Bone Growth Stimulator - your advice?

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Anonymous said:
Yes, our heal rates are actually 10%. You are right and you don't need a source to prove your theory. Somehow we are #1 in market share and I still don't get it.

As far as fraud, all the companies (inc DJO) have had reps who were caught doing stupid stuff in the past. Moving forward if anybody from any company messes with Medicare, they will be FUCKED.

In the meantime I will continue to kill DJO out here and take the fx's before they become nonunion.

By the way, I do 200K+. Go work for a stable company. Blackstone is just going to spit you out and sell you off again.
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Just FYI Orthofix purchased blackstone, so I don't think the parent company is to worried about being sold.
 












I am interviewing for an ATM position with Orthofix to get into medical from B2B. If I dont get a territory within 2 years what other companies would look at me with just the ATM experience or would I just have to lie on my resume and say I was a TM?
 






Uhhh, I would take a look at the latest meta analysis that was done in the Nov JBJS showing that basically bone stimulators dont work. You might have a little better job security jumping on board with GM or Chrysler!
Now grant you, this was a long bone study, not spine. I do think they work in the spine... but then again, I was a big believer in the efficacy for long bone fractures as well.
Might want to do some DD before jumping into this job.
 
























Anonymous said:
It is called bad debt write-off. Exogen writes off so much revenue as bad debt because carriers simply won't pay for fresh fx. Facts are facts.

I used to work for them and I know first hand about it.
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I know where it comes from (bad debt), but I'd never heard an exact number. And what does it matter if its spun off as bad debt, the patient still gets the unit, and I am generally still getting paid as a rep.

I currently sell Exogen and would be interested in knowing where you went after leaving. I've always been skeptical as to what types of doors bone-stim selling opens (or fails to open) for a rep.
 






Anonymous said:
To all of you team exogen fans out there... take a step back and look at basic technology.

Ultrasound waves attenuate through tissue, its a known fact that the signal strength is lost as is passes through soft tissue, bone, etc. Knowing that; how is it possible that a 20 minute ultrasound treatment to a distal radius fracture can be as effective as a 20 minute ultrasound treatment to a midshaft femur fracture. Simply stated, it cant. Exogen was given FDA labeling based on retrospective studies that would never meet today's standards. S and N should be thankful that they are even in the marketplace.

Additionally, with the questionable ethics and practices of their field sales force, I'm sure they won't be a big player over the next few years. Reps giving free units to Medicare patients, falsifying documents, forgery of MD signatures... no holds are barred with those guys. Funny thing is that a good competitive rep can take all of the business with ease... providing honesty and unparalleled customer service coupled with a quality product like DJO's CMF. I've taken a territory from nothing to over 80,000 in revenue per month in only 4 months on the job. Pacing for an easy 150 grand this year. Have fun with your free units and placing patients who dont meet criteria. Department of Justice hearings should be a good time!
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Retrospective?? Its PROSPECTIVE. You can't show anything on retrospective because you made it up. Probably what you do on the job anyway.

http://bme.sunysb.edu/people/faculty/docs/crubin/2001-JBJS-ultrasound.pdf
 












Anonymous said:
You don't know what a retrospective study is?

Lets give you a little lesson in latin word roots:

Retro:Back
Pro: Forward

Go give away some free units you dickbag.
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You just proved you are a DUMBASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Can you read? Read the link. The studies done were prospective not retrospective. And you fucked up again by changing the top to defining retro and pro to cover your sorry ass. Then you cover your ass by changing the subject to free units.

Just get back in your hole. You have nothing.
 






simply put, orthofix cannot show with a single gold standard study, thats been peer reviewed and published that their product even works. Orthofix can throw marketing literature all it wants but the facts are facts. Might as well start doing late night orthofix infomercials. As for the signal fading on an ultrasound unit, thats incorrect. As the human body is mostly made up of water AND sound travels better through water, its a simple concept to grasp. The ultrasound signal travels over 15" before it begins to fade. 99% of the people on the plant have bones within 15" of their skin surface. That 1% have much bigger issues than fracture healing.
 












