PIP Advice

[Anonymous]

CP Soothsayer--thank you for your advice. i would not be courageous enough to post here with anything but "Anonymous". mostly because what I shared was so personal and so confidential.

I read Cafe Pharma ahead of my posting and I saw the 'quality'. Even so, I needed help so badly and so quickly with a situation impacting my and my family's life that I decided...what the heck.

Because of the overall genuinely wonderful advice I've received, I've come to realize that, like anything, you take what you want and leave the rest. I must repeat how much I've appreciated what every single 'poster' (right word?) has said in reply to my questions. It has meant so much to me.

As a I worked at Company XXX over the years I helped alot of people that had nothing to do with meeting my goals. Many times I was asked, 'why are you taking the time to do this?' My answer? I've always known the right people and second, it feels so good to help a winner.

You can probably read into this 'what happened'. I'm too sad to explain the details even though you all have been so kind with your advice. but my offer remains. I will continue to visit this site--taking a brief break--and whoever needs my help I will offer it. I promise to keep the positive mentoring and the surprising help you brought to me alive.

 

[Anonymous]

If and when the OP is told that she is being let go, she should demand a severance package. HR and legal departments are usually nervous when you terminate someone that falls into a "protected" category (age, woman, minority). At our company, this person would definitely be getting a package.

 

[Anonymous]

If and when the OP is told that she is being let go, she should demand a severance package. HR and legal departments are usually nervous when you terminate someone that falls into a "protected" category (age, woman, minority). At our company, this person would definitely be getting a package.

At Merck, HR doesn't give a hoot if someone is protected by age, gender etc...

they will push your ass out anyway...almost impossible to win a law suit against a company like Merck unless you have endless money (and time) to fight them...

when you get a PIP at Merck, your best move is to quit...not sure if the other big pharmas are the same, but I assume they are close.

 

[Anonymous]

At Merck, HR doesn't give a hoot if someone is protected by age, gender etc...

they will push your ass out anyway...almost impossible to win a law suit against a company like Merck unless you have endless money (and time) to fight them...

when you get a PIP at Merck, your best move is to quit...not sure if the other big pharmas are the same, but I assume they are close.

exactly correct. get out while you can.

if you really think about, the ONLY people working at places like Merck, have no soul, especially the sales team.

I will give the others a pass.

 

[Anonymous]

At Merck, HR doesn't give a hoot if someone is protected by age, gender etc...

they will push your ass out anyway...almost impossible to win a law suit against a company like Merck unless you have endless money (and time) to fight them...

when you get a PIP at Merck, your best move is to quit...not sure if the other big pharmas are the same, but I assume they are close.

Never quit without talking to an employment attorney or you most likely WILL lose any unemployment benefits. Let them fire you. It is degrading but even Merck won't do anything (unless you did something illegal) to stop you from collecting UE. It is possible to negotiate a severance package even on a PIP. It is not possible for a company to take your pension unless they simply stop the pension plan for everyone. Never quit unless you have signed a contract for another job and passed the new employment requirements.

If I was an SP employee and never signed the "Merck vacation" policy, can they really keep my vacation time once I quit Merck. SP gave their employees the vacation it was not earned a day at a time over the course of a year. I am gone but refused to sign anything on my way out or Merck. They kept my four weeks vacation. I am pissed. Thoughts? Can this be handled without an attorney?

 

[Anonymous]

Never quit without talking to an employment attorney or you most likely WILL lose any unemployment benefits. Let them fire you. It is degrading but even Merck won't do anything (unless you did something illegal) to stop you from collecting UE. It is possible to negotiate a severance package even on a PIP. It is not possible for a company to take your pension unless they simply stop the pension plan for everyone. Never quit unless you have signed a contract for another job and passed the new employment requirements.

If I was an SP employee and never signed the "Merck vacation" policy, can they really keep my vacation time once I quit Merck. SP gave their employees the vacation it was not earned a day at a time over the course of a year. I am gone but refused to sign anything on my way out or Merck. They kept my four weeks vacation. I am pissed. Thoughts? Can this be handled without an attorney?

that sucks that they ripped your off on your vacation..Feel lucky that they didn't jack you even worse...

You tell people to never quit the job? What about if the job is making you sick? What do you do when you can't take another day of it and hit a wall with it? what then?

