So many people leaving Lilly. Do they understand why?

[anonymous]

This is insane how many people have left Lilly over the past year.
Dave N & upper leadership are fully aware of how bad the culture has gotten and they said they are going to make changes but nothing has changed.

We have lost some of our best reps and many Executive reps. It’s tough to watch good people leave. What is our turn over rate right now? It has to be one of the highest in the industry.

They’ve gotta make big big changes soon. They have to change the bonus system. Can’t pay $3k based on individual territory performance & $3k based on district performance as a quarterly bonus. No one is gonna really give any effort over controlling $3k of performance each Q lolol.

They have to change internal promotion to Exec Rep. Quit bringing in outside reps that are far less qualified than reps that have worked themselves to the bone to get promoted but you make it so difficult that your internal employees give up trying to get it. But you just give it away to somebody that’s never been at Lilly. Makes zero sense & your internal reps just hate you Lilly.

Why don’t you pay people to get promoted to advanced positions? Want to go from primary care to specialty and a much bigger territory? Ok but Lilly won’t pay you any more than you’re making as a primary care rep. Want to go from primary care rep to a DSM? Ok great! But you still won’t get more base pay.

Lilly…now you’re hiring external candidates & paying them way more than your internal employees. Good god wtf?! And you’re paying external candidates more money that have less qualifications than your internal employees. Again, your internal employees hate you for it.

I thought you said people stay at Lilly for the for the culture & because we treat our people right?

Why didn’t you make the product mixes Iike this: PC1 - TZ & EM, PC2- TZ & TR, PC3 - TZ & JR? That way everybody gets to launch our most exciting drug in TZ. Instead you gave PC3 the worst product mix in the entire company. Drugs that are close to the end of their life cycle & NO ONE is excited about while you give all the hype and attention to PC1 & PC2.

We need better leadership that thinks things through. Or you can just keep watching people leave if you don’t care, which is what we all think right now anyway.

 

[anonymous]

This is the most toxic work environment I’ve ever experienced. People being promoted for reasons other than qualifications. The bogus process of getting promoted solely due to how many DMs you can meet and humiliate yourself by kissing butt and putting your name on as many worthless projects as possible. There is zero trust due to everyone trying to one up each other to be recognized. DM favoritism within district is blatant and ridiculous. Salaries are well below industry average and the raises are laughable. These are the reasons why so many quality reps are leaving. Wake up Lilly.

 

[anonymous]

This is the most toxic work environment I’ve ever experienced. People being promoted for reasons other than qualifications. The bogus process of getting promoted solely due to how many DMs you can meet and humiliate yourself by kissing butt and putting your name on as many worthless projects as possible. There is zero trust due to everyone trying to one up each other to be recognized. DM favoritism within district is blatant and ridiculous. Salaries are well below industry average and the raises are laughable. These are the reasons why so many quality reps are leaving. Wake up Lilly.

I’m not sure Lilly can recover from this toxic culture that they created. I guess they could but they are going to have to do a lot of work to fix it! A LOT!
And I’m not convinced they will.
I hate it here. HATE it!
I’m definitely not killing my self over $3k a quarter bonus from my territory work.
I’m employed here but I’ve quit. Just going through the motions, hitting my metrics & nothing more.
And yes, you only get promoted if your DSM has targeted you for it. They’ll put you in the roles to get you recognized & give you MVPs, etc

This place sucks

 

[anonymous]

This is the most toxic work environment I’ve ever experienced. People being promoted for reasons other than qualifications. The bogus process of getting promoted solely due to how many DMs you can meet and humiliate yourself by kissing butt and putting your name on as many worthless projects as possible. There is zero trust due to everyone trying to one up each other to be recognized. DM favoritism within district is blatant and ridiculous. Salaries are well below industry average and the raises are laughable. These are the reasons why so many quality reps are leaving. Wake up Lilly.

Wait until you figure out how much a lot of the new hires are getting paid in base salary that have less experience and fewer qualifications than internal reps at Lilly.
When you find that out it’ll set you on fire. Start asking around

 

[anonymous]

This is insane how many people have left Lilly over the past year.
Dave N & upper leadership are fully aware of how bad the culture has gotten and they said they are going to make changes but nothing has changed.

