New Challenge for Nobel Reps

[Anonymous]

How long is this bickering going to go on???

Medical device reps in all other industries make double or triple what dental implant reps make. Implants are medical devices too. Put your energy towards higher salaries, benefits, bonuses and greater compensation in general!!

15 years ago implant sales reps made 200k minimum...

Couldn't agree more, but the market though bigger is somewhat diluted as well. Would like to make one comment. ImplantDirect's pricing for many of their components isn't exactly a bargain unless you compare their prices against some of the other companies. OK, the $125 for Legacy 1 fixtures is ridiculously low, but if I were Niznick I would package all the Legacy fixtures like the way he is offering Legacy 1 and sell a separate metal carrier in addition to the plastic one provided. Then expand some of the prosthetic offerings and use the clones mainly to get into Nobel, Straumann and Zimmer offices (I hear 3i is next) in order to eventually sell they a much better implant, namely Legacy 3. However, I see nothing wrong with Legacy 1 which for now at $125/fixture including a cover screw is one hell of a bargain.

And no, I don't work for ImplantDirect...............

 

[Anonymous]

Couldn't agree more, but the market though bigger is somewhat diluted as well. Would like to make one comment. ImplantDirect's pricing for many of their components isn't exactly a bargain unless you compare their prices against some of the other companies. OK, the $125 for Legacy 1 fixtures is ridiculously low, but if I were Niznick I would package all the Legacy fixtures like the way he is offering Legacy 1 and sell a separate metal carrier in addition to the plastic one provided. Then expand some of the prosthetic offerings and use the clones mainly to get into Nobel, Straumann and Zimmer offices (I hear 3i is next) in order to eventually sell they a much better implant, namely Legacy 3. However, I see nothing wrong with Legacy 1 which for now at $125/fixture including a cover screw is one hell of a bargain.

And no, I don't work for ImplantDirect...............

The Legacy1 also includes a 2mm healing collar and the implants have color coded platforms - all for $125. It comes in 3 diameters, in comparison to the Legacy3 at $175 in 6 diameters including a 3.2mmD implant. The Legacy3 for $50 more gives you the extra diameter options plus a titanium fixture-mount that is a transfer and a preparable abutment. Soon Implant Direct will launch the Legacy2 with a titanium fixture-mount transfer for $150, in 4 diameters with more aggressive threads. The fixture mounts are interchangeable so you can use the one that comes with the $175 implant with the $125 implant. What Niznick has done is create the perfect differentiation while maintaining common features of the same platform and drill sequence. I don't think he will be asking you for advice on implant design. And yes, I do work for ImplantDirect. Dr. Niznick gave the industry the Screw-Vent 23 years ago. It is not only still going strong at Zimmer, it is the bases for many of the implant designs sold by other companies today. Here is the Legacy2.

http://www.implantdirect.com/us/pop-out/Legacy2_824213_ImplantTour_HiQ.htm

 

[Anonymous]

The Legacy1 also includes a 2mm healing collar and the implants have color coded platforms - all for $125. It comes in 3 diameters, in comparison to the Legacy3 at $175 in 6 diameters including a 3.2mmD implant. The Legacy3 for $50 more gives you the extra diameter options plus a titanium fixture-mount that is a transfer and a preparable abutment. Soon Implant Direct will launch the Legacy2 with a titanium fixture-mount transfer for $150, in 4 diameters with more aggressive threads. The fixture mounts are interchangeable so you can use the one that comes with the $175 implant with the $125 implant. What Niznick has done is create the perfect differentiation while maintaining common features of the same platform and drill sequence. I don't think he will be asking you for advice on implant design. And yes, I do work for ImplantDirect. Dr. Niznick gave the industry the Screw-Vent 23 years ago. It is not only still going strong at Zimmer, it is the bases for many of the implant designs sold by other companies today. Here is the Legacy2.

http://www.implantdirect.com/us/pop-out/Legacy2_824213_ImplantTour_HiQ.htm

Jerry may not ask for advice but he got enough suggestions from several clinicians on the
Impantology List to come up with Legacy3. Legacy2 came first and was a knee jerk reaction to the Nobel Active while Legacy3 is in respnse to various suggestions to improve on Legacy1 which is a very good fixture to begin with. Yes, I know how the implants are packaged, diameters offered, etc., but only the Legacy1 packaging makes much sense since the transfers are not very good impression posts and in the case of Legacy3 the transfer can only be used as an abutment in a limited number of clinical situations. So since you ID guys are so value driven, why spend another $50 for something you are more than likely going to throw away? Plus with Legacy1 you avoid the hassle of removing the transfer at the time of surgery if I'm not mistakem.....................