 

[Anonymous]

that sucks that they ripped your off on your vacation..Feel lucky that they didn't jack you even worse...

You tell people to never quit the job? What about if the job is making you sick? What do you do when you can't take another day of it and hit a wall with it? what then?

Take a leave of absence or something. Make something up. Whatever.

You never just quit, as you forefit unemployment and set yourself up for gaps in your resume that can be a pain to explain if you want to stick with a corporate idiot job.

We have probably all been there, with managers that are crazy and have no soul, but we have to beat them at there own game.

I mean, call in sick for field rides. Just do what you have to do.

Personally, I would just take the crap and humble myself and just tote the line.

"They" are just not going to ever get me to quit. I am too tough for that! And all of you should be too!

 

[Anonymous]

Take a leave of absence or something. Make something up. Whatever.

You never just quit, as you forefit unemployment and set yourself up for gaps in your resume that can be a pain to explain if you want to stick with a corporate idiot job.

We have probably all been there, with managers that are crazy and have no soul, but we have to beat them at there own game.

I mean, call in sick for field rides. Just do what you have to do.

Personally, I would just take the crap and humble myself and just tote the line.

"They" are just not going to ever get me to quit. I am too tough for that! And all of you should be too!

you sound like a youngster...glad you are so bulletproof...

but you don't get it...Sometimes a job like Merck, makes you physically sick...emotionally sick...

when your body kicks into survival mode and tells you to get as far away from the "threat ie. Merck) as possible, and as fast as possible...

see how easy it is to not quit when you are in your 50s and in danger of having a nervous breakdown...

you really think sticking it out at Merck is really worth that??

 

[Anonymous]

you sound like a youngster...glad you are so bulletproof...

but you don't get it...Sometimes a job like Merck, makes you physically sick...emotionally sick...

when your body kicks into survival mode and tells you to get as far away from the "threat ie. Merck) as possible, and as fast as possible...

see how easy it is to not quit when you are in your 50s and in danger of having a nervous breakdown...

you really think sticking it out at Merck is really worth that??

Alright - I don't have a dog in this fight. If ANY JOB is making you both emotionally and physically ill than you have to weigh your options. For individuals with a family, and one spouse that doesn't work or is unemployed they are in a difficult position. This individual is the sole breadwinner for the kids and the spouse. Every person has different life situations.

IMHO, the first step is to see a practitioner to deal with the emotional turmoil and another practitioner to help with physical illnesses. A lot of time the two are tied together. When you are experiencing emotional illness it can lead to a myriad of medical problems. Often times drops in serotonin levels can cause anxiety, depression, fatigue (insomnia) and the list goes on and on.

Exercise can increase serotonin levels but you have to walk/jog/ride (local gyms have stair climbers (awesome workout)) your bike for at least a half hour. You have to Sweat and feel uncomfortable - you can work up to it. A stroll around the block is not going to help. There are medications (SSRIs, etc. - too many to name) that can increase serotonin but those can also cause other "issues". Added benefit to exercise is that you regain focus and lose weight without starving yourself.

Only you know your situation and what is best for you. I wish you good health!

 

[Anonymous]

you sound like a youngster...glad you are so bulletproof...

but you don't get it...Sometimes a job like Merck, makes you physically sick...emotionally sick...

when your body kicks into survival mode and tells you to get as far away from the "threat ie. Merck) as possible, and as fast as possible...

see how easy it is to not quit when you are in your 50s and in danger of having a nervous breakdown...

you really think sticking it out at Merck is really worth that??

Yes, its worth it. You need money to get by in life, and to let others that are human and weak like all of us take advantage of your ability to work and provide, is stupid.

By the time you get into your 30s, you should have developed thick skin, and not let a job determine your self worth or anything for that matter.

Just do your job and let the chips fall. If they want to fire you, they better have a good reason. And even if they do fire you, you can sue if it was not justifed.

Also, worst case scenario, you get unemployment.

It amazes me how many people in this world want the easy way out. What a terrible way to live, never challenging yourself...

worse, letting other people determine your future.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, its worth it. You need money to get by in life, and to let others that are human and weak like all of us take advantage of your ability to work and provide, is stupid.

