PIP Advice

[Anonymous]

I should know better as a long term employee of a fortune 500 Pharma company but no as I find myself as a Manager in a PIP for the first time in over 20 years with the same company. My results are stellar and I've managed countless teams and won Multiple Presidents Circles and other like awards.

Without admitting zero accountability I will have to honest and explain that I have been targeted likely due to my age (which is a big enough drag anyway!). This is a pissing match with my boss of several years who formally I had a wonderful relationship and in fact brought me into several of the companies I've worked worked for. Confused? Me too. But more so deeply crushed because after two incredibly difficult years of fighting this in which I have missed spending time with my boys (single Mom) I am now in the Final stage of this PIP.

My questions are these:
1) do I lose my pension if I am terminated as a result of this PIP?
2) can I claim unemployment benefits?
3) is there any deal I can strike for an extension of my benefits beyond the otherworldly expense of COBRA monthly payments?
4) is there a severance and if so what would that be?
5) if my PIP ends at the end of April say will they literally strip me of my car, laptop, printer , etc that moment (glad ther isn't a uniform I would hate to take a cab home wrapped in a paper towel from the rest room)? OR do they give you some kind of grace period to collect yourself? If so what is that range?
6) if, hypothetically I won Presidents Circle last year am I entitled to receive the bonus from an associated award as well as the payout that would occur from having attended the trip ( since I will not be going as a result of not being here anymore)...how about that big crystal statue?...love that stuff although the shells getting pretty full.

I guess that's all. I know I sound a little cocky and light about all this , but trust me I'm not. An hour in the parking lot sobbing after I got the news which contined after I got home pretty much defined my day. Which ended by my having to tell my older son who could tell some thing was wrong. And if you don't understand after hearing about all my success, imagine how I feel.

Thanks for the community and whatever you can do to help a friend in need.

 

[Anonymous]

It is rare to survive a PIP.

Your best advice is to plan your exit; if you have friends in HR it's worthwhile to find out if there is a possibility for some sort of severance, be it modest, it's still better than being fired.

Be sure that your severance agreement (find an employment lawyer) makes it clear what your employer will release to future employers (call it territory eliminated, whatever).

Pension benefits should be set but of course, it will not be as good as if you access them at retirement. Most companies have a higher pension rate (besides the additional earning years) for early retirees, mine reduces benefits by 5% each year before age 65 if you left before retirement; 4% a year if you retired.

You should be able to qualify for UI benefits; some states you may have to go through severance payments first; check on this.

The remainder of things are going to be up to negotiation. Some companies have a rule that you have to be employed at time of payment for bonuses, especially when a trip is involved. Certainly, they would not want a recently-released employee on an award trip, so a payment in lieu of going would be my position.

As you've learned, companies really don't give a rat's rear end about their people anymore. You can be dumped for the new model from Cheerleader U regardless of who you knew. Since I've been dumped by my older employer, they've gone through four or five reps. I've talked with at least a half dozen key customers that have dropped my former employer's product line, mostly because they never saw a rep.

Yeah, I sure was a pretty bad rep ...

 

[Anonymous]

I should know better as a long term employee of a fortune 500 Pharma company but no as I find myself as a Manager in a PIP for the first time in over 20 years with the same company. My results are stellar and I've managed countless teams and won Multiple Presidents Circles and other like awards.

Without admitting zero accountability I will have to honest and explain that I have been targeted likely due to my age (which is a big enough drag anyway!). This is a pissing match with my boss of several years who formally I had a wonderful relationship and in fact brought me into several of the companies I've worked worked for. Confused? Me too. But more so deeply crushed because after two incredibly difficult years of fighting this in which I have missed spending time with my boys (single Mom) I am now in the Final stage of this PIP.

My questions are these:
1) do I lose my pension if I am terminated as a result of this PIP?
2) can I claim unemployment benefits?
3) is there any deal I can strike for an extension of my benefits beyond the otherworldly expense of COBRA monthly payments?
4) is there a severance and if so what would that be?
5) if my PIP ends at the end of April say will they literally strip me of my car, laptop, printer , etc that moment (glad ther isn't a uniform I would hate to take a cab home wrapped in a paper towel from the rest room)? OR do they give you some kind of grace period to collect yourself? If so what is that range?
6) if, hypothetically I won Presidents Circle last year am I entitled to receive the bonus from an associated award as well as the payout that would occur from having attended the trip ( since I will not be going as a result of not being here anymore)...how about that big crystal statue?...love that stuff although the shells getting pretty full.

I guess that's all. I know I sound a little cocky and light about all this , but trust me I'm not. An hour in the parking lot sobbing after I got the news which contined after I got home pretty much defined my day. Which ended by my having to tell my older son who could tell some thing was wrong. And if you don't understand after hearing about all my success, imagine how I feel.

