Pain Creams

Our pharmacy has seen a 42% drop in what is being covered over the last 6 months. Big drop. Big % of scripts beginning to require Prior Auths. More rollouts from Express Scripts on plans that will be dropping over 1,000 NDCs. This is not an adjustment, this is beginning to be a slaughter. Next up is Optum RX in September. UHC sent letter to their patients a month ago. Wish it was an adjustment and they just simply started capping reimbursements. I certainly would like to continue this run. I will ride it out.

When a PBM is now seeing an RX come over with multiple NDCs they are automatically flagging it for prior auth or denial.


3, 2, 1... someone's going to say I'm all doom and gloom and I am just jealous I was not on the train. Dude, I have been on the train. I'm just giving first hand info of what is happening out there. I'm sure people can keep doing this and make some money.

PCAB will help some with customers wanting a credentialed pharmacy. But a local pharmacy that was PCAB accredited just lost their major contracts. PCAB doesn't protect you when it comes to how the PBMs evaluate whether you are compliant with how you do business (collecting copays, paying employees, billing etc..) PCAB only helps with credibility that the pharmacy is not a fly by night operation as many of these that popped up are overnight doing a major money grab in the market.

Really sucks in some regards because this stuff does work. But the dang manufacturers keep coming up with new bulk chemicals and loading them at high AWP which means they can be billed out for ungodly amounts. It is going to be a cat and mouse game with pharamcies trying to push through new formulas, new NDCs not on ESI's non-covered list. Eventually the game will catchup with them.

The more patients will not receive their compound, less likely docs are going to be to continue to prescribe it. And if your pharmacy is handing out that non-covered formula for a discounted cash price, lookout because that violates the 'usual and customary' clause of the pharmacy's contract.
 






Our pharmacy has seen a 42% drop in what is being covered over the last 6 months. Big drop. Big % of scripts beginning to require Prior Auths. More rollouts from Express Scripts on plans that will be dropping over 1,000 NDCs. This is not an adjustment, this is beginning to be a slaughter. Next up is Optum RX in September. UHC sent letter to their patients a month ago. Wish it was an adjustment and they just simply started capping reimbursements. I certainly would like to continue this run. I will ride it out.

When a PBM is now seeing an RX come over with multiple NDCs they are automatically flagging it for prior auth or denial.


3, 2, 1... someone's going to say I'm all doom and gloom and I am just jealous I was not on the train. Dude, I have been on the train. I'm just giving first hand info of what is happening out there. I'm sure people can keep doing this and make some money.

PCAB will help some with customers wanting a credentialed pharmacy. But a local pharmacy that was PCAB accredited just lost their major contracts. PCAB doesn't protect you when it comes to how the PBMs evaluate whether you are compliant with how you do business (collecting copays, paying employees, billing etc..) PCAB only helps with credibility that the pharmacy is not a fly by night operation as many of these that popped up are overnight doing a major money grab in the market.

Really sucks in some regards because this stuff does work. But the dang manufacturers keep coming up with new bulk chemicals and loading them at high AWP which means they can be billed out for ungodly amounts. It is going to be a cat and mouse game with pharamcies trying to push through new formulas, new NDCs not on ESI's non-covered list. Eventually the game will catchup with them.

The more patients will not receive their compound, less likely docs are going to be to continue to prescribe it. And if your pharmacy is handing out that non-covered formula for a discounted cash price, lookout because that violates the 'usual and customary' clause of the pharmacy's contract.

Great post, agree with everything you say. Many people made a killing and made millions doing so. Just ride this puppy as long as you can and save save save.
 






Landscape is definitely changing. Potentially becoming better for patients and providers that last. Space needs to become ethical and evidence based and then following legal compliance. I expect that we'll see similar contracts that we see in the device world; dual vendor contract type stuff. Payors will contract with specific pharmacies based on regional/national footprint, PCAB, audit, co-pay compliance, etc... and then contract at reduced pricing. The fly by nights and neighborhood pharmacies will go away and the remaining large compounders will make up in reduced ASPs with volume; not a model new to any of us. SO... if you're still interested in playing in this space, it'll still be viable but less players ultimately.. if you're not partnered with one of the larger compounders out there at least start looking so that you can shift with the times....
 






Great post, agree with everything you say. Many people made a killing and made millions doing so. Just ride this puppy as long as you can and save save save.

Absolutely!

This could be just a scare tactic by ESI, after all, July 15 date came and went and so far no change. Roughly a year ago, Tricare stated that they would no longer reimburse; due to various reasons, they're still covering..... be smart, get with a reputable pharmacy with good products and take advantage of the opportunity while it lasts. It may last a lot longer than any of these threads believe....
 






Are you sure about the last sentence. If you dont bill the insurer, and work directly with the patient, what contract are you violating. Also, usual and customary for something that the patients insurance denied may be a formulation that is just a very basic topical agent with different agents in it completely.....not sure, but a discounted cash price is done ALL THE TIME in medicine. The cash price that a physician or dentist offers is always lower than what Medicare or a commercial plan will reimburse. It is our system.


The more patients will not receive their compound, less likely docs are going to be to continue to prescribe it. And if your pharmacy is handing out that non-covered formula for a discounted cash price, lookout because that violates the 'usual and customary' clause of the pharmacy's contract.
 






