kind of money. Meanwhile, they are all angry, depressed and having nervous breakdowns. I choose to save my sanity and leave but it seems mysery loves company. They are about to get dumped.

Be happy for people who take the initiative to have a more sane life. Too many haters in this industry.

Was there a point to your post?

 

[anonymous]

Huh

 

[anonymous]

Much to be learned from this thread.

1. Pharma sales no longer pays well.

2. It is clear to see that pharma sales is not a good job, when you consider the micromanagement and unrealistic expectations from companies.

3. The lack of leadership in the industry is weak. Yes men run the day.

4. You are not going to have development opportunities. This is just a money grab job with no future.

5. The lack of integrity in this industry is troubling, when you consider all the fines and penalties incurred in this industry, year after year.

6. Companies in pharma prefer its employees to lack critical thinking skills, and this is common across all corporations, not a big deal.

7. The most intelligent people on this planet are not working in this industry. Not even close. They mock this industry, and this the accurate.

 

[anonymous]

Much to be learned from this thread.

1. Pharma sales no longer pays well.

2. It is clear to see that pharma sales is not a good job, when you consider the micromanagement and unrealistic expectations from companies.

3. The lack of leadership in the industry is weak. Yes men run the day.

4. You are not going to have development opportunities. This is just a money grab job with no future.

5. The lack of integrity in this industry is troubling, when you consider all the fines and penalties incurred in this industry, year after year.

6. Companies in pharma prefer its employees to lack critical thinking skills, and this is common across all corporations, not a big deal.

7. The most intelligent people on this planet are not working in this industry. Not even close. They mock this industry, and this the accurate.

in response:

1. I make between 250-300k a year, so I disagree it doesn’t pay well. I also work my own schedule.
2. No job is perfect, most have micromanagement
3. 6 of my 7 bosses have been female, some good and some not - gender is irrelevant
4. I have been asked at least 4 times to move, develop in 20 years. Ton of opportunity if you will relocate.
5. Sounds to me prior to your termination your company had no integrity. In this day and age, many money grabbing lawyers and “victims” looking for a free buck.
6. You disparage Pharma, but then claim that’s common for you to encounter in other industries. Maybe your just an idiot.
7. Many intelligent people work in the industry from science to sales/marketing.

Quit being bitter because you couldn’t succeed in this industry. Many of us have had decades of success. Your post was nearly totally inaccurate and fake news.

 

[anonymous]

in response:

1. I make between 250-300k a year, so I disagree it doesn’t pay well. I also work my own schedule.
2. No job is perfect, most have micromanagement
3. 6 of my 7 bosses have been female, some good and some not - gender is irrelevant
4. I have been asked at least 4 times to move, develop in 20 years. Ton of opportunity if you will relocate.
5. Sounds to me prior to your termination your company had no integrity. In this day and age, many money grabbing lawyers and “victims” looking for a free buck.
6. You disparage Pharma, but then claim that’s common for you to encounter in other industries. Maybe your just an idiot.
7. Many intelligent people work in the industry from science to sales/marketing.

Quit being bitter because you couldn’t succeed in this industry. Many of us have had decades of success. Your post was nearly totally inaccurate and fake news.

Good for you. However, in this case, The Exception Proves the Rule. Your situation, and your views, represent a small minority in the industry today.

 

[anonymous]

in response:

1. I make between 250-300k a year, so I disagree it doesn’t pay well. I also work my own schedule.
2. No job is perfect, most have micromanagement
3. 6 of my 7 bosses have been female, some good and some not - gender is irrelevant
4. I have been asked at least 4 times to move, develop in 20 years. Ton of opportunity if you will relocate.
5. Sounds to me prior to your termination your company had no integrity. In this day and age, many money grabbing lawyers and “victims” looking for a free buck.
6. You disparage Pharma, but then claim that’s common for you to encounter in other industries. Maybe your just an idiot.
7. Many intelligent people work in the industry from science to sales/marketing.

Quit being bitter because you couldn’t succeed in this industry. Many of us have had decades of success. Your post was nearly totally inaccurate and fake news.

