Why is Pfizer hiring contract reps to sell Tofa??

[Anonymous]

Really? Have you worked with contract reps? No arguing that many of them want and need the jobs, but none of the ones I worked with had extensive relationships, esp. compared to my Pfizer colleagues (the majority of which are very tenured), and ALL of them were on the lookout to get out of contract sales as they knew they could/would be replaced at any time. I'm not saying that many of them weren't good people, but the nature of the contract relationship precludes any deep commitment to what is being sold or who is employing them, and you can't blame the reps! Even the managers at the contract companies were gone as soon as a pharma opportunity opened...

Been watching this for awhile. I have almost 20 years here, and want to sound my opinion:

You sound just like a lot of my colleagues sounded in 2009. They sing a different tune now, because these days the ones that are getting hit on in LinkedIn are those WITH contract jobs.

No one asks me about getting them in to Pfizer, a huge departure from the time I started til about 2008 or so, when I got hit on constantly, from all corners.

Really, your ignorance of the industry shocks me. Those contract companies are the only one hiring (with just a few exceptions), and they are snapping up senior-level AZ, Pfizer, Sanofi, Novartis people that I know at literally half of their last salary (almost to the dollar), or less.

OF COURSE those people want out of contract sales, because they all want the cushy life-style we used to lead, and they want their salary to go back to where it was. The problem is, most of those 38-57 year olds will slowly realize that for the most part, those days will never return. Why should they? Lets be serious: why pay a 45 year old the same or more than FPs and some internists make, just to sit around an office for X minutes at a time to point and click on an iCUE while someone signs for samples 6 times a day? Really?

When I started that may have made good business sense, but no longer. We don't have the respect used to, we can't get into our hospitals to "train" the house staff like we used to, and MCO wield incredible power, thanks to all of the blockbuster drugs of the 90's-2000s that are now generic. How the heck is a "relationship" with a doctor gonna trump a HMO's treatment algorithm, or a major hospital system's strict NO-SEE policy?

 

[Anonymous]

Well said. What Pfizer needs is a "Stock and Bill" product. Something the office can make money on. THAT would be a Game Changer.

 

[Anonymous]

The issue isn't about the quality of the rep - I agree there is very little difference between the 2 - contract and regular sales force. The issue is that once again the drug companies are walking off a cliff believing in some business model they think is going to work in their best interests and it just isn't. Physicians might have pressures very different from and stronger noww than years ago, but in the end they are willing to listen to what a rep has to say if they are familiar with that rep, have consistency with that rep and the rep has a vested interest in promoting that drug and the resources associated with it FOR THE LONG HAUL.
The contract companies are just trying to make a buck of the companies that got rid of them in the first place! they get $150,000 from the drug companies per rep - you think they pay that to the rep - hell no! you are lucky to see 1/2. But the people in charge at Publicis are not taking a pay cut!
One of them was shown the door by Pfizer because she was having an affair with someone who worked for her - she is laughing all the way to the bank as she helps dismantle their sales force

 

[Anonymous]

Look. In this climate, you can have a GREAT relationship with a physician, but that doesn't mean he/she has time to discuss products during their clinic time.

These days if a Dr. is serious about learning about a new drug or existing drug, he/she will take time to research it on the internet. What a rep needs to do in this day and time, is to PEAK the physicians interest and offer up CME credits on LINE.

The game has changed. The Old model of talking to a Dr. during clinic is BROKEN. We have to engage them in other ways. Also need to dismantle the regulations in the way we interact. Bring back the old dinner meetings where they could bring their spouses would surely be a game changer.

Offer Hospitals Display Fees for setting up displays. Offer large clinics the same. Perscribers simply do not have Time for reps during clinic hours, no matter WHO that rep is.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes , it is insulting that Pfizer would use contract reps. Yes, it cheapens the company. But, this is the way it is today. Lots of companies hire contractors in lots of industries and lots of positions.

Does the doctor know the difference? Doubt it.

 

[Anonymous]

Relationships sell products. Drs dont trust Phama. Formularies and definitely not a new rep with Similac on his/her breath/ #fail.

However

It will be too late, damage will be done and tenured reps will be goooonnnne.

