Chickens that read.

Quote
Saw it all. said:
Listen doc (if you are one) this is not about you or your friends on the take. This is about the crooked bigpharma that is using all kinds of unethical, illegal, criminal ways to push their drugs. To push them far beyond what using ONLY legal means of promo would do. Does this mean use of their drug in out-off label indications, in every woman, man and child in US or taking market share from a competitor? Does not matter. What they want is more and more. If they can uses someone like you to speak to GPs nad BS them about the wonderful drug your "sponsor" is selling, that is fine. If they can send you to Paris for a big congress that you should be paying for yourself, that is fine too. Maybe you would not Rx their drug because of that but you'd say to yourself Diovan is the best drug for this patient with BP. Over and over again. Not Cozaar or Avapro or Atacand or.. (thay all do the same thing) but Diovan. So how can you be sure that you did not do it because you and your wife just came back from Vienna "sponsored" by Novartis where you attended a congress and had a wonderful time. They even paid you an honorarium to attend the Advisory Board Meeting. After the meeting, , you all went to see the Viennise opera driven their in S class huge Mercedes limos. You still resisted giving into the temptation to do them a re-favour.
Well I'll tell you one thing doc, if it were true that you did not "repay" them with using their drugs as best for your patients, most of the time that trip to Vienna would have been your last with Novartis. But wait, there are other bigpharma Cos to milk. Maybe you are one of those. The really "smart" docs - specialists usually have few of the bigpharma Cos on the go.
Again it is not about you, it is not your fault. Anyone would give in sooner or later to the BP dangling all that money and trips and....in front of their noses.
As someone said: "The biggest crime of the BigPharma is their corruption of our most important health care resources - our doctors".
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more.
It would be hard for anyone to say no.
We all know the kinds of money we are talking about.
I know for a fact that NVS has had many "speakers" that made in excess of 100k speaking in one year alone.
 






Anonymous said:
I couldn't agree more.
It would be hard for anyone to say no.
We all know the kinds of money we are talking about.
I know for a fact that NVS has had many "speakers" that made in excess of 100k speaking in one year alone.
Click to expand...

Agree. Some really smart speakers who have few big pharma "clients" make more money BSing for them than from healing the sick. But what happened to our friend here, the doc who does not think he did anything wrong? Maybe he is on another trip to far corner of the earth with Novartis or some other client company. He'll show up upon return.
By the way once I saw a group of about 550 specialists brought in by Novartis to AHA held in Orlando for Valiant presentation. There were specialists from all over the world icluding China, Japan and you name it. Every last of those freeloaders had their expenses covered by Novartis 110%. But as the man says it is not your fault doctors. Everyone else with such low resistance to bribe would do the same thing. Funny how even people with one of the highest levels of income in any country, be it poor or rich are so easily corrupted and trapped by big pharma.
What is even funnier someone so well informed as that RTB.. guy is completely "unaware" things like this are going on in NOvartis or any other big pharma. Can you F&^%$ing believe that?
 






We did a program in the midwest one year that paid every doctor that attended, a $ 750.00 check just for showing up to a breakfast speaker program.

We had a total of 125 dr.s and the whole thing lasted a couple of hours in the marriot basement.

They planted myself along with a few others in the audience and we were given instructions by our dm to ask the speaker about off label uses for the drug.

The speaker knew which questions were coming before hand so he could have the slides ready when we asked the questions live.

This sort of thing happened all the time, but this was the biggest event I ever witnessed.
 






Anonymous said:
We did a program in the midwest one year that paid every doctor that attended, a $ 750.00 check just for showing up to a breakfast speaker program.

We had a total of 125 dr.s and the whole thing lasted a couple of hours in the marriot basement.

They planted myself along with a few others in the audience and we were given instructions by our dm to ask the speaker about off label uses for the drug.

The speaker knew which questions were coming before hand so he could have the slides ready when we asked the questions live.

This sort of thing happened all the time, but this was the biggest event I ever witnessed.
Click to expand...