1. When you consider the taxes you pay, you really make 125-150 K. There are entrepreneurs that make more and play less taxes. Also, you are fooling yourself if you really think you make your own schedule. You have your big brother, aka Boss that you will always have over you in a corporate structure. Even the CEO is a tool to the Board.

2. No. Not all jobs have micromanagement. You just haven't explored other jobs because you lack critical thinking skills, and never got it into your head, that there are good jobs that allow you to explore your creativity and get paid well.

3. If you are man, and have a female manager, you have issues. Men should not put themselves in these positions, ever.

4. Relocating for a corporation is for losers. They don't care about you, and will leave you in a city with no job, if that is what works for them.

5. Companies don't have integrity, and never have. You are not protected.

6. Pharma is for idiots. Don't defend it. Ever.

7. No. There are not intelligent people in this industry. Smart people understand that this industry is about money, and not health.

Conclusion is that you are drinking some strong Cool Aid. Step back, and take a deep breath. Allow your mind to take this all in, young soul. I will be waiting for you at the Evolution Bell Curve.

 

[anonymous]

1. When you consider the taxes you pay, you really make 125-150 K. There are entrepreneurs that make more and play less taxes. Also, you are fooling yourself if you really think you make your own schedule. You have your big brother, aka Boss that you will always have over you in a corporate structure. Even the CEO is a tool to the Board.

2. No. Not all jobs have micromanagement. You just haven't explored other jobs because you lack critical thinking skills, and never got it into your head, that there are good jobs that allow you to explore your creativity and get paid well.

3. If you are man, and have a female manager, you have issues. Men should not put themselves in these positions, ever.

4. Relocating for a corporation is for losers. They don't care about you, and will leave you in a city with no job, if that is what works for them.

5. Companies don't have integrity, and never have. You are not protected.

6. Pharma is for idiots. Don't defend it. Ever.

7. No. There are not intelligent people in this industry. Smart people understand that this industry is about money, and not health.

Conclusion is that you are drinking some strong Cool Aid. Step back, and take a deep breath. Allow your mind to take this all in, young soul. I will be waiting for you at the Evolution Bell Curve.

Sounds to me like someone couldn’t hack it, probably working in a library now lecturing others on their decisions. Sorry we won’t meet on the Evolution Bell Curve, I won’t visit you down there with the other amoeba. Too busy making Jack.

 

[anonymous]

1. When you consider the taxes you pay, you really make 125-150 K. There are entrepreneurs that make more and play less taxes. Also, you are fooling yourself if you really think you make your own schedule. You have your big brother, aka Boss that you will always have over you in a corporate structure. Even the CEO is a tool to the Board.

2. No. Not all jobs have micromanagement. You just haven't explored other jobs because you lack critical thinking skills, and never got it into your head, that there are good jobs that allow you to explore your creativity and get paid well.

3. If you are man, and have a female manager, you have issues. Men should not put themselves in these positions, ever.

4. Relocating for a corporation is for losers. They don't care about you, and will leave you in a city with no job, if that is what works for them.

5. Companies don't have integrity, and never have. You are not protected.

6. Pharma is for idiots. Don't defend it. Ever.

7. No. There are not intelligent people in this industry. Smart people understand that this industry is about money, and not health.

Conclusion is that you are drinking some strong Cool Aid. Step back, and take a deep breath. Allow your mind to take this all in, young soul. I will be waiting for you at the Evolution Bell Curve.

All true

 

[anonymous]

1. When you consider the taxes you pay, you really make 125-150 K. There are entrepreneurs that make more and play less taxes. Also, you are fooling yourself if you really think you make your own schedule. You have your big brother, aka Boss that you will always have over you in a corporate structure. Even the CEO is a tool to the Board.

2. No. Not all jobs have micromanagement. You just haven't explored other jobs because you lack critical thinking skills, and never got it into your head, that there are good jobs that allow you to explore your creativity and get paid well.

3. If you are man, and have a female manager, you have issues. Men should not put themselves in these positions, ever.

4. Relocating for a corporation is for losers. They don't care about you, and will leave you in a city with no job, if that is what works for them.

