questions about Perry

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Vagitarian said:
Actually EXCELLENT posts by both SPN and Hairy. I sell vaccines (not that one) and over the years my company has had one project after another focusing on state mandates. They try to push for a state mandate for kids entering daycare, a state mandate for kids entering grade school, here's a state mandate for 11 yr old girls and they'd like a state mandate for Meningoccal vaccine by 18 years. And what do these mandates accomplish more than anything else? $ale$ dollar$. And guess which state is always the first to issue a mandate? Texa$.

It's the good-ol'-boy way of business - more than likely conducted on the golf course.
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There is one place I wish they would have a very serious mandate with no exceptions, and that is the vaccine for meningococcal meningitis for any college kid planning to live in the dorms. Yes, it is rare, but it hits fast and furiously. Too many dismiss it as a non issue and don't understand the heightened risk of living in close quarters with lots of other people.
 












Vagitarian said:
Correction: The Republican Party MUST NOT allow abortion to become an issue if they want to have any chance - the abortion issue isn't a liberal issue, as SPN very correctly pointed out, it's Perry's brand of conservatism's and suspect at best. BTW, SPN, that was a pretty good post, I'm actually going to read it again. As I see it, balanced budget is the #1 issue right now - and it should be for ALL registered Dems, ALL registered Republicans & ALL registered Independents like myself. Why would any sensible conservative candidate risk the financial underpinnings which are criticall, on any other issue?
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The pertinent question is why would any sensible voter of any stripe risk the financial underpinnings which are critical on any other issue?

Anyone who doesn't vote for the Republican candidate this time around is deranged, even if they pledged to outlaw abortion their first day in office. What is more important? Killing babies or making sure that the economy and our nation isn't killed?

Sorry, but we social conservatives have heard this lame song over and over again, "Abortion and social issues are a loser for you". The truth is that they rarely, if ever are. They are WINNING issues for Republican candidates.

There is also some interesting research on voting records in the Senate which indicate that if you want fiscal conservatism, then social conservatism comes along as part of the bargain. The senator or representative who is a staunch fiscal conservative while being socially moderate or liberal is basically as mythical a beast as the unicorn. The political reality is that if you want genuine, consistent fiscal sanity, you have to elect candidates who are also going to be socially conservative.
 






SPN said:
I was not aware the chicken pox vaccine had problems surfacing. We gave it to the one child who managed to not get chicken pox during childhood. We felt chicken pox was not a major concern for a young, healthy child but knew it can be much more serious for a young adult. The one who didn't get it, despite being exposed numerous times, was vaccinated just prior to starting college. We have to avoid becoming anti vaccine nuts, but also have rights and responsibilities as parents to weigh pros and cons before vaccinating. In my childhood, my parents only gave the MMR vaccine to the boys as mumps could cause sterility but there was questionable need for girls. Now we know that you want to have had rubella or be vaccinated before pregnancy.
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But colleges and businesses should have the right to refuse employment and service to unvaccinated people just like they have the right to refuse service to those who don't speak English, right? It's each persons right to be unvaccinated, un educated and unemployed. Don't force any of it on us.

Me? I've had everyt fucking vaccine known to mankind - but it's my choice.
 






Man For All Seasons said:
The pertinent question is why would any sensible voter of any stripe risk the financial underpinnings which are critical on any other issue?

Anyone who doesn't vote for the Republican candidate this time around is deranged, even if they pledged to outlaw abortion their first day in office. What is more important? Killing babies or making sure that the economy and our nation isn't killed?

Sorry, but we social conservatives have heard this lame song over and over again, "Abortion and social issues are a loser for you". The truth is that they rarely, if ever are. They are WINNING issues for Republican candidates.

There is also some interesting research on voting records in the Senate which indicate that if you want fiscal conservatism, then social conservatism comes along as part of the bargain. The senator or representative who is a staunch fiscal conservative while being socially moderate or liberal is basically as mythical a beast as the unicorn. The political reality is that if you want genuine, consistent fiscal sanity, you have to elect candidates who are also going to be socially conservative.
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You can rant all your personal religious beliefs all you want but the fact is - the majority of the voting public will value their freedom over theoretic economic stability.
 






Now can you see what I mean? Suddenly the entire thread has been highjacked into the abortion issue. It is a highly emotional issue, and one that nobody ever wins discussing.