This is called "advisory board" meetings that big pharma invented along many other crooked ways to push their shit, in and out-of-label. The attendees are instantly "promoted" to advisory board members and paid "honorarium" to attend the meeting, which in fact is a promotional meeting for the drug Co. They get one of their hired guns, sold out specialist, who does the dirty work for a good honorarium. This type of promotion they had to invent when the "regular" dinner and other meetings became of no interest to docs. Now they pay them to attend and listen to illegal promotion of N's drug.
So the cost of thie meeting would be something like this:
1. Speaker fee most likely 2-5.000
2.AB "members" 93.750
3. Food, hotel etc. 10.000
So the AB meeting cost anywhere from 120-150.000. Nice way to spend the money that came from sick people who paid inflated prices of this Co. The all do it.
Now, for the smart rep, this maybe a very good evidence of illegal promo. done by Novartis. Collect it file it and one day go and get them. Maybe you as that Merck rep will walk away with more money that Vasella makes in a year or two. And my friend that is a LOT of Swiss franks and even US $$.
 


















Anonymous said:
In that case maybe someone should send it to one of these new cats either in EH or Base to wellcome them with Novartis' reality.
Click to expand...

I will bet my next bonus that they have already seen it through daily bpo updates.

Recent conversation with home office person revealed some interesting things. For example: With most recent wave of firings bottem 15% was let go, or will be let go soon. Then new wave of another 15% will be put on pips, then given unbelievable goals, then let go as well.

That ends up being a whopping 30% reduction in sales force, without having to pay much at all in severence.

If you thought the previous cuts would yield a 1.5 billion annual cost savings, what do you think an additional 30% cut would yield.

Why do they need so much money?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Also, eh trolls 24/7 according to same sorce, and yes they are instructed to throw off bad threads with spell nazi shit and yes man shit!
 












This is a great thread. I am an "old" rep (yes, thinking I am on the "target" list because of tenure/high salary/pension/cost to company) wishing that ALL of pharma would go back to the "good old days". DDD-which only tracked what was shipped to the wholesaler and you actually had to talk with pharmacists to get info on physicians or better yet, you had to canvas the entire town and ACTUALLY speak with physicians! NOW that would be a great scenario today!

It was when physicians really trusted, respected and believed us because we pretty much only talked of our productS (usually at least 6 products to detail)!
Now, you have TOO many incompetent reps along with companies who have become so GREEDY that they will do anything to make sure the stockholder is happy...along with the CEO! (nice of him to take a "pay cut" this year)

Now you have specialists who are paid to promote drugs like Tekturna who have been involved in clinical trials speaking to PCP's about the results of a FEW NUMBER of patients in their practice. The one I have in my territory is HIGHLY sought after by the DM's because they know he will speak off label about proteinuria and what Tekturna will do for his patients. He goes as far as saying it will replace the ARB's and ACEi's.

oh, how I long for the old days...actually, I now wish I had never gone to work for a pharma company. I really do wish it were about the patients...sadly, it no longer is.

CONTINUE WITH YOUR WRITINGS...I can't wait for the next chapter!
 






Anonymous said:
I will bet my next bonus that they have already seen it through daily bpo updates.

Recent conversation with home office person revealed some interesting things. For example: With most recent wave of firings bottem 15% was let go, or will be let go soon. Then new wave of another 15% will be put on pips, then given unbelievable goals, then let go as well.

That ends up being a whopping 30% reduction in sales force, without having to pay much at all in severence.

If you thought the previous cuts would yield a 1.5 billion annual cost savings, what do you think an additional 30% cut would yield.

Why do they need so much money?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Also, eh trolls 24/7 according to same sorce, and yes they are instructed to throw off bad threads with spell nazi shit and yes man shit!
Click to expand...

