Party is over......

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Anonymous said:
The reason why a dog like Zobsolv can kick your ass is that now the lazy ass , no sales skills CL's now have to "sell" ... My guess is only the true Pharma Reps will do well... Anyone with a background in counseling say hello to your former 35k job as BIG Pharma will laugh at your resumes! The market shifts to Pain and Addiction without true sales skills you will get cooked during the 5 step interview process! Bye!
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Well said. Competition has shown where are weakness is as anyone can sell when we had no competition for years. Last year has been the worse and next year will be even worse. Starts at top in Richmond as they were blindsided by Orexo and we will probably lose share to BDSI. I can sell in tier 3 but I cannot sell thru blocks by these health plans. Drs are also becoming frustrated with how hard it has become to get the Film approved. We got issues.
 






Anonymous said:
Well said. Competition has shown where are weakness is as anyone can sell when we had no competition for years. Last year has been the worse and next year will be even worse. Starts at top in Richmond as they were blindsided by Orexo and we will probably lose share to BDSI. I can sell in tier 3 but I cannot sell thru blocks by these health plans. Drs are also becoming frustrated with how hard it has become to get the Film approved. We got issues.
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??? What language is that? Seriously, please tell me you are not in the field!
 






Well well well.... Imagine a CL actually having to sell Suboxone to a provider who has a choice. For the last few years they were handed MC wins and did not do a damn thing other than show up in an office and drop off patient brochures. It's a sales person's game now and its time to roll up your sleeves and actually earn your pay for the first time. ABM's aren't far behind them.

The competitors will continue to to win in the offices and with the payers. I doubt Orexo or BDSI would even take many Cl's because they have proven they cannot sell. Whine yes, sell no. It was inevitable the truth would come out...we always pretended to be "liaisons" above the "lowly" pharma reps......the fact is...IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT GROWTH, not transforming lives as the CL's wanted to believe.
 












Anonymous said:
Agree on Zubsolv and BDSI not hiring CLs unless
they have Pharma experience.. We all know plenty
of CLs who would be laughed at by Pharma
hiring Mgrs..
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Why waste time hiring more Reps? We should be doubling our Account Mgmt team to stop Orexo at the Health Plan's. That is where their big advantage over us rests. Just a thought fot 2015.
 






The new copay card is finally competitive with Orexo and BDSI. The cash business can be regained if you can sell. Most doctors prefer the Film but have been forced to write Zubsolv for cost reasons. I have a large Medicaid & cash population. I've already had doctors say they're switching their cash patients back to Film. Right now the discount makes Film a good deal cheaper than generic Suboxone, and at least in the ballpark of Zubsolv. Managed care is another issue, but at least we have a fighting chance with the self-pay patients.
 






Anonymous said:
Well well well.... Imagine a CL actually having to sell Suboxone to a provider who has a choice. For the last few years they were handed MC wins and did not do a damn thing other than show up in an office and drop off patient brochures. It's a sales person's game now and its time to roll up your sleeves and actually earn your pay for the first time. ABM's aren't far behind them.

The competitors will continue to to win in the offices and with the payers. I doubt Orexo or BDSI would even take many Cl's because they have proven they cannot sell. Whine yes, sell no. It was inevitable the truth would come out...we always pretended to be "liaisons" above the "lowly" pharma reps......the fact is...IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT GROWTH, not transforming lives as the CL's wanted to believe.
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You make good points. However, you are wrong about us, well some of us, never being able to sell. You think I didn't have to sell this whole treatment to my docs back in the day?? THAT was selling. "Here doc, treat a bunch of addicts with a product that has never been used before in the US. Oh and by the way; you won't make much money doing it, the patients are a pain in the ass, and your phone will ring off the hook."
Nah, that wasn't selling at all.
I get that the market has changed....and CLs have to adapt or go. The simple fact is, both competitors' products are inferior to Film. And I'm not saying that as a kool-aid drinking employee. Ask the doctors. Most hate Zubsolv. Patients don't like it (unless they want to abuse it). Bunavail's early returns are: it sucks. Where we're getting fucked over is in the managed care department. It's hard to sell when your product isn't even on formulary.
So, it all hinges on coverage. I can sell ketchup popsicles to women in white gloves but I can't overcome managed care blocks. That's the pharma game, MC positioning.
 






No. You all make petty inaccurate points, because you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. As one who was here from day one, I do know what took place and unlike you, know the history here better than you ever will. We all had extensive sales experience in medical, pharma and diagnostic devices. Those that did not, struggled. Many of us had been thru drug launches already and in addition, some had Masters degrees in counseling and other fields. All but a few earned both experiential & thru education, unlike you, the title C.L. We had to bust ass to sell this med, in territories the size of which are unimaginable to any tep
We had serious issues to overcome, not the least of which was a methadone & pain med industry who had done their best to make us and our med look as bad as possible. You couldn't gave hacked the push back or travel we dealt with, with your pathetic need to sound superior. Ya puss. By the way, counselors with masters degrees and sales experience make way more than your little self entitled pharma rep ass will in a lifetime. Try more like 6 figures ya brain dead jealous peon reppie. Yeah that's right, so sick on that piece of reality while you pull you head out of your ass..
The so called counselors you refer to are the posers, who thank God were few. Those were the nuts who came in with financial counseling experience or degrees in psychology and didn't know Shit from shinola, like you.
 