5. Companies don't have integrity, and never have. You are not protected.

6. Pharma is for idiots. Don't defend it. Ever.

7. No. There are not intelligent people in this industry. Smart people understand that this industry is about money, and not health.

Conclusion is that you are drinking some strong Cool Aid. Step back, and take a deep breath. Allow your mind to take this all in, young soul. I will be waiting for you at the Evolution Bell Curve.

Wish I had written this...Very well said and 100% spot on...

 

[anonymous]

I work 2 days a week, have a net worth in the millions, and my wife doesn’t have to work. You couldn’t hack it and got shit canned. You can’t sell and can’t get back in. As you mentioned, there are now almost 1/2 the reps as in the past, and no talent losers like you were weeded out long ago. Now go do the laundry for your wife, cupcake.....the bread winner is almost home and she better not have to fold those linens!

Follow this persons lead while building a side hustle. It’s not a bad way to go. I wish I started the side hustle long long ago instead of just long ago. The one skill pharma teaches most successful reps is persistence. Take the persistence attitude into a venture where you are an owner and it can really pay off. Pharma can definitely be a great job....you just have to recognize that it’s a gig job where the gig can last years or not long at all.

 

[anonymous]

Before I post this let me get this out of the way. I am a short timer, I am finishing up my career with JNJ the end of Q4.


so with that being said, I just want to make sure all the new blood realize something. you aren't important to the company. you are disposable. if it feels like the company is pushing you and pushing you just to see how much you will take before you leave, its because they are. No pharma company wants boiler room sales guys anymore, they want walking billboards. they want ipad holders, lunch deliverers, and signature catchers. Pharma rep is a shrinking career, soon to be a dead end career.


It doesn't really matter if the death by a thousand cuts approach pushes you over the edge, even if you hang on through the steady decrease in compensation, and decrease in benefits, the company will eventually get you. i promise you this. if you are 30 or under. I guarantee you will not retire with this company. you can count on that.

 

[anonymous]

Before I post this let me get this out of the way. I am a short timer, I am finishing up my career with JNJ the end of Q4.


so with that being said, I just want to make sure all the new blood realize something. you aren't important to the company. you are disposable. if it feels like the company is pushing you and pushing you just to see how much you will take before you leave, its because they are. No pharma company wants boiler room sales guys anymore, they want walking billboards. they want ipad holders, lunch deliverers, and signature catchers. Pharma rep is a shrinking career, soon to be a dead end career.


It doesn't really matter if the death by a thousand cuts approach pushes you over the edge, even if you hang on through the steady decrease in compensation, and decrease in benefits, the company will eventually get you. i promise you this. if you are 30 or under. I guarantee you will not retire with this company. you can count on that.

You won’t retire anywhere.

 

[anonymous]

Before I post this let me get this out of the way. I am a short timer, I am finishing up my career with JNJ the end of Q4.


so with that being said, I just want to make sure all the new blood realize something. you aren't important to the company. you are disposable. if it feels like the company is pushing you and pushing you just to see how much you will take before you leave, its because they are. No pharma company wants boiler room sales guys anymore, they want walking billboards. they want ipad holders, lunch deliverers, and signature catchers. Pharma rep is a shrinking career, soon to be a dead end career.


It doesn't really matter if the death by a thousand cuts approach pushes you over the edge, even if you hang on through the steady decrease in compensation, and decrease in benefits, the company will eventually get you. i promise you this. if you are 30 or under. I guarantee you will not retire with this company. you can count on that.

Excellent post here and correct.

Its all about the stakeholders.

If I was a newbie in sales (with or without a college degree), I would go into real estate/insurance/mortgage lending.

There is more money, more stability, and its an easier career.

Pharma is just a mess these days, and management lacks respect.

 

[anonymous]

Excellent post here and correct.

Its all about the stakeholders.

If I was a newbie in sales (with or without a college degree), I would go into real estate/insurance/mortgage lending.

There is more money, more stability, and its an easier career.

Pharma is just a mess these days, and management lacks respect.

Calling Pharma a mess is doing a disservice to things like garbage dumps...