Does this same logic appy to pcbu selling eliquis in hospitals when there are already reps from ep and sc who have relationships in hospitals?

 

[Anonymous]

I think what shocks me about this situation is the product. We aren't talking about Relpax or Pristiq. We are talking about the drug that Pfizer is hoping is the next multi billion dollar drug. The are going against great biotech companies that all have two pod situations that have experience in this market. How does Pfizer choose to launch this potential blockbuster? They will use reps that sold embrel in some territories and new reps in others....there partners won't be people that have stock in the company they will be contract reps that have no stake in the game. They will leave the job if offered by another pharma company. This pisses me off as a stakeholder that they are putting the future of the company in someone's hand's that won't give a damn. Especially when allot of people would love to have the opportunity in this company to launch another product and feel that feeling we used to have in the late 90's and early 2000's. Instead some euro ceo is slicing and cutting this former great company to make it average and collect his golden parachute when he is let go.
Until then other leadership members will continue to leave to contract sales companies, contract drug development companies all to collect the big money of Pfizer making deals with former buddies. While the representatives of this company don't even bother vote on their proxy shares or read what is going on. Sure sit here and collect the paycheck until you get the severance that has already been cut in half in four years is maybe paid out to you, but at least pay attention what is going on and speak up to other people.

 

[Anonymous]

The issue isn't about the quality of the rep - I agree there is very little difference between the 2 - contract and regular sales force. The issue is that once again the drug companies are walking off a cliff believing in some business model they think is going to work in their best interests and it just isn't. Physicians might have pressures very different from and stronger noww than years ago, but in the end they are willing to listen to what a rep has to say if they are familiar with that rep, have consistency with that rep and the rep has a vested interest in promoting that drug and the resources associated with it FOR THE LONG HAUL.
The contract companies are just trying to make a buck of the companies that got rid of them in the first place! they get $150,000 from the drug companies per rep - you think they pay that to the rep - hell no! you are lucky to see 1/2. But the people in charge at Publicis are not taking a pay cut!
One of them was shown the door by Pfizer because she was having an affair with someone who worked for her - she is laughing all the way to the bank as she helps dismantle their sales force

You can bitch all you want. And throwing MK under the bus by fanning the years-old flames aint going to work either. EVERY ONE of the big 5 is going with contract reps. Merck started the trend, and now everyone is following suit. Your post has no data to support it. All I see are innuendos, allegations, and gossip. Ever read Pharmaceutical Exec, or the Voice? True, these are throw-aways with tons of ads, but I've read plenty of ELT interviews where for the past few years that have told the world that their companies were going the route of the contract companies for sales AND marketing. Why wouldn't they? Most of these reps and managers and marketers were true 10-20 year vets until they got cut, and now they're willing to work for $75-85k. I know what I'd do if I had the choice!

 

[Anonymous]

I think what shocks me about this situation is the product. We aren't talking about Relpax or Pristiq. We are talking about the drug that Pfizer is hoping is the next multi billion dollar drug. The are going against great biotech companies that all have two pod situations that have experience in this market. How does Pfizer choose to launch this potential blockbuster? They will use reps that sold embrel in some territories and new reps in others....there partners won't be people that have stock in the company they will be contract reps that have no stake in the game. They will leave the job if offered by another pharma company. This pisses me off as a stakeholder that they are putting the future of the company in someone's hand's that won't give a damn. Especially when allot of people would love to have the opportunity in this company to launch another product and feel that feeling we used to have in the late 90's and early 2000's. Instead some euro ceo is slicing and cutting this former great company to make it average and collect his golden parachute when he is let go.
Until then other leadership members will continue to leave to contract sales companies, contract drug development companies all to collect the big money of Pfizer making deals with former buddies. While the representatives of this company don't even bother vote on their proxy shares or read what is going on. Sure sit here and collect the paycheck until you get the severance that has already been cut in half in four years is maybe paid out to you, but at least pay attention what is going on and speak up to other people.

Dude, the horse has left the barn. You are complaining about the wave of the future? I dub thee Don Quixote!

