Why is Pfizer hiring contract reps to sell Tofa??

[Anonymous]

RHU specialty rep here: saw a tofa job posting today not for CSO but direct hire for pfe. What i noted and scoffed at was a line item that said ability to do "certifications, training, maintain records etc, during OFF TERRITORY hours". um exactly what does that mean...yes its a pfizer job ...but you're only allowed to do non-sellign things when you're on our own personal time. Well, if um doing pfizer stuff, then that's not my personal time then is it ? I dont care if its on territory or off territory..whatver you want to call it, if its relatred to the job itself then it is 100% "on territory" time...no matter when its being done or where.

LOL..take a hike pfizer. no interest ! LOL.

 

[Anonymous]

RHU specialty rep here: saw a tofa job posting today not for CSO but direct hire for pfe. What i noted and scoffed at was a line item that said ability to do "certifications, training, maintain records etc, during OFF TERRITORY hours". um exactly what does that mean...yes its a pfizer job ...but you're only allowed to do non-sellign things when you're on our own personal time. Well, if um doing pfizer stuff, then that's not my personal time then is it ? I dont care if its on territory or off territory..whatver you want to call it, if its relatred to the job itself then it is 100% "on territory" time...no matter when its being done or where.

LOL..take a hike pfizer. no interest ! LOL.

Well, this sounds better than the Regional Account Manager - Turkey

I thought they meant the country turkey at first, but in this job, you really sell products to turkeys.

This is so funny:

"This position is the primary representative for all Pfizer Animal Health poultry products for Turkey Accounts acrosss the U.S"

https://jobs.pfizer.com/psc/recruit/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/LSYS_DEVELOPMENT.Z_PFIZER_JOBS.GBL

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldnt trust the leadership of the CSO company in question. They can't manage themselves and are untrustworthy and are gathering more and more distrusted ex-PFE'rs. why would you go there? We have the right talent and leadership right here already.

I'll give you three that I've heard from people here in my building:

Because with this CSO, you can get 2 ex-PFE reps or managers at less than half of what you can get one here for. Loosely speaking.

Because those ex-PFE reps are often more experienced than what is left here. And they'll all try to get hired back on to a real job, so they'll work very hard.

Because that's what our consulting companies recommended that we do. And at the cost of their $10 MM fees, you know that we're going to do what they recommend. Same reason a highly paid rookie starts over a more experienced, but cheaper player: "we paid all this money for him, so we don't want him to ride the bench". Silly, if you ask me.

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldnt trust the leadership of the CSO company in question. They can't manage themselves and are untrustworthy and are gathering more and more distrusted ex-PFE'rs. why would you go there? We have the right talent and leadership right here already.

Pfizers Leadership and talent are stuck in time from a decade ago when feet on the ground and call frequency sent our customers into lockout mode. Pfizer won't change at the dm and mid manager level even though they talk about it all the time. It is all lip service and they keep forcing the reps who know better to keep playing the old game. The Publicis reps on this new contract will be managed by call reach and frequency not productivity. The management of this contract is more likely to be the Rheum sales managers not the pcbu and even though that means mostly legacy Wyeth managers the contract will dictate the selling behaviors more than management style.

 

[Anonymous]

A much better reply, but you're missing the point. I have been exposed to docs throughout my region, so my impression is not based on one territory, or one district or one small geographic area of the country. This is what I have heard across many districts, and what has been reported to me. I also am fortunate enough to have befriended many residents from my stay as an IHR, and give their feedback as well. We simply don't have the good favor and respect that we once did. Period.

It just makes good economic sense to go the contract rep route at this point. Look, I know that I'm kicking my own ass here, but I know of what I speak.

Next point: name me some big dollar volume potential drug classes where there isn't a ream of generics just sitting there waiting to take up the top 3 spots on a managed care prior auth list.

When I started the biggest drug classes were ACEs, ARBs (relatively new), CCBs (on their way down), depression and anxiety meds, ulcers, LRI and URIs, UTIs, clot-busters, oral and injectable diabetes meds, impotence (brilliantly renamed ED by Pfizer), and cholesterol meds.
Even though I obviously favored our drugs, most reviews like the medical letter frequently stated that the meds in each class were very similar (thus, the old term "me too"). any med coming out now will have to prove superiority over tried and true generics like metformin for diabetes or zithromax for RTIs. GOOD LUCK ON THAT ONE!

So where do we go to get new blockbusters? Obesity? Good luck with that one. Diabetes? Please, there are some good generics already,and some of the current meds will be hard to beat out once they go off patent. Cancers? We're trying that already. Some type of mental disorder? Highly unlikely.

Until we can start cranking out profitable first or best-in-class meds like we once did, our company will continue to do what its competitors are doing: slashing the # of, and payout to, the field force.

