So many people leaving Lilly. Do they understand why?

First,I have never worked for Lilly, but I did retiree from a major pharma company’s HR department. I come to CP every few months to see what’s going on with various companies and their respective sales teams. As usual, nothing ever changes. No matter the company, the majority of posts are complaints about the company, culture, management, etc.

Let me tell you how you are viewed by UPPER MANAGEMENT & HR. Upper management/HR views you as a temporary commodity. it is very, very unlikely you will remain for over 7 years (when I was in it), whether you voluntarily leave or we get rid of you. That number usually drops. Retention is not as important as say it was 30 to 40 years. Why? We know you have very little meaningful impact anymore. Insurance reimbursement, rebates, etc., have seen to that. Decades ago, reps were able to do much, much more than you are allowed to do today. They sponsored local journal clubs and even applied for CME credit for a local program! They had far more face-to-face time with physicians and were able to be more than just sample droppers. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

In re culture, that has changed in every company in America. People now change companies an average of 7 to 9 times in a career. The eliminates loyalty in both directions. The “what have you done for me today” philosophy is what matters. If you leave, no big deal, there are hundreds of resumes out there for your job. In fact, open territories often do very well for months.

I could write pages on this but it would get boring. Suffice to say you are easily replaced, and not as valuable as you once were in many ways. Since very, very few of you have an actual pension plan where you work (not that would endear loyalty!), the best plan is to move where you can make a significant salary increase. You are paid far better than the average worker. Remember, you do not have a “profession” , you have a “job”, and one that is filled with many insecurities.


I will add … it’s a new day in pharma. Companies value top talent again & DMs at most companies have to constantly keep recruiting their best reps because it’s a hot job market again.
And DMs not only want someone that’s effective & experienced (so they don’t drain all their time teaching them silly basics for years) but equally important is that they want someone they know they can work with & get along with & that will contribute to their team. Every time you hire an outside candidate you’re taking a big guess & you may have to work your ass off to get rid of them & try to guess again on the next hire (nobody like interviewing )
 






Overall I agree with the veteran HR person. No doubt that relationships do matter, but at the end of the day, insurance coverage determines what is written. Now, if drug A is = to drug B in every way ( usually an impossible situation) then the relationship will win out. I think that’s what the HR person was saying, that relationships are not near as important to driving business as they used to be. Also, the fact that there is nothing really to bind a person to a company anymore. Loyalty is long gone. True pensions are gone. How many excellent reps have you known that were laid off and the slacker survived? Money is all that matters.

It’s a numbers game now. Sure DM’s want to keep good reps, it makes their job a lot easier, but they have very little in their toolbox to do that. If someone offers me a $20k salary increase you can bet I am gone! With normal yearly salary increases, how many years will it take to increase your salary by $20k?

My dad’s brother spent 38 or so years with Merck. To him him talk about the “old days” compared to now, you just sit there is disbelief! He said he didn’t even consider it a job, because he had such a great time!

No, you have to look out for yourself because at the end of the day, you may be sitting by the phone the next week.
 












This is the most toxic work environment I’ve ever experienced. People being promoted for reasons other than qualifications. The bogus process of getting promoted solely due to how many DMs you can meet and humiliate yourself by kissing butt and putting your name on as many worthless projects as possible. There is zero trust due to everyone trying to one up each other to be recognized. DM favoritism within district is blatant and ridiculous. Salaries are well below industry average and the raises are laughable. These are the reasons why so many quality reps are leaving. Wake up Lilly.
 






This is the most toxic work environment I’ve ever experienced. People being promoted for reasons other than qualifications. The bogus process of getting promoted solely due to how many DMs you can meet and humiliate yourself by kissing butt and putting your name on as many worthless projects as possible. There is zero trust due to everyone trying to one up each other to be recognized. DM favoritism within district is blatant and ridiculous. Salaries are well below industry average and the raises are laughable. These are the reasons why so many quality reps are leaving. Wake up Lilly.
 






This is insane how many people have left Lilly over the past year.
Dave N & upper leadership are fully aware of how bad the culture has gotten and they said they are going to make changes but nothing has changed.

We have lost some of our best reps and many Executive reps. It’s tough to watch good people leave. What is our turn over rate right now? It has to be one of the highest in the industry.