Contract field forces have been shown, time and time again, to be extremely cost effective when compared to us full-timers. In fact, it is we (us?), the full time field force that has been shown not be a great ROI any more. Which is why more and more companies are moving their stones from our pile over to the contract rep and DSM pile. I'm sorry, but we brought this on ourselves. We all know, or know of reps/managers that are going through the motions, working as little as possible. On the other hand, those contract reps (and people getting let go from here) have little chance of getting a full-time pharma job, so they bust their bottoms to make sure that they keep the job they have, even if it DOES pay nothing like what they made here.

 

[Anonymous]

spin, spin, spin, sell, sell, sell

You are obviously a greaduate of pharma selling school CSO boy.

Now go away!

 

[Anonymous]

spin, spin, spin, sell, sell, sell

You are obviously a greaduate of pharma selling school CSO boy.

Now go away!

Good and well thought-out post. Grammar and spelling are on point, and you have reams of data to support your position. Yep, you're a RBD, correct?

 

[Anonymous]

Been watching this for awhile. I have almost 20 years here, and want to sound my opinion:

You sound just like a lot of my colleagues sounded in 2009. They sing a different tune now, because these days the ones that are getting hit on in LinkedIn are those WITH contract jobs.

No one asks me about getting them in to Pfizer, a huge departure from the time I started til about 2008 or so, when I got hit on constantly, from all corners.

Really, your ignorance of the industry shocks me. Those contract companies are the only one hiring (with just a few exceptions), and they are snapping up senior-level AZ, Pfizer, Sanofi, Novartis people that I know at literally half of their last salary (almost to the dollar), or less.

OF COURSE those people want out of contract sales, because they all want the cushy life-style we used to lead, and they want their salary to go back to where it was. The problem is, most of those 38-57 year olds will slowly realize that for the most part, those days will never return. Why should they? Lets be serious: why pay a 45 year old the same or more than FPs and some internists make, just to sit around an office for X minutes at a time to point and click on an iCUE while someone signs for samples 6 times a day? Really?

When I started that may have made good business sense, but no longer. We don't have the respect used to, we can't get into our hospitals to "train" the house staff like we used to, and MCO wield incredible power, thanks to all of the blockbuster drugs of the 90's-2000s that are now generic. How the heck is a "relationship" with a doctor gonna trump a HMO's treatment algorithm, or a major hospital system's strict NO-SEE policy?

This person just explained the new industry in a couple of paragraphs. Congrats.

 

[Anonymous]

Stop patting yourself on the back and blogging here about your business plan CSO scum. You are worn out old skanks, please go away.

 

[Anonymous]

Stop patting yourself on the back and blogging here about your business plan CSO scum. You are worn out old skanks, please go away.

Another brilliant, well thought out retort by one of my field-based colleagues. I am probably the poster that you're calling names, and I am no CSO person. I am trying to open our eyes to the facts as they are. Those of us fortunate enough to be here bad-mouth CSOs, and those that have been let go are more than happy to sign up.

I HATE the fact that we're going that route, but if I get let go, and have trouble finding a job after 8 months, I'll have no problem knocking on their doors. At my current salary, I am under no misconceptions at what awaits me in this industry.

 

[Anonymous]

Been watching this for awhile. I have almost 20 years here, and want to sound my opinion:

You sound just like a lot of my colleagues sounded in 2009. They sing a different tune now, because these days the ones that are getting hit on in LinkedIn are those WITH contract jobs.

No one asks me about getting them in to Pfizer, a huge departure from the time I started til about 2008 or so, when I got hit on constantly, from all corners.

Really, your ignorance of the industry shocks me. Those contract companies are the only one hiring (with just a few exceptions), and they are snapping up senior-level AZ, Pfizer, Sanofi, Novartis people that I know at literally half of their last salary (almost to the dollar), or less.

OF COURSE those people want out of contract sales, because they all want the cushy life-style we used to lead, and they want their salary to go back to where it was. The problem is, most of those 38-57 year olds will slowly realize that for the most part, those days will never return. Why should they? Lets be serious: why pay a 45 year old the same or more than FPs and some internists make, just to sit around an office for X minutes at a time to point and click on an iCUE while someone signs for samples 6 times a day? Really?

