What to do next?

[Anonymous]

If you are fired they cannot take away your pension. I believe you are vested in a J&J pension after 5 years of service, at least that is what it use to be. A J&J pension is like Social Security, you can elect to begin to receive it at 55, or wait until later, such as 62 or 65. Obviously, the earlier you take your pension, the less you receive in your monthly payout. Most of this information can be found on the company benefits website--you can even project your J&J pension payment beginning at age 55.

You will lose your ability to receive J&J Health insurance during retirement if you are terminated before age 55, however you will be able to carry this over via COBRA, for a certain amount of time--I believe 18 months, but this may have changed under the current economic challenges and new regulations introduced by the Obama administration.

One last point, HR is not your friend, they support management under the majority of situations, unless the actions are particularly egregious and way outside the bounds of decency, and are always looking to limit the companies potential liability,
regardless of the situation.

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much! I had forgotten about the loss of J &J Health Benefits. They are substantial. Not good.

Since you've humored me with my question, I'll ask one more. Would there be any type of severance attached in this type of situation? I can't imagine there would but a friend suggested otherwise. Can you break the tie?

Thanks again for your kind response.

 

[Anonymous]

My question is not exactly on topic if that's okay. I'm a first timer on Cafe Pharma. Judging from the way you guys write, I bet I'll get pretty beat up for this.

I'm fairly certain I'm being targeted to be let go. I'm over 50 and this has been going on for two years. I'm not here to debate whether what they are wrong or right to be doing this to me. My heart is already broken.

I am, though a single Mom and a long term employee and as a high performer I've got a pretty good salary which translates to a solid pension. I realize I should know the answer to this question but I never imagined I'd have to. If I am fired will they take my pension away? I am not 55 which I believe would qualify me for early retirement.

Thanks for any help, info, advice you are kind enough to share.

Everything you write equals Wrongful termination lawsuit. Know a good labor lawyer?

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you so much! I had forgotten about the loss of J &J Health Benefits. They are substantial. Not good.

Since you've humored me with my question, I'll ask one more. Would there be any type of severance attached in this type of situation? I can't imagine there would but a friend suggested otherwise. Can you break the tie?

Thanks again for your kind response.

I am not the person who responded the first time, however I have a little experience in this department. If you are really certain that you are being targeted...and I mean ABSOLUTELY certain, then you need to start documenting every single interaction you have with anyone in the company. I know this sounds tedious, but it will most certainly pay off. Once you feel like you have sufficient evidence you should go to HR, remembering what the other responder said...THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND OR ADVOCATE. Go to them and tell them that you feel like you are being targeted and treated unfairly, and that you would like to resign but you are unable to without having secured new employment. Be sure to tell them some specific examples from your documentation. In most cases, if you are in fact being targeted they will give you a severance package. Because of this you must be CERTAIN that you are being targeted or you are putting the nails in your own coffin. I can't remember how old you said you are, but it sounded like you are spitting distance to 55. If you can try to hold on until then, you will be well served. If not, perhaps you can get retirement benefits included in your severance. I wouldn't count on that though because most HR folks aren't going to have the clearance to do such a thing. If this has been going on for 2 years, then they should have been able to pull the trigger by now if they had any basis for the targeting. It could be that you are over-exaggerating which is why I again urge you to be absolutely certain that you are being targeted before embarking on any of this. I hope this helps because I remember what it felt like to be unfairly targeted.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to the last post person. Why do they target people? Maybe that would help me understand whether I am being targeted. I'm sorry to sound naive, but I really don't understand. To that point how did you know you were being targeted?

I'm pretty tough. I know I sound like a putz, but when it's you and the greatest kid in the world you stay for the fight. I've communicated to HR and to my boss over the course of this period that I believed, as a result of various actions, I was being treated unfairly so we're all clear. Maybe that's why they haven't been able to 'pull the trigger' as you say. That and my consistent performance.

But I've started to look at my 16 hour work days and the number of events I am missing personally and socially and realizing I can't work my way out of this. I guess its partly a feeling along with some very clear signals and behaviors and a long track record of strong intuition. That is what makes me think they don't want me here and that i am being targeted.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to the last post person. Why do they target people? Maybe that would help me understand whether I am being targeted. I'm sorry to sound naive, but I really don't understand. To that point how did you know you were being targeted?