We have lost some of our best reps and many Executive reps. It’s tough to watch good people leave. What is our turn over rate right now? It has to be one of the highest in the industry.

They’ve gotta make big big changes soon. They have to change the bonus system. Can’t pay $3k based on individual territory performance & $3k based on district performance as a quarterly bonus. No one is gonna really give any effort over controlling $3k of performance each Q lolol.

They have to change internal promotion to Exec Rep. Quit bringing in outside reps that are far less qualified than reps that have worked themselves to the bone to get promoted but you make it so difficult that your internal employees give up trying to get it. But you just give it away to somebody that’s never been at Lilly. Makes zero sense & your internal reps just hate you Lilly.

Why don’t you pay people to get promoted to advanced positions? Want to go from primary care to specialty and a much bigger territory? Ok but Lilly won’t pay you any more than you’re making as a primary care rep. Want to go from primary care rep to a DSM? Ok great! But you still won’t get more base pay.

Lilly…now you’re hiring external candidates & paying them way more than your internal employees. Good god wtf?! And you’re paying external candidates more money that have less qualifications than your internal employees. Again, your internal employees hate you for it.

I thought you said people stay at Lilly for the for the culture & because we treat our people right?

Why didn’t you make the product mixes Iike this: PC1 - TZ & EM, PC2- TZ & TR, PC3 - TZ & JR? That way everybody gets to launch our most exciting drug in TZ. Instead you gave PC3 the worst product mix in the entire company. Drugs that are close to the end of their life cycle & NO ONE is excited about while you give all the hype and attention to PC1 & PC2.

We need better leadership that thinks things through. Or you can just keep watching people leave if you don’t care, which is what we all think right now anyway.

I feel your pain. Lots of frustrating observations in this post. The promotion process is flawed and I agree that bringing reps in at an Executive Level is painful for many Senior level reps to see. However, that is a result of underpaying employees at all levels. Underpaying employees (bonus potential, salary, random stock grants, 1-2% raises) over time erodes employee engagement and loyalty. Hence the reason we have quite a bit of turn-over. Many people are leaving for more money. Conversely, in order to attract “outside talent” we have to give them a higher salary than our own reps, in order to be competitive, which further erodes loyalty. Additionally,we have traditionally targeted early career professionals who then have to work their way up the slow and archaic promotional process which can take a decade or longer. Also, don’t put to much emphasis on “Titles”. HR can change those randomly to appease you and appear competitive without increasing compensation. Just ask our “inside” colleagues. It’s a game, and I feel your pain.

Framing for DBU sleeve alignments that have made me more comfortable with the decisions made by Senior Leadership:

Would our Alliance partner be happy giving away a large percentage of profits earned to a partner company who only promoted their product in the second position, and would we violate any standing agreements/contracts by doing so?

We may be launching a new medication soon, do we want that medication to ever be in the second position during a launch year? What product could be more important than our newest medication? What product deserves to be placed in the P1 position ahead of our new product?

Finally, Jar is a great medication! It has new indications and lots of promotional runway (at least another 5-8 years.. I think..)

This line of thinking assisted me in accepting the decisions Senior Leadership made regarding the product sleeves. Hope it helps you.

 

[anonymous]

I’m not sure Lilly can recover from this toxic culture that they created. I guess they could but they are going to have to do a lot of work to fix it! A LOT!
And I’m not convinced they will.
I hate it here. HATE it!
I’m definitely not killing my self over $3k a quarter bonus from my territory work.
I’m employed here but I’ve quit. Just going through the motions, hitting my metrics & nothing more.
And yes, you only get promoted if your DSM has targeted you for it. They’ll put you in the roles to get you recognized & give you MVPs, etc

This place sucks

When you resign, post your resignation letter here in this thread. That way, when your resignation is quickly followed by nine or ten others, they'll get the message and stop making us work like beasts for crappy pay.

 

[anonymous]

I feel your pain. Lots of frustrating observations in this post. The promotion process is flawed and I agree that bringing reps in at an Executive Level is painful for many Senior level reps to see. However, that is a result of underpaying employees at all levels. Underpaying employees (bonus potential, salary, random stock grants, 1-2% raises) over time erodes employee engagement and loyalty. Hence the reason we have quite a bit of turn-over. Many people are leaving for more money. Conversely, in order to attract “outside talent” we have to give them a higher salary than our own reps, in order to be competitive, which further erodes loyalty. Additionally,we have traditionally targeted early career professionals who then have to work their way up the slow and archaic promotional process which can take a decade or longer. Also, don’t put to much emphasis on “Titles”. HR can change those randomly to appease you and appear competitive without increasing compensation. Just ask our “inside” colleagues. It’s a game, and I feel your pain.