When I started that may have made good business sense, but no longer. We don't have the respect used to, we can't get into our hospitals to "train" the house staff like we used to, and MCO wield incredible power, thanks to all of the blockbuster drugs of the 90's-2000s that are now generic. How the heck is a "relationship" with a doctor gonna trump a HMO's treatment algorithm, or a major hospital system's strict NO-SEE policy?

So at the risk of getting slammed by legions of angry, frustrated people, let me respond to the above poster:

If you read my original post, I went out of my way not to denigrate the CSO reps. I've been a rep in the industry 10+ years, and I feel lucky to have survived at Pfizer thus far. And I know there are a lot of former pharma reps who are very good CSO reps. But I take issue with your characterization of those of us left as just coasting, not earning our pay (which certainly has been cut in various ways over the past 2-3 years, reflecting the economics of the industry we are in), undeserving of our positions. None of the successful reps I know simply chase sigs mail in their efforts, and basically sit around helplessly feeling sorry for themselves. Relationships matter more than ever now that access is tougher, activities are curtailed by new regs, and budgets have been slashed. We work hard to maintain the ones we have and build, as best we can, new ones. It isn't easy, nor quick, but it gets done by determined reps. You act like all docs disrespect reps and are eager to get their product info from the web. Just isn't true of a significant percentage of prescribers (ok, it might be in a handful of cities like Boston). If it was, there would be no reason for CSO growth, just multi-marketing. Think I'm full of it? Then survey some of your key prescribers and ask them now much time they spend on PfizerPro, Sermo, etc. vs. Facebook, YouTube, non-industry sites. You might be surprised at what you learn. One last observation: many assume that the industry is dead because of all the generics, MC, etc., never to revive. I don't see it that way--industries go through cycles and pharma is no different. New, significant compounds will be discovered, commercialized, and paid for. It may never be as lucrative as the 80s/90s but that doesn't mean it won't get better than it has been, and unless the US healthcare model becomes the mirror of socialist Europe, reps will still be needed to differentiate options in a competitive market. Will Pfizer be one of the winners? Hope so, but who knows? There will be pharma company winners, I'm betting...

 

[Anonymous]

Excellent logic but will the ELT have the cojones to make Wall Street wait for results - or will they continue to appease by chopping "operating expenses"? (while lining their own pockets for a job well done).

Merck is hiring through Inventiv, and Lilly is starting reps as contractors (even tho they work for Lilly, they are not considered permanent employees). The wave of the future has yet to catch up with Pfizer.

 

[Anonymous]

So at the risk of getting slammed by legions of angry, frustrated people, let me respond to the above poster:

If you read my original post, I went out of my way not to denigrate the CSO reps. I've been a rep in the industry 10+ years, and I feel lucky to have survived at Pfizer thus far. And I know there are a lot of former pharma reps who are very good CSO reps. But I take issue with your characterization of those of us left as just coasting, not earning our pay (which certainly has been cut in various ways over the past 2-3 years, reflecting the economics of the industry we are in), undeserving of our positions. None of the successful reps I know simply chase sigs mail in their efforts, and basically sit around helplessly feeling sorry for themselves. Relationships matter more than ever now that access is tougher, activities are curtailed by new regs, and budgets have been slashed. We work hard to maintain the ones we have and build, as best we can, new ones. It isn't easy, nor quick, but it gets done by determined reps. You act like all docs disrespect reps and are eager to get their product info from the web. Just isn't true of a significant percentage of prescribers (ok, it might be in a handful of cities like Boston). If it was, there would be no reason for CSO growth, just multi-marketing. Think I'm full of it? Then survey some of your key prescribers and ask them now much time they spend on PfizerPro, Sermo, etc. vs. Facebook, YouTube, non-industry sites. You might be surprised at what you learn. One last observation: many assume that the industry is dead because of all the generics, MC, etc., never to revive. I don't see it that way--industries go through cycles and pharma is no different. New, significant compounds will be discovered, commercialized, and paid for. It may never be as lucrative as the 80s/90s but that doesn't mean it won't get better than it has been, and unless the US healthcare model becomes the mirror of socialist Europe, reps will still be needed to differentiate options in a competitive market. Will Pfizer be one of the winners? Hope so, but who knows? There will be pharma company winners, I'm betting...