Can anyone tell me how many times any American president has overruled Roe v. Wade? Carter, Clinton and OhBlahBlagh have all had an opportunity to introduce legislation legalizing abortion. Why haven't they?

Does anybody remember (without looking) what the Supreme Court vote was?

This whole discussion could split the Republican Party in much the same way that it has split the Conservative discussion in this thread.

Remember what the goal is ,please: to get of President OBlahBlah.
 
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I agree with you BB. Abortion is a critical issue to discuss but not really the priority for this election and not really the subject at hand.

So, to refocus, among the republican candidates, how do you view Perry? Is he the real deal, a fiscal conservative with the ability to address the nation's financial woes? Can he get more people back to meaningful work? Among the republican candidates, based on what we know today, who do you think is the best candidate (not the front-runner in polls, but who can get the job done)?
 






SPN said:
I agree with you BB. Abortion is a critical issue to discuss but not really the priority for this election and not really the subject at hand.

So, to refocus, among the republican candidates, how do you view Perry? Is he the real deal, a fiscal conservative with the ability to address the nation's financial woes? Can he get more people back to meaningful work? Among the republican candidates, based on what we know today, who do you think is the best candidate (not the front-runner in polls, but who can get the job done)?
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Perry has spent nearly all of his life in public office, and is not a businessman.

That having been said, he seems to know how to stimulate economic growth, at least on the state level. I'm not sure anybody will be able to undo all of the regulatory and economic harm that OBlahBlah has done to us, but we can be pretty well assured that President B.O. cannot. I like most of Perry's ideas, and he seems to be a man of his word.

Ironically, whoever the Republican nominee is, he will win the Presidency and end up getting credit for fixing the economy, whether deserved or not. He can do that in his first day in office simply by rescinding all of President B.O.'s executive orders, and sending a bill to Congress to repeal Obamacare (presuming that the Republicans will end up with a majority in both house, which I feel is probable).

The importance of repealing Obamacare cannot be over emphasized. Romney is, in my opinion, a RINO, and I don't trust him. I don't care that Perry changed parties 23 years ago. Reagan was once a Democrat too.

I fear that the hockey mom will declare her candidacy. If she does, she'll end up being another Ross Perot, and everybody remembers who won that one.
 
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Vagitarian said:
You can rant all your personal religious beliefs all you want but the fact is - the majority of the voting public will value their freedom over theoretic economic stability.
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Great theory there, Vag. There's just one problem, it doesn't square with the facts, at least not according to your definition of "freedom".

Even using your definition, a little poverty will go a long way toward causing people to set aside their valuing their "freedom" for "theoretic economic stability". There is nothing "theoretic" about people having jobs and being able to provide for their families and having a future. Not everyone is so hooked on weed and illicite sex that they let things like that dominate their lives
 






Man For All Seasons said:
Great theory there, Vag. There's just one problem, it doesn't square with the facts, at least not according to your definition of "freedom".

Even using your definition, a little poverty will go a long way toward causing people to set aside their valuing their "freedom" for "theoretic economic stability". There is nothing "theoretic" about people having jobs and being able to provide for their families and having a future. Not everyone is so hooked on weed and illicite sex that they let things like that dominate their lives
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What illicit sex do I have?
 






Vagitarian said:
What illicit sex do I have?
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Hey, genius. All sex outside of marriage has historically been viewed as illicit in our society. You shouldn't be doing it, especially since you've made it painfully obvious that you have no interest in marriage. That makes it all the worse.

Thanks for the foolish question which allowed me the opportunity to school you yet again.

And your political analysis remains horrendously flawed. Pro-life and other socially conservative positions are winners in presidential politics, ESPECIALLY when accompanied by sound fiscal policies.

The first job of any Republican candidate will be to secure and energize their base, which will include a large percentage of socially conservative and religious voters. Without these they can't win. If independents are too stupid to accept the social positions, even if they don't agree with them necessarily, then they will deserve what they get with four more years of Odisaster! Sadly the rest of us won't deserve, but may have to endure it. Anyone who does not vote for a change is one sad, clueless puppy.
 
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Man For All Seasons said:
Hey, genius. All sex outside of marriage has historically been viewed as illicit in our society. You shouldn't be doing it, especially since you've made it painfully obvious that you have no interest in marriage. That makes it all the worse.