Of course, working for ImplantDirect, your clinical knowledge is probably based on watching ID’s videos rather than actual clinical experience..................that and your comment shows you have worked for Jerry long enough to go out of your way to insult someone who made a very favorable comment regarding at least one of your implant lines.

 

[Anonymous]

Jerry may not ask for advice but he got enough suggestions from several clinicians on the
Impantology List to come up with Legacy3. Legacy2 came first and was a knee jerk reaction to the Nobel Active while Legacy3 is in respnse to various suggestions to improve on Legacy1 which is a very good fixture to begin with. Yes, I know how the implants are packaged, diameters offered, etc., but only the Legacy1 packaging makes much sense since the transfers are not very good impression posts and in the case of Legacy3 the transfer can only be used as an abutment in a limited number of clinical situations. So since you ID guys are so value driven, why spend another $50 for something you are more than likely going to throw away? Plus with Legacy1 you avoid the hassle of removing the transfer at the time of surgery if I'm not mistakem.....................

Of course, working for ImplantDirect, your clinical knowledge is probably based on watching ID’s videos rather than actual clinical experience..................that and your comment shows you have worked for Jerry long enough to go out of your way to insult someone who made a very favorable comment regarding at least one of your implant lines.

I assume that the Legacy 1, 2 and 3 were conceived to provide product differentiation with variations in threads, prices, diameters and prices. In real estate it is location, location location and in implants it is options options options.
But the issue of this string is not Implant Direct's products or its Health Canada recall of 7 implants (total number, not 7 types of implants.) These vials had cosmetic micro-cracks that did not leak. Nobel's implants and prosthetic components sold as sterile fail a basic leak test so what, when and if FDA, Health Canada and the EU Regulatory body will do about this mislabeling is the 24 dollar question. Or should I say the $2.4 billion dollar question because that is how much Nobel could lose in its stock value if these regulatory bodies follow their own rules and demand a recall.

 

[Anonymous]

I assume that the Legacy 1, 2 and 3 were conceived to provide product differentiation with variations in threads, prices, diameters and prices. In real estate it is location, location location and in implants it is options options options.
But the issue of this string is not Implant Direct's products or its Health Canada recall of 7 implants (total number, not 7 types of implants.) These vials had cosmetic micro-cracks that did not leak. Nobel's implants and prosthetic components sold as sterile fail a basic leak test so what, when and if FDA, Health Canada and the EU Regulatory body will do about this mislabeling is the 24 dollar question. Or should I say the $2.4 billion dollar question because that is how much Nobel could lose in its stock value if these regulatory bodies follow their own rules and demand a recall.

Considering that the number one player in the implant business is once again involved in a packaging/sterility issue you would have to assume the FDA is going to be very careful to make sure there is in fact a problem. Agree, if there is a issue it certainly will give Nobel's customers a reason to switch to either ID or another vendor. BTW, does anyone know if the NobelActive uses the same packaging? I remember when Astra implants were sold contained in a glass vial which was relatively foolproof as far as leakage.

 

[Anonymous]

No response so far from the FDA. I hate to even think that they might not respond at all to any of this. Regardless if Niznick and Nobel are in a mud-slinging contest this is a subject that needs to be put to rest. No reponse from the FDA would make them appear to have been bought by Nobel. I don't think they would risk that.

Who knows, my sales are doing fine and I don't work for either ID or Nobel. it is entertaining to read all of this back and forth between Niznick haters and those brainwashed by Nobel.

 

[Anonymous]

No response so far from the FDA. I hate to even think that they might not respond at all to any of this. Regardless if Niznick and Nobel are in a mud-slinging contest this is a subject that needs to be put to rest. No reponse from the FDA would make them appear to have been bought by Nobel. I don't think they would risk that.

Who knows, my sales are doing fine and I don't work for either ID or Nobel. it is entertaining to read all of this back and forth between Niznick haters and those brainwashed by Nobel.

Another moron posting garbage. A test paid for by Niznick after finding out that his packaging had cracks in it and calling it an independent study does not warrant government involvement.

Its painfully obvious he went and paid a bunch of $ to have this bullshit test done to have something to use for his own crappy packaging that has cracks in it.

 

[Anonymous]

Another moron posting garbage. A test paid for by Niznick after finding out that his packaging had cracks in it and calling it an independent study does not warrant government involvement.

Its painfully obvious he went and paid a bunch of $ to have this bullshit test done to have something to use for his own crappy packaging that has cracks in it.

Do you believe that Niznick thinks for a moment that the FDA will rely on his test and not require testing of multiple lots?
Nobel could spend the same bunch of $ and just eliminate all doubts.
Is there such a test? Do you see a problem here?

 

[Anonymous]

Do you believe that Niznick thinks for a moment that the FDA will rely on his test and not require testing of multiple lots?
Nobel could spend the same bunch of $ and just eliminate all doubts.
Is there such a test? Do you see a problem here?