Guess we can agree to disagree. Very few pharma companies have the goodwill they once did, but you seem to feel that has to be permanent; I don't. Again, I am confident that there is a cyclical nature to many things in business, and very little that has brought pharma down (and Pfizer in particular) cannot be rectified with new, novel drugs, more genuine and competent management, and an improving economy. Pharma is a convenient scapegoat for politicians, the medical community, and the general public during a major time of upheaval; admittedly some of the criticism is fair and some of our wounds were stupidly self-inflicted.

You seem to feel that there are no major advances in medicine to be made; I have to disagree, whether it is in the areas of cancer, ahlzeimer's, non-opioid pain management, or other poorly-treated disease states there will be major advances that will be developed by pharma and commercially successfully, even blockbusters. It is cyclical, and takes time. As I said before, I don't know if Pfizer will be one of the winners. Since I am here and prefer to remain, I hope that our pipeline proves out in the short term with tofa, prevnar, extensions for Lyrica, copromote w/Eliquis, etc. all generating solid revenue and negating the need to slash the existing sales force further. And I hope other big pharmas have successes that drive demand and require proven reps whether hired from CSOs or competitors. Unless you really think that the pharma business model is irrevocably broken it will happen. I'm trying to survive the crash and then ride the next wave up!

 

[Anonymous]

Guess we can agree to disagree. Very few pharma companies have the goodwill they once did, but you seem to feel that has to be permanent; I don't. Again, I am confident that there is a cyclical nature to many things in business, and very little that has brought pharma down (and Pfizer in particular) cannot be rectified with new, novel drugs, more genuine and competent management, and an improving economy. Pharma is a convenient scapegoat for politicians, the medical community, and the general public during a major time of upheaval; admittedly some of the criticism is fair and some of our wounds were stupidly self-inflicted.

You seem to feel that there are no major advances in medicine to be made; I have to disagree, whether it is in the areas of cancer, ahlzeimer's, non-opioid pain management, or other poorly-treated disease states there will be major advances that will be developed by pharma and commercially successfully, even blockbusters. It is cyclical, and takes time. As I said before, I don't know if Pfizer will be one of the winners. Since I am here and prefer to remain, I hope that our pipeline proves out in the short term with tofa, prevnar, extensions for Lyrica, copromote w/Eliquis, etc. all generating solid revenue and negating the need to slash the existing sales force further. And I hope other big pharmas have successes that drive demand and require proven reps whether hired from CSOs or competitors. Unless you really think that the pharma business model is irrevocably broken it will happen. I'm trying to survive the crash and then ride the next wave up!

Look up the 2011 Annual Reports of Novartis, Pfizer, Sanofi, Merck, and BMS. Tell me what you see there. There is a reason that all of these companies have closed down R&D plants, and are slashing their overhead. Businesses often do go in cycles, but please believe me, this one is never going to be the bloated, corpulent mass it was for the past 15 years. Economics and our own productivity have forced a change in tactics. Never before have safe, effective, well tolerated once-a-day meds all go off patent in such great numbers. You DO know that every biz mag calls where we are a "patent cliff", right. Not a 'patent ebb', or a "patent valley", but a "patent cliff".

7-10 years ago (I am a compulsive reader of Pharma Annual Reports) this is what I remember from our "blockbuster" pipeline from the reports in the early to mid 2000s. Let's see how many of these "blockbuster" meds have born out with even $300 million in sales:

Inhaled insulin
Torcept./Lipitor
Norvasc/Lipitor
Indiplon (for sleep)
Oporia (lasofoxifene) for osteoporosis
Bextra
Paracoxib (injectable COX-2)
Daxas (Roflumilast) for COPD/asthma
Selzentry
Lyrica for GAD
Chantix

We screwed up, guys and gals. We tried to hit ONLY home runs, and refused to play small ball. Please stop holding out against hope that we will be able to bring back those once-in-a-lifetime days with the meds that you mentioned. Please believe that Merck, PFE, GSK, Novartis, AZ, Lilly, etc executives have learned from their mistakes, and are finally right-sizing their companies for a good reason: They have instituted MASSIVE cuts to staff and R&D personnel because they know what the future holds.

 

[Anonymous]

Reps are really only needed to launch products otherwise they are liabilities because of lawsuits.
At least right now. They can let you go and hire someone else later when the service of a rep is needed. In the lull years the reps in numbers just are not needed.

 

[Anonymous]

Reps are really only needed to launch products otherwise they are liabilities because of lawsuits.
At least right now. They can let you go and hire someone else later when the service of a rep is needed. In the lull years the reps in numbers just are not needed.

True Dat. In fact I am surprised that we still have the amount of full time PC reps that we do.