They’ve gotta make big big changes soon. They have to change the bonus system. Can’t pay $3k based on individual territory performance & $3k based on district performance as a quarterly bonus. No one is gonna really give any effort over controlling $3k of performance each Q lolol.

They have to change internal promotion to Exec Rep. Quit bringing in outside reps that are far less qualified than reps that have worked themselves to the bone to get promoted but you make it so difficult that your internal employees give up trying to get it. But you just give it away to somebody that’s never been at Lilly. Makes zero sense & your internal reps just hate you Lilly.

Why don’t you pay people to get promoted to advanced positions? Want to go from primary care to specialty and a much bigger territory? Ok but Lilly won’t pay you any more than you’re making as a primary care rep. Want to go from primary care rep to a DSM? Ok great! But you still won’t get more base pay.

Lilly…now you’re hiring external candidates & paying them way more than your internal employees. Good god wtf?! And you’re paying external candidates more money that have less qualifications than your internal employees. Again, your internal employees hate you for it.

I thought you said people stay at Lilly for the for the culture & because we treat our people right?

Why didn’t you make the product mixes Iike this: PC1 - TZ & EM, PC2- TZ & TR, PC3 - TZ & JR? That way everybody gets to launch our most exciting drug in TZ. Instead you gave PC3 the worst product mix in the entire company. Drugs that are close to the end of their life cycle & NO ONE is excited about while you give all the hype and attention to PC1 & PC2.

We need better leadership that thinks things through. Or you can just keep watching people leave if you don’t care, which is what we all think right now anyway.

The corporate world isn't for everyone.

Most highly intelligent people work for themselves or work for companies that have more integrity than Lilly, which isn't difficult to find.

Lilly is for below average people with below average thinking skills.
 












The corporate world isn't for everyone.

Most highly intelligent people work for themselves or work for companies that have more integrity than Lilly, which isn't difficult to find.

Lilly is for below average people with below average thinking skills.

Not sure about the integrity part. But yes Lilly is full of below average sales people that aren't capable of working at better companies- that is why they stick around.
 






This is the most toxic work environment I’ve ever experienced. People being promoted for reasons other than qualifications. The bogus process of getting promoted solely due to how many DMs you can meet and humiliate yourself by kissing butt and putting your name on as many worthless projects as possible. There is zero trust due to everyone trying to one up each other to be recognized. DM favoritism within district is blatant and ridiculous. Salaries are well below industry average and the raises are laughable. These are the reasons why so many quality reps are leaving. Wake up Lilly.

100% correct! All of it. I have never spent so much time on things completely unrelated to promoting our products, and perhaps improving my own skills and knowledge ( which I no longer have any time for btw).

Also shocking how much more our competitors are making.
 






This company is run on rampant favoritism. Reps get promoted that are the BD's puppies and reps that SHOULD be promoted are not. There are way too many super young reps and it absolutely makes a difference in the field force. It's an absolute shit show here.
 






Thompany is run on rampant favoritism. Reps get promoted that are the BD's puppies and reps that SHOULD be promoted are not. There are way too many super young reps and it absolutely makes a difference in the field force. It's an absolute shit show here.

Yup - there are multigenerational Lilliputians. Additionally there are cliques based on religious affiliation, and also the endemic IU/Purdue mafia, though Ohio State also has a presence, not to say any of this wrong, no siree, but meritocracy gets sidelined in the long run. Not to say that meritocracy is big outside of startups these days - it seems to all be about DEI more than anything else.

Good luck. Get your time in, get vested so that you can eat ramen noodles and sardines during retirement. This country is past the point of peak prosperity. Get ready.
 






This is Lilly. DR and IY. Two guys that lack real leadership. Smart but can’t be trusted. Heavy push on DEI for ten years will destroy any culture. Executive appointments bad. No substance. The grass definitely greener. Talk to people who have left.
 












This is insane how many people have left Lilly over the past year.
Dave N & upper leadership are fully aware of how bad the culture has gotten and they said they are going to make changes but nothing has changed.

We have lost some of our best reps and many Executive reps. It’s tough to watch good people leave. What is our turn over rate right now? It has to be one of the highest in the industry.

