EBI v. Exogen

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Hey Exogen sales force,

How is the Exospine clinical trial coming? When will you finally compete in the REAL stimulation market: spine? This is the market you can do $100,000 a month with 1 MD!

How is that indication coming along? We here at EBI have a level 1 study in lumbar fusions with our CC device in spine. Can't wait to compete with y'all.

Oh wait, I hear the word by the campfire is that Exospine is dead? Have fun selling fresh fractures under a 2 nd Obama term. More and more payers will reject all the fresh fractures you try to get approved. More and more payers will look at lubbert and say "wow, I guess exogen does not accelerate fix healing in all bones".

You guys will continue to bleed out. Supartz will soon cost less than $50 per injection, and your scoliosis test will never be a player.

Capacitive coupling Rambo!
 






SpiralFracture said:
Of all the things to argue about...bone stimulators, really guys?! :)

I'm in the UK and have just recieived an EXOGEN machine to speed up a slow healing fracture. It's not a cheap option - but well worth a try to avoid surgery - although I wonder if they'd be adopted more widely if the business model was adjusted to being a "rentable service" rather than a device to buy outright...?
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Why would anyone want to rent this device when all the manufacturers have decided it is in their best interest to declare this a purchase only item? Why give up these insane profits when you can't rent it anywhere? In America, Medicare keeps paying purchase, so who cares? Coinsurance is generally waived so it is free to the patients so they don't complain to the doctor. Even if it does not work (JBJS Nov, 2008), who cares? Buy it on Ebay for $50!
 






CC Rambo!!! said:
Hey Exogen sales force,

How is the Exospine clinical trial coming? When will you finally compete in the REAL stimulation market: spine? This is the market you can do $100,000 a month with 1 MD!

How is that indication coming along? We here at EBI have a level 1 study in lumbar fusions with our CC device in spine. Can't wait to compete with y'all.

Oh wait, I hear the word by the campfire is that Exospine is dead? Have fun selling fresh fractures under a 2 nd Obama term. More and more payers will reject all the fresh fractures you try to get approved. More and more payers will look at lubbert and say "wow, I guess exogen does not accelerate fix healing in all bones".

You guys will continue to bleed out. Supartz will soon cost less than $50 per injection, and your scoliosis test will never be a player.

Capacitive coupling Rambo!
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Bitter much? So glad I don't sell that 30 yo POS 10 hour minimum EBI product proven to not work. Exospine is not over. Sorry for the news. It may take a bit, so count your days.
 












EBI reps hate us. You just can't compete with our product. Oh great, you have a few relationships left. You can't comptete. We'll see yaaaaa.

Whatever he hits...he destroys!

-Exogen Rep
 






This post is boring, especially since the business is fall out from poor reductions and fixation. You dudes should all be selling fixation and leave the failures to the babes.
 






didnt the jbjs come out last year and say that CC didnt work for long bone?

all stims are a fraud and should be discontinued. look at the designs of ebi and orthofix, wires with a battery pack that are manufactured in china and they cost the patients ins $5000? Thats BS and the problem with healthcare cost.
 






Anonymous said:
didnt the jbjs come out last year and say that CC didnt work for long bone?

all stims are a fraud and should be discontinued. look at the designs of ebi and orthofix, wires with a battery pack that are manufactured in china and they cost the patients ins $5000? Thats BS and the problem with healthcare cost.
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Why does Medicare and insurances continue to pay? The system has broken down somewhere along the line. How much longer will this go on?
 


















Anonymous said:
Ebi is the leading bone stimulator. They have over 300 studies on there devices. The ebi bone healing system has a lower success rates because they used a true double blind placebo control. Exogen lacks a placebo controlled pma study. also they market 20 mins per day. That's Great I guess. Ebi markets 10 hours per day. Ebi heals 60 faster than exogen. Exogen can only treat for 20 mins because the FDA only allows 20 mins. It's believed that the ultrasound with damage the soft tissue. So there no problems with ebi. More stim is better because people heal fast. Also exogen has be found not to be effective with internal fixation. The study they funded found that. They're only FDA approved for distal tibia and distal radius fractures. There is a depth of penetration issue with that device. Also the field only covers a small area. Ebi stimulators cover a much larger area. They have no problems with depth of penetration. They work well with internal fixation. Beware of exogen big marketing but doesn't deliver as much. ebi also has a device called capacitive coupling which can be worn for 24 hrs. This device works well I've seen its results. Patients heal faster.
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Where in the world do you get your info about Exogen damaging soft tissue if treated over 20min. You need to educate yourself on the difference in Ultrasound voltage vs Physical Therapy ultrasound. Exogen is non-thermal and has a much lower voltage than PT. The cells are still stimulated for 20-24 hours after the 20 minute treatment.