Anonymous said:
No. You all make petty inaccurate points, because you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. As one who was here from day one, I do know what took place and unlike you, know the history here better than you ever will. We all had extensive sales experience in medical, pharma and diagnostic devices. Those that did not, struggled. Many of us had been thru drug launches already and in addition, some had Masters degrees in counseling and other fields. All but a few earned both experiential & thru education, unlike you, the title C.L. We had to bust ass to sell this med, in territories the size of which are unimaginable to any tep
We had serious issues to overcome, not the least of which was a methadone & pain med industry who had done their best to make us and our med look as bad as possible. You couldn't gave hacked the push back or travel we dealt with, with your pathetic need to sound superior. Ya puss. By the way, counselors with masters degrees and sales experience make way more than your little self entitled pharma rep ass will in a lifetime. Try more like 6 figures ya brain dead jealous peon reppie. Yeah that's right, so sick on that piece of reality while you pull you head out of your ass..
The so called counselors you refer to are the posers, who thank God were few. Those were the nuts who came in with financial counseling experience or degrees in psychology and didn't know Shit from shinola, like you.
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What the hell? I haven't been here from day 1 but pretty damn close. I dealt with almost everything you mentioned in your post. Maybe you missed my comments about how hard it was to sell doctors on the idea of treating addicts in their own offices. It was the post right before your diatribe. So don't come on here with your consdescending attitude, putting down CLs just like you. Not all of us are "peon repppies" Some of us have been here nearly as long as you, Big Shot. We went to New Orleans, Vegas, Austin, did the charity work, passed out the feather brochures, and built our territories from nothing. My point was, the game has changed and no matter how long any of us have been here, it's adapt or get steamrolled by competition and generics.
 












Screw you and your layoff talk. You have some inside info? If so, please share. If not, get out with the bullshit rumors. Our sales force is 175, not 2,000. We had 180+ reps when we were only making $250 million. You probably don't even work here, schmuck.
 






Ahhhh I do work here and see lazy every day. Of 175 reps only 100 are worth keeping , if you are one on those with a Counseling background bye! I have had many a brew with management who feel the same way.
 






Anonymous said:
The new copay card is finally competitive with Orexo and BDSI. The cash business can be regained if you can sell. Most doctors prefer the Film but have been forced to write Zubsolv for cost reasons. I have a large Medicaid & cash population. I've already had doctors say they're switching their cash patients back to Film. Right now the discount makes Film a good deal cheaper than generic Suboxone, and at least in the ballpark of Zubsolv. Managed care is another issue, but at least we have a fighting chance with the self-pay patients.
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Problem is that cash patients are only 10% of the market. Managed care and Medicaid is the rest We already lost in managed care as Orexo has captured several large plans where they are exclusive and Medicaid for the most part is still us but I know we lost a few there. Need to be on target with our messaging and find those Drs who can write for Film. Just waiting to hear what other Plans will be blocking the Film come the new year. Hard to sell when blocked or Step Edited. Can be done but must be patient. Good luck.
 






Orexo has a few plans, BFD. It still is inferior and the patients don't like it. If you can't sell against that then leave because we need to get rid of the few whiney child reps who have never earned anything, but had it all handed to them. Bunavail is even worse and turns into a wad of sticky gum. Do your job and things will be fine.
 






Anonymous said:
Orexo has a few plans, BFD. It still is inferior and the patients don't like it. If you can't sell against that then leave because we need to get rid of the few whiney child reps who have never earned anything, but had it all handed to them. Bunavail is even worse and turns into a wad of sticky gum. Do your job and things will be fine.
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Yep. It's a worse fiasco than Zubsolv. Patients like what they're familiar with. And that is 16mg of Film. Not 5.745433 mg of some other product 2-3x a day. Our biggest issue is generics, not these also-ran competitors. The only reason my docs write Poopsolv is bc of managed care, and even then it's not much. Your mileage may vary however.
 






Get ready to lose Medicaid. When Pile-O dumped the state governments government folks, he got rid of all hope of maintaining Medicaid coverage. Those guys knew how to get beyond P&T committees.
 












Anonymous said:
Get ready to lose Medicaid. When Pile-O dumped the state governments government folks, he got rid of all hope of maintaining Medicaid coverage. Those guys knew how to get beyond P&T committees.
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Those Government people weren't as great as they liked to think they were. With competition, we will lose some. Shit happens. Orexo is willing to give the product away to get business, but the patients still don't like the product. Film is still the superior product! Ask CVS what a pain their decision to go with Zub was, hahaha!
 












Anonymous said:
and no one that matters is still talking about RP
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Yeah, you wish. Pilo's destruction commercial accounts (United, CVS, Wellpoint) AND his running off govt MC talent is the BIGGEST reason you are losing ground, market share has dropped - he is singularly responsible for this huge loss of business. The buffoon still thinks he's all that.

And PS. the former govt MC managers had valuable skills in dealing with P&Ts and working relationships with key people. The only people left are former CLs who have no business managing payer accounts. Sad.
 






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