Are you sure about the last sentence. If you dont bill the insurer, and work directly with the patient, what contract are you violating. Also, usual and customary for something that the patients insurance denied may be a formulation that is just a very basic topical agent with different agents in it completely.....not sure, but a discounted cash price is done ALL THE TIME in medicine. The cash price that a physician or dentist offers is always lower than what Medicare or a commercial plan will reimburse. It is our system.


You could have an alternate formula that you never bill the insurance. But if you bill formula X for $XXXX the PBMs are against you billing it for $XX to the patient. It's crazy that they tie their business to what you do with patients that are not in their network. It is in the 2014 ESI provider manual.

Either way this whole thing is under the microscope. We still see pharmacies out there waiving copays. Bogus studies and advertising on medreps that their doctor's can make $100 for any new script and $75 for refills... what the what??? Latest is pharmacy gathering patient data for a database with signature from the patients and paying doctor's offices to upload this data like $150 each patient. It is unbelievable the crap I see going on out there. Even had a physician tell me that the other pharmacy made his 'dad' the sales rep. Seriously. Unbelievable.

I think this crap is what someone ought to be going after. These are the things that leads to overutilization.
 






Agreed. It needs to be cleaned up. Anyone in this thread in California? It seems that lately the PBMs are turning down much more than they were only a few months ago. Is it consistent with the rest of the country or are we challenged a bit more in CA? Thank you for any insight.
 






Agreed. It needs to be cleaned up. Anyone in this thread in California? It seems that lately the PBMs are turning down much more than they were only a few months ago. Is it consistent with the rest of the country or are we challenged a bit more in CA? Thank you for any insight.

our pharmacy is in 21 states. Seen a change in coverage substantially since Jan/Feb. It is all over.
 






Nooo, it is not all over. Our Pharmacy has actually seen an increase in reimbursement % and $ since the beginning of the year. We were credentialed by ESI when they were "credentialing in January/Feb (or when they started this process). What a sham that was. Imagine, a PBM with no integrity. Who knows what they were trying to get at. Anyway, yes our pharmacy has a cash formulation which is unique from other formulations, and the major issue is our reps are so worried about what is going on in this industry, and the ESI announcement, that we have a bunch of Chicken Little mentality and are hesitant to go out and sell with true conviction. Instead of a couple hundred rx's, they are gettting half of that. In reality, our strong reps wee the situation for what it is, approvals and reimubursememts are up, the turnaround for rxs is back to being virtually instantaneous for most insurances we bill (the holdup is the patients talking to pharmacy via phone for eg), and there is significant money they are leaving on the table. There is undoubtedly gray area ahead, but the smart pharmacies will begin figure out a way to enter into contracts that make them millions and make the pbm's millions. The Middle Ground right now is huge due to manufacturers of API's setting the AWP so high. Artificially high. Trust me, some of the smart and Spohisticated pharmacies are well down this road altogether.

Bottom line-there will be a few winners once we are on the other side of the PBM/Insurance market reimbursement issues, sometime in 2015. The last men standing will do extremely well on volume. Easy volume with much of the competition our of the market either by Choice or by Mandate.

Ciao for Now.




our pharmacy is in 21 states. Seen a change in coverage substantially since Jan/Feb. It is all over.
 






My comment all over was meant that coverage has not been isolated to one state or region. Not that compounding is all over.

You my friend are an anomaly to say that coverage %'s and $ are increasing.
 






Absolutely AND Obviously.
It is an anomaly to say that coverage % and $$ are increasing.
I just typed lengthy reason why the above is occurring at our pharmacies, but realized it is useless and probably not wise to do so on a public board. Suffice it to say that there are ways to meet the requirements of PBM/Health Plans, etc. Data is coming out and building. Narcotics are increasingly scrutinized, and Docs need options.
I will say one more time.....smart pharmacies will make millions, pbms will make millions (they always do). The pricing structure of topicals is ridiculously high, and you can have a great business model at half or less of the current pricing model. I dont think topical pain creams are going away, so just who will be filling rxs 6 months from now???


My comment all over was meant that coverage has not been isolated to one state or region. Not that compounding is all over.

You my friend are an anomaly to say that coverage %'s and $ are increasing.
 






As an owner of a compounding pharmacy foe 14 years let me just say that pain creams may not be dead but it's definitely on life support. Quick question, if you could sell pain creams directly to the docs and have them sell to patients for cash (smaller quantities 30gm) for 100% mark up, would docs purchase? New revenue stream for docs.
 






As an owner of a compounding pharmacy foe 14 years let me just say that pain creams may not be dead but it's definitely on life support. Quick question, if you could sell pain creams directly to the docs and have them sell to patients for cash (smaller quantities 30gm) for 100% mark up, would docs purchase? New revenue stream for docs.

So are you going to switch from being a pharmacy to a manufacturer? And will the doctors have a license to dispense?

If I was a patient I would not want to buy pain creams from my doc whenever I could get something for my $10-$15 copay. Why would I go pay, $50, $75, $100 for a pain cream/snake oil from a doctor's office?

Understand you want to provide the doctors a revenue stream, but that is contingent on patients willing to fork over money out of pocket.

foe sho.