Pharma is a friggin' disaster...

 

[anonymous]

I think the purpose of this thread was to discuss how people moved on from Pharma, thought I would share my own experience. I am sure this thread will get bashed as I can see that CP hasn't changed in the decade since I really looked at the site.

With my experience I will share two stories as my wife and I were both reps for a little over a decade and both left at the same time. We both started in the big hiring surge of the late 90's and stayed in the industry until 2008. Our exits had two very different paths but both came with eventual huge upsides in quality of life and ultimately financial gains. We also didn't leave because we were pushed out, we just saw the writing on the wall and decided we needed to change so we wouldn't be in a crisis while trying to send our kids to college.

I walked across the stage in early 2008 to accept my Presidents Club award knowing I was going to quit before I even got to go on the trip. In mid-2008 I began a career in IT sales working as an inside rep for a small company. The base was about $15K less but the upside was much better. Unfortunately the economy crashed and nobody was buying, I managed to stay on because I was the "cheap" new guy and worked hard. Through persistence and long hours, plus a few moves to different companies, I have managed to find an extremely stable career with earnings 3-4x my top earnings in pharma. I work long days leaving my house at 7:30 AM when I am in the office and I travel over 100K miles in the air with 100 nights on the road but I love it. For those in their 30's, IT is an amazing industry and there are plenty of starter jobs out there that pay well. Google for recruiters, easy to find and many of them actually advertise they have jobs for those leaving pharma.

My wife has had a different experience but still successful and we don't really need her income now like we did when we were both in pharma making equal pay. She bounced around in the medical sales community but focused on home-care and hospice. The earnings were solid and it had a similar schedule to pharma, which was great since I was now traveling all over the country. As my career has taken off she has decided to step back a bit to spend more times with the kids. She is still working but as a 1099 rep in a commission only capacity. She makes enough money to pay a few of the bills and we just save the rest for her retirement.

Let the kicking begin...

 

[anonymous]

I think the purpose of this thread was to discuss how people moved on from Pharma, thought I would share my own experience. I am sure this thread will get bashed as I can see that CP hasn't changed in the decade since I really looked at the site.

With my experience I will share two stories as my wife and I were both reps for a little over a decade and both left at the same time. We both started in the big hiring surge of the late 90's and stayed in the industry until 2008. Our exits had two very different paths but both came with eventual huge upsides in quality of life and ultimately financial gains. We also didn't leave because we were pushed out, we just saw the writing on the wall and decided we needed to change so we wouldn't be in a crisis while trying to send our kids to college.

I walked across the stage in early 2008 to accept my Presidents Club award knowing I was going to quit before I even got to go on the trip. In mid-2008 I began a career in IT sales working as an inside rep for a small company. The base was about $15K less but the upside was much better. Unfortunately the economy crashed and nobody was buying, I managed to stay on because I was the "cheap" new guy and worked hard. Through persistence and long hours, plus a few moves to different companies, I have managed to find an extremely stable career with earnings 3-4x my top earnings in pharma. I work long days leaving my house at 7:30 AM when I am in the office and I travel over 100K miles in the air with 100 nights on the road but I love it. For those in their 30's, IT is an amazing industry and there are plenty of starter jobs out there that pay well. Google for recruiters, easy to find and many of them actually advertise they have jobs for those leaving pharma.

My wife has had a different experience but still successful and we don't really need her income now like we did when we were both in pharma making equal pay. She bounced around in the medical sales community but focused on home-care and hospice. The earnings were solid and it had a similar schedule to pharma, which was great since I was now traveling all over the country. As my career has taken off she has decided to step back a bit to spend more times with the kids. She is still working but as a 1099 rep in a commission only capacity. She makes enough money to pay a few of the bills and we just save the rest for her retirement.

Let the kicking begin...

No bashing here. Sounds like both of you made wise moves. I started in the Industry at the same time as you, and make around 300k a year in biotech. I rarely travel, and work on average 3 days a week. My wife and I spend a ton of time with the kids and each other. That being said, the job is boring and I do occasionally worry about making it another 10 years or so with what I make.

