Yes I was. And the whole lunch thing was one of the most professionally degrading things I have ever done. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to pharma. I do howver understand why some can't leave.
Pharma Rep = Jehovah Witness
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Yes I was. And the whole lunch thing was one of the most professionally degrading things I have ever done. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to pharma. I do howver understand why some can't leave.
tinkrbelle
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- tinkrbelle Mar 26, 2011 at 03:03: PM
tinkrbelle
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I agree about the luch thing being degrading! I HATED doing lunches. What I hated most was the office staff complaing when you brought them something they didnt like. AT one lunch, the Office Manager came in and looked at my food and turned her nose up and said " we dont like this restaurant", and one of the nurses eating, said "it is a free lunch you know". Hated this whole part of it.
Vagitarian
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- Vagitarian Mar 26, 2011 at 03:08: PM
Vagitarian
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I'm with AM4 on this one and the 'real salespeople' have to pay for their lunches. Back in the day, I used to be allowed to take customers to Laker games, Dodger games, the Magic Castle - it was a blast. I still do lunches now and then but primarily when I need to inservice an entire staff on a new development. I always have them catered by a deli and don't have to set it up or break it down so the 'degradation factor' simply isn't there.
The pharma industry is a fraud...a ruse...a charade....from each and every step of the way....on the "sales/marketing" side.
It's starts in training....whereby the company has spent a few hundred grand or more to "do it" the "new way".
And the "new way" is just like the old way...only spun with new marketing terminology.
And it's all bullshit. If the sales reps do it the way the company wants it done....then the rep would be thrown out of every office within 2 passes through his territory. Period.
Secondly, because of this absolute nonsense, each and every "sales" rep is forced to lie....each and every day...regarding the documentation of their sales calls/details. And they are forced to lie multiple times each and every day.
This is part of the culture nurtured through daily lying, deceit. and fraud.
Then there is the unbelievable amount of dollar waste. I could write for 30 minutes on this and hardly scratch the surface.
And finally...the wasted years on one's career. On a resume, the "age factor" should be an asset from an experience point of view. Well, it isn't. You have regressed in knowledge and field expertise.
People need to be honest with themselves for one lousy, goddam minute.
Are you really good at sales...or aren't you? If you are truly talented...then use those talents in a real sales arena...whereby public speaking, interactive communication, empathy with the potential buyer/customer, being an accomplished negotiator, being able to truly garner trust with the potential buyers are all really important...then get the fuck out of pharma. Get out...and get out now....and it doesn't matter what your age is either.
I started my 3rd career at the ripe old age of 56...after "knowing it all" in the previous 2...
It inhales starting again as a "wet behind the ears" rookie again. But the cream rises and the respect does comes back.
It's starts in training....whereby the company has spent a few hundred grand or more to "do it" the "new way".
And the "new way" is just like the old way...only spun with new marketing terminology.
And it's all bullshit. If the sales reps do it the way the company wants it done....then the rep would be thrown out of every office within 2 passes through his territory. Period.
Secondly, because of this absolute nonsense, each and every "sales" rep is forced to lie....each and every day...regarding the documentation of their sales calls/details. And they are forced to lie multiple times each and every day.
This is part of the culture nurtured through daily lying, deceit. and fraud.
Then there is the unbelievable amount of dollar waste. I could write for 30 minutes on this and hardly scratch the surface.
And finally...the wasted years on one's career. On a resume, the "age factor" should be an asset from an experience point of view. Well, it isn't. You have regressed in knowledge and field expertise.
People need to be honest with themselves for one lousy, goddam minute.
Are you really good at sales...or aren't you? If you are truly talented...then use those talents in a real sales arena...whereby public speaking, interactive communication, empathy with the potential buyer/customer, being an accomplished negotiator, being able to truly garner trust with the potential buyers are all really important...then get the fuck out of pharma. Get out...and get out now....and it doesn't matter what your age is either.
I started my 3rd career at the ripe old age of 56...after "knowing it all" in the previous 2...
It inhales starting again as a "wet behind the ears" rookie again. But the cream rises and the respect does comes back.
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There is a first time for everything, but I agree with every single word you say. The most telling line you said was about the lies.
For all of you who boast about "being home at noon sipping a cocktail by the pool" ask your self if you would tell your manager what you are doing?
The lies of the job is what eventually got to me. You can argue that the company forces you to lie, but at the end of the day it is still lying.
In pharma you lie to your boss, your customers and worst of all yourself. Do what Hairy suggests and get the hell out.
Drug Dumper
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- Drug Dumper Mar 26, 2011 at 04:59: PM
Drug Dumper
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I had one tell me they only eat hot lunches, and insisted on tablecloths and metal utensils. No plastic or paper for them. And the preferred meal was roast beef with roasted potatoes, green beans, rolls, and -get this PHo - Peach Cobbler!!!
Then I had another one tell me the only way I could do a lunch was to take the entire office to a resturant after 6pm and that resturant had to had tablecloths, etc.
Vagitarian
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- Vagitarian Mar 26, 2011 at 06:08: PM
Vagitarian
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I agree with most every word you say - although I don't relate to the lies, I see it happen. There's a fine line between 'lie' and 'spin'. Every salesman romances (spins) his/her wares. The art is to do some sin without crossing the lie line.
While most people are in 'template' mode, when I talk about being home at noon (doing whatever I'm doing) my manager doesn't care how I do what I do (whether it calles for phone calls or 2 calls a day or 15, he/she knows I'll do what I have to do legally to get the business. Since I've been in this territory for 24 years, I have personal credibility as well as the luxury of not having to lie about products in my day to day and I wouldn't do it even if asked.