 

[Anonymous]

The rep who is let go from 'company X' and ends up selling their drug through a contract company will be like the frigid date you take to the prom. Sure they'll make a good appearance and put forth the effort to sell, but at the end of the day, they'll remember that there is no loyalty either way anymore. The frozen smile will be all that you get. Never again will they be screwed.

 

[Anonymous]

Curt McAllister is sales director at Publicus.

 

[Anonymous]

Look up the 2011 Annual Reports of Novartis, Pfizer, Sanofi, Merck, and BMS. Tell me what you see there. There is a reason that all of these companies have closed down R&D plants, and are slashing their overhead. Businesses often do go in cycles, but please believe me, this one is never going to be the bloated, corpulent mass it was for the past 15 years. Economics and our own productivity have forced a change in tactics. Never before have safe, effective, well tolerated once-a-day meds all go off patent in such great numbers. You DO know that every biz mag calls where we are a "patent cliff", right. Not a 'patent ebb', or a "patent valley", but a "patent cliff".

7-10 years ago (I am a compulsive reader of Pharma Annual Reports) this is what I remember from our "blockbuster" pipeline from the reports in the early to mid 2000s. Let's see how many of these "blockbuster" meds have born out with even $300 million in sales:

Inhaled insulin
Torcept./Lipitor
Norvasc/Lipitor
Indiplon (for sleep)
Oporia (lasofoxifene) for osteoporosis
Bextra
Paracoxib (injectable COX-2)
Daxas (Roflumilast) for COPD/asthma
Selzentry
Lyrica for GAD
Chantix

We screwed up, guys and gals. We tried to hit ONLY home runs, and refused to play small ball. Please stop holding out against hope that we will be able to bring back those once-in-a-lifetime days with the meds that you mentioned. Please believe that Merck, PFE, GSK, Novartis, AZ, Lilly, etc executives have learned from their mistakes, and are finally right-sizing their companies for a good reason: They have instituted MASSIVE cuts to staff and R&D personnel because they know what the future holds.

All true except for your conclusion. Big Pharma realizes that R&D is no longer needed. They will become marketing and licensing sales's companies like Forest. They will depend upon small labs to invent the molecules and will license the molecule and try to bring them to market with their huge capital that the small labs don't have.

If they love the lab, they will just buy it and not worry about competing with other pharmas for the molecules it finds.

It's just a newer business model. It's just another form of subcontracting, but in the R&D arenas.

As a rep, pray that the new molecules will be needed in the specialties you have experience and connections in, and you'll survive and possibly flourish.

And as the PP said, it will cycle and the successful pharmas will grow again and decide to do R&D in house.

The only true fear all of us should have is if the government takes over all of healthcare and puts the R&D in the hands of government employees and does away with sales forces. That should scare the shit out of all of us more than our present issues of which pharma companies will survive and if they all go to contract reps. This next election will absolutely decide our fates.

 

[Anonymous]

The rep who is let go from 'company X' and ends up selling their drug through a contract company will be like the frigid date you take to the prom. Sure they'll make a good appearance and put forth the effort to sell, but at the end of the day, they'll remember that there is no loyalty either way anymore. The frozen smile will be all that you get. Never again will they be screwed.

Wow. Just like that, you hammer thousands of people, the great majority of whom you never met. So I suppose that you have feedback from a fair sampling of docs that your post is accurate?

All I know is, I can name 12 former reps and DMs (and above) from here that are thrilled to have that job. I used to make fun of those companies as being full of ne'er-do-wells, or people that couldn't cut it as a detail rep (which pretty much puts them in the flotsam category).

No more.

 

[Anonymous]

The only true fear all of us should have is if the government takes over all of healthcare and puts the R&D in the hands of government employees and does away with sales forces. That should scare the shit out of all of us more than our present issues of which pharma companies will survive and if they all go to contract reps. This next election will absolutely decide our fates.

The government? Not even close to our biggest fear. Facts are plain as day: we as full-time field force have become obsolete, and thus are endangered. Managed care, fallout from the Pfizer-generated reach & frequency "strategy", and bare product cupboards are our Clear and Present Danger (nod to author Tom Clancy).

As someone that was fortunate enough to remember when we could actually sell in offices, nursing homes, and hospitals, I see that we really don't bring the value that we used to. Besides, its not like we have a bag full of heavy hitters like we did in the mid 90's-early 00s. Do they REALLY need us to tell them about the superiority of Viagra to Cialis, or Zyvox or Cubicin? I mean, those meds have been out forever, and its not like we have some ground-breaking comparative data that we are allowed to show. If I hear one more of my old-time customers (that I don't call on any more) describe another hilarious (and embarrassing) rep encounter, I am gonna blow a gasket.

So I disagree that the big bad government is our biggest fear.