Yes I see a problem. If Nobel does a test then it validates and dignifies Niznicks BS test. I am sure the FDA has received an official complaint from Niznick with his paid for test but I highly doubt they are coming here to Cafepharma to appease a couple of nuts who think because its being talked about here makes it newsworthy.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes I see a problem. If Nobel does a test then it validates and dignifies Niznicks BS test. I am sure the FDA has received an official complaint from Niznick with his paid for test but I highly doubt they are coming here to Cafepharma to appease a couple of nuts who think because its being talked about here makes it newsworthy.

They would not come to appease cafepharma bloggers.
What they would do, is repeat the test and give the results to us to blast it all over the world and that is how it would make it to here.
That did not happen and that could be a good indicator of the magnitude of the problem. If they are not following up with the test because of being concerned with dignifying Niznick and then found to have a problem, can you imagine any excuse that the responsible person could come up with to keep their position? I can not.

 

[Anonymous]

They would not come to appease cafepharma bloggers.
What they would do, is repeat the test and give the results to us to blast it all over the world and that is how it would make it to here.
That did not happen and that could be a good indicator of the magnitude of the problem. If they are not following up with the test because of being concerned with dignifying Niznick and then found to have a problem, can you imagine any excuse that the responsible person could come up with to keep their position? I can not.

The word is getting out that a stock analyst purchased Nobel and Implant Direct implants and duplicated the test posted on Niznick's website. He confirmed getting exactly the same results with three Nobel Implants failing a dye leak test. Nobel has never denied that it failed such a test nor has it produced any other test to counter this very basic test for seal integrity. It should be obvious by now that Nobel got caught with their pants down and have no good response other than "Trust us...we are Nobel." This didn't stop the FDA from barring imporation of their products in the early 1990's for about 6 months for quality viaolations, nor has it stopped the FDA from issuing about 10 recalls on Nobel products over the last decade. The Implant Direct recall of 7 implants in Canada with micro-cracks that did not leak just highlights how ludicrous it would be if Health Canada and FDA did not issue a recalll on Nobel's products where they all lack sterility.

 

[Anonymous]

Another moron posting garbage. A test paid for by Niznick after finding out that his packaging had cracks in it and calling it an independent study does not warrant government involvement.

Its painfully obvious he went and paid a bunch of $ to have this bullshit test done to have something to use for his own crappy packaging that has cracks in it.

Be assured that a test produced by an FDA certified lab reporting a lack of sterile seal on medical devises intented for human implantation published on the web, as Niznick has done, warrents governmnet involvement, regardless who paid for the test. When the label says "sterile" and the test says "leaking", the FDA might as well close up shop if they are not taking this seriously. Niznick's packaging prior August 2007 had microcracks on about 1% of the packages and even though he showed they did not leak, he was still required to do a recall. Nobel made this an issue by hiring a former Niznick employee who then went to the Health Canada to disclose the two year old issue that had already been resolved with new packaging - and still he had to recall the cracked vials, only 7 of which were still in use. Contrast this with a million packages a year sold by Nobel that lack a seal needed to assure sterility, and you will see that this is not a problem Nobel is going to walk away from unhurt. The real question is what will the FDA do and can Nobel Survive a massive recall, being out of the market for months while it validates new packaging, and how will it handle the class action lawsuits that will follow?

 

[Anonymous]

The word is getting out that a stock analyst purchased Nobel and Implant Direct implants and duplicated the test posted on Niznick's website. He confirmed getting exactly the same results with three Nobel Implants failing a dye leak test. Nobel has never denied that it failed such a test nor has it produced any other test to counter this very basic test for seal integrity. It should be obvious by now that Nobel got caught with their pants down and have no good response other than "Trust us...we are Nobel." This didn't stop the FDA from barring imporation of their products in the early 1990's for about 6 months for quality viaolations, nor has it stopped the FDA from issuing about 10 recalls on Nobel products over the last decade. The Implant Direct recall of 7 implants in Canada with micro-cracks that did not leak just highlights how ludicrous it would be if Health Canada and FDA did not issue a recalll on Nobel's products where they all lack sterility.

Can anyone give me the stock symbol?

 

[Anonymous]

The word is getting out that a stock analyst purchased Nobel and Implant Direct implants and duplicated the test posted on Niznick's website. He confirmed getting exactly the same results with three Nobel Implants failing a dye leak test. Nobel has never denied that it failed such a test nor has it produced any other test to counter this very basic test for seal integrity. It should be obvious by now that Nobel got caught with their pants down and have no good response other than "Trust us...we are Nobel." This didn't stop the FDA from barring imporation of their products in the early 1990's for about 6 months for quality viaolations, nor has it stopped the FDA from issuing about 10 recalls on Nobel products over the last decade. The Implant Direct recall of 7 implants in Canada with micro-cracks that did not leak just highlights how ludicrous it would be if Health Canada and FDA did not issue a recalll on Nobel's products where they all lack sterility.