Thanks for the community and whatever you can do to help a friend in need.

I am sorry to read of your situation. Pharma truly makes me sick to my stomach...I've seen so many good people ousted b/c of age. It's one of the only industries I can think of where young, inexperienced dimwits are considered "superior", over the experienced. Next to sports and modeling, what other industries are NOTORIOUS for this kind of thing??
Disgusting.
That being said, the other poster gave you some good answers.
I was pipped out also (rep). I remember having at least a few days with the computer, car etc. before turning them in, but not long. I met with my manager and signed the paperwork re: severance etc. then drove my pos car back home and purchased a new car while it still looked like I had a job ( & had already purchased a personal laptop previously).
Personally, I wouldn't count on a company car with a new job...many don't have cars now, but allowances instead, and it WILL take you a while to find another job. There are lots of great deals on NEW cars right now, since much of the nice USED car inventory has been depleted with this economy (so nice used car prices are pretty premium).
Anyway, with severance and unemployment, hopefully it will be enough to cover everything until you get another job. I got a severance of about 4 mos (not great for 15 years of work, and damn good work!), then unemployment kicked in after the severance was out. Check your state's rules on this.
Again, I am so sorry for you, b/c it sounds as though you truly wanted to stay in pharma.
I didn't, so my ousting was actually welcome!
I do believe these things happen for a reason. You are supposed to go another direction now, and although it's hard, and WILL be hard, just know that there wasn't anything you could have done to stop the trajectory. You could have been PERFECT through your PIP, but still wouldn't have survived it.
Best of luck to you, and be well.

 

[Anonymous]

I should know better as a long term employee of a fortune 500 Pharma company but no as I find myself as a Manager in a PIP for the first time in over 20 years with the same company. My results are stellar and I've managed countless teams and won Multiple Presidents Circles and other like awards.

Without admitting zero accountability I will have to honest and explain that I have been targeted likely due to my age (which is a big enough drag anyway!). This is a pissing match with my boss of several years who formally I had a wonderful relationship and in fact brought me into several of the companies I've worked worked for. Confused? Me too. But more so deeply crushed because after two incredibly difficult years of fighting this in which I have missed spending time with my boys (single Mom) I am now in the Final stage of this PIP.

My questions are these:
1) do I lose my pension if I am terminated as a result of this PIP?
2) can I claim unemployment benefits?
3) is there any deal I can strike for an extension of my benefits beyond the otherworldly expense of COBRA monthly payments?
4) is there a severance and if so what would that be?
5) if my PIP ends at the end of April say will they literally strip me of my car, laptop, printer , etc that moment (glad ther isn't a uniform I would hate to take a cab home wrapped in a paper towel from the rest room)? OR do they give you some kind of grace period to collect yourself? If so what is that range?
6) if, hypothetically I won Presidents Circle last year am I entitled to receive the bonus from an associated award as well as the payout that would occur from having attended the trip ( since I will not be going as a result of not being here anymore)...how about that big crystal statue?...love that stuff although the shells getting pretty full.

I guess that's all. I know I sound a little cocky and light about all this , but trust me I'm not. An hour in the parking lot sobbing after I got the news which contined after I got home pretty much defined my day. Which ended by my having to tell my older son who could tell some thing was wrong. And if you don't understand after hearing about all my success, imagine how I feel.

Thanks for the community and whatever you can do to help a friend in need.

Sorry for your situation...It sucks...Pharma turned out to be a disasterous career choice for many of us...These companies figured out that they can get around employment laws by harassing older reps (and very rarely managers) by use of the PIP.

That said, good luck negotiating a better deal for your exit...Even if you somehow survived the initial PIP, you are basically toast and are better off leaving to start a new life...

One word of warning, and I am not trying to be a jerk here...but I am being totally serious and realistic based on what the corporate world outside of pharmaceuticals thinks about your chosen industry:

Be prepared to never work again, unless you create your own job, or buy a franchise...

Nobody wants to hire anyone from the pharma industry...I was forced out 3 years, ago, and still trying to get something decent, aside from dopey, commission only sales jobs or the insurance companies that will contact ex-pharma, trying to coax them into starting their own insurance storefront.

Good luck...life will be better away from the toxic charade of pharma...

FU PHARMA INDUSTRY!!

 

[Anonymous]

I should know better as a long term employee of a fortune 500 Pharma company but no as I find myself as a Manager in a PIP for the first time in over 20 years with the same company. My results are stellar and I've managed countless teams and won Multiple Presidents Circles and other like awards.

