PIP Advice

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Re: Additional Advice

I've posted ad nauseam that Reps or anyone wanting to get out of the industry should apply for allied health professions. I'm a PA and once held a sort of pharma job. I liked my work but not into the political game. Suffice to say - I moved on. All careers have their trying moments but I'm satisfied with my work. The practice I work in respects me as do my patients. I feel the same way about my employer and patients. I make more money now then I did at my pharma like job. Money in the end really means nothing unless you can enjoy your life. Good luck.
 








Anonymous said:
Thanks for posting.

It truly is a terrible industry. And its hard to get away from it after doing it for ten years plus and developing the ability to be a top rep in the nation, working 20-30 hours a week.

I think I am young enough to start over, but it is going to take some pain for about 3 years, starting over.

What else would you suggest, besides biotech? food sales? anything?

Thanks!
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The problem with sales right now is that the pharmaceutical industry is not the only field that has suffered from the recession. Sales is quickly becoming a contract type of profession. With companies expanding and then contracting, the trend for hiring temporary sales people is growing. it is easier when it comes down to contracting. There is no safety in the size of a company because they all "downsize, right size, streamline" at one time or another. Food sales is just as volatile. I think if I was 30 years younger, I would go into something where I controlled my success or failure (selling houses or commercial property, small business that I researched and found a need, etc). I have a friend that made 200,000 dollars last year redoing furniture from piecews he bought for nothing at garage sales. If I am going down with the ship, I at least want to be driving. The other is going back to school and gain those skills needed to go into another industry
(but that takes money, time, and the ability to stay afloat during this period). Good Luck. Your situation is not different than thousands have right now.
 








Anonymous said:
The problem with sales right now is that the pharmaceutical industry is not the only field that has suffered from the recession. Sales is quickly becoming a contract type of profession. With companies expanding and then contracting, the trend for hiring temporary sales people is growing. it is easier when it comes down to contracting. There is no safety in the size of a company because they all "downsize, right size, streamline" at one time or another. Food sales is just as volatile. I think if I was 30 years younger, I would go into something where I controlled my success or failure (selling houses or commercial property, small business that I researched and found a need, etc). I have a friend that made 200,000 dollars last year redoing furniture from piecews he bought for nothing at garage sales. If I am going down with the ship, I at least want to be driving. The other is going back to school and gain those skills needed to go into another industry
(but that takes money, time, and the ability to stay afloat during this period). Good Luck. Your situation is not different than thousands have right now.
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Wow, great post.
Your buddy seems like a smart and talented man. There are always opportunities to make money, you just have to keep your eyes open to market conditions, as you suggested, and work hard.

As for professional selling, it is not what it used to be, you have that right. No longer is it about being street smart or getting rewarded for your productivity. Sales has become an office job, just like state jobs or other mindless endeavors.

My advice is to NOT go to college, unless you are prepared to become a dentist or nurse or something in very high demand.

Instead, consider vo-tech type jobs. Its funny, when I was in high school, over 20 years ago, college was pushed so much. But, now the vo-tech students are the ones with the upper hand, because they can make money immediately after high school and they don't have the student loans.

People that say college is more about getting a good job are losers. That is the only purpose of college, to get a good job. The socailizing and other nonsense can happen anywhere.

Another thought about selling today: it is not a good job when you are forced to do it in a corporate environment, because the corporations love to micromanage today, and create insecurity in their structure with threats of losing your job all the time.

Personally, I have had enough of the selling world. I was good at it because I am a natural competitor and have very good interpersonal skills. But, more and more, I am not being valued in this environment, because I like to question management (never a good move).

So, I am going back to school to get my MBA, in operations management or supply chain management. These are two growing fields in demand, and I need the degree to jump start things.

Last thing, I remember when I was considering a sales career 15 years ago, and a top rep in the food industry told me to "screw sales" (he used another term), because of all the phoney crap that he had to endure.