By the time you get into your 30s, you should have developed thick skin, and not let a job determine your self worth or anything for that matter.

Just do your job and let the chips fall. If they want to fire you, they better have a good reason. And even if they do fire you, you can sue if it was not justifed.

Also, worst case scenario, you get unemployment.

It amazes me how many people in this world want the easy way out. What a terrible way to live, never challenging yourself...

worse, letting other people determine your future.

Even if they fire you you can sue??? Are you serious?? You have obviously never tried to sue a huge multi-national big pharma company...Do you have the tens of thousands of dollars, and several years it will take to even try and get your case to a jury or mediator??

You are dreaming...you also have never been the target of a pharma manager trying to push you out...(They have all the power and you have NONE!!)

Holding on to a dumb drug rep job just because you are supposed to have a "thick skin" is alot dumber than just moving on to another way to make a living...

You say just do your job and let the chips fall...What job?? What exactly is the pharma rep supposed to do these days...Just keep catering in lunch and hope you get your stupid signature on your computer for samples?

You are really lame...Enjoy your dumb pharma job until you get pushed out too, and see how far your "thick skin" that you have developed gets you...

 

[Anonymous]

Alright - I don't have a dog in this fight. If ANY JOB is making you both emotionally and physically ill than you have to weigh your options. For individuals with a family, and one spouse that doesn't work or is unemployed they are in a difficult position. This individual is the sole breadwinner for the kids and the spouse. Every person has different life situations.

IMHO, the first step is to see a practitioner to deal with the emotional turmoil and another practitioner to help with physical illnesses. A lot of time the two are tied together. When you are experiencing emotional illness it can lead to a myriad of medical problems. Often times drops in serotonin levels can cause anxiety, depression, fatigue (insomnia) and the list goes on and on.

Exercise can increase serotonin levels but you have to walk/jog/ride (local gyms have stair climbers (awesome workout)) your bike for at least a half hour. You have to Sweat and feel uncomfortable - you can work up to it. A stroll around the block is not going to help. There are medications (SSRIs, etc. - too many to name) that can increase serotonin but those can also cause other "issues". Added benefit to exercise is that you regain focus and lose weight without starving yourself.

Only you know your situation and what is best for you. I wish you good health!

great advice!!! you definitely "Get It" and yes, exercise is the very best (and healthiest) way to deal with anxiety, depression etc...

those working in pharma today, have to be able to trick their mind into thinking they are doing something worthwhile and good for patients...

The reality is, pharma is a very sick and dishonest industry run by sociopaths with little or no conscious...

I could no longer be a part of it, knowing what I know...

 

[Anonymous]

great advice!!! you definitely "Get It" and yes, exercise is the very best (and healthiest) way to deal with anxiety, depression etc...

those working in pharma today, have to be able to trick their mind into thinking they are doing something worthwhile and good for patients...

The reality is, pharma is a very sick and dishonest industry run by sociopaths with little or no conscious...

I could no longer be a part of it, knowing what I know...

It started changing in the early 2000s, when cheerleaders were hired over experienced sales people and people with technical backgrounds.

 

[Anonymous]

It started changing in the early 2000s, when cheerleaders were hired over experienced sales people and people with technical backgrounds.

It actually started changing earlier than that. When we started taking orders for lunches, asking what ther staff would like to eat, listening to complaints about having mexican food yesterday, etc, etc, etc, we crossed over from professional to caterers and service reps that dropped samples. In the 70's and early 80's physicians would enjoy having you back in their office for 10-15 minutes once every 5-6 weeks. When the mega-companies thought they would have 6-10 reps coming into a physician's office, that changed the environment completely. The downsizing tells me that the industry would like to go back in time, but now, the changes have been too drastic to be able to return. It's too bad. This was a great industry and now it is filled with whiners and people who have no stake in the products and companies they represent.

A PIP may not be the worse thing to happen to you. I spent 35 years with one company (a rarity to day) and ended as a regional director. I was well paid and enjoyed all but the final 3-4 years. I think I would not go into the business if I was 25 years old again. there is no relationship buidling or longevity in the industry today. If I did, it would be to gain as couple of years experience and then go into the biotech end.

