Part-time positions

[Anonymous]

then you are just Stoopid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Anonymous]

So, you were obviously looking in the mirror when you typed this.

 

[Anonymous]

The simple answer to your question is that the admin time comes from the same place for us as it does for the full time rep. We either work on it while we are waiting to get to see a doc or we do it at home during off hours. What makes you think the full time person has an advantage with admin time? And you are absolutely wrong about my territory. It is not small and has a lot of rural areas in it. It actually isn't too much different from the geography that I had when I was full time at a pharma company. The only difference is that I use my car and I am reimbursed for its use. I plan my daily route so that the first and last calls are as close to my home as I can make them and I do not schedule appointments on days that will make me have to run all over the territory to do my job. So quit trying to make me out as someone that has advantages over you or anyone else. It just ain't true.

Bingo!!! you just targeted the flaw in this shared sales model!!!! We cannot afford to do the admin time during off hours. We are then working a FULL TIME work week or very close. We need to be able to complete all the admin time within the 75% work week, or as you calculated within the 3.75 days. Of course doing this would take us out of the field, and we need everday in the field to call on 131 targets, you notice I did not say 131 doctors. I say Targets due to fact there are times when the doctor is not in, they have seen their quota for the day, they will not sign without samples etc. This is time consuming especially if you have driven to a rural area, only to have to drive back a second or third time in the month to catch the target if you are over your quota of shared practice. 131 targets could easily escalate to an extra 20 or 30 extra calls in a month. Your credibility of portraying yourself as a rep ends here, you are management doing damage control on CP. You are showing us with your simplistic ideals that you really don't know what a Day in The Life of a Shared Rep is like.

 

[Anonymous]

Bingo!!! you just targeted the flaw in this shared sales model!!!! We cannot afford to do the admin time during off hours. We are then working a FULL TIME work week or very close. We need to be able to complete all the admin time within the 75% work week, or as you calculated within the 3.75 days. Of course doing this would take us out of the field, and we need everday in the field to call on 131 targets, you notice I did not say 131 doctors. I say Targets due to fact there are times when the doctor is not in, they have seen their quota for the day, they will not sign without samples etc. This is time consuming especially if you have driven to a rural area, only to have to drive back a second or third time in the month to catch the target if you are over your quota of shared practice. 131 targets could easily escalate to an extra 20 or 30 extra calls in a month. Your credibility of portraying yourself as a rep ends here, you are management doing damage control on CP. You are showing us with your simplistic ideals that you really don't know what a Day in The Life of a Shared Rep is like.

Ohhh, you just hit the nail on the head. A perfect example of overcoming a perceived objection. There's the "ideal" of what someone thinks our postion "should" be, vs. what it really is.

LOVE IT and thanks. And btw, my expectation has always been 150 calls and that does equal full-time and then some. The only reason I can be on here today is, because of the weather, however I will have to make up all this lost time. We have no time out of territory due to unforseen issues. We are PDI SS mules.

 

[Anonymous]

Bingo!!! you just targeted the flaw in this shared sales model!!!! We cannot afford to do the admin time during off hours. We are then working a FULL TIME work week or very close. We need to be able to complete all the admin time within the 75% work week, or as you calculated within the 3.75 days. Of course doing this would take us out of the field, and we need everday in the field to call on 131 targets, you notice I did not say 131 doctors. I say Targets due to fact there are times when the doctor is not in, they have seen their quota for the day, they will not sign without samples etc. This is time consuming especially if you have driven to a rural area, only to have to drive back a second or third time in the month to catch the target if you are over your quota of shared practice. 131 targets could easily escalate to an extra 20 or 30 extra calls in a month. Your credibility of portraying yourself as a rep ends here, you are management doing damage control on CP. You are showing us with your simplistic ideals that you really don't know what a Day in The Life of a Shared Rep is like.