Its a process for all of us, and sales does pay good, but he was right.
 








Anonymous said:
great post...so true...my friends outside of pharma can't fathom how someone like me, (award-winning, polished, professional account executive-(I was in managment at one point too) can end up in his 50s, unemployed, uninsured, unemployable, and basically blacklisted because I spent 24 years in this insane industry. (Of course, it was a great industry when I joined in the 80s.)
Pharma is a sick, twisted, and bizarre industry...How I rue the day I ever joined the industry and wasted so many valuable years.
Good luck and thanks again for your wonderful post.
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Wow, justnsawnthismthread, you just defined my life to a T.
OP if you are still here, Here's what I have observed:
1. Anyone in your company, who is not now in the field, can not grasp what sales reps lives are about. They don't get the daily negativity/rejection of sales (they say it must be tough to do but they don't understand), so they don't understand the free car, high bonuses, promotions, trips, etc. They work in a bureaucracy, with cubicles. Dilbert's, nice people, but office people.
2. Managers don't always make decisions on PIP's, it comes from above.
You cost them too much over time; higher salary, big bonus, etc., multiple charges to insurance plan (kids, spouse). New reps cost far less. White males are costly.
3. You think you're good but rookies can get the business after about a year, too, and for far less $, true or not. They can get a lot of business with contract reps and they can have 2 of them for your cost, 5 for the cost of a DM.
4. You've got the awards, but HQ still think its 50% them and luck, plus their hard work; they get you the great plan coverage; anyone can sell doctors-they aren't business smart, they'll buy anything if they have free samples/lunches/dinners/speaking fees, etc. Advertising brings in a lot of business, ie, Claritin, Nexium, Vaniqua, etc.
5. Now, most Doctors often have to suggest/prescribe something or they could be sued for failure to treat. Truth is, it's not rocket science, I have convinced docs to write without the science and convinced some with weak pooled-data or the n=30 pt. study data 5 that the company gave us to make our me-too look like it was better (love that evidence-based medicine argument too) remember, rookies believe all that stuff in training and yet experienced
6. Did you know that the line is, "He or she has had multiple awards, it must be due to the territory, coverage, etc.? Let's hire someone cheaper.
7. What manager is valuable? I know, I am one of the highest ranked at my company and was dumped and have seen tons of great ones cut.

Is there any other industry that sells to people that don't buy anything?
Think Lobbyists and Congress.
Client needs RX, doctor gives free samples to try, it works and patient pays only a portion of the cost(premiums and copay) and their company pays the rest.
Any of you had a serious life threatening illness in your family? Final bill of $200-$300k?
What were you paying in premiums? You are expensive. You really think the dirty scum at BCBS doesn't alert employer to costly claims, by Region/state. People knew about the surgery your child had to save their life.
It all adds up, you cost too much and they think you can be replaced for less with a brand new employee who "loves helping people and saving lives".
"do not think so highly of yourselves", it's a business, to make $$$$$.
 








First, it is not correct that “at will” employees can be terminated for “any” reason. While most people, lawyers and judges seem to believe that, it is a very incorrect statement. What is true is that “at will” employees can be terminated for “any proper” reason. So, employers cannot terminate employees for improper reasons, such as discrimination, retaliation, harassment, because they will not engage in improper or illegal behavior, and/or many other “improper” reasons.

Second, employers are not required to pay severance when someone is terminated, but when severance is paid, it is not due to any “requirement.” Rather, severance is paid to reduce risks, including risks that employees will claim they were fired for “improper” reasons.

Performance Improvement Plans are almost always instituted (a) to create a seemingly “proper” reason (and paper trail) to fire someone (b) in order to deny them severance, and possibly even unemployment benefits.