Framing for DBU sleeve alignments that have made me more comfortable with the decisions made by Senior Leadership:

Would our Alliance partner be happy giving away a large percentage of profits earned to a partner company who only promoted their product in the second position, and would we violate any standing agreements/contracts by doing so?

We may be launching a new medication soon, do we want that medication to ever be in the second position during a launch year? What product could be more important than our newest medication? What product deserves to be placed in the P1 position ahead of our new product?

Finally, Jar is a great medication! It has new indications and lots of promotional runway (at least another 5-8 years.. I think..)

This line of thinking assisted me in accepting the decisions Senior Leadership made regarding the product sleeves. Hope it helps you.

Jardiance is a maintain drug. It’s been on the market 8 years and it is at a pretty big indication disadvantage at the moment vs FX in CKD.
New Jardiance indication lmao lololol. Ok sure., that will help a little if you’re a specialty rep calling on Cardiologists. It’s not gonna matter or help at all with primary care physicians.
On top of that we have HUGE growth goals on a drug that starting to get towards the sunset in the market. So good luck growing that. At best it’s a new too compared to Farxiga.

Oh… you do realize Tirzepitide is coming right? It’s gonna kill the market of SGLT2 along with OZ high dose. Control a patients A1C & weight reduction with one drug & 1 co-pay which will reduce heart attacks, hypertension, etc which reduces CV events. So SGLT2s will be used after a GLP1 if needed. And you’ll have to wait a while for that SGLT2 prescription as HCPs work through the dosing options of the GLP1 to see if a patient even needs an SGLT2.

PC3 launch a new medication? Surely to god you dint still believe our Alzheimer’s drug is getting approved?!? Lololololol. If it should slide through CMM has an ready said they won’t pay for it. Umm that means no Medicare & no Medicaid coverage bud.

Emgality is done. It’s a maintain market share drug at this point. We aren’t converting these supposed big preventative writers. It hasn’t been done in 4 years by us, Teva, Amgen and now Abbvie. It’s just fight it out in the class. But again… HUGE growth goals for a product in the sunset of its lifespan.
But our Alzheimer’s drug isn’t getting approved chief. It’s already been delayed 1 year. Have you looked up why?

Thry can hire a contract sales force to give BI their P1 calls just like they did for Specialty Reps when they moved them completely off Jardiance to Tirzepitide.

Is Jardiance a good drug? Sure. But it’s a maintain market share & try not to lose market share kind of drug. And we will absolutely be fitting for the patient after metformin that’s on a GLP1 that may just need a little more A1C control.

Sorry … if leadership didn’t think this through but no one in PC3 is happy at all. Leadership knows it. Dave mentioned it in his last video.

Also I agree with other posters. Bonus sucks. Promotion process sucks. Outside candidates getting better titles than long time internal employees. Outside candidates with less experience being brought in at higher pay than more qualified internal employees = disaster of a culture. Will take a lot to fix

 

[anonymous]

Jardiance is a maintain drug. It’s been on the market 8 years and it is at a pretty big indication disadvantage at the moment vs FX in CKD.
New Jardiance indication lmao lololol. Ok sure., that will help a little if you’re a specialty rep calling on Cardiologists. It’s not gonna matter or help at all with primary care physicians.
On top of that we have HUGE growth goals on a drug that starting to get towards the sunset in the market. So good luck growing that. At best it’s a new too compared to Farxiga.

Oh… you do realize Tirzepitide is coming right? It’s gonna kill the market of SGLT2 along with OZ high dose. Control a patients A1C & weight reduction with one drug & 1 co-pay which will reduce heart attacks, hypertension, etc which reduces CV events. So SGLT2s will be used after a GLP1 if needed. And you’ll have to wait a while for that SGLT2 prescription as HCPs work through the dosing options of the GLP1 to see if a patient even needs an SGLT2.