And you continue to show your ignorance of listening to other options. Every model whether shared, dedicated or full time rep for a pharma company faces the same complications in dealing with admin time. What you do not seem to understand is that being in shared does not exempt you or me from basic duties. Therefore your complaints about how you are not compensated for these duties fails on it's own merits. All you prove is that you have admin to do and you look for someone else to blame because you have a difficult time in doing it. We all face the same challenges but you complain about yours while the silent majority who do not probably even look at CP just do the job and get it over with knowing that is part of the obligation accepted when they take the job. You have difficult in understanding the role of a competent rep whether they be shared, dedicated or working for a pharma company. Plus your inane attempt at adding another post to support your view will not work as it is clearly what you have done since they follow each other so closely on a site where each post must be reviewed before official posting.

 

[Anonymous]

And you continue to show your ignorance of listening to other options. Every model whether shared, dedicated or full time rep for a pharma company faces the same complications in dealing with admin time. What you do not seem to understand is that being in shared does not exempt you or me from basic duties. Therefore your complaints about how you are not compensated for these duties fails on it's own merits. All you prove is that you have admin to do and you look for someone else to blame because you have a difficult time in doing it. We all face the same challenges but you complain about yours while the silent majority who do not probably even look at CP just do the job and get it over with knowing that is part of the obligation accepted when they take the job. You have difficult in understanding the role of a competent rep whether they be shared, dedicated or working for a pharma company. Plus your inane attempt at adding another post to support your view will not work as it is clearly what you have done since they follow each other so closely on a site where each post must be reviewed before official posting.

It is humorous the way you sidestep the ISSUE, if you want to argue please address the issues at hand instead of the accusatory environment you resort to when you can't come up with an answer. Shared Sales reps are simply losing money working 3.75 days a week in the field and doing this extraordinary amount of admn on their own time. It easily takes a full week to complete all the duties PDI Shared Sales requires each week. I do not have a difficult time doing the admn work because I don't work for PDI anymore. I did the calculations like did and came up with a different result, that being, - working far beyond the hours you were paying me and chose to jump ship.

 

[Anonymous]

BTW what are hiring DM's and recruiters telling "new hires" as far as # days worked per week. I recall seeing disgruntled "new hires" posting here on cp that it is actually far more than what they are told in the interview. Why don't they tell them the worst case scenario, so they can do their own calculations before investing so much time and then being sadly disappointed or broke in the pocketbook? Reps come aboard thinking they can work and enjoy their outside activities and hobbies. I am found this is not the case.

 

[Anonymous]

It is humorous the way you sidestep the ISSUE, if you want to argue please address the issues at hand instead of the accusatory environment you resort to when you can't come up with an answer. Shared Sales reps are simply losing money working 3.75 days a week in the field and doing this extraordinary amount of admn on their own time. It easily takes a full week to complete all the duties PDI Shared Sales requires each week. I do not have a difficult time doing the admn work because I don't work for PDI anymore. I did the calculations like did and came up with a different result, that being, - working far beyond the hours you were paying me and chose to jump ship.

Yes, and I would like to add there is more then one person that agree's with you. I can't believe some ignoramus thinks that only one person feels abused here or has issues with how this model is designed.

 

[Anonymous]

Real pharma = 60K minimum, plus bonus -additional 5 figures, plus car, plus gas, maintenance. For that money plus perks I will do admin at night/during personal time

PDI= $20/signature, under compensated for using my car to do their work, (only 0.42/mile )paltry bonus, if you qualify - and admin work when not out collecting signatures

NO COMPARISON!!

 

[Anonymous]

It is humorous the way you sidestep the ISSUE, if you want to argue please address the issues at hand instead of the accusatory environment you resort to when you can't come up with an answer. Shared Sales reps are simply losing money working 3.75 days a week in the field and doing this extraordinary amount of admn on their own time. It easily takes a full week to complete all the duties PDI Shared Sales requires each week. I do not have a difficult time doing the admn work because I don't work for PDI anymore. I did the calculations like did and came up with a different result, that being, - working far beyond the hours you were paying me and chose to jump ship.

Sidestepping the issue is you not being willing to give up this job that is making you lose money. You are either very hard up or you are not being honest in your evaluation of what it is costing you. If you need more money than you are getting have the courage to go to your management and tell them. If you are unwilling to do that, find a safer occupation for you.