Without admitting zero accountability I will have to honest and explain that I have been targeted likely due to my age (which is a big enough drag anyway!). This is a pissing match with my boss of several years who formally I had a wonderful relationship and in fact brought me into several of the companies I've worked worked for. Confused? Me too. But more so deeply crushed because after two incredibly difficult years of fighting this in which I have missed spending time with my boys (single Mom) I am now in the Final stage of this PIP.

My questions are these:
1) do I lose my pension if I am terminated as a result of this PIP?
2) can I claim unemployment benefits?
3) is there any deal I can strike for an extension of my benefits beyond the otherworldly expense of COBRA monthly payments?
4) is there a severance and if so what would that be?
5) if my PIP ends at the end of April say will they literally strip me of my car, laptop, printer , etc that moment (glad ther isn't a uniform I would hate to take a cab home wrapped in a paper towel from the rest room)? OR do they give you some kind of grace period to collect yourself? If so what is that range?
6) if, hypothetically I won Presidents Circle last year am I entitled to receive the bonus from an associated award as well as the payout that would occur from having attended the trip ( since I will not be going as a result of not being here anymore)...how about that big crystal statue?...love that stuff although the shells getting pretty full.

I guess that's all. I know I sound a little cocky and light about all this , but trust me I'm not. An hour in the parking lot sobbing after I got the news which contined after I got home pretty much defined my day. Which ended by my having to tell my older son who could tell some thing was wrong. And if you don't understand after hearing about all my success, imagine how I feel.

Thanks for the community and whatever you can do to help a friend in need.

1. They can't take your pension
2. You do qualify for unemployment, if you don't quit
3. Not sure about a deal for benefits
4. Severance, not sure. Just don't quit
5/6. No idea

You are not leaving anything special in this industry, so get over it. You will find something if you are smart and are willing to work.

good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Expect to lose your company equipment (computer, car, etc.) quickly ... either at termination or soon after.

You do want to be sure you have downloaded any personal items on the computer and any itmes that could be helpful in a future job search (sales records, etc.) You might want to be sure you have deleted any personal items off that computer.

As for car, computer, stuff ... if you need to buy a car or other high-dollar item on credit, make the deal while you're still employed. But (using some of the Dave Ramsey-style advice), you need to conserve as much cash as you can. Maybe a two or three year old used car bought cheaply (either for cash or low payments) is better than a brand new SUV off the Lexus dealers' lot on an eight-year note. Don't burden yourself with a lot of new debt, because remember, you're gonna have to go back and actually buy auto insurance as well.

 

[Anonymous]

I should know better as a long term employee of a fortune 500 Pharma company but no as I find myself as a Manager in a PIP for the first time in over 20 years with the same company. My results are stellar and I've managed countless teams and won Multiple Presidents Circles and other like awards.

Without admitting zero accountability I will have to honest and explain that I have been targeted likely due to my age (which is a big enough drag anyway!). This is a pissing match with my boss of several years who formally I had a wonderful relationship and in fact brought me into several of the companies I've worked worked for. Confused? Me too. But more so deeply crushed because after two incredibly difficult years of fighting this in which I have missed spending time with my boys (single Mom) I am now in the Final stage of this PIP.

My questions are these:
1) do I lose my pension if I am terminated as a result of this PIP?
2) can I claim unemployment benefits?
3) is there any deal I can strike for an extension of my benefits beyond the otherworldly expense of COBRA monthly payments?
4) is there a severance and if so what would that be?
5) if my PIP ends at the end of April say will they literally strip me of my car, laptop, printer , etc that moment (glad ther isn't a uniform I would hate to take a cab home wrapped in a paper towel from the rest room)? OR do they give you some kind of grace period to collect yourself? If so what is that range?
6) if, hypothetically I won Presidents Circle last year am I entitled to receive the bonus from an associated award as well as the payout that would occur from having attended the trip ( since I will not be going as a result of not being here anymore)...how about that big crystal statue?...love that stuff although the shells getting pretty full.

I guess that's all. I know I sound a little cocky and light about all this , but trust me I'm not. An hour in the parking lot sobbing after I got the news which contined after I got home pretty much defined my day. Which ended by my having to tell my older son who could tell some thing was wrong. And if you don't understand after hearing about all my success, imagine how I feel.

Thanks for the community and whatever you can do to help a friend in need.

I survived 1 PIP only to be put on another 1 a year later. I had the 2nd highest sales the 1st month and then they waited 2 more weeks before letting me go with no explanation why. Love "at will" employment.....

To answer your questions...

1. Definitely won't lose your pension. Anything you are fully vested in you are entitled to and you have multiple options. I would take the lump sum and roll it over into an IRA because you could lose the pension if that company were ever go bankrupt. Better to get control of it now.

