<5% Market Share

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Anonymous said:
Not completely true. If I recall correctly from when I worked with Bio a few years back, they had a problem with ICD batteries and/or capacitors. There were only 400ish total implants but I believe the failure rate was around 16%. A 16% percent failure rate is a 16% failure rate. You can't hide that. Bio was handed an official Class I recall.
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this is an old fight song, "you don't have enough implants to see a problem". yeh, whatever. i've seen 3 generations of Bio ICDs since 2008. i've personally witnessed over 400 ICD implants in my own territory. today, i checked a patient implanted with a lumax 340 (we are now implanting 540's and 740's). that lumax 340 shocked a VF at 300bpm and saved the life of this particular patient. type 2 break but nonetheless the device detected and charged appropiately and this patient is still here today.

my marketshare is well above the less than 5% of this thread. we may be a me too company in many respects but many of us were tired of being with the big 3 and having to explain recalls and dear doctor letters to our customers and patients of those customers. so far, over here, that has not been a problem. sure, there has been mud slinging concerning the NYTimes article about Vegas (which we all know was just propaganda to slow the roll). but, in honest truth, the guys in my area (bio reps) are basically reps from other companies that are now with bio and working their asses off doing the same thing we did for BSX or STJ.

we have a great LV lead delivery system to go with an AICD that is still smaller than STJ or MDT with a sub 30cc on the way. our biV pacer (Evia HF) recently launched has gotta be second to none in features and longevity now.

got good stuff over here and the pay is awesome.

marketshare has never been a great need of mine. i've learned from being in pharma that the Merck's will never pay as well as the smaller pharma companies.

at the end of the day, I want the pay to go with the effort I put in everyday. with Bio, I'm compensated for that effort much better than the others.

isn't that the American way?
 






Anonymous said:
this is an old fight song, "you don't have enough implants to see a problem". yeh, whatever. i've seen 3 generations of Bio ICDs since 2008. i've personally witnessed over 400 ICD implants in my own territory. today, i checked a patient implanted with a lumax 340 (we are now implanting 540's and 740's). that lumax 340 shocked a VF at 300bpm and saved the life of this particular patient. type 2 break but nonetheless the device detected and charged appropiately and this patient is still here today.

my marketshare is well above the less than 5% of this thread. we may be a me too company in many respects but many of us were tired of being with the big 3 and having to explain recalls and dear doctor letters to our customers and patients of those customers. so far, over here, that has not been a problem. sure, there has been mud slinging concerning the NYTimes article about Vegas (which we all know was just propaganda to slow the roll). but, in honest truth, the guys in my area (bio reps) are basically reps from other companies that are now with bio and working their asses off doing the same thing we did for BSX or STJ.

we have a great LV lead delivery system to go with an AICD that is still smaller than STJ or MDT with a sub 30cc on the way. our biV pacer (Evia HF) recently launched has gotta be second to none in features and longevity now.

got good stuff over here and the pay is awesome.

marketshare has never been a great need of mine. i've learned from being in pharma that the Merck's will never pay as well as the smaller pharma companies.

at the end of the day, I want the pay to go with the effort I put in everyday. with Bio, I'm compensated for that effort much better than the others.

isn't that the American way?
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BLOW HARD! I mean that in many ways. Your story is old and tired.
 






Anonymous said:
BLOW HARD! I mean that in many ways. Your story is old and tired.
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here's what is so funny : your negativity. who do you work for? are you happy? if so, why spew on others? i could care less about the other 4 companies. if you work at mdt you have a lot of perks. if you work at stj you've been killin it for years. if you work at bsx you are an EP company that has been through much tough times but hung in there.

blow hard? what the fuck is that? go blow your Dad. your bitterness tells me you are a jealous little bitch that wishes his paycheck was bigger.

4 more years. get ready for device company layoffs. compensation reductions. gnite!
 






First of all I dont believe that you were too tired of explaining all those problems with the big 3 device companies. I think that you were let go. Or are you going to say that finally you came home and told your wife that "I cant do this anymore talking to the patient and implanters and this is just so frustrating that I'm going to quit". That doesnt make any sense!