Thanks for the foolish question which allowed me the opportunity to school you yet again.

And your political analysis remains horrendously flawed. Pro-life and other socially conservative positions are winners in presidential politics, ESPECIALLY when accompanied by sound fiscal policies.

The first job of any Republican candidate will be to secure and energize their base, which will include a large percentage of socially conservative and religious voters. Without these they can't win. If independents are too stupid to accept the social positions, even if they don't agree with them necessarily, then they will deserve what they get with four more years of Odisaster! Sadly the rest of us won't deserve, but may have to endure it. Anyone who does not vote for a change is one sad, clueless puppy.
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So everyone who isn't married should remain celibate - and if they don't - the sex they're having is 'illicit'? What fucking planet are you from. I'll bet there isn't one fucking person here who hasn't had sex when they were single. And by the way Mr Holier-than-thou, it's good stuff. LOLOL ! :cool:
 






Vagitarian said:
But colleges and businesses should have the right to refuse employment and service to unvaccinated people just like they have the right to refuse service to those who don't speak English, right? It's each persons right to be unvaccinated, un educated and unemployed. Don't force any of it on us.

Me? I've had everyt fucking vaccine known to mankind - but it's my choice.
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Odd, but I've never encountered a business that demanded to see my vaccination record.
 












Man For All Seasons said:
Pro-life and other socially conservative positions are winners in presidential politics...
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Uh, careful bud, that's not completely accurate. Gallup poll shows that 27% of Republican voters are Pro-Choice, and only 68% Pro Life. The numbers are almost exactly reversed for Democrats.

Republicans desperately need those votes in order to oust Obama. So go ahead and keep pushing your views on abortion. President OBlahBlah will send you an invitation to his second inaugurial.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147941/republicans-unified-democrats-abortion.aspx
 






Bubble Burster said:
Uh, careful bud, that's not completely accurate. Gallup poll shows that 27% of Republican voters are Pro-Choice, and only 68% Pro Life. The numbers are almost exactly reversed for Democrats.

Republicans desperately need those votes in order to oust Obama. So go ahead and keep pushing your views on abortion. President OBlahBlah will send you an invitation to his second inaugurial.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147941/republicans-unified-democrats-abortion.aspx
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What this man doesn't realize is 1) not all pro-lifers are Christian and 2) many Christians are pro-choice. This is an emotional issue that is based mostly on when someone believes life begins. When I was first in this business years ago selling birth control pills, Catholic doctors would not prescribe them saying that both the egg and the spermatazoa are living entities that either met (and fused) by God's will or did not (and died) by God's will and by God's will alone. Any form of birth control other than abstinence was viewed as interference with those living entities and therefore murder. Those who practiced birth control countered that those 2 things (agg & sperm) are preceptors or building blocks necessary for life but not life itself. This is now accepted by most people.

Now the pro-choice argument is that a fetus is a preceptor of life but not life itself - until borne and having taken that first breath of air. This takes the word murder out of the equation and this attitiude is now set to prevail in the next few years. Therefore, the argument will rage on but it would be very foolish for any presidential candidate to sign any right to life pledge or anything like that. Doing so is like committing Hari Kari.
 


















Major Wood said:
What this man doesn't realize is 1) not all pro-lifers are Christian and 2) many Christians are pro-choice. This is an emotional issue that is based mostly on when someone believes life begins. When I was first in this business years ago selling birth control pills, Catholic doctors would not prescribe them saying that both the egg and the spermatazoa are living entities that either met (and fused) by God's will or did not (and died) by God's will and by God's will alone. Any form of birth control other than abstinence was viewed as interference with those living entities and therefore murder. Those who practiced birth control countered that those 2 things (agg & sperm) are preceptors or building blocks necessary for life but not life itself. This is now accepted by most people.

Now the pro-choice argument is that a fetus is a preceptor of life but not life itself - until borne and having taken that first breath of air. This takes the word murder out of the equation and this attitiude is now set to prevail in the next few years. Therefore, the argument will rage on but it would be very foolish for any presidential candidate to sign any right to life pledge or anything like that. Doing so is like committing Hari Kari.
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Are you this ignorant of basic biology? Life begins at conception. It is alive. It is human. It is a distinct individual. End of story.
 






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