Thanks brother. OP; I knew it all the time that those detractors tried all kinds of shit including spell Nazi thing to disinform our readers and supporters. And they are watching for sure. BPO (you read my BPO thread) and all kninds of other low lifes are on it. No matter some who normally would not got them anyway so they too can see the real truth and what good people of Novartia planet think of them.
I don't know much about the near future but think you are right. This Co is so sruel that they would use the lowest form of human mis-behavior to get rid of bunch of you. They are preparing the turf and setting people up for mass fireing. They made those big mistakes in expanding beyond any normalcy of doing biz and now you will pay. Not them. Even when they are fired they end up somewhere nice like this Ahole Alex, back to his mama, J&J. Of course Novartis send him on with the big golden ass over his mouth so he will not speak.
Those of you who can, fight back anyway you can or know. You owe them nothing.
 






Chapter 3:

"How does all the prescribing information from IMS really help?
As a sales rep, the entire plan is to get as many doctors on board with your drugs as possible. When I say 'on board' I mean that the doctor will prescribe my drug 1st for whatever condition the medication is indicated for, or in some instances, not indicated for. Either way, you are in the money when a doctor is 'on board.' The more doctors you have on board, the more prescriptions that are written, the more money a sales rep makes. Just like a lot of industries, the 80/20 rule applies here. 80% of the total prescriptions written are by only 20% of the total physicians. In other words, our top writing doctors will make up the bulk of sales rep's prescriptions. The information purchased from IMS allows the sales rep to target those highest writing doctors. I spent most of my energy and money on my top 20% doctors. It makes sense; they have the highest potential, so they get the most attention. Without that IMS data, the sales rep would be lost. We as sales reps would have to rely on what the doctors TOLD US they were writing and that would be if they were willing to volunteer that information in the first place. I suspect most doctors are not even aware that their specific prescribing information is being sold to the pharmaceutical industry in the first place."


"At Novartis I knew everything. I knew what prescriptions a doctor wrote, what insurance plans affected his/her practice the most. Most importantly, I knew which doctors saw the most patients."

"From the first day of my employment all the way until the very last day it was explained to me like this:

"Here is a list of the highest writing doctors in your territory, go sign up as many as you can to be a xxxxxxx speaker on behalf of Novartis."
"You will be evaluated every year on how many you sign up."

"If you don't sign any up, well you would not be around long enough to see how that turned out."

"Novartis has three times more registered speakers than actual sales reps in their U.S. Division. 3X!"

"To be certified as a XXXXXXX speaker, the doctor was flown to some place very nice and warm for a weekend of wining and dining. Whatever these docs wanted, all expenses were paid. As a small token of appreciation, a check from anywhere between $1500.00 to $3000.00 to go home with because really an all inclusive weekend vacation is not enough. These doctors really need some kicking around money. That kicking around money would be enough for me to take my entire family of four to Walt Disney World for a week. However, as sweet as this is, it only gets better. When a doctor gets back home, that's when the real money starts to flow. It goes something like this: I as your sales rep will set up as many real speaking engagements as I can for you. You may or may not show slides that were given to you BY Novartis. Hell, you may or may not have anyone show up at all to the lecture. It does not matter. The doctor/speaker gets treated to a very expensive dinner and drinks and walks away with a check from $ 500.00, for the lower writing doctors, to $ 5,000.00, for an actual thought leader.
If the doctor/speaker ever swayed other attending doctors to start prescribing your product than that was just a fringe benefit. The real purpose is to line that speaker's pockets with so much cash that when it comes time to put pen to Rx pad you already know what the results are going to be.
The results will be in your favor. Why?, because you bought and paid for it, that's why!"


Chapter 7:

excerpts from the book, The Truth about Drug Companies by former Editor in Chief to the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Marcia Angell M.D.:

"As saturated as we are by Direct to Consumer advertising, the main target of the pharmaceutical industry's marketing efforts is not the public, but the doctors themselves. After all, they are the ones who write the prescriptions. If the drug companies can get to the doctors directly, it is even better than getting to them indirectly through their patients."