 

[Anonymous]

A full time position requires a minimum of 160 calls in a month if there are only 20 working days in the month. The average number of work days for FT reps is about 22. This means the FT rep must make a minimum of 176 calls in a month every month just to qualify for bonus payout. When you look at the normal call requirements based on number of targets in the FT plan plus the number of calls that must be made in a sales period that number can increase to as many as 200 calls per month. The part time position by definition is equivalent in call and time worked requirements is 75% of these numbers. 132 calls is 75% of 176 calls. In other words, the goal of 130 is less than than the minimum calls required on a full time rep.

Flex time or part time does not mean that we have to be less capable than a full time rep would be. It just means that we have expectations set based on the time we are asked to devote to the job. I was told that a PT position has expectations of 3 1/2 days per week. Since 75% of a 5 day week equals 3.75 that number appears to be also in our favor. I would bet that there are very few, if any, companies of all industries that provide the same benefits for a PT sales force that they do the FT one. I learned in working a flexible shift that if you plan your routing as best you can and leave out a lot of extra trips that I would get trapped into making when I did not plan well, I kept down cost of using my car a great deal. In addition, an agreement to reimburse us for expenses incurred is not to help us make extra money on the use of these things, it is just to cover the basic actual cost. An effort to make this happen as accurately as possible is the responsibility of any company that pays in this manner and how they do it is audited to ensure no applicable federal laws are violated.

Sorry for the long answer from me but it is complicated. In a former life, I had to work through these type of calculations all of the time and it was a difficult job always.

If a fulltime rep has to make 160 calls per month, what do you call a requirement of 150 calls per month: a "you are not fulltime rep" position, therefore you dont deserve the pay of a real rep?

 

[Anonymous]

Sidestepping the issue is you not being willing to give up this job that is making you lose money. You are either very hard up or you are not being honest in your evaluation of what it is costing you. If you need more money than you are getting have the courage to go to your management and tell them. If you are unwilling to do that, find a safer occupation for you.

Are you suggesting that our manager will increase our income if we ask them?

 

[Anonymous]

Sidestepping the issue is you not being willing to give up this job that is making you lose money. You are either very hard up or you are not being honest in your evaluation of what it is costing you. If you need more money than you are getting have the courage to go to your management and tell them. If you are unwilling to do that, find a safer occupation for you.

I gave up the job - read my last sentence, jumped ship!!

 

[Anonymous]

A full time position requires a minimum of 160 calls in a month if there are only 20 working days in the month. The average number of work days for FT reps is about 22. This means the FT rep must make a minimum of 176 calls in a month every month just to qualify for bonus payout. When you look at the normal call requirements based on number of targets in the FT plan plus the number of calls that must be made in a sales period that number can increase to as many as 200 calls per month. The part time position by definition is equivalent in call and time worked requirements is 75% of these numbers. 132 calls is 75% of 176 calls. In other words, the goal of 130 is less than than the minimum calls required on a full time rep.

Flex time or part time does not mean that we have to be less capable than a full time rep would be. It just means that we have expectations set based on the time we are asked to devote to the job. I was told that a PT position has expectations of 3 1/2 days per week. Since 75% of a 5 day week equals 3.75 that number appears to be also in our favor. I would bet that there are very few, if any, companies of all industries that provide the same benefits for a PT sales force that they do the FT one. I learned in working a flexible shift that if you plan your routing as best you can and leave out a lot of extra trips that I would get trapped into making when I did not plan well, I kept down cost of using my car a great deal. In addition, an agreement to reimburse us for expenses incurred is not to help us make extra money on the use of these things, it is just to cover the basic actual cost. An effort to make this happen as accurately as possible is the responsibility of any company that pays in this manner and how they do it is audited to ensure no applicable federal laws are violated.

Sorry for the long answer from me but it is complicated. In a former life, I had to work through these type of calculations all of the time and it was a difficult job always.