Here's another one to chew on: One day Ian is going to sit down with one of those know-nothing-about-our industry groups like McKensie, Hay, or Boston Consulting, review reams of spreadsheets, and decide that 33% of us can be replaced by contract reps (making 50% of what we do) without a significant downturn in revenue.

THAT's a more realistic and immediate threat. Please believe me.

 

[Anonymous]

Sure the contract reps are cheaper, but do they have the same committment as the Pfizer reps? Answer: No, they will be looking for other jobs from the day they are hired because they know Pfizer can end the contract early.

Sure the contract reps they are hiring are going to have more rheumatology experience than the Pfizer reps, but how well do you really think the contract company screens those reps? Answer: They don't put in the time necessary to hiring that Pfizer does.

Sure the contract reps are going to have some initial succcess with TOFA - it will be a new exciting product to sell - but are these reps going to be able to build rapport with Rheumatologists over time? Answer: No, these are temporary reps and only the Pfizer reps will achieve long term rapport with their physicians.

 

[Anonymous]

CSO , cheaper, faster, just as efficient.

 

[Anonymous]

Sure the contract reps are cheaper, but do they have the same committment as the Pfizer reps? Answer: No, they will be looking for other jobs from the day they are hired because they know Pfizer can end the contract early.

Sure the contract reps they are hiring are going to have more rheumatology experience than the Pfizer reps, but how well do you really think the contract company screens those reps? Answer: They don't put in the time necessary to hiring that Pfizer does.

Sure the contract reps are going to have some initial succcess with TOFA - it will be a new exciting product to sell - but are these reps going to be able to build rapport with Rheumatologists over time? Answer: No, these are temporary reps and only the Pfizer reps will achieve long term rapport with their physicians.

Surely with these allegations, you have some sort of proof? Most of the contract reps I know (many of whom had the same blue oval on their cards as I did) are "contracting" in the exact same territory that they had as Pfizer reps. They seem hungrier to me than they were before....maybe because they know what whats for them (and us?) if they are let go.

Bottom line is that our company is headed this way, just like our competitors already have. We can bitch, moan, stick our head in the sand, but the future is here.

 

[Anonymous]

Surely with these allegations, you have some sort of proof? Most of the contract reps I know (many of whom had the same blue oval on their cards as I did) are "contracting" in the exact same territory that they had as Pfizer reps. They seem hungrier to me than they were before....maybe because they know what whats for them (and us?) if they are let go.

Bottom line is that our company is headed this way, just like our competitors already have. We can bitch, moan, stick our head in the sand, but the future is here.

But what kind of future is that? Pfizer was ALWAYS the leader that other companies followed.

Any word on who the "ideal candidate" is for the contract jobs?

 

[Anonymous]

But what kind of future is that? Pfizer was ALWAYS the leader that other companies followed.

Any word on who the "ideal candidate" is for the contract jobs?

The last time we were the leader was when we signed off on reach & frequency and the LAT system with at least 3-4 divisions selling the same damn drug. Everyone else followed our lead, dooming the industry to turn into armies of slim jim waving, signature gathering empty suits.

Right after kicking off LATs we went to Action Selling, the old-as-dirt sales tool that was obsolete 8 years prior to us buying into it.

Jig was up, because no one followed suit.

 

[Anonymous]

Sure the contract reps are cheaper, but do they have the same committment as the Pfizer reps? Answer: No, they will be looking for other jobs from the day they are hired because they know Pfizer can end the contract early.

Sure the contract reps they are hiring are going to have more rheumatology experience than the Pfizer reps, but how well do you really think the contract company screens those reps? Answer: They don't put in the time necessary to hiring that Pfizer does.

Sure the contract reps are going to have some initial succcess with TOFA - it will be a new exciting product to sell - but are these reps going to be able to build rapport with Rheumatologists over time? Answer: No, these are temporary reps and only the Pfizer reps will achieve long term rapport with their physicians.

wrong, wrong, and wrong. We are all going to be contract reps. sooner or later. Bet you won't be saying this about yourself. BTW, in case you haven't noticed there are very few jobs for those contract reps to go to.

 

[Anonymous]

wrong, wrong, and wrong. We are all going to be contract reps. sooner or later. Bet you won't be saying this about yourself. BTW, in case you haven't noticed there are very few jobs for those contract reps to go to.

Excellent point! All this BS about the contract reps always have their look-out for full time jobs! I yell two things: "WOULDNT YOU?!" and "WHERE ARE THEY GOING? NO ONE IN THIS INDUSTRY IS HIRING".

I had the misfortune from 3 to 6 years ago of working with some of the laziest Pod-mates ever. I ("we") still won some awards, but these people rode my coat-tails all the way through. No contract salesperson would dare pull that stunt.