Tivorbex Numbers?

Quote

anonymous said:
A neurologist in my territory did her own study. Zorvolex vs. Zipsor and the patients reported back that Zipsor 25mg, 50mg, 25mg (instead of QID) did better than Zorvolex 35 TID. She switched about 15-20 Zipsor patients to Zorvolex and a majority of them said they had better pain relief with the Zipsor than they did when they were switched to Zorvolex. I couldn't argue with her own clinical trial.
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I wish more drs would take the initiative to do this. It also reinforces my belief that many reps in this industry waste their talents pushing snake oil. It kills me to listen to executives pushing an agenda as if it was the word of God. (I hold preachers in pretty low regard as well.).
 



anonymous said:
A neurologist in my territory did her own study. Zorvolex vs. Zipsor and the patients reported back that Zipsor 25mg, 50mg, 25mg (instead of QID) did better than Zorvolex 35 TID. She switched about 15-20 Zipsor patients to Zorvolex and a majority of them said they had better pain relief with the Zipsor than they did when they were switched to Zorvolex. I couldn't argue with her own clinical trial.
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that is amazing since it usually takes studies with an N of 1000 or more to show such differences.
Have her submit her study to JAMA.

Duh!!!
 



anonymous said:
I wish more drs would take the initiative to do this. It also reinforces my belief that many reps in this industry waste their talents pushing snake oil. It kills me to listen to executives pushing an agenda as if it was the word of God. (I hold preachers in pretty low regard as well.).
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You are an idiot. Your snake oil posts aren't funny. Your husband also thinks you are annoying. This discussion was about managed care and real efficacy data until you jumped in with a stupid post. The person who thinks a clinical trial of 25 patients is credible is also a moron. Both of you need to go back to Enterprise or Banana Republic.
 



anonymous said:
that is amazing since it usually takes studies with an N of 1000 or more to show such differences.
Have her submit her study to JAMA.

Duh!!!
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She took her small practice patients and did a study on her own. That's what she did and is standing by it. I got 15 TRX out of her, far more than your territory can produce.

DUH!!!!!!!!
 



anonymous said:
You are an idiot. Your snake oil posts aren't funny. Your husband also thinks you are annoying. This discussion was about managed care and real efficacy data until you jumped in with a stupid post. The person who thinks a clinical trial of 25 patients is credible is also a moron. Both of you need to go back to Enterprise or Banana Republic.
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Did I say the clinical trial of 25 patients is credible???? I'm saying what a neurologist tried in her practice. Never came from enterprise or BR. If you need a lesson in sales, I can help you with that. We sell on the rationale, technology, etc. A head to head would be ideal but we don't have one. So, go out and drive sales.
 



anonymous said:
Did I say the clinical trial of 25 patients is credible???? I'm saying what a neurologist tried in her practice. Never came from enterprise or BR. If you need a lesson in sales, I can help you with that. We sell on the rationale, technology, etc. A head to head would be ideal but we don't have one. So, go out and drive sales.
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Go back to Enterprise and give your girlfriends $0 copay cards! Winner winner chicken dinner!!!
 



As reps we are typically given a week to review a study, memorize s talk track and given a half dozen defensive propositions to spew back to the unbelievers. On our own detail aids, we even discuss personal satisfaction. Yet over the years, I have seen drs face life threatening aes with products I sold, including one in which 3 researchers were indicted for suppressing aes in a clinical trial for a drug removed from the market 3 years earlier for a clinically significant number of these exact events. To say we speak with authority with the aid of one or two clinical trials is to be full if oneself. When drs can elicit the response of their pts who compared both meds, then they really have a fair view in my mind. I will encourage the drs to do this to spur new use and hope that it is successful. You try pants on before you buy them, dont you? So what's the difference here. Our drs are doing the thing we can't, compare two meds in the same pt and guage direct results. Most drs know 5 pts won't do, but once a clear pattern emerges over 10 or more pts, the Dr is not beholden by anything else other than common sense.

Don't think too much of yourself. Did you study organic chemistry? Are you an RN, NP, PA, DO, MD, RPh? Oh, you stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night? Most clinicians are far smarter and discerning than you can even imagine. Hell, I still take ibuprofen because Zorvolex really just aint that good. Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure its not. Trust me, I'm looking for the next job already, hopefully somewhere where I really am making a difference.
 






anonymous said:
A neurologist in my territory did her own study. Zorvolex vs. Zipsor and the patients reported back that Zipsor 25mg, 50mg, 25mg (instead of QID) did better than Zorvolex 35 TID. She switched about 15-20 Zipsor patients to Zorvolex and a majority of them said they had better pain relief with the Zipsor than they did when they were switched to Zorvolex. I couldn't argue with her own clinical trial.
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Whammy! Do I want to succeed? Yes! Do we have a chance with this junk..... Nope! Not buying your unscientific rationales, they do not wash. The data is just a source of embarrassment in front of clinicians.
 



really your arguing that this stuff works and getting"clinical trials" in your offices? How about get something that is covered not just this bs united, anthem crap that makes up 10% in my geography? Did they hire a managed care team or is that Chris Ms job also?
 



anonymous said:
A neurologist in my territory did her own study. Zorvolex vs. Zipsor and the patients reported back that Zipsor 25mg, 50mg, 25mg (instead of QID) did better than Zorvolex 35 TID. She switched about 15-20 Zipsor patients to Zorvolex and a majority of them said they had better pain relief with the Zipsor than they did when they were switched to Zorvolex. I couldn't argue with her own clinical trial.
Click to expand...

