EBI v. Exogen

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Poster 38 is just being a prick. According to 38's logic, you can make the argument that any idea is "voodoo" because everybody is paid to conduct studies.

Two things 38 can do rather than pull shit up his/her ass:

1) Ask doctors who have USED it.

2) If it did not work, insurance companies would not continue to use it because they look at ROI. If it was voodoo, they would quickly realize that they are not preventing further surgeries.

Easy.
 












Wow, lots of anger and little use of the facts.
EBI - It works, healing nonunions about 60-65% of the time, worn 10 hours a day. The issues are compliance with such a long wear time, and having to wait until the patient reaches the insurance mandated period that a fracture can be called nonunion.
Exogen - It works, healing nonunions about 83-90% of the time, worn 20 minutes. The issue is having skin contact with the device.
The added benefit of the fresh fracture approval for the exogen means not all patients have to wait to get the device.
The Exogen unit is #1 in the US, EBI is #2.
My experience is that doctors use EBI because they have a long standing relationship with the rep. Most doctors use Exogen, because it's better for the patient. And isn't that the most important point of this entire thread.
 






This is a mute debate.

EBI is on a downward spiral, along with Orthofix. You can't expect a product to hold onto market share based on relationships along, especially with treatment times of 8-10 hours. Now, I know that ofix reps love to market 2 hours applications to the MD, but its funny how the patient is told to wear the device for upwards of 8 hours daily.

Exogen is a quality product and it has some great market support, but there are drawbacks there as well. Attenuation through soft tissue, a tiny tiny field size, and the fact that it cant be used with internal hardware or go over a cast? Sounds like a big hurdle to get over to me.

The DJO product is the fastest growing in the marketplace. 30 minutes a day, proven results, and multiple sizes to treat any fracture site. Plus, if the rep isnt an idiot, there are ways to get the insurance companies to pay for them prior to their listed criteria timeframes.

I'm taking business from all of you, daily. Its a simple combination of hard work, accountability, and a great product.

That is all.
 






Recruiters

Melody Dante is a Medical Device Recruiter out of California. She has helped many transition into other companies in ortho. If you want to venture out and see what she has avialable please go to her website at www.grnsanluisobispo.com...she is the balm and she just placed me in my dream position with another ortho company!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Excited Rep...
 






The DJO product has the same heal rates as the EBI device slapped into 30 mins. Big fuckin deal. Exogen is the newest, already #1 and will always be #1 unless some great new invention comes out. Exogen penetrates 10.5 inches at 2.5times the diamater of the transducer. No arguing that.

Go work for Ofix for their spine stim I hear its good.
 






Anonymous said:
This is a mute debate.

EBI is on a downward spiral, along with Orthofix. You can't expect a product to hold onto market share based on relationships along, especially with treatment times of 8-10 hours. Now, I know that ofix reps love to market 2 hours applications to the MD, but its funny how the patient is told to wear the device for upwards of 8 hours daily.

Exogen is a quality product and it has some great market support, but there are drawbacks there as well. Attenuation through soft tissue, a tiny tiny field size, and the fact that it cant be used with internal hardware or go over a cast? Sounds like a big hurdle to get over to me.

The DJO product is the fastest growing in the marketplace. 30 minutes a day, proven results, and multiple sizes to treat any fracture site. Plus, if the rep isnt an idiot, there are ways to get the insurance companies to pay for them prior to their listed criteria timeframes.

I'm taking business from all of you, daily. Its a simple combination of hard work, accountability, and a great product.

That is all.
Click to expand...

What a joke, DJO is a piece of crap and the efficacy is laughable. Why would an Ofix rep tell a patient to wear the device for 8 hours??? The fact you folks at DJO are able to even sell that junk is commendable but still doesn't hide the fact that if it looks like a pig, and smells like a pig, it is a pig!
 






True. The DJO's efficacy rate is somewhere in the 60's.
I don't have any accounts using this bone stim unless they are stock and bill.

It doesn't take an account long to realize stocking and billing bone stims is a royal pain.
 






I have the DJO rep in my territory begging the docs to hold off on giving me fresh fractures so he has a chance at getting a chance at a non-union bone order. He is probably going to quit soon.
 