Probably the same ML guy Jery seems to have in his pocket. No doubt Jerry paid for this test as well, but does that matter. Don't see how this can possibly go away. Anyone shorting NBHGF ? ? ?

 

[Anonymous]

Probably the same ML guy Jery seems to have in his pocket. No doubt Jerry paid for this test as well, but does that matter. Don't see how this can possibly go away. Anyone shorting NBHGF ? ? ?

Yeah right, because an investment company dealing with numbers with so many digits that most of us have never seen other than in math class is concerned with paying a few hundred bucks for their own test.
The issue here is clearly not who paid for the test but what happens to billions in market cap.

Stock is not affected today

http://corporate.nobelbiocare.com/en/investors/

 

[Anonymous]

The word is getting out that a stock analyst purchased Nobel and Implant Direct implants and duplicated the test posted on Niznick's website. He confirmed getting exactly the same results with three Nobel Implants failing a dye leak test. Nobel has never denied that it failed such a test nor has it produced any other test to counter this very basic test for seal integrity. It should be obvious by now that Nobel got caught with their pants down and have no good response other than "Trust us...we are Nobel." This didn't stop the FDA from barring imporation of their products in the early 1990's for about 6 months for quality viaolations, nor has it stopped the FDA from issuing about 10 recalls on Nobel products over the last decade. The Implant Direct recall of 7 implants in Canada with micro-cracks that did not leak just highlights how ludicrous it would be if Health Canada and FDA did not issue a recalll on Nobel's products where they all lack sterility.

this thing may be gaining momentum
how will that affect the rest of the market?
I will ask my home office for our tests and hope to get them to show to my docs before things get ugly

 

[Anonymous]

They would not come to appease cafepharma bloggers.
What they would do, is repeat the test and give the results to us to blast it all over the world and that is how it would make it to here.
That did not happen and that could be a good indicator of the magnitude of the problem. If they are not following up with the test because of being concerned with dignifying Niznick and then found to have a problem, can you imagine any excuse that the responsible person could come up with to keep their position? I can not.

what was that about the responsible persons keeping their positions?

 

[Anonymous]

Another moron posting garbage. A test paid for by Niznick after finding out that his packaging had cracks in it and calling it an independent study does not warrant government involvement.

Its painfully obvious he went and paid a bunch of $ to have this bullshit test done to have something to use for his own crappy packaging that has cracks in it.

blahh, blahh blahhh, mosher said "trust me" now gone, blah blah Niznick still having a good time, blah blah no Pulitzer yet but more to come....blahhh, still leaky vials......

 

[Anonymous]

this thing may be gaining momentum
how will that affect the rest of the market?
I will ask my home office for our tests and hope to get them to show to my docs before things get ugly

Too late.... things have already gotten ugly. Analysts have been asking Nobel for tests to confirm that their sterile vials do not leak for over two weeks and none have been produced. Today an analyst for www.offwallstreet.com published a report where he had duplicated Niznick's dye leak test on Nobel implants, and go the same failed results as Niznick reported on his website. This analyst laid out the rational for a possible FDA Recall. If he can figure it out, so can the FDA. If Nobel had any proof that their vials do not leak, don't you think they would have produced them by now? Don't you think that Mosher would have produced them when he sent his letter to Nobel's accounts trying to reassure them? Doesn't his firing and the demotion of the company's global COO tell you what is really going on - Niznick was right and Nobel is going to sink like a leaky boat ... pardon the pun. Bringing Ryan in does add some common sense to the organization but it is too little too late. The FDA can not ignore the mounting public awareness and concern that Nobel has been selling products for years that are falsely labeled as being sterile with a 5 year shelf-life when they may have had a 5 minute shelf life with regard to maintainance of a sealed sterile environment. No need for Nobel salespoeple if they have nothing to sell for months, which is how long it will take them to re-design and validate new packaging. If Nobel had any business ethics it would have issued a voluntary recall of its products when Niznick first pointed out to them that their vials lacked a sterile seal. Implant Direct voluntarily recalled products that it sold over 2 years ago with micro-cracks even though they still maintained a sterile seal. Whether this was business ethics or just business smarts, I do not know, but Mosher will be asking himself for many years whether taking on Niznick in a pissing contest was really a smart thing to do.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah right, because an investment company dealing with numbers with so many digits that most of us have never seen other than in math class is concerned with paying a few hundred bucks for their own test.
The issue here is clearly not who paid for the test but what happens to billions in market cap.

Stock is not affected today

http://corporate.nobelbiocare.com/en/investors/

let's see what happens tomorrow