This is not a debate about the "value of pharmaceutical reps" or Drs. getting drug info from other sources. This discussion is about Contract Representation which is a less expensive alternative to Direct Representation- which involves more costs and commitment on behalf of the company.
Companies have to change the model of business if they want to survive. Hiring contract reps, doing away with management duplication, etc are some ways of reducing costs.
Like someone mentioned, Lilly is only guarenteeing new reps TWO YEARS through a two year contract. SMART. If the rep shows they can increase revenue and growth, then perhaps they can renew their contract. If not, then Lilly can say "Adios" without severance or legal issues.

 

[Anonymous]

So at the risk of getting slammed by legions of angry, frustrated people, let me respond to the above poster:

If you read my original post, I went out of my way not to denigrate the CSO reps. I've been a rep in the industry 10+ years, and I feel lucky to have survived at Pfizer thus far. And I know there are a lot of former pharma reps who are very good CSO reps. But I take issue with your characterization of those of us left as just coasting, not earning our pay (which certainly has been cut in various ways over the past 2-3 years, reflecting the economics of the industry we are in), undeserving of our positions. None of the successful reps I know simply chase sigs mail in their efforts, and basically sit around helplessly feeling sorry for themselves. Relationships matter more than ever now that access is tougher, activities are curtailed by new regs, and budgets have been slashed. We work hard to maintain the ones we have and build, as best we can, new ones. It isn't easy, nor quick, but it gets done by determined reps. You act like all docs disrespect reps and are eager to get their product info from the web. Just isn't true of a significant percentage of prescribers (ok, it might be in a handful of cities like Boston). If it was, there would be no reason for CSO growth, just multi-marketing. Think I'm full of it? Then survey some of your key prescribers and ask them now much time they spend on PfizerPro, Sermo, etc. vs. Facebook, YouTube, non-industry sites. You might be surprised at what you learn. One last observation: many assume that the industry is dead because of all the generics, MC, etc., never to revive. I don't see it that way--industries go through cycles and pharma is no different. New, significant compounds will be discovered, commercialized, and paid for. It may never be as lucrative as the 80s/90s but that doesn't mean it won't get better than it has been, and unless the US healthcare model becomes the mirror of socialist Europe, reps will still be needed to differentiate options in a competitive market. Will Pfizer be one of the winners? Hope so, but who knows? There will be pharma company winners, I'm betting...

A much better reply, but you're missing the point. I have been exposed to docs throughout my region, so my impression is not based on one territory, or one district or one small geographic area of the country. This is what I have heard across many districts, and what has been reported to me. I also am fortunate enough to have befriended many residents from my stay as an IHR, and give their feedback as well. We simply don't have the good favor and respect that we once did. Period.

It just makes good economic sense to go the contract rep route at this point. Look, I know that I'm kicking my own ass here, but I know of what I speak.

Next point: name me some big dollar volume potential drug classes where there isn't a ream of generics just sitting there waiting to take up the top 3 spots on a managed care prior auth list.

When I started the biggest drug classes were ACEs, ARBs (relatively new), CCBs (on their way down), depression and anxiety meds, ulcers, LRI and URIs, UTIs, clot-busters, oral and injectable diabetes meds, impotence (brilliantly renamed ED by Pfizer), and cholesterol meds.
Even though I obviously favored our drugs, most reviews like the medical letter frequently stated that the meds in each class were very similar (thus, the old term "me too"). any med coming out now will have to prove superiority over tried and true generics like metformin for diabetes or zithromax for RTIs. GOOD LUCK ON THAT ONE!

So where do we go to get new blockbusters? Obesity? Good luck with that one. Diabetes? Please, there are some good generics already,and some of the current meds will be hard to beat out once they go off patent. Cancers? We're trying that already. Some type of mental disorder? Highly unlikely.

Until we can start cranking out profitable first or best-in-class meds like we once did, our company will continue to do what its competitors are doing: slashing the # of, and payout to, the field force.

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldnt trust the leadership of the CSO company in question. They can't manage themselves and are untrustworthy and are gathering more and more distrusted ex-PFE'rs. why would you go there? We have the right talent and leadership right here already.

 

[Anonymous]

total agreement on that !