PC3 launch a new medication? Surely to god you dint still believe our Alzheimer’s drug is getting approved?!? Lololololol. If it should slide through CMM has an ready said they won’t pay for it. Umm that means no Medicare & no Medicaid coverage bud.

Emgality is done. It’s a maintain market share drug at this point. We aren’t converting these supposed big preventative writers. It hasn’t been done in 4 years by us, Teva, Amgen and now Abbvie. It’s just fight it out in the class. But again… HUGE growth goals for a product in the sunset of its lifespan.
But our Alzheimer’s drug isn’t getting approved chief. It’s already been delayed 1 year. Have you looked up why?

Thry can hire a contract sales force to give BI their P1 calls just like they did for Specialty Reps when they moved them completely off Jardiance to Tirzepitide.

Is Jardiance a good drug? Sure. But it’s a maintain market share & try not to lose market share kind of drug. And we will absolutely be fitting for the patient after metformin that’s on a GLP1 that may just need a little more A1C control.

Sorry … if leadership didn’t think this through but no one in PC3 is happy at all. Leadership knows it. Dave mentioned it in his last video.

Also I agree with other posters. Bonus sucks. Promotion process sucks. Outside candidates getting better titles than long time internal employees. Outside candidates with less experience being brought in at higher pay than more qualified internal employees = disaster of a culture. Will take a lot to fix

 

[anonymous]

Time for you to leave. Find another place to bitch. Obviously there is a much better company than here. Let us all know where that place is..
Adios.

 

[anonymous]

Yeah I think some of y’all are trying too hard here lol.
What I mean is that this is a company & a job where you do just enough to keep your job and then go home.

Obviously we all know that Bonus isn’t rewarding for your individual performance so do just enough to get a Meets Expectations each year.

And who gives AF about getting promoted? It’s all political anyway. They can keep their $6k for ESR lmao lol. I’ll just see my 8 people per day, go to the gym, stop by Target, pick up the kids from school and be home by 3:30. I’ll never miss that extra $25 per pay check before taxes & not getting abused by committing to kissing as many DSM’s ass in hopes that they’d vote for me.

 

[anonymous]

Jardiance is a maintain drug. It’s been on the market 8 years and it is at a pretty big indication disadvantage at the moment vs FX in CKD.
New Jardiance indication lmao lololol. Ok sure., that will help a little if you’re a specialty rep calling on Cardiologists. It’s not gonna matter or help at all with primary care physicians.
On top of that we have HUGE growth goals on a drug that starting to get towards the sunset in the market. So good luck growing that. At best it’s a new too compared to Farxiga.

Oh… you do realize Tirzepitide is coming right? It’s gonna kill the market of SGLT2 along with OZ high dose. Control a patients A1C & weight reduction with one drug & 1 co-pay which will reduce heart attacks, hypertension, etc which reduces CV events. So SGLT2s will be used after a GLP1 if needed. And you’ll have to wait a while for that SGLT2 prescription as HCPs work through the dosing options of the GLP1 to see if a patient even needs an SGLT2.

PC3 launch a new medication? Surely to god you dint still believe our Alzheimer’s drug is getting approved?!? Lololololol. If it should slide through CMM has an ready said they won’t pay for it. Umm that means no Medicare & no Medicaid coverage bud.

Emgality is done. It’s a maintain market share drug at this point. We aren’t converting these supposed big preventative writers. It hasn’t been done in 4 years by us, Teva, Amgen and now Abbvie. It’s just fight it out in the class. But again… HUGE growth goals for a product in the sunset of its lifespan.
But our Alzheimer’s drug isn’t getting approved chief. It’s already been delayed 1 year. Have you looked up why?

Thry can hire a contract sales force to give BI their P1 calls just like they did for Specialty Reps when they moved them completely off Jardiance to Tirzepitide.

Is Jardiance a good drug? Sure. But it’s a maintain market share & try not to lose market share kind of drug. And we will absolutely be fitting for the patient after metformin that’s on a GLP1 that may just need a little more A1C control.

Sorry … if leadership didn’t think this through but no one in PC3 is happy at all. Leadership knows it. Dave mentioned it in his last video.