I normally don't post on CF pharma, but this one I had too... First of all pharma companies don't base your FT salary based on completing a certain # of calls as stated above, but based on moving marketshare or inceasing sales dollars (well maybe PDI FT requires a certan number of calls, but a pharma company wants you to move business. Of course pharma companies may look at your call averages to make sure you are working, but they care about moving the business).

Second, if I am expected to do 75% of the work of a FT rep, then I should be paid 75% of the salary. Let's say a FT rep at PDI makes on the LOW end $55,000 plus a car, full benefits, vacation and paid holidays, then a shared sales rep required to work 75% of a FT rep should make 75% of $55,000 or $41,250 plus 75% of FT benefits, 75% of vaction and 75% of the paid holidays. However, if I complete 130 calls/month I will make $31,200 with no paid vacation and no paid holidays.

Additionally, Shared Sales leadership has no clue on how to drive marketshare. We are currently in the middle of flu season and we are down to 1 call/month for most Tamiflu targets (high deciles may have 2 calls/month) but are doing 2 calls/month on Enablex targets. Hello, now is the time we should be making 2 Tamiflu calls, not in December and even January when most of the country had NO flu. If the rep had the power, to make the calls for the quarter based on market needs we would be so much better off (for example, I would have made my extra Enablex calls in January and did the extra Tamiflu in February because that is what my market needs). We have no control and no say. We are given the targets and we must call on the targets for the brand assigned.

Finally, I agree that administrative work should be compensated (just like PDIU work is). I also think that we should be compensated for all of our District teleconferences that can last well over an hour. Of course those teleconferences are always right in the middle of prime-time selling time so they end up costing me money.

Now please understand, I choose to do this job because it works with my lifestyle right now. However, those that don't think we are taken advantage of here, have their head in the sand. This job does offer flexibility, but the way we are managed (from all levels) does make you frustrated at times.

 

[Anonymous]

THANK YOU for such a well thought reply.

Just curious, how many days a month does it take to complete your 130 calls/signatures??

I can't even get to 130, and I'm out there 5days/week.

Thank you again.

 

[Anonymous]

I normally don't post on CF pharma, but this one I had too... First of all pharma companies don't base your FT salary based on completing a certain # of calls as stated above, but based on moving marketshare or inceasing sales dollars (well maybe PDI FT requires a certan number of calls, but a pharma company wants you to move business. Of course pharma companies may look at your call averages to make sure you are working, but they care about moving the business).

Second, if I am expected to do 75% of the work of a FT rep, then I should be paid 75% of the salary. Let's say a FT rep at PDI makes on the LOW end $55,000 plus a car, full benefits, vacation and paid holidays, then a shared sales rep required to work 75% of a FT rep should make 75% of $55,000 or $41,250 plus 75% of FT benefits, 75% of vaction and 75% of the paid holidays. However, if I complete 130 calls/month I will make $31,200 with no paid vacation and no paid holidays.

Additionally, Shared Sales leadership has no clue on how to drive marketshare. We are currently in the middle of flu season and we are down to 1 call/month for most Tamiflu targets (high deciles may have 2 calls/month) but are doing 2 calls/month on Enablex targets. Hello, now is the time we should be making 2 Tamiflu calls, not in December and even January when most of the country had NO flu. If the rep had the power, to make the calls for the quarter based on market needs we would be so much better off (for example, I would have made my extra Enablex calls in January and did the extra Tamiflu in February because that is what my market needs). We have no control and no say. We are given the targets and we must call on the targets for the brand assigned.

Finally, I agree that administrative work should be compensated (just like PDIU work is). I also think that we should be compensated for all of our District teleconferences that can last well over an hour. Of course those teleconferences are always right in the middle of prime-time selling time so they end up costing me money.

Now please understand, I choose to do this job because it works with my lifestyle right now. However, those that don't think we are taken advantage of here, have their head in the sand. This job does offer flexibility, but the way we are managed (from all levels) does make you frustrated at times.

I have been here forever and make much less than
$24 a call or the $31,200 you noted in your post above. It is very disheartening!

 

[Anonymous]

THANK YOU for such a well thought reply.

Just curious, how many days a month does it take to complete your 130 calls/signatures??