I dont believe you either when you say you work hard for what you get paid. You likely cover 3-4 cases per week.

And the other point you have yet to mention is that all of your implants were due to the fact that you use clinicals to induce implants with you rather than just manning up and selling without the payment to the doc.
 






Anonymous said:
here's what is so funny : your negativity. who do you work for? are you happy? if so, why spew on others? i could care less about the other 4 companies. if you work at mdt you have a lot of perks. if you work at stj you've been killin it for years. if you work at bsx you are an EP company that has been through much tough times but hung in there.

blow hard? what the fuck is that? go blow your Dad. your bitterness tells me you are a jealous little bitch that wishes his paycheck was bigger.

4 more years. get ready for device company layoffs. compensation reductions. gnite!
Click to expand...

I love what I do for the pt's and I'm fairly rewarded. BIO's idea of "work" and what others at the big 3 consider are work, are 2, totally, different concepts. Here's how work, or don't do business;
- I do not consider 4 implants a month, "work".
- I do not bait my implanters with "clinical training$$$"
- I never discuss paychecks with competition
- I never pretend my product is equal to or better than another company. I don't have to.
- I don't usually respond to idiots like you
- I never beg for business
- I never hear a BIO person speak about pt care.

You work for a little meaningless company that will either be purchased by one of the Big3 or squeezed out of all acct's. BIO is 100% relationship driven and that is a dead-end but you hang in there and keep perfecting your ass kissing skills while I lock in multi-year, large account device agreements with very limited service burden. You'll be selling used cars soon.
 






Anonymous said:
I love what I do for the pt's and I'm fairly rewarded. BIO's idea of "work" and what others at the big 3 consider are work, are 2, totally, different concepts. Here's how work, or don't do business;
- I do not consider 4 implants a month, "work".
- I do not bait my implanters with "clinical training$$$"
- I never discuss paychecks with competition
- I never pretend my product is equal to or better than another company. I don't have to.
- I don't usually respond to idiots like you
- I never beg for business
- I never hear a BIO person speak about pt care.

You work for a little meaningless company that will either be purchased by one of the Big3 or squeezed out of all acct's. BIO is 100% relationship driven and that is a dead-end but you hang in there and keep perfecting your ass kissing skills while I lock in multi-year, large account device agreements with very limited service burden. You'll be selling used cars soon.
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heard it all before. 4 implants a month? lol, okay. i agree with you on that one. meaningless training? step back on that one. medtronic "baits" physicians with fellows programs, training sites, and other boondoggle setups to entice and prolong business. the DOJ has clearly found MDT guilty and you have paid fines for enticing doctors and illegal "studies". so, get off your horse there buddy.

you don't discuss paychecks with competition? who does? you also don't discuss your 4 inch with someone you know has an 8 inch. get it?

pretending to have a better product? nobody does that better than big blue. you've stolen more technology and touted it as yours than anyone in CRM. MVP was an algorithm on Guidant devices 4 years prior to your launch. You were late to market with BiV technology and your lame company thought that the BiV pacer would be the market leader. How EPs have forgiven you...........I do not know. LOL. Yes, I do know. But, who cares.

No, you don't beg for business .........you have dominant marketshare and your pager is blowing up. I agree with you there. But, if you consider actually having to "sell" to a doctor ....."begging" then your wife must own your punk ass.

You never hear a Bio rep speaking to patient care because your head is too far up your ass to hear anything but yourself. Regardless of which company we work for (including Sorin), most have patient care as a first. That's what makes what we do so unique (IMHO).

I do agree with your concept on the "contractual" strategies. That's a very obvious movement that is happening. You and I will both see what happens with that strategy as there is a document moving up to the Supreme Court as we speak that will prevent companies from being blocked from doing business where local and state tax paying patients are served. If that bill passes then you are fucked.

As for selling cars, that makes no sense. I can easily get a job working with the big 3 if I want to take a pay cut. Heck, I'm already checking all of your devices and getting the changeouts as it is.
 