By instituting Performance Improvement Plans (or “PIP’s”), employers (i) humiliate, (ii) infuriate, and (iii) intimidate employees. Then, as a direct result:

• Often after a PIP, an employee will quit in disgust; presto: no severance and even no unemployment benefits, and the employer does not have to explain to anyone why they wanted the employee to leave.
• Often after a PIP, an employee will feel intimidated, and simply accept his or her termination; presto: no employee request or expectation of severance, and the employee will be too intimidated to ask for a reason for his or her being singled out.
• Often, after a PIP, an employee will feel infuriated, and either shout or engage in some other bad conduct; presto: they are then fired for “cause” and given no severance and not entitled to unemployment benefits.
• Often after a PIP, HR will say to an employee, “You know, your resume would look so much better if you resigned, than were fired; we will ‘let you’ resign, as a favor.” Presto: no severance, no unemployment benefits, and the employer does not have to give a reason for pushing the employee out.
• Often, after a PIP, HR will say to an employee: “If you resign, in the future you may come back and work for this company. But if you are fired for performance reasons, you can never come back.” Presto: the employee quits, without request or expectation of severance, and is even denied unemployment benefits.
• Often, after a PIP, HR will say to an employee, “If you resign we can give you a neutral reference, and maybe we will even not contest your application for unemployment.” Presto: no severance, and no need to provide a reason for wanting an employee to leave.

So, many times PIP’s are used to hide improper reasons for wanting an employee to leave, when the real reason is improper. Also, using PIP’s helps employers reduce severance costs, and even lowers their unemployment insurance premiums, which are based on how many of their employees collect unemployment benefits.

While some Performance Improvement Plans are honest and in good faith, such good faith use of PIP’s is quite rare. Most are false and fraudulent, and so very upsetting. I believe it is the humiliating, the infuriating and the intimidating effects of the vast majority of Performance Improvement Plans that are the source of their power for employers, and the essence of their evil.
 








I was put on a PIP two years ago despite having the highest numbers in the district. Nobody even bothered to deny it was because of my age or how much the company could save hiring some teenager willing to accept a third of what reps in my salary band were paid. Ultimately, I worked my ass off and documented every interaction with the d-bag DM. What really saved me was an HR person who actually did her job and investigated everything and forced the DM and RD to rescind the PIP. Didn't get a raise that year, but at that point I really didn't care. Whatever ticked off the HR woman really made a difference, because both the DM and RD were gone within three months. I have no idea, but I kept my job for another year until I found a much better job with a small device company. I knew they were taking a chance hiring a pharma rep, but I made the top five this year and my territory is #1 in the region.

It makes me sick to think of how much time I wasted on that damned company, only to be treated like garbage when some a$$h0!e in accounting thought I cost too much. I still keep in touch with the HR lady because she was the only one who was ever really decent. If I ever see those d-bag managers or their VP (he was canned a month after they were), they had better hope they can cross the street faster than I can step on the gas pedal.
 








Anonymous said:
I was put on a PIP two years ago despite having the highest numbers in the district. Nobody even bothered to deny it was because of my age or how much the company could save hiring some teenager willing to accept a third of what reps in my salary band were paid. Ultimately, I worked my ass off and documented every interaction with the d-bag DM. What really saved me was an HR person who actually did her job and investigated everything and forced the DM and RD to rescind the PIP. Didn't get a raise that year, but at that point I really didn't care. Whatever ticked off the HR woman really made a difference, because both the DM and RD were gone within three months. I have no idea, but I kept my job for another year until I found a much better job with a small device company. I knew they were taking a chance hiring a pharma rep, but I made the top five this year and my territory is #1 in the region.

It makes me sick to think of how much time I wasted on that damned company, only to be treated like garbage when some a$$h0!e in accounting thought I cost too much. I still keep in touch with the HR lady because she was the only one who was ever really decent. If I ever see those d-bag managers or their VP (he was canned a month after they were), they had better hope they can cross the street faster than I can step on the gas pedal.
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you might want to stop taking mind altering drugs or drinking alcohol.
grow up and stop lying on here.
 
















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