Also I agree with other posters. Bonus sucks. Promotion process sucks. Outside candidates getting better titles than long time internal employees. Outside candidates with less experience being brought in at higher pay than more qualified internal employees = disaster of a culture. Will take a lot to fix

 

[anonymous]

Dave N is the biggest joke there is. Mention culture and the reason we are like we are? It is because of him. King of nepotism. Promoting people for statistics. I honestly can’t believe anyone puts up with him anymore. But then again we have DR… so there is that. We are totally screwed. The next opportunity I have, I am OUTTA here! I know that they don't care, replace me with a college hire. Everyone I talk to that has left is so damn glad they did. Here’s to all those new AVPs and senior directors!

 

[anonymous]

Dave N is the biggest joke there is. Mention culture and the reason we are like we are? It is because of him. King of nepotism. Promoting people for statistics. I honestly can’t believe anyone puts up with him anymore. But then again we have DR… so there is that. We are totally screwed. The next opportunity I have, I am OUTTA here! I know that they don't care, replace me with a college hire. Everyone I talk to that has left is so damn glad they did. Here’s to all those new AVPs and senior directors!

Same for me. This culture is toxic.
I’m already looking for the right opportunity. I’m not going to leave for another company unless it has some sort of stability but I will leave as soon as I find it.

And no, they won’t care & I don’t care that they won’t care. It’s a win for me and I’m ready to work for a company that I will enjoy working for

 

[anonymous]

Couldn’t have said this better myself!

Same for me. This culture is toxic.
I’m already looking for the right opportunity. I’m not going to leave for another company unless it has some sort of stability but I will leave as soon as I find it.

And no, they won’t care & I don’t care that they won’t care. It’s a win for me and I’m ready to work for a company that I will enjoy working for

 

[anonymous]

Couldn’t have said this better myself!

Most of us in PC3 are just going through the motions

 

[anonymous]

So glad I left lilly. What a toxic culture. Worked there for many years. The company is not what it once was. the grass is greener on the other side. The bonuses are much better and reps are measured on performance not on all the ass kissing and stupid projects lilly has everyone do. Additionally, promotions go to people who deserve it and not someone right out of school with no experience whatsoever.

Lilly doesn’t care why people are leaving. This is their culture now. They are not interested in retaining talent.

 

[anonymous]

So glad I left lilly. What a toxic culture. Worked there for many years. The company is not what it once was. the grass is greener on the other side. The bonuses are much better and reps are measured on performance not on all the ass kissing and stupid projects lilly has everyone do. Additionally, promotions go to people who deserve it and not someone right out of school with no experience whatsoever.

Lilly doesn’t care why people are leaving. This is their culture now. They are not interested in retaining talent.

Lilly doesn’t GAF about taking care of their people. They used to care but not any more.
That used to be the selling point of Lilly.

Lilly has a weak bonus structure & a horrible promotion process and the pay is substandard but Lilly preached that they always take care of their people. Hasn’t been like that in a few years & is getting much worse. Just look at all the people who have left

 

[anonymous]

First,I have never worked for Lilly, but I did retiree from a major pharma company’s HR department. I come to CP every few months to see what’s going on with various companies and their respective sales teams. As usual, nothing ever changes. No matter the company, the majority of posts are complaints about the company, culture, management, etc.

Let me tell you how you are viewed by UPPER MANAGEMENT & HR. Upper management/HR views you as a temporary commodity. it is very, very unlikely you will remain for over 7 years (when I was in it), whether you voluntarily leave or we get rid of you. That number usually drops. Retention is not as important as say it was 30 to 40 years. Why? We know you have very little meaningful impact anymore. Insurance reimbursement, rebates, etc., have seen to that. Decades ago, reps were able to do much, much more than you are allowed to do today. They sponsored local journal clubs and even applied for CME credit for a local program! They had far more face-to-face time with physicians and were able to be more than just sample droppers. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

In re culture, that has changed in every company in America. People now change companies an average of 7 to 9 times in a career. The eliminates loyalty in both directions. The “what have you done for me today” philosophy is what matters. If you leave, no big deal, there are hundreds of resumes out there for your job. In fact, open territories often do very well for months.

I could write pages on this but it would get boring. Suffice to say you are easily replaced, and not as valuable as you once were in many ways. Since very, very few of you have an actual pension plan where you work (not that would endear loyalty!), the best plan is to move where you can make a significant salary increase. You are paid far better than the average worker. Remember, you do not have a “profession” , you have a “job”, and one that is filled with many insecurities.