Yes, the gap between training and the real world is immense but I have an excellent territory, possibly a unique situation, I've taken years to earn the reputatiion I've earned and I wouldn't throw this away for anything - except to retire. I will admit, at times when I was younger, I didn't feel this way but in my case, it was hang in and win.
I've been in 2 other businesses since I began my 1st pharma career and loved the businesses, the recession of the 80s did them in. I have no illusions that this is sales anymore - it was 25 years ago. Now we're an arm of the marketing department. So with no illusions and no necessity to lie, I am loving the hell out of this until I hang up the spikes. I have the perfect territory geographically, I have the perfect manager, I have an excellent compensation program.
Reading the rest of the responses, I guess maybe I'm a lucky guy in a unique situation. I thank you for that. As far as 'getting out' my advice is, if that's what you wanna do, get something lined up before you leave and remember an old adage, 'It's easier to get a job when you have a job.' At least you have a job. Look carefully though before you leap. These checkls don't bounce and if you're a survivor, sometimes things work out for the best.
Another thought, pill peddling is the worst. As you look to jump ship, also look within your own organization for opportunities in things like: Injectables, vaccines, devices, equipment, instrumentation, etc. I haven't distrubuted a sample in 15 years yet work for a big pharma comp[any. My nephew is in his late 30s, works for CR Bard, makes around $250K year and doesn't have to lie. Coporate red tape (expense accounts, etc) is a different issue - it's always there.
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I understand T.
However, when I was a DM I turned an eye if someone's last call was at 3pm. I was 'real' and encouraged excellence but could care less what amount of time they did it in...providing it was not off the charts.
I had great reps and we all respected one another. There were 2 that I put on PIP for good reason. Also - I NEVER made a spreadsheet and tracked people unless there was cause. I had my eyes and ears open. As far as programs and admin, I say BS to that. Home office people work over 60 hours a week...at least. I applaud the hard workers but I have no pity for the slackers as you say who sue. They are paid very well, have a company car, bonus and lots of other perks.
The deposition I have involves a slacker who was fired with a laundry list of HR issues. I'll roast him if I have to.
Tink, I have to disagree with you on this one. I've been in the industry nearly 30 years. While the monitoring and bs got completely out of hand, the hours worked didn't change that much. I personally think there are at least as many slackers as workers and the companies know it too. They went crazy with monitoring because there was no other way to show why they had so many people or to justify the salaries paid. But now the reps want to have the flexibility of the job and then not be asked to work a weekend or evenings either. Those supporting the lawsuit are mostly slackers and have cut off their nose to spite their face. Either you are a salaried professional and except and expect that you work more than 40 hours a week or you are an hourly worker punching a time clock. You don't get it both ways. And I can almost guarantee you will earn a whole lot less when they assign an hourly wage to the job.
Think about it - if you only work a 40 hour week that's 2080 hours a year, if you still get paid vacations. If a rep earns $90,000 a year, that's $43 an hour not counting bennies. Forget bonuses too because if you don't sell anything, what the heck would a bonus be for?
There was some hope for drug reps for a short time. With the economy and lay offs, there were changes even in a couple huge companies. Some had quit counting calls. Many quit doing programs that no longer drew audiences. But now, if hourly wage rules control your life, it will be absolute hell. Hourly workers clock in and out. They have an 8.5-hour day with one 15 minute break in the morning and afternoon and a 30 minute non-paid lunch time. You will have to show proof you are working. Any chance of the job returning to professional status is gone if this nonsense stands.
Scarlett, it sounds like you are closer to this than any of us so would love to hear your take!
Think about it - if you only work a 40 hour week that's 2080 hours a year, if you still get paid vacations. If a rep earns $90,000 a year, that's $43 an hour not counting bennies. Forget bonuses too because if you don't sell anything, what the heck would a bonus be for?
There was some hope for drug reps for a short time. With the economy and lay offs, there were changes even in a couple huge companies. Some had quit counting calls. Many quit doing programs that no longer drew audiences. But now, if hourly wage rules control your life, it will be absolute hell. Hourly workers clock in and out. They have an 8.5-hour day with one 15 minute break in the morning and afternoon and a 30 minute non-paid lunch time. You will have to show proof you are working. Any chance of the job returning to professional status is gone if this nonsense stands.
Scarlett, it sounds like you are closer to this than any of us so would love to hear your take!
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I agree with most of what you say except with how you characterize the bonus. Getting paid bonus the way pharma does it actually supprts the reps position that they are not sales. When you sell something you get a commision on that sale and the company owes it to you. Even though most companies use sales metrics to calculuate bonus, many companies pay out bonuses whether people are in sales or not.
In my present position, I get commission and bonus. The first I am entitled to if I make a sale. The second the company is not obligated to pay out.
Vagitarian
Well-Known Member
It's really different in my industry. We have breakfast and lunch brought in almost every day. It's informative to listen to the rep/wholesaler and the new products or sales ideas. The meetings are very informal. Afterwards we make sure the literature is up to date/compliant and that's the end.
My people would never eat like pigs or steal food to take home like I've read on this site. My 3 CSR's act like ladies. Y'all must work w/ some real animals.
My people would never eat like pigs or steal food to take home like I've read on this site. My 3 CSR's act like ladies. Y'all must work w/ some real animals.