I can't even get to 130, and I'm out there 5days/week.

Thank you again.

I too, have to routinely work 5 days a week. The reason being, to be able to see my targets. I can't see them whenever "I" want, but whenever they make themselves available to me. I work mornings, then kill 2 hours in my car to wait until afternoon and then make more calls. Its brutal and I personally find it impossible to do this job PT. Flex is not so much flex for me, but how I must be to be able to call on all my targets and now with 4 products and Hospital calls I feel overwhelmed and under appreciated. All these different products at the same time eats up my entire day. When the weather gets bad I have real issues making my call quota, because I can not afford unplanned days off.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you suggesting that our manager will increase our income if we ask them?

No. I am suggesting that companies have channels through which they expect us to operate. It is probably written somewhere in an HR manual about filing a grievance. The normal procedure is to go to your immediate manager FIRST and then go further up the line if that person does not appropriately reflect your concern. Final action by us can be taken through official notification of the issue with HR. You may not hear the answer that you like but you should get a full explanation. If they fail to follow these steps with us, then you have written documentation of their failure. That, my friend, becomes worth something in a complaint to labor authorities or through legal matters if you really have a case. If your complaint is really just your opinion about something, none of these people will listen to or support you.

 

[Anonymous]

I normally don't post on CF pharma, but this one I had too... First of all pharma companies don't base your FT salary based on completing a certain # of calls as stated above, but based on moving marketshare or inceasing sales dollars (well maybe PDI FT requires a certan number of calls, but a pharma company wants you to move business. Of course pharma companies may look at your call averages to make sure you are working, but they care about moving the business).

Second, if I am expected to do 75% of the work of a FT rep, then I should be paid 75% of the salary. Let's say a FT rep at PDI makes on the LOW end $55,000 plus a car, full benefits, vacation and paid holidays, then a shared sales rep required to work 75% of a FT rep should make 75% of $55,000 or $41,250 plus 75% of FT benefits, 75% of vaction and 75% of the paid holidays. However, if I complete 130 calls/month I will make $31,200 with no paid vacation and no paid holidays.

Additionally, Shared Sales leadership has no clue on how to drive marketshare. We are currently in the middle of flu season and we are down to 1 call/month for most Tamiflu targets (high deciles may have 2 calls/month) but are doing 2 calls/month on Enablex targets. Hello, now is the time we should be making 2 Tamiflu calls, not in December and even January when most of the country had NO flu. If the rep had the power, to make the calls for the quarter based on market needs we would be so much better off (for example, I would have made my extra Enablex calls in January and did the extra Tamiflu in February because that is what my market needs). We have no control and no say. We are given the targets and we must call on the targets for the brand assigned.

Finally, I agree that administrative work should be compensated (just like PDIU work is). I also think that we should be compensated for all of our District teleconferences that can last well over an hour. Of course those teleconferences are always right in the middle of prime-time selling time so they end up costing me money.

Now please understand, I choose to do this job because it works with my lifestyle right now. However, those that don't think we are taken advantage of here, have their head in the sand. This job does offer flexibility, but the way we are managed (from all levels) does make you frustrated at times.

Geez . . . . . . if you would spend as much time collecting sigs as you do responding to posts here . . . . . . . you'd be making some serious cash! Now let's hop to, get out and work and collect those sigs! Comprende?

 

[Anonymous]

No. I am suggesting that companies have channels through which they expect us to operate. It is probably written somewhere in an HR manual about filing a grievance. The normal procedure is to go to your immediate manager FIRST and then go further up the line if that person does not appropriately reflect your concern. Final action by us can be taken through official notification of the issue with HR. You may not hear the answer that you like but you should get a full explanation. If they fail to follow these steps with us, then you have written documentation of their failure. That, my friend, becomes worth something in a complaint to labor authorities or through legal matters if you really have a case. If your complaint is really just your opinion about something, none of these people will listen to or support you.

I'm not sure what perfect world you live in, but in my experience this road is the road to no job. Complaining to HR? They work for the company, the share holders and the bottom line. They don't give 2 hoots about us.