"Drug companies pay particular attention to wooing so called thought leaders. These are prominent experts who write papers, contribute to textbooks, and give talks at medical meetings - all of which greatly affect the use of drugs in their fields. Companies shower special favors on these doctors, offer them honoraria as consultants and SPEAKERS, and often pay them to attend conferences in posh resorts, ostensibly to seek their advice. In many drug-intensive medical specialties it is virtually impossible to find an expert who is NOT receiving payments from one or more drug companies."

"Many promotional practices can only be described as bribes and kickbacks."

"Many doctors become indignant when it is suggested that they might be swayed by all this industry largesse. But why else would drug companies put so much money into them. As Stephen Goldfinger, chairman of the APA's Committee on Commercial Support, said, the pharmaceutical companies are an amoral bunch. They are not a benevolent association. So they are highly unlikely to donate large amounts of money without strings attached. Once one is dancing with the devil, you don't always get to call the steps of the dance."


Stay tuned... More to come.
 












Anonymous said:
I'm good with getting rid of speaker programs.
Total waste of time and money.
Click to expand...

NO MORE SPEAKER PROGRAMS, NO MORE PILS PROGRAMS, NO MORE ROUNDTABLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We WANT a life after 5 like NORMAL people do! It is very evident (at least in my territory) the practitioners feel the same way. You have the same 4 doctors show up at all of the above.
 






Anonymous said:
NO MORE SPEAKER PROGRAMS, NO MORE PILS PROGRAMS, NO MORE ROUNDTABLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We WANT a life after 5 like NORMAL people do! It is very evident (at least in my territory) the practitioners feel the same way. You have the same 4 doctors show up at all of the above.
Click to expand...

I am with you 110%. Have you read "You can't be serious" by Fake Alex or Novartis BPO-watch-rat (not dog they don't deserve to be called dog) to be more precise. Can you beleve that shit. The #2 comment is right on and jives with what you are saying. No more night work every night to push their shit beyond "normal" needs of our patients/customers. Maybe that overtiem lwas suit will be successful and then you'd be abloe to refuse overtime they are asking you to do without pay or with pay.
Don't let these super-bastards-no-humans-new-age-exploiters-blood-suckers-baby-killers-you-add-your-own, push you around any longer. They do it under the guise of best-co-to-work-for-giving-you-the-best-job-one-can-find-on-this-planted BS.
Here on CP we are on the right track. The word is spreading, WBers are active, books are being written, law suits are in progress and planned, federal authorities and press are being approached and given hard evidence of misconduct, avarage amployees are rebeling openly or overtly, emails with CP threads attachments are being sent to members of the board in Swisscountry, and so on. How long it will take to turn things around? No one knows but it will be successful in the end. That end will also be the end of majority of the assholes along the Novartis' food chain command, including the CEO-Chair-for-life-fake-doctor-DV.
So work on it, you are on the right road to save this once great Co.
 






"From the first day of my employment all the way until the very last day it was explained to me like this:

"Here is a list of the highest writing doctors in your territory, go sign up as many as you can to be a xxxxxxx speaker on behalf of Novartis."
"You will be evaluated every year on how many you sign up."

"If you don't sign any up, well you would not be around long enough to see how that turned out."

"Novartis has three times more registered speakers than actual sales reps in their U.S. Division. 3X!"

"To be certified as a XXXXXXX speaker, the doctor was flown to some place very nice and warm for a weekend of wining and dining. Whatever these docs wanted, all expenses were paid. As a small token of appreciation, a check from anywhere between $1500.00 to $3000.00 to go home with because really an all inclusive weekend vacation is not enough. These doctors really need some kicking around money. That kicking around money would be enough for me to take my entire family of four to Walt Disney World for a week. However, as sweet as this is, it only gets better. When a doctor gets back home, that's when the real money starts to flow. It goes something like this: I as your sales rep will set up as many real speaking engagements as I can for you. You may or may not show slides that were given to you BY Novartis. Hell, you may or may not have anyone show up at all to the lecture. It does not matter. The doctor/speaker gets treated to a very expensive dinner and drinks and walks away with a check from $ 500.00, for the lower writing doctors, to $ 5,000.00, for an actual thought leader.
If the doctor/speaker ever swayed other attending doctors to start prescribing your product than that was just a fringe benefit. The real purpose is to line that speaker's pockets with so much cash that when it comes time to put pen to Rx pad you already know what the results are going to be.
The results will be in your favor. Why?, because you bought and paid for it, that's why!"