2. It is state dependent but I was able to. Where I live, the company would have to fight your request for benefits and prove that you willfully neglected your job duties. No company is going to do that, especially with how meager the benefits are. But check with your state.

3. You are stuck with COBRA. You have to be at the executive level to get any type of golden parachute. I'd look at getting your own private insurance instead of paying the ridiculous COBRA prices. I've made the mistake of using COBRA and wasting thousands of dollars when I could have got a private plan for almost 1/3 the price. Those plans aren't usually as good, but if you are relatively healthy, they are a better short term option.

4. Severance is the trickiest part of PIP's. To avoid any possible legal troubles, most companies will offer severance to shut you up and make you sign a document stating you can't sue them if you take the money. Since you're female, and have over 20 years with the company, they will DEFINITELY give you a package. You would easily be able to form a case of age/gender discrimination, especially with the multiple awards you've won. Expect to get 1-2 weeks of pay for each year of service. This may or may not include your average bonus as well.

5. You could definitely lose everything immediately on termination and I would expect it. If your boss asks you to meet him, it will be to terminate you. A friend of mine met his boss and then had to drive back to his house, pack up all of his stuff and another manager was with him and he drove the reps car away. He was left with no transportation. If you are in a more remote location, you might get a few days to pack everything up. I wouldn't count on it, though.

6. If you won President's Club last year, you have even more grounds for a discrimination lawsuit. As for getting the pay and trophy, I would definitely bring it up to HR during the phone call. It will depend on what your company policy is. Most companies say you must be employed on the pay date to get the check but it is company dependent. Personally, I've never been to an awards banquet where a President's Club winner wasn't able to receive their award due to termination. You must be in a very odd situation.

How much time did they give you to "shape up"? What parameters are they looking for? Were you behind on paperwork deadlines or is it your district's sales performance??

 

[Anonymous]

It is rare to survive a PIP.

Your best advice is to plan your exit; if you have friends in HR it's worthwhile to find out if there is a possibility for some sort of severance, be it modest, it's still better than being fired.

Be sure that your severance agreement (find an employment lawyer) makes it clear what your employer will release to future employers (call it territory eliminated, whatever).

Pension benefits should be set but of course, it will not be as good as if you access them at retirement. Most companies have a higher pension rate (besides the additional earning years) for early retirees, mine reduces benefits by 5% each year before age 65 if you left before retirement; 4% a year if you retired.

You should be able to qualify for UI benefits; some states you may have to go through severance payments first; check on this.

The remainder of things are going to be up to negotiation. Some companies have a rule that you have to be employed at time of payment for bonuses, especially when a trip is involved. Certainly, they would not want a recently-released employee on an award trip, so a payment in lieu of going would be my position.

As you've learned, companies really don't give a rat's rear end about their people anymore. You can be dumped for the new model from Cheerleader U regardless of who you knew. Since I've been dumped by my older employer, they've gone through four or five reps. I've talked with at least a half dozen key customers that have dropped my former employer's product line, mostly because they never saw a rep.

Yeah, I sure was a pretty bad rep ...

Like all of you incredibly kind people that responded Thank YOU. I am overwhelmed. I did this quote thing and I may have done it wrong because I don't use CF like you all do. My experience has been reading CF when my reps have questions that I suspect may have come from a rumor. No offense, but the responders are awfully mean spirited, rude and use bad language. I guess if they had some thing intelligent to say I wouldn't much care.

Bottom line, I just got myself a good long cry from all your alls kindness and so many responses and the length. You don't know me from anyone but you took the time, your precious time with your families to help me a stranger and I want to thank you so much. It's a lonely time and even though my sales results are great, my people development results are strong and to answer another poster, bless your heart...nope no paper work problems, I still feel like the biggest putz in the world.

What I have come to grasp is that this is a simple case of 'you are not welcome here anymore'. I have to be okay with this and move on. I hope everyone that resonded to me sees this post or response because last nigth i just kept scrolling and reading and It didnt compute. How could a company, my beloved company, be treating me like 20+ years of enviable management techniques disappeared overnight leaving in its wake a bumbling idiot while in the same moment a group of 'invisible' people silently came together and gave me a gift of unimaginable value?

More questions I don't have the answer to. Here's a promise. I will continue to visit this board and when someone like me comes up, I will do what all have done for me. Paying it Forward

 

[Anonymous]

I read posts like this and pharma never ceases to amaze me in how disgusting they are to their employees. Upper and senior management seems to be filled to the brim with the most unqualified and petty people.