I say good for you...

 

[anonymous]

I left in 2012 after seeing the writing on the wall, and getting tired of the layoffs, mergers, managers that make your life hell, etc. I never killed it by some standards, the most I ever made between biotech and pharma was $120k, but I just couldn’t do it anymore, and even though I was only 32, I didn’t see a lot of women in the field in their 40’s and 50’s, and the ones that were seemed bitter.

I got my masters in healthcare management and wound up going into marketing, but when looking for a new job, I still feel like having pharma/medical sales on my resume is a red flag that I have to explain away or defend against, explaining why I left, and that I am a very intelligent person with many skills, that I’m not just a “rep”, because some hiring managers and recruiters still look at the years of medical sales and ask what I could do at a company/in a role. Even with the past few years of marketing (in a corporate position not directly in healthcare), job searches and LinkedIn keep recommending sales jobs.

It’s very hard to dig yourself out of sales once you go down that road. If I could do it again, I would go into regulatory or become a PA or NP with a business background, as there are so many jobs out there for those roles, and more flexibility to shape your career.

 

[anonymous]

I left in 2012 after seeing the writing on the wall, and getting tired of the layoffs, mergers, managers that make your life hell, etc. I never killed it by some standards, the most I ever made between biotech and pharma was $120k, but I just couldn’t do it anymore, and even though I was only 32, I didn’t see a lot of women in the field in their 40’s and 50’s, and the ones that were seemed bitter.

I got my masters in healthcare management and wound up going into marketing, but when looking for a new job, I still feel like having pharma/medical sales on my resume is a red flag that I have to explain away or defend against, explaining why I left, and that I am a very intelligent person with many skills, that I’m not just a “rep”, because some hiring managers and recruiters still look at the years of medical sales and ask what I could do at a company/in a role. Even with the past few years of marketing (in a corporate position not directly in healthcare), job searches and LinkedIn keep recommending sales jobs.

It’s very hard to dig yourself out of sales once you go down that road. If I could do it again, I would go into regulatory or become a PA or NP with a business background, as there are so many jobs out there for those roles, and more flexibility to shape your career.

Glad you were able to at least somewhat "reinvent" yourself. I was not so lucky. I got pushed out of my pharma job at 50, and after a couple of false starts with non-pharma related, bottom feeder sales jobs, I opted to retire and throw up the white flag...I make a few sheckles here and there buying from thrift stores and flea markets and selling on Ebay.

Pharma truly is a blessing and a curse. A scarlet letter that most come to regret choosing...It follows you around for the rest of your "career" like a bad smell or a cold sore.

 

[anonymous]

Glad you were able to at least somewhat "reinvent" yourself. I was not so lucky. I got pushed out of my pharma job at 50, and after a couple of false starts with non-pharma related, bottom feeder sales jobs, I opted to retire and throw up the white flag...I make a few sheckles here and there buying from thrift stores and flea markets and selling on Ebay.

Pharma truly is a blessing and a curse. A scarlet letter that most come to regret choosing...It follows you around for the rest of your "career" like a bad smell or a cold sore.

Some people will want to throw stones at this, but unless you are “there” you have no idea how hard it is to effectively compete for a new pharma job despite the ‘many years of experience”. The fact is you learn 90% of what you really need to know in the first two years, so 20 years is really mostly 2 years repeated 10 times. I don’t mean that to disrespect the poster or other 20 years reps I think if you objectively look at the realities you can see why being an older rep becomes a tough sell

 

[anonymous]

Some people will want to throw stones at this, but unless you are “there” you have no idea how hard it is to effectively compete for a new pharma job despite the ‘many years of experience”. The fact is you learn 90% of what you really need to know in the first two years, so 20 years is really mostly 2 years repeated 10 times. I don’t mean that to disrespect the poster or other 20 years reps I think if you objectively look at the realities you can see why being an older rep becomes a tough sell

Isn't any job like that? Teacher, by year two you have your lesson plans that you repeat. Office staff, month in month out of the same check lists by year two you pretty much know them by heart. Factory worker on the line....same job same parts day in day out.