I'm pretty tough. I know I sound like a putz, but when it's you and the greatest kid in the world you stay for the fight. I've communicated to HR and to my boss over the course of this period that I believed, as a result of various actions, I was being treated unfairly so we're all clear. Maybe that's why they haven't been able to 'pull the trigger' as you say. That and my consistent performance.

But I've started to look at my 16 hour work days and the number of events I am missing personally and socially and realizing I can't work my way out of this. I guess its partly a feeling along with some very clear signals and behaviors and a long track record of strong intuition. That is what makes me think they don't want me here and that i am being targeted.

If you're over 50 - JNJ wants you somewhere gone. You are not an asset when you're old...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to the last post person. Why do they target people? Maybe that would help me understand whether I am being targeted. I'm sorry to sound naive, but I really don't understand. To that point how did you know you were being targeted?

I'm pretty tough. I know I sound like a putz, but when it's you and the greatest kid in the world you stay for the fight. I've communicated to HR and to my boss over the course of this period that I believed, as a result of various actions, I was being treated unfairly so we're all clear. Maybe that's why they haven't been able to 'pull the trigger' as you say. That and my consistent performance.

But I've started to look at my 16 hour work days and the number of events I am missing personally and socially and realizing I can't work my way out of this. I guess its partly a feeling along with some very clear signals and behaviors and a long track record of strong intuition. That is what makes me think they don't want me here and that i am being targeted.

In my situation I was in a 4 person pod. I had been told on numerous occasions that my relationships were better than anyone in the region. Yet, when we were number 1 in the country for MY lead drug, I was put on corrective action. You might think that it was because of admin stuff, but it wasn't. I was put on it because my THIRD product had "fallen below the top third in the country." Our region and district were at the very bottom of the country for that drug, and our pod was at the the top of both for that drug, and again it was my third (of three) product and there were 2 people who had that drug as lead who weren't put on corrective action. I was given a 180 day CA (which is UNHEARD OF-it is normally 90 days or even 60 or 30) but they needed that much time to try to catch me doing something. It was over a month before I received any papers detailing what I was doing incorrectly. In the long run I was on CA for 20 months, even through a pregnancy and maternity leave. This was the initial CA, not getting it renewed. They couldn't find me doing anything wrong, so they couldn't get rid of me. They WERE able to completely destroy my health, and my self-esteem. It was miserable. I was finally laid-off during the big massacre, and I am much happier for it. In my particular case I believe I was unable to kiss the RBD's butt. I learned a lot about people, personalities, and about myself in those nearly 2 years. It was awful at the time, but it has given me a MUCH clearer picture of how things really are.

Back to you, I would not have any further contact with HR unless you are ready to resign. I wish I could tell you in general why people get targeted. At one point our old RBD had instructions for each DM to have at least one person in each district on CA at all times. That was GREAT for morale as I'm sure you can imagine. I know what you mean by realizing that you can't work your way out of it. Things got much better for me over that time frame because my DMs (I had 2 while on CA) both knew that I didn't deserve to be on CA, so at some point I wasn't being harrassed as much. That didn't change the stress on me in every way during that time. My biggest recommendation to you is to not destroy your own health during this time. I did and that is my biggest regret!

Good luck!

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much, really for your reply. And to the person above, after two years of this, at times, I even felt I might not be an asset anymore. Not because I'm over 50 but because of what this stress can do to you which this poster clearly experienced.

To this poster, I'm sorry you were hurt in this process, it would be impossible not to be. Your advice is very helpful. I'm especially touched that people take the time to come onto a website and give such detailed responses tomsomeone they don't even know. I've felt very isolated. Thank you and if anyone has anything else I am happy to receive it.

 

[Anonymous]

In my situation I was in a 4 person pod. I had been told on numerous occasions that my relationships were better than anyone in the region. Yet, when we were number 1 in the country for MY lead drug, I was put on corrective action. You might think that it was because of admin stuff, but it wasn't. I was put on it because my THIRD product had "fallen below the top third in the country." Our region and district were at the very bottom of the country for that drug, and our pod was at the the top of both for that drug, and again it was my third (of three) product and there were 2 people who had that drug as lead who weren't put on corrective action. I was given a 180 day CA (which is UNHEARD OF-it is normally 90 days or even 60 or 30) but they needed that much time to try to catch me doing something. It was over a month before I received any papers detailing what I was doing incorrectly. In the long run I was on CA for 20 months, even through a pregnancy and maternity leave. This was the initial CA, not getting it renewed. They couldn't find me doing anything wrong, so they couldn't get rid of me. They WERE able to completely destroy my health, and my self-esteem. It was miserable. I was finally laid-off during the big massacre, and I am much happier for it. In my particular case I believe I was unable to kiss the RBD's butt. I learned a lot about people, personalities, and about myself in those nearly 2 years. It was awful at the time, but it has given me a MUCH clearer picture of how things really are.