It should not affect your pension as long as you start drawing at retirement age. You won't be adding into it but it'll be what it is now once you start collecting. Severance? No, doubtful. Being fired is better because then you can collect unemployment after severance runs out. Some of the other things should be negotiated (ie. healthcare). Don't forget that companies are nervous about firing and targeting older women because of potential lawsuits so you should have the ability to negotiate on some of these things. I'm in my early 40's and I plan to be out within 3 years because I've seen what they do to older women in this industry. And the most important thing is to not let it affect your health and your soul. As crazy as this sounds, just say fuck it all.

 

[Anonymous]

I read posts like this and pharma never ceases to amaze me in how disgusting they are to their employees. Upper and senior management seems to be filled to the brim with the most unqualified and petty people.

It should not affect your pension as long as you start drawing at retirement age. You won't be adding into it but it'll be what it is now once you start collecting. Severance? No, doubtful. Being fired is better because then you can collect unemployment after severance runs out. Some of the other things should be negotiated (ie. healthcare). Don't forget that companies are nervous about firing and targeting older women because of potential lawsuits so you should have the ability to negotiate on some of these things. I'm in my early 40's and I plan to be out within 3 years because I've seen what they do to older women in this industry. And the most important thing is to not let it affect your health and your soul. As crazy as this sounds, just say fuck it all.

Just to clarify, you suggest being fired is optimal due to being able to collect unemployment after the 'severance runs out'. However you also suggest that 'severance' in my case 'is doubtful'. Could you clarify? I'm having the 'discussion' next week and am building my presentation with options A, B, C. It would be helpful to understand your valuable remarks.

Also, I mentor several young women I promoted over the years. Fortunately, the majority have gone onto assignments in Med Surg where I began my long career. You are so smart to get out of pharma now when you are young and it hurts my heart to say it. Because you are right and such a bright young woman. Thank you again

 

[Anonymous]

The pharmaceutical business has become sterile and cold and you may be better off to be rid of it.

They cannot take your pension. You really have two choices:

(1) People can recover from a PIP's, but most of the time, they use what time is measured in this process to find another job. I am retired now, but I know I probably had 30-40 reps on PIP's over a 10-15 year period and 6-8 of them came off that program in good standing. Many quit before the period elapsed, some made no effort to meet the requirements, and some really tried to change some of their behavior. As a Regional Director, I also had 2-3 DM's in that predicament and more times then not, they recovered. I you make the effort to meet those need areas, make sure you document change. I would not assume the PIP is because of your age (I really do not know your personal circumstances). Go into this with an open mind and continue to ask where you are in this improvement plan.

(2) The other option is to use this time to network and find another position. If the goals are unreachable, then they may indeed be sending you a message. I'm sorry you are having to go through this. I went through it as a young representative and recovered. I later became a DM and then an RD. Sales are such an inexact science now with the smoothing of data and Walmart not reporting, along with the influence of MHC formularies, sales awatrds, and accomplishments are somewhat diluted.

Good Luck to you. I hate to see anyone reach a crossroad out of a negative situation.

 

[Anonymous]

The pharmaceutical business has become sterile and cold and you may be better off to be rid of it.

They cannot take your pension. You really have two choices:

(1) People can recover from a PIP's, but most of the time, they use what time is measured in this process to find another job. I am retired now, but I know I probably had 30-40 reps on PIP's over a 10-15 year period and 6-8 of them came off that program in good standing. Many quit before the period elapsed, some made no effort to meet the requirements, and some really tried to change some of their behavior. As a Regional Director, I also had 2-3 DM's in that predicament and more times then not, they recovered. I you make the effort to meet those need areas, make sure you document change. I would not assume the PIP is because of your age (I really do not know your personal circumstances). Go into this with an open mind and continue to ask where you are in this improvement plan.

(2) The other option is to use this time to network and find another position. If the goals are unreachable, then they may indeed be sending you a message. I'm sorry you are having to go through this. I went through it as a young representative and recovered. I later became a DM and then an RD. Sales are such an inexact science now with the smoothing of data and Walmart not reporting, along with the influence of MHC formularies, sales awatrds, and accomplishments are somewhat diluted.

Good Luck to you. I hate to see anyone reach a crossroad out of a negative situation.

