Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Cost

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

"lunches where the docs come in for a minute, smile and wave and sign, and bolt."

We must be fairly successful during that minute otherwise you leftist morons wouldn't be so upset. Just imagine what we might accomplish with 2 minutes.

You can claim that pharmaceutical companies fake trials and are only interested in the bottomline, but are you really comfortable with government running our healthcare? Obamacare is an absolute JOKE and thankfully most Americans realize that, which is why it is still so unpopular. If Obamacare is a done-deal as you think, then America is a done-deal.

the reason why Obama Care is so "unpopular" is the same reason why we can persuade docs to write scripts for our brands and not generics - misinformation and the fact that unless there are other incentives people are free to believe and act on misinformation. We tell docs branded is better, it is no skin off of their noses if the patient's insurance is bilked for more money that is has to be so they write them. Fox News tells people that Obama Care is a Joke because govt in running it when it already is and the average Fox News watcher doesn't pay for his own healthcare anyway so they can believe what-ever-they-want.

I lived and worked for 6 years in Germany and there is NOTHING about their healthcare system that isn't superior to ours. My wife was born there, we met there, and my first child was born there. We moved back to the US because of my family and I took this job, schlocking drugs for Novartis, which to my everlasting shame and regret, I still have. I have been here 11 years, just completed my MPA and am looking to leave this shit behind me so fast and go to a big healthcare system' help them implement the changes required for Obama Care and rid themselves of the influence of people like I was! Adios MutherFuukers!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

"Allowing the federal government to force individuals to buy insurance as a requirement of merely being alive is the most dangerous precedent in my lifetime. Once you throw out The Constitution, where do you draw the line? "

The requirement for all individuals to purchase health insurance was first widely proposed by Conservatives and published in a series of studies by he Heritage Foundation. When Romney implemented it in MA it was basically seen, at the time, as a triumph for conservative principles. And it only "throw out the Constitution" to people like you. SCOTUS said it was ok except for one small part - forcing states to implement it or lose Federal Medicaid Funds. And many Republican Governors like Scott in Florida, Brewer in AZ and Christi in NJ are trying hard to implement it. I guess that Obama must be "black mailing" them or something huh?

Since you value the opinion of The Heritage Foundation, perhaps you should read what they think about Obamacare....
http://www.askheritage.org/is-president-obamas-individual-health-care-mandate-constitutional/

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

the reason why Obama Care is so "unpopular" is the same reason why we can persuade docs to write scripts for our brands and not generics - misinformation and the fact that unless there are other incentives people are free to believe and act on misinformation. We tell docs branded is better, it is no skin off of their noses if the patient's insurance is bilked for more money that is has to be so they write them. Fox News tells people that Obama Care is a Joke because govt in running it when it already is and the average Fox News watcher doesn't pay for his own healthcare anyway so they can believe what-ever-they-want.

I lived and worked for 6 years in Germany and there is NOTHING about their healthcare system that isn't superior to ours. My wife was born there, we met there, and my first child was born there. We moved back to the US because of my family and I took this job, schlocking drugs for Novartis, which to my everlasting shame and regret, I still have. I have been here 11 years, just completed my MPA and am looking to leave this shit behind me so fast and go to a big healthcare system' help them implement the changes required for Obama Care and rid themselves of the influence of people like I was! Adios MutherFuukers!

Germany is so great blah, blah, blah. The U.S sucks blah, blah, blah.... Yet where do you live? Believe me.... We ALL REGRET THAT YOU ARE HERE AS WELL. Nobody is keeping your sorry-ass here, GO THE FUCK BACK TO GERMANY!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Romneycare in Massachusetts was unprecedented in its mandate just like Obamacare. Who cares what SCOTUS said. It is a dangerous precedent which leads to a federal government with no bounds. If they can require this, what stops them from requiring anything else. NOTHING. This is a post-constitutional government with no bounds. This is not a D or R issue, this is a personal liberty issue.