Back to you, I would not have any further contact with HR unless you are ready to resign. I wish I could tell you in general why people get targeted. At one point our old RBD had instructions for each DM to have at least one person in each district on CA at all times. That was GREAT for morale as I'm sure you can imagine. I know what you mean by realizing that you can't work your way out of it. Things got much better for me over that time frame because my DMs (I had 2 while on CA) both knew that I didn't deserve to be on CA, so at some point I wasn't being harrassed as much. That didn't change the stress on me in every way during that time. My biggest recommendation to you is to not destroy your own health during this time. I did and that is my biggest regret!

Good luck!

Was your RBD-Mark B?

 

[Anonymous]

Was your RBD-Mark B?

Nope...Mike K. I don't even know if he is still around. If he is...kiss his butt and you will be fine...even promoted regardless of how worthless you are!

 

[Anonymous]

Can't tell you why reps get targeted. At one point the RBD had instructions for each DM to have at least one person in each district in need of extra attention.

My recommendation to you is to not destroy your health. I did and that is my regret.
Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

I repeat: Life of a drug rep!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the Novartis board ......
this is no bullshit and any rep who looks in the mirror knows it:
- would wake up around 9 and out by 10. K somedays earlier for ccalls.
- except if there was a conference call which I would take in bed and actually fell asleep during a few.
-drop 2-3 sample calls by lunch
-get 2-3 more sigs at lunch
-Always ordered 2 more than I needed made up 2 names and took them home for the girlfriend and myself for dinner.
-golf 9 holes every tues wed and thurs or hit the gym, run errands and sometimes just sit home if it rained.
-2-3 more sigs on the way home. home by 3 since I live right down the street (live in is best).
-had 3-4 docs and pa's that would swear on a stack of bibbles I was there if I needed it.
-ever worked more than 16-20 hours a week (worked about 10 minutes, the rest of the time was spent driving listening to espn radio and howard stern).
-Take the manager on 8-10 milk runs every 6 weeks and collect a bullshit bonus.
- expensed bagles on mondays which would last at home till wed then expense more
-expense stamps every october and save for xmas cards
-expense all the soft drinks I could
- expensed ink for the printer every 2 reports and stocked up (should have enough to last me at least 5 years)
made 79k base 20-30 bonus, expensed at least 10k a year for me, free car, free gas, changed tires with the girlfriends car right before turning it in for a new free car.
where the fuck will I find this again?

 

[Anonymous]

Can't tell you why reps get targeted. At one point the RBD had instructions for each DM to have at least one person in each district in need of extra attention.

My recommendation to you is to not destroy your health. I did and that is my regret.
Good luck.

I feel really sad that this keeps happening at this shitty organization. Kb and ST were on a war path with me. I didn't nothing wrong they just needed to get rid of someone. I documented everything. I was stressed all the time. Everything I said was scrutinized... If I agreed with something he said I wad doing badly kb would say I agreed I was bad and if I didn't he would say I was being combative and not coachable. They were jerks. Since every email was documented every convo including the one where he was aggressive in public, I showed it to a normal manager, and it was so clear and evident that they were being dicks.
Be smart. Get out. I did before they could have the satisfaction of firing me. I'm much better off and so happy!
Good Luck

 

[Anonymous]

I feel really sad that this keeps happening at this shitty organization. Kb and ST were on a war path with me. I didn't nothing wrong they just needed to get rid of someone. I documented everything. I was stressed all the time. Everything I said was scrutinized... If I agreed with something he said I wad doing badly kb would say I agreed I was bad and if I didn't he would say I was being combative and not coachable. They were jerks. Since every email was documented every convo including the one where he was aggressive in public, I showed it to a normal manager, and it was so clear and evident that they were being dicks.
Be smart. Get out. I did before they could have the satisfaction of firing me. I'm much better off and so happy!
Good Luck

Sorry
* did nothing wrong