As a former rep who was one of those who allowed themselves to be pipped out (made no effort; waiting and wanting to go)... I must say that the pharma industry is a special breed of garbage. I know of NO other industry that puts SO many people on "performance improvement plans". I am in my 40s, and know a lot of people, in just about every industry out there (like many of you). The big problem I had with pharma was that "sales" #s never really mattered much. If you weren't the type of sheep they wanted you to be, didn't "conform" enough, spoke your mind...I can go on and on.... then those were reasons enough to put you on a PIP. I know this for a fact. I personally was a high performing rep my entire career (of 14+yrs), and at the time I was pipped had probably the 2nd highest #s in my district and was almost ALWAYS on the leader boards (certainly always higher than the average rep, at the VERY least, over the course of my "career"--ha, that's a funny word). When I was let go, my territory was one of only 2 or 3 in the district that hit or went above goal. I believe mine came in at 113% --- but yeah, I was a rep not doing her job.
Really?
Prior to getting pipped, I made the highest bonus in the district (which was also one of the top in the country) , I was the most tenured rep in district, and I was one of the only ones who didn't leave the territory at 2:00 ish daily to pick up kids etc.
We didn't work in pods either, btw.
I had the pleasure (cough) of getting a new, young female manager shortly before my "departure", and I will guarantee I made more money than she did (with my bonuses).
With all due respect to the poster I'm responding to, the PIPs in pharma seemingly, often, have NOTHING to do with so-called "performance".
Sales are supposed to be sales. Yes, pharma is different and not "real" sales in a lot of ways, but when you are hired to be a "sales rep", for ANYBODY, then you anticipate that your ability to meet your goals consistently actually means something. Not so in pharma.
If you don't play the silly game LIKE they want you to play, or if you are not liked for some other reason (ie. you're not young enough), then you CAN and WILL be pipped.
Again, no other industry that I know of behaves this way. I have many friends in other sales jobs, and they are dumbfounded by the stories of silly pharma; how on earth can people who have great sales #s consistently, end up on PIPS??
My spouse is high level sales management in another industry, and always found what goes on in pharma to be simply laughable. If his mgrs/reps are getting their jobs done, GREAT; he leaves them alone to do their thing. They are all adults and treated like such. They are not required to all behave in the exact same manner, nor be up his ass, in order to keep their jobs.
Needless to say, he was thrilled when I decided to remove myself completely from the whacked-out world of pharma, and go into something else instead.
Sorry for the long story, but I am sure the OP is probably being very wronged, and obviously has had no problems with "performance". You don't go from, one day, knowing what you're doing and being good at it, to being a dumbass who doesn't know how to do their job, the very next day. BUT somehow, this is commonplace in pharma.
I hope for the OP a wonderful new career in something where she won't have to worry if she's going to be axed for, say, wearing an outdated nail polish color, or for maybe speaking her mind when she wants.
Pharma is an industry full of fools and puppets, and she is actually getting a blessing in disguise by being let go.
Oh, and OP--to answer your question to someone else, yes, being fired will get you severance and unemployment. That's what I got, anyway. I can't imagine that you wouldn't get severance...as part of the purpose is basically hush money, and after so many years of service, it's the very LEAST the assholes can do for you. And I had no problems getting unemployment with a so-called "firing".
Best of luck to you, my dear. You have a better life awaiting you.

 

[Anonymous]

As a former rep who was one of those who allowed themselves to be pipped out (made no effort; waiting and wanting to go)... I must say that the pharma industry is a special breed of garbage. I know of NO other industry that puts SO many people on "performance improvement plans". I am in my 40s, and know a lot of people, in just about every industry out there (like many of you). The big problem I had with pharma was that "sales" #s never really mattered much. If you weren't the type of sheep they wanted you to be, didn't "conform" enough, spoke your mind...I can go on and on.... then those were reasons enough to put you on a PIP. I know this for a fact. I personally was a high performing rep my entire career (of 14+yrs), and at the time I was pipped had probably the 2nd highest #s in my district and was almost ALWAYS on the leader boards (certainly always higher than the average rep, at the VERY least, over the course of my "career"--ha, that's a funny word). When I was let go, my territory was one of only 2 or 3 in the district that hit or went above goal. I believe mine came in at 113% --- but yeah, I was a rep not doing her job.
Really?
Prior to getting pipped, I made the highest bonus in the district (which was also one of the top in the country) , I was the most tenured rep in district, and I was one of the only ones who didn't leave the territory at 2:00 ish daily to pick up kids etc.
We didn't work in pods either, btw.
I had the pleasure (cough) of getting a new, young female manager shortly before my "departure", and I will guarantee I made more money than she did (with my bonuses).
With all due respect to the poster I'm responding to, the PIPs in pharma seemingly, often, have NOTHING to do with so-called "performance".
Sales are supposed to be sales. Yes, pharma is different and not "real" sales in a lot of ways, but when you are hired to be a "sales rep", for ANYBODY, then you anticipate that your ability to meet your goals consistently actually means something. Not so in pharma.
If you don't play the silly game LIKE they want you to play, or if you are not liked for some other reason (ie. you're not young enough), then you CAN and WILL be pipped.
Again, no other industry that I know of behaves this way. I have many friends in other sales jobs, and they are dumbfounded by the stories of silly pharma; how on earth can people who have great sales #s consistently, end up on PIPS??
My spouse is high level sales management in another industry, and always found what goes on in pharma to be simply laughable. If his mgrs/reps are getting their jobs done, GREAT; he leaves them alone to do their thing. They are all adults and treated like such. They are not required to all behave in the exact same manner, nor be up his ass, in order to keep their jobs.
Needless to say, he was thrilled when I decided to remove myself completely from the whacked-out world of pharma, and go into something else instead.
Sorry for the long story, but I am sure the OP is probably being very wronged, and obviously has had no problems with "performance". You don't go from, one day, knowing what you're doing and being good at it, to being a dumbass who doesn't know how to do their job, the very next day. BUT somehow, this is commonplace in pharma.
I hope for the OP a wonderful new career in something where she won't have to worry if she's going to be axed for, say, wearing an outdated nail polish color, or for maybe speaking her mind when she wants.
Pharma is an industry full of fools and puppets, and she is actually getting a blessing in disguise by being let go.
Oh, and OP--to answer your question to someone else, yes, being fired will get you severance and unemployment. That's what I got, anyway. I can't imagine that you wouldn't get severance...as part of the purpose is basically hush money, and after so many years of service, it's the very LEAST the assholes can do for you. And I had no problems getting unemployment with a so-called "firing".
Best of luck to you, my dear. You have a better life awaiting you.