 

[Anonymous]

It actually started changing earlier than that. When we started taking orders for lunches, asking what ther staff would like to eat, listening to complaints about having mexican food yesterday, etc, etc, etc, we crossed over from professional to caterers and service reps that dropped samples. In the 70's and early 80's physicians would enjoy having you back in their office for 10-15 minutes once every 5-6 weeks. When the mega-companies thought they would have 6-10 reps coming into a physician's office, that changed the environment completely. The downsizing tells me that the industry would like to go back in time, but now, the changes have been too drastic to be able to return. It's too bad. This was a great industry and now it is filled with whiners and people who have no stake in the products and companies they represent.

A PIP may not be the worse thing to happen to you. I spent 35 years with one company (a rarity to day) and ended as a regional director. I was well paid and enjoyed all but the final 3-4 years. I think I would not go into the business if I was 25 years old again. there is no relationship buidling or longevity in the industry today. If I did, it would be to gain as couple of years experience and then go into the biotech end.

Thanks for posting.

It truly is a terrible industry. And its hard to get away from it after doing it for ten years plus and developing the ability to be a top rep in the nation, working 20-30 hours a week.

I think I am young enough to start over, but it is going to take some pain for about 3 years, starting over.

What else would you suggest, besides biotech? food sales? anything?

Thanks!

 

[Anonymous]

I am always amazed when I see posts from people who have spent many wasted years in pharma now complain about starting over in another industry.

Cry me a river.

You work "20-30" hours a week in a job that pays a 6 figure salary and as a result, you've become complacent, depressed, lacking confidence, and unappreciated at every level and you now realize you have to swim in the deep water with the rest of us who work 60 hours a week to make the same money you use too.

The real world will eat most of you people alive. Get use to it.

 

[Anonymous]

I am always amazed when I see posts from people who have spent many wasted years in pharma now complain about starting over in another industry.

Cry me a river.

You work "20-30" hours a week in a job that pays a 6 figure salary and as a result, you've become complacent, depressed, lacking confidence, and unappreciated at every level and you now realize you have to swim in the deep water with the rest of us who work 60 hours a week to make the same money you use too.

The real world will eat most of you people alive. Get use to it.

'

hey knucklehead, some of us actually do work full days in pharma. just because you are lazy, it doesn't mean the rest of us are.

 

[Anonymous]

hey knucklehead, some of us actually do work full days in pharma. just because you are lazy, it doesn't mean the rest of us are.

It's not that we're lazy... we have nothing to do to fill the day. Too few real targets, too many counterparts. I overlap with so many counterparts and we're all selling the same drugs. I have lost so many of my business skills in this industry it's pathetic. I cruise around visiting the same people and when it becomes embarrassing that I'm in there too often, I make a drive-by call. The industry breeds complacency. I'm actually looking forward to the day I have a job I'm interested in and passionate about. Until then, I'm saving money and maxing 401K because I don't think I'll make this much money.

 

[Anonymous]

It's not that we're lazy... we have nothing to do to fill the day. Too few real targets, too many counterparts. I overlap with so many counterparts and we're all selling the same drugs. I have lost so many of my business skills in this industry it's pathetic. I cruise around visiting the same people and when it becomes embarrassing that I'm in there too often, I make a drive-by call. The industry breeds complacency. I'm actually looking forward to the day I have a job I'm interested in and passionate about. Until then, I'm saving money and maxing 401K because I don't think I'll make this much money.

Here is the thing I think you forget (and I do too): 99 percent of jobs are like this!

For example, do you really think that all professional athletes are happy about their job? Well, you would think that they love it, getting paid in the top 1 percent of the world, for playing a game?

Well, that is not the case for many players. The same applies in almost any job. Even people that have their own business, have so many headaches.

Its really all just a game, a game that I have learned to play by just going out and being patient with the process of having to show up for work, and learning to grow as a person.

Money is not real anyway. Its all BS. Its all a scam to get us to not have joy in life.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I know that but I am so bored I could rip my hair out. I am realistic, however, and I've got myself a 3 year, now turning into 2 year plan. If I thought I'd do this until retirement, I'd kill myself. And I do appreciate the money and the flexibility - I don't take those for granted, in fact I'm using them to my benefit. Sundays are the worst - I dread starting this all again on Monday. I know one day I will not be able to get out of bed to do this, so I've got my timeline.