"Who cares what SCOTUS said." Everyone who isn't like you? Like state laws outlawing interracial marriage, birth control etc, etc, and each time there were people who were saying what you are now. I am glad that SCOTUS decided those issues and I am glad that they have allowed the beginning of the process to legislate people like you out of our healthcare system. If what we have now is "post-constitutional government" then I can't wait for post-post-constitutional government. And calling this a "personal liberty issue" is like classifying the "Public Accommodations" Claus of the Civil Rights Laws a "personal liberty issue". All of these "libertarian ideas" were disposed of by most people in College Dorms rooms over a case of Lucky Lager Beer and discarded when we grew up. Grow up.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Since you value the opinion of The Heritage Foundation, perhaps you should read what they think about Obamacare....
http://www.askheritage.org/is-president-obamas-individual-health-care-mandate-constitutional/

This is what they say NOW. Why didn't you include the links to the thousands of pages published by the Heritage Foundation in the 1980's 1990's and early 2000's supporting the Individual Mandate? Do you know why, it would show that the Heritage Foundation is no longer credible on the subject. Besides the fact that their current postions are filled with factual errors. Sort of like the moist recent paper on immigration that used a researcher who's PhD thesis was racist.

Heritage and the Right Wing of the Republican Party fell off the edge of reality when Obama got elected.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

This is what they say NOW. Why didn't you include the links to the thousands of pages published by the Heritage Foundation in the 1980's 1990's and early 2000's supporting the Individual Mandate? Do you know why, it would show that the Heritage Foundation is no longer credible on the subject. Besides the fact that their current postions are filled with factual errors. Sort of like the moist recent paper on immigration that used a researcher who's PhD thesis was racist.

Heritage and the Right Wing of the Republican Party fell off the edge of reality when Obama got elected.

"Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long

The controversial individual mandate that was upheld Thursday by the U.S. Supreme Court stems back more than 20 years, believed to have originated with a prominent conservative think tank.

The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

The Heritage Foundation "substantially revised" its proposal four years later, according to a 1994 analysis by the Congressional Budget Office. But the idea of an individual health insurance mandate later appeared in two bills introduced by Republican lawmakers in 1993, according to the non-partisan research group ProCon.org. Among the supporters of the bills were senators Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who today oppose the mandate under current law."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...re-insurance-mandate-has-long-checkered-past/

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

This is what they say NOW. Why didn't you include the links to the thousands of pages published by the Heritage Foundation in the 1980's 1990's and early 2000's supporting the Individual Mandate? Do you know why, it would show that the Heritage Foundation is no longer credible on the subject. Besides the fact that their current postions are filled with factual errors. Sort of like the moist recent paper on immigration that used a researcher who's PhD thesis was racist.

Heritage and the Right Wing of the Republican Party fell off the edge of reality when Obama got elected.

"Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long

The controversial individual mandate that was upheld Thursday by the U.S. Supreme Court stems back more than 20 years, believed to have originated with a prominent conservative think tank.

The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

The Heritage Foundation "substantially revised" its proposal four years later, according to a 1994 analysis by the Congressional Budget Office. But the idea of an individual health insurance mandate later appeared in two bills introduced by Republican lawmakers in 1993, according to the non-partisan research group ProCon.org. Among the supporters of the bills were senators Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who today oppose the mandate under current law."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...re-insurance-mandate-has-long-checkered-past/

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

This is what they say NOW. Why didn't you include the links to the thousands of pages published by the Heritage Foundation in the 1980's 1990's and early 2000's supporting the Individual Mandate? Do you know why, it would show that the Heritage Foundation is no longer credible on the subject. Besides the fact that their current postions are filled with factual errors. Sort of like the moist recent paper on immigration that used a researcher who's PhD thesis was racist.

Heritage and the Right Wing of the Republican Party fell off the edge of reality when Obama got elected.

So I am confused.... The Heritage Foundation is a credible source or not? You referenced them, not me. You either accept their opinions or not... You can't have it both ways.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

So I am confused.... The Heritage Foundation is a credible source or not? You referenced them, not me. You either accept their opinions or not... You can't have it both ways.

You are right, you are confused. But you wouldn't be if wanted the facts. I referenced them as backing the mandates cynically changing their stance so that they wouldn't lose support from people like you who are so easily confused.

Still confused? Thought that you would be - fucking moron.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

"Think carefully, though, in making up your own mind about the mandate, particularly if you want to judge the policy on its merits. If you look to political leaders for insight, you’ll find major-league flip-flopping on both sides."