"Take a perfectly legal way of doing business, turn it into corrupted, unethical, illegal, immoral...way of doing same business BUT make sure it still looks exactly as the legal way we twisted around".
Big Pharma leaders
Our friend WBer/book writer is describing above what Novartis worldwide calls "Speaker development program".
Here is how it should be working-legally: You, the rep find a leading specialist in your territory and ask him if he was willing to do the education of GPs via say dinner meetings you will arrange and pay for. For this you'll pay him a reasonable honorarium.
The specialist agrees to present a talk that GPs want or he tells you what he can speak about. Fine. Say the topic is "Role of ARBs in the management of BP". You the rep don't say anything re what the doc will say. You don't give him any slides etc.The spec. maybe a professor at university and he has his talk ready based on the currently available hard data-science. He comes to the meeting and presents the data he knows, has and believes it is the truth based on data. No pushing of your Diovan, no pushing of any other ARB but simly the fact the way they are. Period. No selling on Novartis behalf, but just the science and education of this peers. That is the way continuing med. education (CME) is supposed to be done. It is your job, afterwards to visit your docs and try to sell Diovan on its merits compared to others. The speaker is not "developed" as Novartis mouthpiece, hired gun but he/she is a true educator and objective one.
Well Novartis' marketing, sales and others people took this perfectly legal and ethical way of educating GPs and turned it into way of promoting their drugs by doing what is described by our writer above. Manipulation, bribery, pay-off, etc of the speakers and everyone else involved. It still looks as it is a legal CME, but in reality it is Novartis' show where the hired gun BSes the GPs pushing unjustifiably Diovan as the best and only ARB to use. He uses slides and data provided by Novartis and tells GPs the story Novartis told him to tell. This is wrong and illegal and unethical and you name it. What it is not true CME that it pretends to be. Lies. lies, lies,.....so no wonder your Co and bigpharma is nothnig but a BIG LIE.
This is just one of many exapmples wher the BigPharma takes a perfectly "normal" way of doing business and turne it into their crooked way of doing it, but still looking as "normal". This has been till now perhaps one of the best kept secrets of this and every other BigPharma Co. Not any more. The cat is out of the bag. Share your knowledge. They hate that.
 












Anonymous said:
"From the first day of my employment all the way until the very last day it was explained to me like this:

"Here is a list of the highest writing doctors in your territory, go sign up as many as you can to be a xxxxxxx speaker on behalf of Novartis."
"You will be evaluated every year on how many you sign up."

"If you don't sign any up, well you would not be around long enough to see how that turned out."

"Novartis has three times more registered speakers than actual sales reps in their U.S. Division. 3X!"

"To be certified as a XXXXXXX speaker, the doctor was flown to some place very nice and warm for a weekend of wining and dining. Whatever these docs wanted, all expenses were paid. As a small token of appreciation, a check from anywhere between $1500.00 to $3000.00 to go home with because really an all inclusive weekend vacation is not enough. These doctors really need some kicking around money. That kicking around money would be enough for me to take my entire family of four to Walt Disney World for a week. However, as sweet as this is, it only gets better. When a doctor gets back home, that's when the real money starts to flow. It goes something like this: I as your sales rep will set up as many real speaking engagements as I can for you. You may or may not show slides that were given to you BY Novartis. Hell, you may or may not have anyone show up at all to the lecture. It does not matter. The doctor/speaker gets treated to a very expensive dinner and drinks and walks away with a check from $ 500.00, for the lower writing doctors, to $ 5,000.00, for an actual thought leader.
If the doctor/speaker ever swayed other attending doctors to start prescribing your product than that was just a fringe benefit. The real purpose is to line that speaker's pockets with so much cash that when it comes time to put pen to Rx pad you already know what the results are going to be.
The results will be in your favor. Why?, because you bought and paid for it, that's why!"