Anonymous said:
First of all I dont believe that you were too tired of explaining all those problems with the big 3 device companies. I think that you were let go. Or are you going to say that finally you came home and told your wife that "I cant do this anymore talking to the patient and implanters and this is just so frustrating that I'm going to quit". That doesnt make any sense!

I dont believe you either when you say you work hard for what you get paid. You likely cover 3-4 cases per week.

And the other point you have yet to mention is that all of your implants were due to the fact that you use clinicals to induce implants with you rather than just manning up and selling without the payment to the doc.
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3-4 cases per week is the equivalent of 15-20 cases per week for the big 3. there is no inducement strategy. nobody wants to go to jail dude. i know how you get your business (relationships, brand, habit). i know how I get mine (the same.......just not a long in the tooth).

get over yourself.
 






Anonymous said:
heard it all before. 4 implants a month? lol, okay. i agree with you on that one. meaningless training? step back on that one. medtronic "baits" physicians with fellows programs, training sites, and other boondoggle setups to entice and prolong business. the DOJ has clearly found MDT guilty and you have paid fines for enticing doctors and illegal "studies". so, get off your horse there buddy.

you don't discuss paychecks with competition? who does? you also don't discuss your 4 inch with someone you know has an 8 inch. get it?

pretending to have a better product? nobody does that better than big blue. you've stolen more technology and touted it as yours than anyone in CRM. MVP was an algorithm on Guidant devices 4 years prior to your launch. You were late to market with BiV technology and your lame company thought that the BiV pacer would be the market leader. How EPs have forgiven you...........I do not know. LOL. Yes, I do know. But, who cares.

No, you don't beg for business .........you have dominant marketshare and your pager is blowing up. I agree with you there. But, if you consider actually having to "sell" to a doctor ....."begging" then your wife must own your punk ass.

You never hear a Bio rep speaking to patient care because your head is too far up your ass to hear anything but yourself. Regardless of which company we work for (including Sorin), most have patient care as a first. That's what makes what we do so unique (IMHO).

I do agree with your concept on the "contractual" strategies. That's a very obvious movement that is happening. You and I will both see what happens with that strategy as there is a document moving up to the Supreme Court as we speak that will prevent companies from being blocked from doing business where local and state tax paying patients are served. If that bill passes then you are fucked.

As for selling cars, that makes no sense. I can easily get a job working with the big 3 if I want to take a pay cut. Heck, I'm already checking all of your devices and getting the changeouts as it is.
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I'm not the guy you're responding to but you should know for clarification. Sorin invented MVP. They have a shared licensing agreement with Big Blue that goes back quite awhile.
 


















Anonymous said:
It is all about SubQ now. How are Bio's plans with the HV device in SubQ region?
I heard animal tests went well. Anyone heard the latest?
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SubQ will never take off. If any of you guys want low hanging profits....get into the implantable/injectable loop recorder business. In-office procedures will soon be the norm then you lock in the device when you detect an issue....simple business plan yet so under utilized.
 






Anonymous said:
SubQ will never take off. If any of you guys want low hanging profits....get into the implantable/injectable loop recorder business. In-office procedures will soon be the norm then you lock in the device when you detect an issue....simple business plan yet so under utilized.
Click to expand...

freeze the fat, laser the tatoos, etc.
 






I agree w most that has be posted so far. I still see in my territory that the ONLY way that biotronic gets any implants is by offering clinical studies! Its only the EP's who are willing to take $$$$ for research/clinicals/training/coaching new employees who are implanting. ALL other implanters simply dont touch biotronic. And all of the other non biotronic implanters ALL talk about and look down on the money hungry bio implanters. Its like the non EP's say "THERE IS A REASON THAT BIO ONLY HAS 3% MARKET SHARE". The are the KIA of car sales.
 