 

[anonymous]

First,I have never worked for Lilly, but I did retiree from a major pharma company’s HR department. I come to CP every few months to see what’s going on with various companies and their respective sales teams. As usual, nothing ever changes. No matter the company, the majority of posts are complaints about the company, culture, management, etc.

Let me tell you how you are viewed by UPPER MANAGEMENT & HR. Upper management/HR views you as a temporary commodity. it is very, very unlikely you will remain for over 7 years (when I was in it), whether you voluntarily leave or we get rid of you. That number usually drops. Retention is not as important as say it was 30 to 40 years. Why? We know you have very little meaningful impact anymore. Insurance reimbursement, rebates, etc., have seen to that. Decades ago, reps were able to do much, much more than you are allowed to do today. They sponsored local journal clubs and even applied for CME credit for a local program! They had far more face-to-face time with physicians and were able to be more than just sample droppers. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

In re culture, that has changed in every company in America. People now change companies an average of 7 to 9 times in a career. The eliminates loyalty in both directions. The “what have you done for me today” philosophy is what matters. If you leave, no big deal, there are hundreds of resumes out there for your job. In fact, open territories often do very well for months.

I could write pages on this but it would get boring. Suffice to say you are easily replaced, and not as valuable as you once were in many ways. Since very, very few of you have an actual pension plan where you work (not that would endear loyalty!), the best plan is to move where you can make a significant salary increase. You are paid far better than the average worker. Remember, you do not have a “profession” , you have a “job”, and one that is filled with many insecurities.

Spot on. I transitioned out of the field years ago and work “inside” now. This poster is correct. Reps and inside personnel are replaceable. Go to “Lilly Now” and verify with our own application how our company views you and your role. In my profile under “Job details” ( “job overview” and then “characteristics”) based on what’s listed there my current role is “Easy to fill” and “not critical”. That really sums it up for me. Not sure if the description for a sales representative is similar.

 

[anonymous]

First,I have never worked for Lilly, but I did retiree from a major pharma company’s HR department. I come to CP every few months to see what’s going on with various companies and their respective sales teams. As usual, nothing ever changes. No matter the company, the majority of posts are complaints about the company, culture, management, etc.

Let me tell you how you are viewed by UPPER MANAGEMENT & HR. Upper management/HR views you as a temporary commodity. it is very, very unlikely you will remain for over 7 years (when I was in it), whether you voluntarily leave or we get rid of you. That number usually drops. Retention is not as important as say it was 30 to 40 years. Why? We know you have very little meaningful impact anymore. Insurance reimbursement, rebates, etc., have seen to that. Decades ago, reps were able to do much, much more than you are allowed to do today. They sponsored local journal clubs and even applied for CME credit for a local program! They had far more face-to-face time with physicians and were able to be more than just sample droppers. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

In re culture, that has changed in every company in America. People now change companies an average of 7 to 9 times in a career. The eliminates loyalty in both directions. The “what have you done for me today” philosophy is what matters. If you leave, no big deal, there are hundreds of resumes out there for your job. In fact, open territories often do very well for months.

I could write pages on this but it would get boring. Suffice to say you are easily replaced, and not as valuable as you once were in many ways. Since very, very few of you have an actual pension plan where you work (not that would endear loyalty!), the best plan is to move where you can make a significant salary increase. You are paid far better than the average worker. Remember, you do not have a “profession” , you have a “job”, and one that is filled with many insecurities.

Appreciate your perspective & respectfully disagree.

1. Lilly just went through an expansion & we totally learned how tough it is to find good reps. Hiring reps out of college & with little experience is a miserable experience. Plus we pay them very little & they leave us after 2-3 years for a much bigger increase in base pay with other companies.

2. We also learned in Covid that experience & relationships absolutely matter. Huge difference in accessibility in offices.

3. I know you’re speaking from HR experience & I respect that. But good twos absolutely make a difference in a territory. If you could poll the HCPs and there are drugs that are competitive then ask them what makes the difference.
Lilly got beat by Ozempic that’s very tough to tolerate & patients have a miserable experience jabbing themselves with a needle. TR has an easy auto injector that’s easier to tolerate.
But Novo pays damn good money to obtain talent & Lilly hires young inexperienced reps so they beat our asses. TR is easier to tolerate, easier to use & has better coverage & we still lost lol