They’ve gotta make big big changes soon. They have to change the bonus system. Can’t pay $3k based on individual territory performance & $3k based on district performance as a quarterly bonus. No one is gonna really give any effort over controlling $3k of performance each Q lolol.

They have to change internal promotion to Exec Rep. Quit bringing in outside reps that are far less qualified than reps that have worked themselves to the bone to get promoted but you make it so difficult that your internal employees give up trying to get it. But you just give it away to somebody that’s never been at Lilly. Makes zero sense & your internal reps just hate you Lilly.

Why don’t you pay people to get promoted to advanced positions? Want to go from primary care to specialty and a much bigger territory? Ok but Lilly won’t pay you any more than you’re making as a primary care rep. Want to go from primary care rep to a DSM? Ok great! But you still won’t get more base pay.

Lilly…now you’re hiring external candidates & paying them way more than your internal employees. Good god wtf?! And you’re paying external candidates more money that have less qualifications than your internal employees. Again, your internal employees hate you for it.

I thought you said people stay at Lilly for the for the culture & because we treat our people right?

Why didn’t you make the product mixes Iike this: PC1 - TZ & EM, PC2- TZ & TR, PC3 - TZ & JR? That way everybody gets to launch our most exciting drug in TZ. Instead you gave PC3 the worst product mix in the entire company. Drugs that are close to the end of their life cycle & NO ONE is excited about while you give all the hype and attention to PC1 & PC2.

We need better leadership that thinks things through. Or you can just keep watching people leave if you don’t care, which is what we all think right now anyway.

This post is well over a year old and is more true today than ever before. This company is just terrible. I've been here 10 years and I don't want to leave, but I have to. It's not the same Lilly as before. Just recently, I've been applying to other companies. Makes me sad, but also hopeful
 












Lilly has gotten worse over the years. As someone who worked there many years and saw how ridiculous the incentives and promotion process was. Until you work for another company that pays you for your sales and not for sucking up, you don’t realize how toxic Lilly is. The reason it’s so hard for them to hire good talent is because everyone in the industry knows how Lilly works, how little they pay and how impossible it is to get promoted. That leaves Lilly with kids just out of college and inexperienced reps. The grass is greener on the other side.
 






I did an internship in manufacturing last summer and was recently hired in manufacturing at Lilly. However, I want to laterally transition into sales at lilly, how long should I stay in a sales role before I look into different companies? A lot of the sales reps I meet thus far at lilly love their job and sone say they came for the job security, but I don’t want to transition and get disappointed as the area I want to move to has a higher cause of living. No, I’m not just in it for the money but more so not being tied down to my desk dealing with a bunch of bureaucratic manufacturing issues, etc.
 






I did an internship in manufacturing last summer and was recently hired in manufacturing at Lilly. However, I want to laterally transition into sales at lilly, how long should I stay in a sales role before I look into different companies? A lot of the sales reps I meet thus far at lilly love their job and sone say they came for the job security, but I don’t want to transition and get disappointed as the area I want to move to has a higher cause of living. No, I’m not just in it for the money but more so not being tied down to my desk dealing with a bunch of bureaucratic manufacturing issues, etc.
Sounds like you're a recent college grad. Nothing wrong with getting sales experience, but make sure you have a well thought out plan for where you ultimately want to go career-wise. If you're as young as you sound, you have your whole career ahead of you. Planning to spend all of it as a pharma sales rep is both boring and risky.
 






I did an internship in manufacturing last summer and was recently hired in manufacturing at Lilly. However, I want to laterally transition into sales at lilly, how long should I stay in a sales role before I look into different companies? A lot of the sales reps I meet thus far at lilly love their job and sone say they came for the job security, but I don’t want to transition and get disappointed as the area I want to move to has a higher cause of living. No, I’m not just in it for the money but more so not being tied down to my desk dealing with a bunch of bureaucratic manufacturing issues, etc.
You’re going to fit perfectly.
 






Sounds like you're a recent college grad. Nothing wrong with getting sales experience, but make sure you have a well thought out plan for where you ultimately want to go career-wise. If you're as young as you sound, you have your whole career ahead of you. Planning to spend all of it as a pharma sales rep is both boring and risky.


Yea I want to use it as a way to dive into the “business sector” and plan on going back to school to get a MBA. I have a few ideas about where I want to ultimately land. I’ve been networking with marketing, finance, etc.