Anonymous said:
I agree w most that has be posted so far. I still see in my territory that the ONLY way that biotronic gets any implants is by offering clinical studies! Its only the EP's who are willing to take $$$$ for research/clinicals/training/coaching new employees who are implanting. ALL other implanters simply dont touch biotronic. And all of the other non biotronic implanters ALL talk about and look down on the money hungry bio implanters. Its like the non EP's say "THERE IS A REASON THAT BIO ONLY HAS 3% MARKET SHARE". The are the KIA of car sales.
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BIO reps are their biggest enemies...it's not the competition. Physicians all know, because BIO reps brag about it, that they only have to put in a couple devices a month compared to 15-20 devices others have to do and they view this as obnoxious and lazy. As physicians make less $ this becomes more of an obstacle for BIO.

So please keep telling us how much make and little you do and rub it in everyone's face! It's a great business plan.
 






I'm just amazed at you people. Bio gets slammed for lack of share. Bio get slammed for too much business. Bio reps gets slammed for not making any money. Bio reps get slammed for making too much money. On a Medtronic thread, I saw where MDT reps (stent reps) were being slammed for making 200K for doing nothing more than buying lunch and setting up tables hoping that docs would stop by and talk to them.

It's becoming quite obvious to me that many on this board are either clinical reps or just plain losers. You are always bitching and speaking down on someone from your perch.

If Bio reps only have 3% then I'm quite sure they aren't making so much money that they are turning off other physicians. Physicians have relationships and they are very loyal. If they aren't using a company because the reps are cocky then I'd swear they wouldn't be using Medtronic. MDT are the cockiest sons of bitches in the land but they still keep getting the business. Why? Because their business plan is simple. They were first to market n CRM, have become mainstream through their positions at teaching hospitals and have very good technology. Simple stuff.

I think the smart doctor out there sees that Bio doesn't brag (about technology, salary, etc). But, Bio reps will respond back to the constant crap put on this board. I think the thread began with "only less than 5% share". I guess Citibank analysts were wrong two years ago when they stated it was more 7-8% share.

But, who knows and who cares. I don't see Bio reps rolling around in Bentleys and sending all of their kids to Harvard. I can assure you that if they weren't making a decent living that they would be out of the business. I'm guessing that Bio's volume may not be where the bigger companies are but the work effort to actually EARN the business is much steeper than the big 3.

Will Bio ever overcome the "stigma" or "perception" that the Big 3 has done a good job of putting out there in regards to selling tactics and such? I don't know. I do know that the DOJ is still in business and has already nailed the big 3 for numerous violations. I do know that Bio brass is about as stern as any company I've ever worked with when it comes to ethics. They know that if they screw up then they will go down fast (ie the bogus NYT article a couple of years ago).

Don't cry that lame ass "the doctors are struggling therefore they like the big 3 better". That's the most ridiculous thing I've seen in awhile. It's the big 3 companies that have given our industry a bad image with the guaranteed contracts, EA's, etc.

Obama won the other night because idiots like you think like you do. Transformation is coming in CRM as well. It will only take more crap like what St Jude is facing. YOu will see.
 












Anonymous said:
I agree w most that has be posted so far. I still see in my territory that the ONLY way that biotronic gets any implants is by offering clinical studies! Its only the EP's who are willing to take $$$$ for research/clinicals/training/coaching new employees who are implanting. ALL other implanters simply dont touch biotronic. And all of the other non biotronic implanters ALL talk about and look down on the money hungry bio implanters. Its like the non EP's say "THERE IS A REASON THAT BIO ONLY HAS 3% MARKET SHARE". The are the KIA of car sales.
Click to expand...

The glass house that some folks live in is just amusing..... I work in a lab that does about 400 devices a year. 90% of those implants are enrolled into some type of 'study'. MDT has 75% of the business, BSX the other 25%. Yes, BIO does about 10 - 20 devices a year and yes they are enrolled into a study. My point is this.... to say that BIO is the only company using clinical studies to either drive, support or maintain business in the name of science is a crock of shit.
 






Anyone can look up what studies everyone is doing... Biotronik has only 2 main CRM trials that are open for enrollment... One is an IDE trial obviously FDA mandated and the other is HF related dealing with narrow QRS and dissynchrony... Which is way more work than you get paid for. The only ones doing it love research... The days of BS trial are over... Anyone who says differently is just trying to make excuses for getting their ass handed to them by Biotronik
 


















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