"The year was 1993. President Bill Clinton had proposed a complicated health bill, championed by First Lady Hillary Clinton, to insure every American through regional "health alliances." The plan required employers to pay for insurance, and it closely regulated insurers and health care providers through cost controls and purchasing groups.

In response, a group of Senate Republicans introduced their own plan, inspired by ideas from conservative think tanks in Washington like the Heritage Foundation. Their plan got rid of the Clintons’ employer mandate, and put the burden on individuals to have insurance — the individual mandate. The plan, one of several Republican alternatives, also created a universal tax deduction for health insurance and gave the poor vouchers to buy policies."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/25/switching-sides-individual-mandate/

The Flip-Flop for the Democrats was taking a proposal from the Republicans and passing it into law.

And the reason why the Heritage Foundation was credible when is proposed the mandate was that it was well argued and based on facts. Then, when they decided that it was politically expedient to change their stance on the policy they didn't even think to do so in a way that would preserve any hint of credibility. They didn't publish a set of new studies with reasoned postions based on additional facts now arguing against their former support of the mandate. They simply tried to dump all their former studies down the memory hole and published a new set, not supporting the mandate, now using facts in conflict with their original studies and based on silly arguments.

There are no reasoned arguments against the general concept of Obama Care because all the ones for it were previously made by those now against it.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

You are right, you are confused. But you wouldn't be if wanted the facts. I referenced them as backing the mandates cynically changing their stance so that they wouldn't lose support from people like you who are so easily confused.

Still confused? Thought that you would be - fucking moron.

No... You are confused. Heritage cynically stated the position of The Individual Mandate first in an attempt to reach-out to liberal morons such as yourself. Only later noting that the individual mandate is obviously unconstitutional to keep support for The Consitution.

Why did Obama promote Obamacare's individual mandate as a "penalty" to the public, refusing to call it a "tax", yet the ONLY way Obamacare got thru SCOTUS was by arguing that the mandate actually was a "tax"? Did he cynically change his stance? Did he lie? He sold the bill on total deception.

But even if the Obama administration is now admitting the individual mandate is a tax, that still does not make the law constitutional. Rather than operating as a tax on income, the mandate is a tax on the person and is, therefore, a capitation tax. So the 16th Amendments grant of power to Congress to assess an income tax does not apply. The Constitution does allow Congress to assess a capitation tax, but that requires the tax be assessed evenly based on population. That is not how the Obamacare mandate works. It exempts and carves out far too many exceptions to past muster as a capitation tax. The Obamacare mandate is still unprecedented and unconstitutional.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

"Think carefully, though, in making up your own mind about the mandate, particularly if you want to judge the policy on its merits. If you look to political leaders for insight, you’ll find major-league flip-flopping on both sides."

"The year was 1993. President Bill Clinton had proposed a complicated health bill, championed by First Lady Hillary Clinton, to insure every American through regional "health alliances." The plan required employers to pay for insurance, and it closely regulated insurers and health care providers through cost controls and purchasing groups.

In response, a group of Senate Republicans introduced their own plan, inspired by ideas from conservative think tanks in Washington like the Heritage Foundation. Their plan got rid of the Clintons’ employer mandate, and put the burden on individuals to have insurance — the individual mandate. The plan, one of several Republican alternatives, also created a universal tax deduction for health insurance and gave the poor vouchers to buy policies."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/25/switching-sides-individual-mandate/

The Flip-Flop for the Democrats was taking a proposal from the Republicans and passing it into law.

And the reason why the Heritage Foundation was credible when is proposed the mandate was that it was well argued and based on facts. Then, when they decided that it was politically expedient to change their stance on the policy they didn't even think to do so in a way that would preserve any hint of credibility. They didn't publish a set of new studies with reasoned postions based on additional facts now arguing against their former support of the mandate. They simply tried to dump all their former studies down the memory hole and published a new set, not supporting the mandate, now using facts in conflict with their original studies and based on silly arguments.

There are no reasoned arguments against the general concept of Obama Care because all the ones for it were previously made by those now against it.

OK, you two simply CANT be part of our field force. Identify yourselves, please! You both write well, and back your s**t up with credible sources. WELL DONE, BOTH!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

No... You are confused. Heritage cynically stated the position of The Individual Mandate first in an attempt to reach-out to liberal morons such as yourself. Only later noting that the individual mandate is obviously unconstitutional to keep support for The Consitution.