great post...so true...my friends outside of pharma can't fathom how someone like me, (award-winning, polished, professional account executive-(I was in managment at one point too) can end up in his 50s, unemployed, uninsured, unemployable, and basically blacklisted because I spent 24 years in this insane industry. (Of course, it was a great industry when I joined in the 80s.)

Pharma is a sick, twisted, and bizarre industry...How I rue the day I ever joined the industry and wasted so many valuable years.

Good luck and thanks again for your wonderful post.

 

[Anonymous]

Regarding poster comment: Oh, and OP--to answer your question to someone else, yes, being fired will get you severance and unemployment. That's what I got, anyway. I can't imagine that you wouldn't get severance...as part of the purpose is basically hush money, and after so many years of service

What severance amount did you receive? The reason I ask is that I've heard some received two weeks for every year of service when terminated as result of PIP, the subject of our discussion. I've also heard one week for every year of service when terminated as result of PIP. Finally, I've heard, if terminated for a PIP you will get two weeks of severance -- period. As you can imagine for someone whose tenure is 20 years plus this difference substantial.

Again, the kind response and clarification of those from Reps to DMs to RBDs is and will be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think for "perfomance" issues you get severance. It could hurt their case if she were to pursue legal action. Unfortunately, I'd expect 2 weeks pay if fired but it allows you to collect unemployment immediately. 2 weeks pay for every year is usually reserved for large layoffs and laying off very high level management when they want them to retire early. And while it sucks right now, when it happens, view it as freedom to do something else. We all sell ourselves short thinking we can't do anything else or are unemployable after pharma. I have seen people get out of pharma and do very well and who are very happy. Just age proof your resume since there is certainly ageism out there.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think for "perfomance" issues you get severance. It could hurt their case if she were to pursue legal action. Unfortunately, I'd expect 2 weeks pay if fired but it allows you to collect unemployment immediately. 2 weeks pay for every year is usually reserved for large layoffs and laying off very high level management when they want them to retire early. And while it sucks right now, when it happens, view it as freedom to do something else. We all sell ourselves short thinking we can't do anything else or are unemployable after pharma. I have seen people get out of pharma and do very well and who are very happy. Just age proof your resume since there is certainly ageism out there.

great post...i like the optimism...i quite pharma because it was making me nuts...in my 50s and still haven't found a new path yet...but I will...

there is life after pharma...

 

[Anonymous]