It's unfortunate that the same physicians who seek scientific evidence turnaround and claim like what is quoted above. 15-20 patients is not a great sample size to draw any conclusions. However, perception is reality. Important thing to note is the focus of targeting for Zorvolex is very different than Zipsor's. And on aggregate for all our targets, Zorvolex share is far greater than that of Zipsor implying that the perception stated above does not represent that of most of our targets
 



My counterpart down south here told me she finally got her 1st script today and she only had to blow the doctor for about 10 minutes to get it. He agreed- most sex in shortest duration of time and hassle was a good outcome. He wasn't interested in seeing the clinical study though- just wanted to leave his sample. So, she's finally on the board. So to speak! Of course she has no dignity left, but neither do the rest of us.
 



anonymous said:
really your arguing that this stuff works and getting"clinical trials" in your offices? How about get something that is covered not just this bs united, anthem crap that makes up 10% in my geography? Did they hire a managed care team or is that Chris Ms job also?
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As I said, if you can objectively analyze the population in your area and what plans they belong to - while the coverage in the medicare and medicai is limited, a significant proportion of the commercial lives are covered with minimal restrictions. In most geographies we operate, Express scripts and CVS Caremark account 20% - 40% of the commercial lives. The local BCBS account for another 20%. Aetna about 6% - 10%, Anthem about - 10%, Cigna about 5%. Iroko has some of the top managed care guys in the industry working there. As I said originally, if you invest the time to gather objective knowledge about managed care in your territory, you will be surprised.
 



anonymous said:
As I said, if you can objectively analyze the population in your area and what plans they belong to - while the coverage in the medicare and medicai is limited, a significant proportion of the commercial lives are covered with minimal restrictions. In most geographies we operate, Express scripts and CVS Caremark account 20% - 40% of the commercial lives. The local BCBS account for another 20%. Aetna about 6% - 10%, Anthem about - 10%, Cigna about 5%. Iroko has some of the top managed care guys in the industry working there. As I said originally, if you invest the time to gather objective knowledge about managed care in your territory, you will be surprised.
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I beg to differ. Look at the mc handouts we received from our rbms. They look great but frankly they are about as meaningful as if I let my 5 year old loose with a box of crayons. The numbers are fantasy, not fantastic. Drs are creatures of habit. When plan x rejects a script after multiple tries, the Dr redlines you from that insurer. Despite what the mc handouts say, BCBS is rejecting a high % of rxes in our district. Now I have lost credibility and trust. If one BCBS plan covers Our products, we can't claim 100% of their lives for coverage.
 



anonymous said:
It's unfortunate that the same physicians who seek scientific evidence turnaround and claim like what is quoted above. 15-20 patients is not a great sample size to draw any conclusions. However, perception is reality. Important thing to note is the focus of targeting for Zorvolex is very different than Zipsor's. And on aggregate for all our targets, Zorvolex share is far greater than that of Zipsor implying that the perception stated above does not represent that of most of our targets
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I thing your wrong. If a Dr continues to get negative feedback from a majority of pts, I don't see why he would continue to use that product. Many drs have a homogeneous pt population, so if a trend emerges, he will act on it quickly. Not for nothing, but there are diabetes meds for AAs, the effects in a population can be more or less pronounced. Science doesn't discriminate, it reacts to the chemical reactions around it. If drug Z doesn't work in your pt pop, youre not going to use it. Duh!
 



anonymous said:
As I said, if you can objectively analyze the population in your area and what plans they belong to - while the coverage in the medicare and medicai is limited, a significant proportion of the commercial lives are covered with minimal restrictions. In most geographies we operate, Express scripts and CVS Caremark account 20% - 40% of the commercial lives. The local BCBS account for another 20%. Aetna about 6% - 10%, Anthem about - 10%, Cigna about 5%. Iroko has some of the top managed care guys in the industry working there. As I said originally, if you invest the time to gather objective knowledge about managed care in your territory, you will be surprised.
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If the managed care is so outstanding then where are the prescriptions??? You and the "top managed care guys in the industry" need to get some coverage. Stop wasting time on CP and get to work. You think you are the smartest guy in the room. Go fill up your car with samples and go visit some offices. Then you will see things from a PSRs perspective. The coverage is awful. Doctors aren't going to consistently write drugs that have step edits and prior authorizations on the top plans. Duh... Duh... Duh...
 



anonymous said:
If the managed care is so outstanding then where are the prescriptions??? You and the "top managed care guys in the industry" need to get some coverage. Stop wasting time on CP and get to work. You think you are the smartest guy in the room. Go fill up your car with samples and go visit some offices. Then you will see things from a PSRs perspective. The coverage is awful. Doctors aren't going to consistently write drugs that have step edits and prior authorizations on the top plans. Duh... Duh... Duh...
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try the new birchet sausage dips
 









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