Totally different technology.
 






Anonymous said:
All of SN marketing seems to be geared towards accelerating the heal time of fxs. Most surgeons find that their sales reps are unethical. To keep hasseling the surgeons to write for acute fxs is wasteful and irresponsible.
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Many atheletes, workman comp cases and actors cost the team/production a lot of money if they are injured from a fracture. So why not add a non-invasive device that has been proven to accelerate the time to heal? All of us (Exogen) are trained to discuss indicated acute fxs (tibia and distal radius), however, the Drs. ask to use us with other acute fxs, including when they suffer from a fracture or one of their family members or friends.

If the surgeon treats conservatively (cast or boot along with Exogen) a lot of money(in surgical costs) can be saved.
 






Anonymous said:
Ebi is the leading bone stimulator. They have over 300 studies on there devices. The ebi bone healing system has a lower success rates because they used a true double blind placebo control. Exogen lacks a placebo controlled pma study. also they market 20 mins per day. That's Great I guess. Ebi markets 10 hours per day. Ebi heals 60 faster than exogen. Exogen can only treat for 20 mins because the FDA only allows 20 mins. It's believed that the ultrasound with damage the soft tissue. So there no problems with ebi. More stim is better because people heal fast. Also exogen has be found not to be effective with internal fixation. The study they funded found that. They're only FDA approved for distal tibia and distal radius fractures. There is a depth of penetration issue with that device. Also the field only covers a small area. Ebi stimulators cover a much larger area. They have no problems with depth of penetration. They work well with internal fixation. Beware of exogen big marketing but doesn't deliver as much. ebi also has a device called capacitive coupling which can be worn for 24 hrs. This device works well I've seen its results. Patients heal faster.
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Youre so brained washed its funny. JBJS threw out those 300 studies dating back from 1980 because they were not good studies. EBI does not have better depth of penetration and there are no issues with Exogen and metals period or soft tissue. Exogen as no known CONTRADICTIONS! I laugh every time a EBI rep says that to a doctor. All I have to show them is the plethora of Level 1 data on fx with metals and the 2 JBJS recents studies that shows EBI not working on acute tibias or NON-UNIONS. I can't wait till you guys hit with a slander suit for all the lies you tell out there.
 






Anonymous said:
They actually do work if used properly in a lot of instances.
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I'm laughing. The way you get your product to WORK is to place it on patients who have just had Non-Union Revisional ORIF. Most of which are going to heal just fine on their own anyway.

The point of using bone stims for non-unions is to avoid revisional surgery.
 






Anonymous said:
They actually do work if used properly in a lot of instances.
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If used in conjunction with a cast or some other common modality it works. Face it, the product is useless, is billed as purchase without patient consent,coinsurance waived, doctors offices paid.off, CMN forms are falsified, single patient use is a lie, and the companies are committing antitrust violations by charging the system more because none will allow rental. This is the nature of the bone stim biz.
 






Face it.... Bone stimulation products are boring. Good alignment and reduction held by fixation is the job of the surgeon. If done properly, the need for these voodoo products is eliminated. They (orthopaedic surgeons) need to get it right the first time!
 






Anonymous said:
Why would anyone want to rent this device when all the manufacturers have decided it is in their best interest to declare this a purchase only item? Why give up these insane profits when you can't rent it anywhere? In America, Medicare keeps paying purchase, so who cares? Coinsurance is generally waived so it is free to the patients so they don't complain to the doctor. Even if it does not work (JBJS Nov, 2008), who cares? Buy it on Ebay for $50!
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So you people at EBI are waiving Medicare co-pays? Did you know that is Illegal?
Medicare pays "purchase" because of what is written on the CMS form for time of use. Who is filling that out? The Dr.? The Rep?
 






Good grief!

I have just been prescribed an Exogen, and listening to all of you is such a turn off I will not trust anyone who sells these kinds of devises.

I am in wine sales and marketing, which is a pretty friendly business compared to yours. We do not speak like this among ourselves. You are selling health care products, and you sound like this?

I am appalled.
 






I rented one from the US www.ExogenRentals.com
The only downside was I had to send them a wire from the bank for payment in order for them to ship here. You pay a deposit, which they send back once you return the machine.
That seemed to really speed up my recovery. I was jogging in just 7 weeks.
 






Anonymous said:
I rented one from the US www.ExogenRentals.com
The only downside was I had to send them a wire from the bank for payment in order for them to ship here. You pay a deposit, which they send back once you return the machine.
That seemed to really speed up my recovery. I was jogging in just 7 weeks.
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Finally, a rented product is available. Soon to be among all providers, the requirement to offer the patient a rental. It's about time.
 






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