As a former rep who was one of those who allowed themselves to be pipped out (made no effort; waiting and wanting to go)... I must say that the pharma industry is a special breed of garbage. I know of NO other industry that puts SO many people on "performance improvement plans". I am in my 40s, and know a lot of people, in just about every industry out there (like many of you). The big problem I had with pharma was that "sales" #s never really mattered much. If you weren't the type of sheep they wanted you to be, didn't "conform" enough, spoke your mind...I can go on and on.... then those were reasons enough to put you on a PIP. I know this for a fact. I personally was a high performing rep my entire career (of 14+yrs), and at the time I was pipped had probably the 2nd highest #s in my district and was almost ALWAYS on the leader boards (certainly always higher than the average rep, at the VERY least, over the course of my "career"--ha, that's a funny word). When I was let go, my territory was one of only 2 or 3 in the district that hit or went above goal. I believe mine came in at 113% --- but yeah, I was a rep not doing her job.
Really?
Prior to getting pipped, I made the highest bonus in the district (which was also one of the top in the country) , I was the most tenured rep in district, and I was one of the only ones who didn't leave the territory at 2:00 ish daily to pick up kids etc.
We didn't work in pods either, btw.
I had the pleasure (cough) of getting a new, young female manager shortly before my "departure", and I will guarantee I made more money than she did (with my bonuses).
With all due respect to the poster I'm responding to, the PIPs in pharma seemingly, often, have NOTHING to do with so-called "performance".
Sales are supposed to be sales. Yes, pharma is different and not "real" sales in a lot of ways, but when you are hired to be a "sales rep", for ANYBODY, then you anticipate that your ability to meet your goals consistently actually means something. Not so in pharma.
If you don't play the silly game LIKE they want you to play, or if you are not liked for some other reason (ie. you're not young enough), then you CAN and WILL be pipped.
Again, no other industry that I know of behaves this way. I have many friends in other sales jobs, and they are dumbfounded by the stories of silly pharma; how on earth can people who have great sales #s consistently, end up on PIPS??
My spouse is high level sales management in another industry, and always found what goes on in pharma to be simply laughable. If his mgrs/reps are getting their jobs done, GREAT; he leaves them alone to do their thing. They are all adults and treated like such. They are not required to all behave in the exact same manner, nor be up his ass, in order to keep their jobs.
Needless to say, he was thrilled when I decided to remove myself completely from the whacked-out world of pharma, and go into something else instead.
Sorry for the long story, but I am sure the OP is probably being very wronged, and obviously has had no problems with "performance". You don't go from, one day, knowing what you're doing and being good at it, to being a dumbass who doesn't know how to do their job, the very next day. BUT somehow, this is commonplace in pharma.
I hope for the OP a wonderful new career in something where she won't have to worry if she's going to be axed for, say, wearing an outdated nail polish color, or for maybe speaking her mind when she wants.
Pharma is an industry full of fools and puppets, and she is actually getting a blessing in disguise by being let go.
Oh, and OP--to answer your question to someone else, yes, being fired will get you severance and unemployment. That's what I got, anyway. I can't imagine that you wouldn't get severance...as part of the purpose is basically hush money, and after so many years of service, it's the very LEAST the assholes can do for you. And I had no problems getting unemployment with a so-called "firing".
Best of luck to you, my dear. You have a better life awaiting you.

I have been reading this website for over ten years, and this post is easily the best ever.

Way to lay it all out there.

Hopefully college graduates stumble upon this, and do not enter this terrible industry. When I started about 15 years ago, this was the job. I beat out about 30-40 students at my career center for this job, and I thought I was on my way.

Sure, pharma paid me well. But, 3 downsizings (despite great numbers) later, and getting the corporate treatment has really taken its toll on me.

Not complaining about it all, but this industry was a major mistake in my career path.

Thankfully, I am not the only one that feels this way!

Thanks again for your post, and good luck to you.

 

[Anonymous]

Regarding poster comment: Oh, and OP--to answer your question to someone else, yes, being fired will get you severance and unemployment. That's what I got, anyway. I can't imagine that you wouldn't get severance...as part of the purpose is basically hush money, and after so many years of service

What severance amount did you receive? The reason I ask is that I've heard some received two weeks for every year of service when terminated as result of PIP, the subject of our discussion. I've also heard one week for every year of service when terminated as result of PIP. Finally, I've heard, if terminated for a PIP you will get two weeks of severance -- period. As you can imagine for someone whose tenure is 20 years plus this difference substantial.

Again, the kind response and clarification of those from Reps to DMs to RBDs is and will be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

Hi--so sorry for the delay in responding! I hope you get this before your meeting/'negotiations'.
As a rep, I received just 1 week per year of service when let go through a PIP. I wonder if it's different for management in general? I seriously can't imagine you'd get just 2 weeks! If you did, that would be REALLY shitty on their part.
I hope you 'luck out' and get 2 weeks per.
Best of luck to you. I know you're scared, but it'll be ok. Lots and lots of people in the same boat.... so as bad as it is, at the very least you're not alone.

 

[CP Soothsayer]

I have been targeted likely due to my age..

If true..go see an attorney.

 

[Anonymous]

If true..go see an attorney.

Well CP Soothsayer or "T" now you are giving legal advice. Please spare us your rubbish and go back to the playground where you belong or the poli board. You couldn't match wits with any of the poli regulars anyways. Hint - I mean BB, or I mean ILA. LOL! Also, tell fucktard to stay on the PG - she is one class act or clown.