Boys and girls. I'm making 8-9 grand a month off of a zero based teritory selling those "junk" DJO bone stimes. On the long bone side only.

The job is about relationship building. Some Exogen skank with big tits, and an EBI rep thats about 45 years old arent exactly the toughest competition.

Our product was cleared with the most rigorous double-blind study in the bone-stim field. Post-market data has proven our heal rates to be favorable to Exogen, EBI, Ofix, etc...

Keep talking, bitching about how DJO's product is garbage, and I'll keep taking your accounts, building my business.

Want me to lube up when I drive my S class up your ass?

Thanks.
 






Anonymous said:
I have the DJO rep in my territory begging the docs to hold off on giving me fresh fractures so he has a chance at getting a chance at a non-union bone order. He is probably going to quit soon.
Click to expand...

You r*****s don't even have fresh fracture indication. You have it on distal radius and tib fractures... woooo maybe 5 percent of the fx market?

From your website:

Warnings:
The safety and effectiveness of the use of this device has not been established for the following:
Fracture locations other than the distal radius or tibial diaphysis.
 






Anonymous said:
You r*****s don't even have fresh fracture indication. You have it on distal radius and tib fractures... woooo maybe 5 percent of the fx market?

From your website:

Warnings:
The safety and effectiveness of the use of this device has not been established for the following:
Fracture locations other than the distal radius or tibial diaphysis.
Click to expand...


Who gives a fuck. You actually think the insurances companies care? Go look at the fresh fracture coverage that the Blues, United, Humana, etc cover for the Exogen. The studies were done on cortical and cancelus bone. We don't need to fund $ for each particular bone to the FDA waste of money and docs and insurance companies know if it works on a tib it works on a femur.

Next stupid comment?
 






Anonymous said:
Who gives a fuck. You actually think the insurances companies care? Go look at the fresh fracture coverage that the Blues, United, Humana, etc cover for the Exogen. The studies were done on cortical and cancelus bone. We don't need to fund $ for each particular bone to the FDA waste of money and docs and insurance companies know if it works on a tib it works on a femur.

Next stupid comment?
Click to expand...

Your bullshit studies would never pass FDA approval in today's environment. Your bullshit attenuating signal doesnt work on anything but the most superficial fractures, and your reps are all dogshit.

Good luck out there. I'll keep on keepin on... destroying your marketplace one account at a time. Keep placing medicare patients early and falsifying documentation... don't worry... I report it every single time. Scumbags
 






Anonymous said:
Your bullshit studies would never pass FDA approval in today's environment. Your bullshit attenuating signal doesnt work on anything but the most superficial fractures, and your reps are all dogshit.

Good luck out there. I'll keep on keepin on... destroying your marketplace one account at a time. Keep placing medicare patients early and falsifying documentation... don't worry... I report it every single time. Scumbags
Click to expand...

Guess what?

JBJS just released a meta-analysis on electric stimulators and they concluded that they do not work (Mollon 2008).

You LOSE!

Only Exogen works and you are jealous and can only engage in wishful thinking on but, if, when, blah.

Wait till the docs read this. Time for you to find a new job.
 












I have not seen it yet, but I guess there is an article in Nov JBJS that is a Meta analasys of bone stim data and is not sounding too favorable. In fact, It sounds like the concusion states no difference overall healing rates with stims for long bone. Anyone seen it?
 












Anonymous said:
Try and defend this. It is YOUR product that would NOT get FDA approval in today's market.

http://www.ejbjs.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/11/2322

Keep hoping that your competition is committing fraud in your territory because that is all that you have.
Click to expand...

I'll gladly defend that. The meta-analysis included only PEMF and CC bone stim. No CMF was involved in any of the studies that they looked at.

Different signal, different results.
 












Not true. CMF studies when the product was brought to market were gold standard prospective studies. They took one shot at getting the FDA labeling with the most difficult study including chronic long term nonunion fractures. Average time from injury was nearly 30 months in pre market data. Far more difficult fractures than the competition.

Post market data supports heal rates higher than the other EM stims, still with over one year average time post injury. Thanks.
 






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