Why did Obama promote Obamacare's individual mandate as a "penalty" to the public, refusing to call it a "tax", yet the ONLY way Obamacare got thru SCOTUS was by arguing that the mandate actually was a "tax"? Did he cynically change his stance? Did he lie? He sold the bill on total deception.

But even if the Obama administration is now admitting the individual mandate is a tax, that still does not make the law constitutional. Rather than operating as a tax on income, the mandate is a tax on the person and is, therefore, a capitation tax. So the 16th Amendments grant of power to Congress to assess an income tax does not apply. The Constitution does allow Congress to assess a capitation tax, but that requires the tax be assessed evenly based on population. That is not how the Obamacare mandate works. It exempts and carves out far too many exceptions to past muster as a capitation tax. The Obamacare mandate is still unprecedented and unconstitutional.

....and poorly funded.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

No... You are confused. Heritage cynically stated the position of The Individual Mandate first in an attempt to reach-out to liberal morons such as yourself. Only later noting that the individual mandate is obviously unconstitutional to keep support for The Consitution.

Why did Obama promote Obamacare's individual mandate as a "penalty" to the public, refusing to call it a "tax", yet the ONLY way Obamacare got thru SCOTUS was by arguing that the mandate actually was a "tax"? Did he cynically change his stance? Did he lie? He sold the bill on total deception.

But even if the Obama administration is now admitting the individual mandate is a tax, that still does not make the law constitutional. Rather than operating as a tax on income, the mandate is a tax on the person and is, therefore, a capitation tax. So the 16th Amendments grant of power to Congress to assess an income tax does not apply. The Constitution does allow Congress to assess a capitation tax, but that requires the tax be assessed evenly based on population. That is not how the Obamacare mandate works. It exempts and carves out far too many exceptions to past muster as a capitation tax. The Obamacare mandate is still unprecedented and unconstitutional.

"You are confused. Heritage cynically stated the position of The Individual Mandate first in an attempt to reach-out to liberal morons such as yourself." Well it worked for "liberal morons" like Newt Gingrich, Orin Hatch and a major part of the Republican Party at the time.

"In 1993, in fighting HillaryCare, virtually every conservative saw the mandate as a less dangerous future than what Hillary was trying to do. The Heritage Foundation was a major advocate of it."

So let me get this straight, the Heritage Foundation and virtually every conservative thought that an obviously unconstitutional law was "less dangerous future"? So they proposed it, voted for it but it didn't pass so that they could then wait 20 odd years to decide that it was "dangerous". Only a moron like yourself would state that and hope that others would believe it.

And I will say this again. THE ONLY STNDARD, Thank God as it protects us from shit talking morons like you who think that they, like my sanctimoniously religious uncle who thinks that he gets to define what the Bible means, get to define what is and isn't Constitutional, THAT DEFINES WHAT IS AND ISN'T CONSTITUTIONAL IS SCOTUS. Your opinions matter about as much as the dingle berries clinging to the hairs around my ass. Even with your attempts at illuminating us with the finer points of Tax and the Constitution. I mean, too bad the LOOSING SIDE, didn't have you to help them argue. There must be a non-obvious reason why they didn't see fit to include you on their team?

But no matter. Here is what will play out. This is the pinnacle of power for the stupid arguments, as you have given us an example of here, within the political system of the US. Despite your diatribes I my first vote was for Reagan and I never voted for a Dem until the last election when I voted for Obama. I also financially supported Republicans for 32 years even in 2010 with the rise of the "Tea Baggers". That year I sent money to every crazy Tea Bagger Candidate that I could and this last presidential election I did the same for every fringe Republican that I could. Now, I send money to Rand Paul. My hope is that he, along with others, will continue to push the party so far to the Right that it will either implode or change.

With the the current Democratic Party embracing once conservative but now centrist views like the individual mandate, fighting man-made climate change etc etc, that is a no-lose situation for me and the country. With the current Republican Party out of the way they can go full speed ahead with all of these. And one of the biggest is to excise Big Pharma from the body of the US Economy from which it has been parasitizing for the last 20 plus years, just as the article describing the study, copied in the first post above, proves.

You, your arguments, your beliefs are just like your profession and industry - mostly outdated and only need help to end up where they deserve, in the bone yard of history.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

....and poorly funded.