Anonymous said:
simply put, orthofix cannot show with a single gold standard study, thats been peer reviewed and published that their product even works. Orthofix can throw marketing literature all it wants but the facts are facts. Might as well start doing late night orthofix infomercials. As for the signal fading on an ultrasound unit, thats incorrect. As the human body is mostly made up of water AND sound travels better through water, its a simple concept to grasp. The ultrasound signal travels over 15" before it begins to fade. 99% of the people on the plant have bones within 15" of their skin surface. That 1% have much bigger issues than fracture healing.
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Let's see proof for all the Exogen BS you are spewing. 15" penetration depth?? Come on.
Prove it. How stupid are you? It is a class III medical device, it has to be approved by the FDA for efficacy and was, long before Exogen. Remember folks, 5% of fx's go on to non-unions. 5%! Having insurance companies and the federal govt. spend money on something (exogen) that is going to be used on fractures that would heal 95% of the time anyway is a waste of ALL of our money.
 


















Anonymous said:
Let's see proof for all the Exogen BS you are spewing. 15" penetration depth?? Come on.
Prove it. How stupid are you? It is a class III medical device, it has to be approved by the FDA for efficacy and was, long before Exogen. Remember folks, 5% of fx's go on to non-unions. 5%! Having insurance companies and the federal govt. spend money on something (exogen) that is going to be used on fractures that would heal 95% of the time anyway is a waste of ALL of our money.
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Sounds like a guy jealus of the coverage for Exogen. The heal rates on femurs prove it. Face it, insurance companies save money from preventing surgery. For one surgery you can reimburse for 7-10 Exogens. Do the math. Insurance spends more on surgeries that are unncessary than anything else. Exogen is for hard to heal fractures and/or with the presence of comorbidities where they can lead to delayed union and a doc operating on again. Nice spin though by using percentages though.
 






Anonymous said:
Sounds like a guy jealus of the coverage for Exogen. The heal rates on femurs prove it. Face it, insurance companies save money from preventing surgery. For one surgery you can reimburse for 7-10 Exogens. Do the math. Insurance spends more on surgeries that are unncessary than anything else. Exogen is for hard to heal fractures and/or with the presence of comorbidities where they can lead to delayed union and a doc operating on again. Nice spin though by using percentages though.
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Total BS and you know it. You talk to every doctor about putting you POS on every single patient to AVOID having to go to surgery down the road. Well if 95% of fx's heal on their own I still don't see your logic. You are in lala land my friend...
 






Sounds like 1:00, and 1:06 up there need to stop bickering about technology and get off their asses and sell. Anyone outside of the corporate mongoloids at training programs understands that the doctors don't give half a shit about bone-stims. They try them out, sometimes are convinced by their results, and then either become a consistent orderer or a 1-3 a year guy. Just sell the shit, bust your ass, treat the patients like gold so you get some positive feedback, and you'll make money. (My experience, at least, in the SW USA)

But can we SSSSTTTOOOPPPPP with the bullshit PEMF vs CMF vs LIpUS bickering? If you can sell like a professional, it shouldn't matter... I could take all of your docs peddling a duracell battery soldered to a coat hanger.

The gospel according to John, thanks be to god.
 






Anonymous said:
Total BS and you know it. You talk to every doctor about putting you POS on every single patient to AVOID having to go to surgery down the road. Well if 95% of fx's heal on their own I still don't see your logic. You are in lala land my friend...
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Looks like my response was lost.

First, you are using the 5% figure misrepresent. There are easy fractures to heal and hard to heal fractures. It is all related to blood flow, ask a Trauma surgeon. Your hard to heal are 5th metatarsal, scaphoid, distal tibia, etc esp with comorbidities. There are at least 9 of them. They account for at least a 1/4 of all fractures and the nonunion heal rate is at least doubled to 10%

Second, again you are missing the big picture. 7-10 Exogens for one surgery. That means we have to get it once just right out of 7-10. We can make the same argument regarding surgeries that a patient may heal without or if a patient can heal from a delayed union rather than use an electrical stim. Docs do this because it WORKS. Duh.

Third, you seem very frustrated. Relax. When i hear you use the word POS, I am pretty sure that you are upset that you are getting your ass kicked in your territory and saw the JBJS study that says your product does not work.
 






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