"Take a perfectly legal way of doing business, turn it into corrupted, unethical, illegal, immoral...way of doing same business BUT make sure it still looks exactly as the legal way we twisted around".
Big Pharma leaders
Our friend WBer/book writer is describing above what Novartis worldwide calls "Speaker development program".
Here is how it should be working-legally: You, the rep find a leading specialist in your territory and ask him if he was willing to do the education of GPs via say dinner meetings you will arrange and pay for. For this you'll pay him a reasonable honorarium.
The specialist agrees to present a talk that GPs want or he tells you what he can speak about. Fine. Say the topic is "Role of ARBs in the management of BP". You the rep don't say anything re what the doc will say. You don't give him any slides etc.The spec. maybe a professor at university and he has his talk ready based on the currently available hard data-science. He comes to the meeting and presents the data he knows, has and believes it is the truth based on data. No pushing of your Diovan, no pushing of any other ARB but simly the fact the way they are. Period. No selling on Novartis behalf, but just the science and education of this peers. That is the way continuing med. education (CME) is supposed to be done. It is your job, afterwards to visit your docs and try to sell Diovan on its merits compared to others. The speaker is not "developed" as Novartis mouthpiece, hired gun but he/she is a true educator and objective one.
Well Novartis' marketing, sales and others people took this perfectly legal and ethical way of educating GPs and turned it into way of promoting their drugs by doing what is described by our writer above. Manipulation, bribery, pay-off, etc of the speakers and everyone else involved. It still looks as it is a legal CME, but in reality it is Novartis' show where the hired gun BSes the GPs pushing unjustifiably Diovan as the best and only ARB to use. He uses slides and data provided by Novartis and tells GPs the story Novartis told him to tell. This is wrong and illegal and unethical and you name it. What it is not true CME that it pretends to be. Lies. lies, lies,.....so no wonder your Co and bigpharma is nothnig but a BIG LIE.
This is just one of many exapmples wher the BigPharma takes a perfectly "normal" way of doing business and turne it into their crooked way of doing it, but still looking as "normal". This has been till now perhaps one of the best kept secrets of this and every other BigPharma Co. Not any more. The cat is out of the bag. Share your knowledge. They hate that.
Click to expand...

And then your manager asks you to "track" the physicians who attend these "speaker programs" to see how they are influenced. At our last DPM, our manager gave us the statistics on how much the physicians who attend these meetings prescribe more Novartis products and how we must do X number of programs and HAVE to have them on the books by X date. If you didn't have them entered, all HELL broke loose.

Isn't a tracker quid pro quo??? When I was with another pharma company a tracker was considered illegal. Hmmmmmm, wonder why Novartis doesn't see it that way? Could it be because it is conducting "business" in a completely unethical, illegal manner? No, no way would Novartis do that! Yeah, right...
 












Chicken wins said:
All right. Let's play chicken. Since you ARE a chicken I'll be a chef with a massive cleaver. So place your brainless head on this tree stump. We'll start the play and see who wins. Come on. That's it. Boom! Hey chicken, how come you head is there and your body is here. I guess you win.
Click to expand...

Did I at least run around a little first before I keeled over?

I bet that looked cool.

That will teach me to play with cleavers.
 






Chicken wins said:
All right. Let's play chicken. Since you ARE a chicken I'll be a chef with a massive cleaver. So place your brainless head on this tree stump. We'll start the play and see who wins. Come on. That's it. Boom! Hey chicken, how come you head is there and your body is here. I guess you win.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if that was a threat or just perhaps you used to work at a Tyson Chicken Slaughter Facility and still have some issues you are working out.

Either way my reply is simple...

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwk!

p.s. and if this is a threat towards our wb/author than...

Double Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwk!
 






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