It is self funded, read the original Heritage papers on the subject.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Talking about conflict of interests, sounds like Science Daily did a study with the intent to eliminate its competition and be the sole source of " unbiased" information.... How amusing!

Odd how none of us ever want to discuss declining access to our top docs. We all know what it means for our long-term future, but hope that we can squeeze out another few years of getting paid to live the good life.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

"You are confused. Heritage cynically stated the position of The Individual Mandate first in an attempt to reach-out to liberal morons such as yourself." Well it worked for "liberal morons" like Newt Gingrich, Orin Hatch and a major part of the Republican Party at the time.

"In 1993, in fighting HillaryCare, virtually every conservative saw the mandate as a less dangerous future than what Hillary was trying to do. The Heritage Foundation was a major advocate of it."

So let me get this straight, the Heritage Foundation and virtually every conservative thought that an obviously unconstitutional law was "less dangerous future"? So they proposed it, voted for it but it didn't pass so that they could then wait 20 odd years to decide that it was "dangerous". Only a moron like yourself would state that and hope that others would believe it.

And I will say this again. THE ONLY STNDARD, Thank God as it protects us from shit talking morons like you who think that they, like my sanctimoniously religious uncle who thinks that he gets to define what the Bible means, get to define what is and isn't Constitutional, THAT DEFINES WHAT IS AND ISN'T CONSTITUTIONAL IS SCOTUS. Your opinions matter about as much as the dingle berries clinging to the hairs around my ass. Even with your attempts at illuminating us with the finer points of Tax and the Constitution. I mean, too bad the LOOSING SIDE, didn't have you to help them argue. There must be a non-obvious reason why they didn't see fit to include you on their team?

But no matter. Here is what will play out. This is the pinnacle of power for the stupid arguments, as you have given us an example of here, within the political system of the US. Despite your diatribes I my first vote was for Reagan and I never voted for a Dem until the last election when I voted for Obama. I also financially supported Republicans for 32 years even in 2010 with the rise of the "Tea Baggers". That year I sent money to every crazy Tea Bagger Candidate that I could and this last presidential election I did the same for every fringe Republican that I could. Now, I send money to Rand Paul. My hope is that he, along with others, will continue to push the party so far to the Right that it will either implode or change.

With the the current Democratic Party embracing once conservative but now centrist views like the individual mandate, fighting man-made climate change etc etc, that is a no-lose situation for me and the country. With the current Republican Party out of the way they can go full speed ahead with all of these. And one of the biggest is to excise Big Pharma from the body of the US Economy from which it has been parasitizing for the last 20 plus years, just as the article describing the study, copied in the first post above, proves.

You, your arguments, your beliefs are just like your profession and industry - mostly outdated and only need help to end up where they deserve, in the bone yard of history.

You keep upholding the mandate as some pillar of conservatism because ONE LONE GUY from Heritage wrote an article discussing it. That's what Heritage does, they have discussion to try and find solutions to problems. Heritage has since realized that the mandate is NOT a viable conservative solution. I can't find one prominent conservative who ever embraced this idea.... and NO, Romney does not count. NOBODY EVER CONSIDERED Romney a true conservative.

If you want to talk about cynical flip-flops, you need look no further than 2008 when Obama was running against Hilary. Hilary was for an individual mandate and Obama was not. What happened???

Now that the U.S. government can force its citizens to purchase health care, what stops them from forcing us to buy Government-Motors, Chevy Volts? What stops them from forcing us to eat what they approve? What stops them from anything. I know you are blinded by LOVE for Obama and hatred for free-markets, but if you can't see what a dangerous precedent this is, then you are HOPELESS.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

I'm damn tired of paying my money - that I earned - for somebody else that doesn't or hasn't.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

Odd how none of us ever want to discuss declining access to our top docs. We all know what it means for our long-term future, but hope that we can squeeze out another few years of getting paid to live the good life.

How about when your access as a patient is limited? Thank you Obamacare!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breakup of Physician, Drug Company Relationship Could Improve Health Care, Cut Co

I'm damn tired of paying my money - that I earned - for somebody else that doesn't or hasn't.

The study cited in the first post above proves that you didn't earn most of what you were paid since 72% of what pharma sells is unneeded so it seems that as soon as you pay that back you can complain?